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UberSquid
9-Jan-2012, 12:44
Recently a Graphlex Speed Graphic came into my possession. I won it on eBay for the sum of only $61! The lens is not the original, it's from a Polaroid 110 so the scale is way off. I have a 135mm in a Copal shutter that I'm thinking of throwing in instead but since I don't need a lot of movement from this camera I may just leave the Polaroid for now. I intend to use the Graphlex mostly for backpacking trips where it's not practical to carry a full mono-rail setup. I figure the limited front movement will do for the landscape and nature photography I want to do.

Now here comes the question. It's not in the best of shape. The leatherette is cracked and a few small spots are missing. It's coming unglued in several places and in general looks pretty shabby. The rangefinder doesn't and the viewfinder has seen better days. The metal is all sound, it just looks ugly. Normally every camera that comes into my possession I either keep and use as is or go through and do a full restoration on. With this one I'm tempted to strip off the view and range finder, strip the leatherette, repaint and polish the metal then recover it with griptac from:

http://cameraleather.com/colors/griptac.htm

Is this sacrilege? Will I be destroying something that should be saved and preserved or would modifying this camera into the working shooter that I want and putting it into service be paying honor to it by breathing new life into a camera that was destined to rot?

What do you think?

Kirk Gittings
9-Jan-2012, 12:49
Its not like its a rare camera. There were zillions of these made. Basically its just another hammer. Make it useable and nice looking but I wouldn't worry about preserving it for posterity.

John Kasaian
9-Jan-2012, 12:55
Use it.
Nothing you're suggesting is irreversable if perchance someday that becomes tha last speeder in the world and the Smithsonian wants to put it back together.

E. von Hoegh
9-Jan-2012, 13:14
It sounds like there isn't much original finish to lose. I say go for it, give it an overhaul and turn it into something you'll enjoy using all the more because YOU worked on it.

Ari
9-Jan-2012, 13:28
A real sacrilege would be writing "Zeppelin rocks!" on the Ark of the Covenant.
Since you're not proposing that, I say go for it!

E. von Hoegh
9-Jan-2012, 13:36
A real sacrilege would be writing "Zeppelin rocks!" on the Ark of the Covenant.
Since you're not proposing that, I say go for it!

Nowhere near as bad as the heretic who put a 302 Ford engine in an E type Jag. That warranted being impaled on an old driveshaft. JMHO;)

UberSquid
9-Jan-2012, 13:57
One correction, it's a Crown Graphic not a Speed. I figure that doesn't really change the outcome very much though. I'd pretty much made up my mind that I was going to rip into this thing, I just wanted to get some feedback that I wasn't doing something horrible. I've been restoring cameras for several years now but I just this past week started into large format and this is going to be the first one I've ever worked on. You wouldn't believe some of the things people have sent me, it makes me sick at times seeing the hacked up classics that could have been lovingly restored but instead were painted, abused and tortured to an early death!

I believe my motives for this camera are pure so the mods I'll be making will give it an exciting new life. I'm going to proceed with a clear conscience. I may even document the whole process for posterity. (Making it into a backpack field camera is a whole lot better than the sin of putting it on a shelf in my opinion!)

UberSquid
9-Jan-2012, 13:58
Nowhere near as bad as the heretic who put a 302 Ford engine in an E type Jag. That warranted being impaled on an old driveshaft. JMHO;)


I would never put a 302 in an E Type! I'd go for a 429!

E. von Hoegh
9-Jan-2012, 14:08
I would never put a 302 in an E Type! I'd go for a 429!

They're warming up the lowest circle of hell just for you. You do know it's filled with cuckoo clocks, right?:D

Steve Smith
9-Jan-2012, 14:12
I just stripped mine off, sanded it and varnished it.




Steve.

Jim Jones
9-Jan-2012, 14:47
The Crown is a useful camera for backpacking, especially if you aren't concerned with it looking like new. The front standard can be reversed to give more convenient front tilt, although many Polaroid and 135mm lenses don't have enough coverage for anything but a drop-bed front tilt. If the rangefinder and tubular viewfinder aren't functional, take them off. If the leather covering is scruffy, good! you won't have to worry about making it worse in the field. Some pristine Graphics look fine in a display case. Others have earned the right to keep on working, and work they do! I have Graphics that have been altered for specific uses. They wouldn't have lit a gleam in a collector's eye when I got them, and a collector would be appalled at the way they look now. It's better to display the photographs a camera makes than merely the camera itself.

Mike Anderson
9-Jan-2012, 15:14
I recovered my Nikon F2 with gray Griptac so I'm all for sacrilege. And I like those Crown Graphics stripped to the wood.

Robbie Shymanski
9-Jan-2012, 15:15
Unless it is pristine and you are looking to play a press photographer in some LARPing scenario, strip it down, put some tape on the loose bits and make some pitchers! The tool is less important than the result.

Ivan J. Eberle
9-Jan-2012, 21:25
The added weight of a working RF is negligible, and greatly eases using the camera handheld and or with a 120 roll holder. I'd fix it if all the parts are there.

Greg Bliss
10-Jan-2012, 05:08
I have alway wanted to refinish a crown to its basic wood with a dark stain and furniture oil rubbed in well. I have seen a few and very impressed with the looks.
It may not change the way it functions but it will get more attention and make you feel better using it.
Good luck and post pictures when done.

jp
10-Jan-2012, 06:47
I would never put a 302 in an E Type! I'd go for a 429!

I don't think a 429 would fit with a normal front frame and bonnet without messing with the body that Enzo said was the most beautiful car ever made. Changing the engine is sacrilege.

Go ahead and do anything to the crown graphic. It's as common as a ford focus.

UberSquid
10-Jan-2012, 07:50
I don't think a 429 would fit with a normal front frame and bonnet without messing with the body that Enzo said was the most beautiful car ever made. Changing the engine is sacrilege.

Go ahead and do anything to the crown graphic. It's as common as a ford focus.

I have a ford focus that I'm prepping for autocross as we speak. Unfortunately the factory fuel pump is awful and the rear suspension needs a lot of attention but I digress.

I played with the rangefinder last night. I can't decide if I want to keep it or not. I played with focusing the camera just using the ground glass and I found it just as easy to do it that way as to try squinting through the rangefinder. (Not to mention that recalibrating it for every lens would be a pain in the ass!) I'm leaning toward getting rid of it simply because it sticks out and for a backpack camera I don't want anything sticking out that can snag and catch.

I have a Polaroid 180 that I've converted for 4x5 that I can use for hand held. It's already calibrated for a 121 lens and I've upgraded the glass on the rangefinder so it's nice and contrasty if I ever decide that I need to do hand held large format street photography.

I'll strip the covering tonight to see what it looks like underneath and decide where to go from there.

Thanks for the input! I'll post pics.

E. von Hoegh
10-Jan-2012, 08:00
I don't think a 429 would fit with a normal front frame and bonnet without messing with the body that Enzo said was the most beautiful car ever made. Changing the engine is sacrilege.

Go ahead and do anything to the crown graphic. It's as common as a ford focus.

The 302 and engines of that block family were about the narrowest V8 made in this country. If a 429 would fit (probably too wide, as you said), then a 427 cammer would probably fit. Still heresy.;)

Louis Pacilla
10-Jan-2012, 09:32
Nowhere near as bad as the heretic who put a 302 Ford engine in an E type Jag. That warranted being impaled on an old driveshaft. JMHO;)

Yea Von.How dare they ruin that fine Ford engine with that crappy Jag body.:eek: :)

AgentX
10-Jan-2012, 09:47
Although I think Griptac is pretty cool stuff, I can imagine that the vast expanses of it on a Crown Graphic would make it awkward to take in and out of a bag, since it's pretty grabby stuff. And the point of the stuff is lost, in a way, on a camera you don't use in the hand.

I might choose plain leather, myself, or some other finish applied direct to the body. (One of the smoother spray-on truck bedliners?) The Griptac would give a nice armored feeling, though, despite any slight negatives to it.

goamules
10-Jan-2012, 09:54
I've seen a couple Graflex where the person took the time to polish all the metal fittings down to brass (a big chore), which then makes the camera look totally different. Then I'd sand and stain the wood (It's mahogany) with Potassium Dichromate and finish.

E. von Hoegh
10-Jan-2012, 10:17
Yea Von.How dare they ruin that fine Ford engine with that crappy Jag body.:eek: :)

Weel, the Ford did have one advantage. It was oil tight.;)

banjo
10-Jan-2012, 16:12
I have never done it to a Graflex BUT I have 23 Burke & James and
Busch Pressmsan C sand them and stain the wood
I call it my little Naked Busch the burke & james don't as good

UberSquid
11-Jan-2012, 07:04
tearing further into the camera last night I realized that the Crown was talking to me and made all the decisions for me!

The reason I couldn't get the rangefinder to work was it was missing a piece so off it came. The viewfinder was so pitted that there was no restoring the optics so off it came. The original handle was replaced by a cheesy rainbow nylon strap so off it came along with the hardware. I pulled the back off and cleaned and cleaned and cleaned some more. Once it was back together I played with it some more to try and decide where this project will go next. Right now I have a tattered leather covered box. I'm actually thinking of doing away with the wood box and making a new one but then I may cut dowels to plug the holes. I also haven't decided if I'll refinish the wood or recover it. If I recover then it will be no big deal, a bit of wood putty to make the surface smooth and we are good. I've given up on the griptac idea.

Thank you all for your input. I'm liking this camera more all the time. Hopefully I'll get to go out this weekend and shoot with it a little bit!

Dan Fromm
11-Jan-2012, 07:08
Um, will tinkering with cosmetics make it work better?

unixrevolution
11-Jan-2012, 07:26
They're warming up the lowest circle of hell just for you. You do know it's filled with cuckoo clocks, right?:D

Surely the lowest circle of hell is for people who swap Chevy 350/Turbo 400 drivetrains into things. At least there's a tenuous link between Ford and Jaguar, and the Jag will start in cold weather with the Ford lump in there :D

For years, I've been pissed off about people with no imagination swapping chevy engines into Fords, and not just Model A's...I've seen it done with Rancheros, Torinos, Shoeboxes and even Galaxies and Thunderbirds. The worst offender was a big-block-chevy-engined custom 1932 Ford wagon with a big, airbrushed painting on the back, stating, "80 years of the Ford V8" with a huge Ford V8 logo behind it.

It's like people spend so much time and effort on these beautiful interiors and bodywork, but when it comes time to make a simple decision about Powertrain, rather than be the slightest bit creative they suddenly come over with the IQ of a deck chair.

Wait, this isn't a car forum?

As for the Speeder, if it was pristine I'd say don't touch it, because I love Large Format rangefinders. But as it is...Give her new life. She'd rather be out shooting photos no matter how it works out, and she'd probably be thankful for the new clothes and weight loss anyway :)

EDIT: And it looks as though you have done! I would love to see pictures of the finished product.

jayabbas
11-Jan-2012, 07:44
I say, "Make it yours". After all your only renting it until you reach the lowest circle of hell.

Scott Davis
11-Jan-2012, 07:48
It depends on which series Jag you're swapping the engine into - are you talking a Series I or a Series III? The Series III E-type had that massive bloated pig of a v-12. If they could fit the 5.3 liter V-12 with its four side-draft carbs in that engine bay, you can certainly squeeze in a big block Ford or Chevy with a nice overhead 4 bbl or dual quads if you're really sick. And authenticity aside, you'd be doing whoever owned the car a huge favor. That V12 was nothing but trouble.

E. von Hoegh
11-Jan-2012, 08:12
It depends on which series Jag you're swapping the engine into - are you talking a Series I or a Series III? The Series III E-type had that massive bloated pig of a v-12. If they could fit the 5.3 liter V-12 with its four side-draft carbs in that engine bay, you can certainly squeeze in a big block Ford or Chevy with a nice overhead 4 bbl or dual quads if you're really sick. And authenticity aside, you'd be doing whoever owned the car a huge favor. That V12 was nothing but trouble.

The sixes had more than a few surprises for the unwary. Like the valve lash adjustment - shims under the cam followers. And the only way to deal with the oil leaks was to pour fresh oil into the sump. And the Lucas electrics ........

The 12 was a 60 degree engine, and took up all the room in the engine bay. A big block - 90 degrees - wouldn't fit without drilling and blasting. The big block would be taller as well.

E. von Hoegh
11-Jan-2012, 08:14
Um, will tinkering with cosmetics make it work better?

Of course. Don't chrome rocker covers make a car go faster?

E. von Hoegh
11-Jan-2012, 08:28
Surely the lowest circle of hell is for people who swap Chevy 350/Turbo 400 drivetrains into things.

Although I like the 283 and 327 small blocks, the 350 is an annoying engine. Unfortunate connecting rod geometry and a grossly oversquare bore/stroke ratio make it about as efficient as Washington. They're cheap, which is why the sheeple and knuckle draggers like them.

Tim Meisburger
11-Jan-2012, 09:48
Mopar...

Scott Walker
11-Jan-2012, 09:59
And authenticity aside, you'd be doing whoever owned the car a huge favor. That V12 was nothing but trouble.

:eek: But so true :(

E. von Hoegh
11-Jan-2012, 10:00
Mopar...

Uh huh!:)

UberSquid
11-Jan-2012, 10:57
Um, will tinkering with cosmetics make it work better?

cosmetics are just the first round. I restore a lot of cameras so I was wary of tearing this one apart to make it into something else. Removing the rangefinder and the other lumps on the outside was the first step. Next step will be to modify it for front swing and possibly more travel. I'm measuring and trying to decide if I want to put some back movements in it at the same time. It's missing enough parts that it wouldn't ever be a collector so I'm using it as the base for a custom at this point.

UberSquid
11-Jan-2012, 10:57
Of course. Don't chrome rocker covers make a car go faster?

Chrome rocker covers don't make it go any faster but fake carbon fiber trim sure does! :cool:

DrTang
11-Jan-2012, 11:28
Surely the lowest circle of hell is for people who swap Chevy 350/Turbo 400 drivetrains into things.


yeah well


I'm pretty happy with the 350/400 sitting in my Studebaker Lark

now..if I break down in some backwater..I can walk into any parts store and presto - off the shelf parts

also..there is plenty of ways to mod it out and a pile of aftermarket parts..unlike the stude inline 6 that was in there previously

E. von Hoegh
11-Jan-2012, 13:22
http://www.cliffordperformance.net/

Aftermarket parts for a six.

DrTang
11-Jan-2012, 13:51
http://www.cliffordperformance.net/

Aftermarket parts for a six.

been there when I was considering a 63 nova.. but a stude six would be more problematic.. anyway..I bought the car set up this way and am happy it was

jp
11-Jan-2012, 14:19
The th350/400 is a rugged proven transmission. Perhaps the nicest of old-fashioned automatics before they got all computerized and zillions of gears for efficiency. I suspect some people use a chevy motor just because it's meant to go in that motor/transmission combination. I used to have a Jaguar XJS which has a three speed turbohydromatic transmission on it's fuel injected v12 and it was a good simple automatic, but I generally prefer manual transmission cars. So I sold it and got a 6-cyl E-type.

To "lump" a straight-6 manual transmission E-type with a v8 anything is sacrilege. If you're worried about getting parts in backwater towns, that's not the right car choice for you. If the car has non-electrical problems, it means it's neglected. Performance and reliability can be restored by repairing carburettors, replacing/upgrading them in extreme cases, and other basic tuneup items.

jayabbas
11-Jan-2012, 17:02
Mopar...

Oh Yeah -- The only car, er truck for me is a Mopar.

Gary Sommer
12-Jan-2012, 09:06
Did someone say Mopar?

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/gary2881/My440s.jpg

Short wide + 440, '64 Polara + 440 So much fun!!

UberSquid
16-Jan-2012, 12:20
Thanks again to everyone that chimed in on this thread. I've enjoyed it a lot even though we wandered a bit... :)

I've not had time to do anything to the crown since removing the range and viewfinder. Mostly because I've been too busy using it! It has become my "truck cam" going everywhere with me in a small day pack with two dozen film holders. I've gotten to play with it a lot and I've run through quite a bit of x-ray film in the process. I even took it with me on our last fishing outing! I may be one of the very few people who carry a 4x5 for snapshots while out fishing but it's been a blast not to mention the look on my friends faces the first time I said "Let me get a picture of that before you throw it back" and reached into my pack. They are used to me carrying weird old cameras but weren't ready for this! :D

unixrevolution
18-Jan-2012, 14:32
yeah well


I'm pretty happy with the 350/400 sitting in my Studebaker Lark

now..if I break down in some backwater..I can walk into any parts store and presto - off the shelf parts

also..there is plenty of ways to mod it out and a pile of aftermarket parts..unlike the stude inline 6 that was in there previously

Of course if it wasn't a Chevy engine it probably wouldn't break down :cool:

Seriously though, It's just uncreative. If you bought the car that way and really like driving it, thats what matters. It's made to be driven, and if it gets driven more with a Chevy 8 than a Studie 6, that's fine.

I just don't like when people put a 350/TH400 in a super-high-end street rod or musclecar, ripping out a 4 speed in the process, and think they're all clever for doing it that way.

Kuzano
19-Jan-2012, 00:43
Nowhere near as bad as the heretic who put a 302 Ford engine in an E type Jag. That warranted being impaled on an old driveshaft. JMHO;)

And yet Rover and a couple of other companies bought small Aluminum V8 engines from General Motors... Pontiac or Buick aluminum block...(218 cu inches I believe) and put them in their cars rolling stock off the assembly lines. Hmmm!:D

And my two Ford 302 conversions were a SBF 302 in a MKII Midget, and a SBF 302 in a 1983 BMW 633i. Major improvement on reliability and performance in both cars.

"Hack" the camera. You'll never seriously tap the vast inventory of them in the market place. If the camera is near stock, I would not modify it, but I prefer to buy camera's sold primarily as parts or repair cameras, and then have my way with them. Pretty much the way I used to date.;)

In fact, here is a link to a modified Crown Graphic which I find very attractive. Little bit of teak and some manual labor. Sweeeet!!

http://home.online.no/~gjon/crown99.htm

Then there is this link to a number of links for DIY camera builders:

http://home.online.no/~gjon/camerabuilders.htm

Tons of good ideas on many of the sites linked here.

Go for it!

jongrep
17-Oct-2015, 23:36
And yet Rover and a couple of other companies bought small Aluminum V8 engines from General Motors... Pontiac or Buick aluminum block...(218 cu inches I believe) and put them in their cars rolling stock off the assembly lines. Hmmm!:D

And my two Ford 302 conversions were a SBF 302 in a MKII Midget, and a SBF 302 in a 1983 BMW 633i. Major improvement on reliability and performance in both cars.

"Hack" the camera. You'll never seriously tap the vast inventory of them in the market place. If the camera is near stock, I would not modify it, but I prefer to buy camera's sold primarily as parts or repair cameras, and then have my way with them. Pretty much the way I used to date.;)

In fact, here is a link to a modified Crown Graphic which I find very attractive. Little bit of teak and some manual labor. Sweeeet!!

http://home.online.no/~gjon/crown99.htm

Then there is this link to a number of links for DIY camera builders:

http://home.online.no/~gjon/camerabuilders.htm

Tons of good ideas on many of the sites linked here.

Go for it!

New URL:

http://jongrepstad.com/building-a-large-format-camera/refurbishing-a-crown-graphic-camera/

My camera lders page will be available by the end of October.

Jon Grepstad
http://jongrepstad.com/

Drew Bedo
18-Oct-2015, 19:18
The E-Type should have had a V-8 to begin with. Look at what Shelby did with the AC Cobra!

Nothing beats displacement.

Two23
19-Oct-2015, 21:25
After thinking it over very carefully, I give you my permission.


Kent in SD

jbenedict
21-Oct-2015, 06:36
I would never put a 302 in an E Type! I'd go for a 429!

That might be the sacrilege. A 302 goes in with no modification of the Jaguar frame save for the mounts which go on the original mounts with bolts. A 429 needs to have everything cut up to make it fit. Series III do the same with SBC in place of the V12. The V12 is cool and everything but it is a pain in the ass. www.johncars.com

jbenedict
21-Oct-2015, 06:43
And yet Rover and a couple of other companies bought small Aluminum V8 engines from General Motors... Pontiac or Buick aluminum block...(218 cu inches I believe) and put them in their cars rolling stock off the assembly lines. Hmmm!:D

The tooling was mouldering in a warehouse and GM sold it to Rover who make there own engines with it. They have modified and improved a lot of the details.


And my two Ford 302 conversions were a SBF 302 in a MKII Midget, and a SBF 302 in a 1983 BMW 633i. Major improvement on reliability and performance in both cars.

Monster engines in a Spridget are funny looking. Like a weightlifter who only does arm work and ignore the legs. Big arms, skinny little legs.

jbenedict
21-Oct-2015, 06:46
Seriously though, It's just uncreative. If you bought the car that way and really like driving it, thats what matters. It's made to be driven, and if it gets driven more with a Chevy 8 than a Studie 6, that's fine

There is a perfectly good, high powered Studebaker 289 V-8. Tons of them are available and all parts are available. Any part is only a UPS/FedEx Overnight away.

jbenedict
21-Oct-2015, 06:48
The E-Type should have had a V-8 to begin with.

Don't understand the dislike for the I-6 in the Series I and II. They can make as much power as any V-8 which will properly fit and with no carburetors sticking through the hood. The V-12 in the Series III was a nightmare.