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View Full Version : I want a wireless cable release! Who can build one?



vinny
8-Jan-2012, 17:39
I've brought this up more than once in the past but never asked anyone to build it. There are enough smart folks here who can rig all sorts of things with electronics and cameras. Here's what I need:
1. A shutter release that terminates with cable release threads on the end of a 16" flexible wand so it can connect to most any mechanical camera AND fire copal shutters while attached to something like the hot shoe socket.

2. It must be wireless up to 100ft, it could use an existing electronic sender/reciever (like a remote household switch) or from scratch.

3. The ability to set times from 1 second to 30 seconds and also function with a copal shutter's T mode (hit button once for open, once for closed).

4. will function in cold weather, below freezing if need be.

I know there are mechanical gadgets that come up on ebay which attach to your cable release or screw directly into the shutter. I'm not interested in those, at all.

Who's gonna build me one and how much will it cost?

jp
8-Jan-2012, 17:49
cable release hooked to a
12v automotive doorlocking Solenoid $10 (at a junkyard) hooked to a
12v relay $10 (optional) hooked to a
Packet Flux SiteMonitor Base Unit II $95 (web interfaced power controller) hooked to a
normal home wifi AP $35
on a 12v switching power supply or gel cell battery ($25)

There are many web-controllable relay products on ebay if you're after something a little more integratable than the packetflux product.

remote:
Wifi equipped android or apple tablet/pda of choice, as long as it has a web browser, or laptop. You'll be as high tech as a Nikon D4.

vinny
8-Jan-2012, 18:08
great, let me know when it's done. iphone control would be great, good idea.

Just to be clear, I'm not interested in building it myself. I'm quite handy but would rather spend my time doing other things.

Ivan J. Eberle
8-Jan-2012, 18:17
The fastest response time (and quickest build) will probably be to use an existing wireless flash trigger and add a solenoid circuit to that. I appreciate multi-purpose devices, and really like the YongNuo RF602, a very fast switching flash trigger which is good to at least 100 yards and costs something like $30 or so on eBay, and also is set up to work as an electric cable release with a provided cord. Now, if you had a Super Graphic with an integrated solenoid release, you could pretty easily wire it into the YongNuo and you'd be set. Otherwise, it's a matter of finding a solenoid and wiring in a battery for it on the output side of the Yong Nuo or other wireless device. I'd scrounge an old photo solenoid, not an automotive one as the potential vibration won't be such an unknown.

John Brady
8-Jan-2012, 19:57
In all seriousness, I would love to have one of these too. Now that we've increased the size of the market the cost should come down.


Whatever the device would turn out to be it would be nice if you could control the time on a bulb exposure with it.

www.timeandlight.com

vinny
8-Jan-2012, 20:17
Whatever the device would turn out to be it would be nice if you could control the time on a bulb exposure with it.

www.timeandlight.com[/QUOTE]

Exactly, that's part of my criteria. I think these would sell quite well, if they existed and were less than $100

Two23
8-Jan-2012, 21:41
I've been using CyberSyncs. I get 150 yards out of them, plus another 150 in relay mode. Using lithium AA batteries I've used these in temps down to -32F below zero with no problem. I routinely use them in temps in the -20 to 0 range with no issues. For bulb mode, I just hit the trigger manually.


Kent in SD

vinny
8-Jan-2012, 22:10
I've been using CyberSyncs. I get 150 yards out of them, plus another 150 in relay mode. Using lithium AA batteries I've used these in temps down to -32F below zero with no problem. I routinely use them in temps in the -20 to 0 range with no issues. For bulb mode, I just hit the trigger manually.


Kent in SD

Attached to what?
I don't get it. Please post a pic or a link to what you're using.

Two23
8-Jan-2012, 22:34
Attached to what?
I don't get it. Please post a pic or a link to what you're using.

I attach the CyberSync transmitter to either the hotshoe on my Nikon D300 camera, or to the PC sync post on the shutter of my large format lenses using a short sync cable. One end has the standard female PC connection, the other just has a micro plug that goes into the CyberSync. It's simple plug & play.

From FlashZebra.com

You need #0030 to connect transmitter to the Copal (or Compur) shutter post. Email Lon at FlashZebra and he'll fix you up:

http://www.flashzebra.com/wizardcables/index.shtml

You need CyberSync transmitter on the camera, CyberSync receiver (CRST) on the flash. The cable needed to connect CSRB to the flash depends on what flash you have. CyberSyncs come with those cables for flash (but not to connect to camera/shutter.)


Kent in SD

vinny
8-Jan-2012, 23:00
fyi, I'm not using strobes.

E. von Hoegh
9-Jan-2012, 07:56
Cheap radio control outfit, for an RC car, boat, or plane. Under $100 with servos, you only need 1 channel but you'll end up with two. Range, maybe half a mile.

vinny
9-Jan-2012, 14:24
I know that can be done with those parts, can you build it?
Listing random parts does me no good unless this thread goes unanswered for a month. I'd like to by something already put together, kinda like a camera that I don't wish to build.

BradS
9-Jan-2012, 15:32
....Who's gonna build me one and how much will it cost?


How much are you willing to pay for such a device?

vinny
9-Jan-2012, 18:11
How much are you willing to pay for such a device?

$100 if it's reliable and will last a more than your average rc car from toys r us.

Harold_4074
9-Jan-2012, 18:30
Having played with such mechanisms, I would suggest that your specifications also involve a guarantee of not damaging the shutter (a simple solenoid without a travel-distance adjustment and overtravel force relief could cause you to spend considerably more than $100 when it breaks the shutter) and actuation time (gentle mechanisms, especially if poorly made, tend also to be slow---this is really problematic for time or bulb exposures, and any time you are trying to "catch the moment"). The electronics are actually the easy part!

If you do use a wireless trigger, make sure that the inductive "kick" from a solenoid does not feed back into the wireless receiver. I have a setup that works with a cabled pushbutton, but when I tried to use a PocketWizard receiver, the "close shutter" solenoid (even with a snubber diode across it) re-triggers the PocketWizard. Sounds like the world's slowest sewing machine...

vinny
9-Jan-2012, 22:43
Harold, good idea regarding the adjustable travel distance. That would be necessary for different cameras but I'll mostly use in on copal shutters.

AndyJ
10-Jan-2012, 02:05
Cheap radio control outfit, for an RC car, boat, or plane. Under $100 with servos, you only need 1 channel but you'll end up with two. Range, maybe half a mile.
From an RC guy, just be careful using any RC channel, especially one reserved for air. Should be fine as long as you're not within a couple miles of an RC airfield (allows some buffer zone), but I'd personally steer away from 72 MHz, which is for aircraft. 75 MHz is a safer choice (I believe it is not legal for aircraft use, but please don't quote me on this!). The safest bet would be 2.4 GHz to essentially eliminate any potential interference, but that adds cost and complexity.

Good, hobby-grade servos ought to be a good bet, but as someone else mentioned, there's the issue of protecting your shutter. I'm not sure if there's any sort of mechanical interface readily available that will limit the amount of force the end of a pushrod could exert. You might try linearly actuated servos, but those are usually small, plastic worm gear driven, and might not hold up in rugged conditions. On the other hand, a small, inexpensive servo that will strip itself out instead of wrecking your shutter might not be a bad consideration.

Also, I'm just interested in where this thread goes, as I'm an engineering student.

E. von Hoegh
10-Jan-2012, 08:48
From an RC guy, just be careful using any RC channel, especially one reserved for air. Should be fine as long as you're not within a couple miles of an RC airfield (allows some buffer zone), but I'd personally steer away from 72 MHz, which is for aircraft. 75 MHz is a safer choice (I believe it is not legal for aircraft use, but please don't quote me on this!). The safest bet would be 2.4 GHz to essentially eliminate any potential interference, but that adds cost and complexity.

Good, hobby-grade servos ought to be a good bet, but as someone else mentioned, there's the issue of protecting your shutter. I'm not sure if there's any sort of mechanical interface readily available that will limit the amount of force the end of a pushrod could exert. You might try linearly actuated servos, but those are usually small, plastic worm gear driven, and might not hold up in rugged conditions. On the other hand, a small, inexpensive servo that will strip itself out instead of wrecking your shutter might not be a bad consideration.

Also, I'm just interested in where this thread goes, as I'm an engineering student.

You protect the shutter by interposing a coil spring in compression to limit the force applied, and arrranging a stop to limit travel. Simple as dirt.

Didn't some older RC outfits work on 11 meters and around 6 meters? I think some did.

ic-racer
10-Jan-2012, 08:58
I'm not sure if there's any sort of mechanical interface readily available that will limit the amount of force the end of a pushrod could exert. .

All most all "on-road" RC cars have a spring to protect the servo and throttle assembly. In fact during braking the throttle arm needs to go back farther than the idle stop screw would allow. In this picture the farther back pushrod goes to the throttle and is spring loaded. (The rod in the front goes to the brake and that is spring loaded also.)
http://events.redrc.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/evolvam3-5lr.jpg

D. Bryant
10-Jan-2012, 09:28
The fastest response time (and quickest build) will probably be to use an existing wireless flash trigger and add a solenoid circuit to that. I appreciate multi-purpose devices, and really like the YongNuo RF602, a very fast switching flash trigger which is good to at least 100 yards and costs something like $30 or so on eBay, and also is set up to work as an electric cable release with a provided cord. Now, if you had a Super Graphic with an integrated solenoid release, you could pretty easily wire it into the YongNuo and you'd be set. Otherwise, it's a matter of finding a solenoid and wiring in a battery for it on the output side of the Yong Nuo or other wireless device. I'd scrounge an old photo solenoid, not an automotive one as the potential vibration won't be such an unknown.

What Ivan said!

Harold_4074
10-Jan-2012, 10:18
The overtravel/trip point adjustments are easy, if you have the tools and skills, but then, so are most other mechanical tasks. Salvaging parts from an RC toy looks like far and away the best approach.

If memory serves, the Copals have a positive stop (the manual trip lever strikes the housing at the end of travel) but certainly not all shutters do, and I wouldn't take chances with the insides of, say, a Rollieflex, without checking first.

I built a solenoid-operated shutter release (complete with adjustements...) and it drove a Copal #3 just fine. But it wouldn't work with one of my Ilex #5s, apparently because the actuation speed was too high, and the inertia of parts inside the shutter caused the cable release pin to slip off of whatever it drives. It's a bit difficult to slow down a solenoid, so I went to a pneumatic cylinder. Fun to play with, but its a good thing I'm not trying to make a living at this stuff .

vinny
10-Jan-2012, 11:05
Well, it looks like no one is going to step up and build it for me. I guess i have to make the trip to toys r us, get an rc monster truck, let my kid play with it for a few days, then rip it apart.

E. von Hoegh
10-Jan-2012, 11:08
Well, it looks like no one is going to step up and build it for me. I guess i have to make the trip to toys r us, get an rc monster truck, let my kid play with it for a few days, then rip it apart.

The trouble is, I can't come near your $100 price ceiling. I'd have that or more in parts.

vinny
11-Jan-2012, 00:41
The trouble is, I can't come near your $100 price ceiling. I'd have that or more in parts.

now that I'm looking into making this myself, what strength servo should I get?
the rc ones are listed in grams? I don't know how to measure the force needed on my cable release/shutter to trip/hold it down. If I buy large rc truck and dismantle it to get a steering servo out, will that work?
I'm only considering this route because the remote would work with the servo and no additional electronics would be needed, just a battery attached to the servo/reciever pack.

Cor
11-Jan-2012, 02:51
Vinny,

I can be of no help, but I have read this thread with interest, there is always more to learn.

I am curious though, and if you do not mind asking; what do you want to photograph with that wireless cable release?

Most things on your web side do not move that much..;-)..

Best,

Cor

Zaphod
11-Jan-2012, 03:38
If you want an adjustable time Bulb feature there are radio based intervalometers available online. Ye Olde 433MHz ones are a little hit and miss, the newer 2.4GHz ones are better but will make the budget more of a challenge.

I have a lensboard with a solenoid sitting on it from a Speed Graphic, that should be easy enough to use provided a short initial delay doesn't bother you.

Not offering to build one... just more suggestions :D

Ed Kelsey
11-Jan-2012, 08:55
Get a Canon

E. von Hoegh
11-Jan-2012, 10:07
now that I'm looking into making this myself, what strength servo should I get?
the rc ones are listed in grams? I don't know how to measure the force needed on my cable release/shutter to trip/hold it down. If I buy large rc truck and dismantle it to get a steering servo out, will that work?
I'm only considering this route because the remote would work with the servo and no additional electronics would be needed, just a battery attached to the servo/reciever pack.

Press the cable release plunger on a scale to measure the force. Don't waste money on a truck, go to Tower Hobbies.

John Koehrer
11-Jan-2012, 12:17
You're going to want the RC bits and timer bits aren't you? RC bits right off the shelf is good.
Now you're a hundred feet further away but still don't have the timing function.

vinny
12-Jan-2012, 01:23
If you want an adjustable time Bulb feature there are radio based intervalometers available online. Ye Olde 433MHz ones are a little hit and miss, the newer 2.4GHz ones are better but will make the budget more of a challenge.

I have a lensboard with a solenoid sitting on it from a Speed Graphic, that should be easy enough to use provided a short initial delay doesn't bother you.

Not offering to build one... just more suggestions :D

Care to provide a link?
I can't find anything that isn't for dslr's.

Zaphod
14-Jan-2012, 03:27
Care to provide a link?
I can't find anything that isn't for dslr's.

What I was suggesting is buying an intervalometer for a dDLR and cutting the end off the cable so you could attach it to a solenoid.

E. von Hoegh
14-Jan-2012, 08:15
And what none of you are considering is how much power it takes to actuate a solenoid. Nor are you considering how long to apply said power. You're also ignoring the voltage spike that may appear when the power is removed fron the solenoid.

vinny
14-Jan-2012, 09:17
And what none of you are considering is how much power it takes to actuate a solenoid. Nor are you considering how long to apply said power. You're also ignoring the voltage spike that may appear when the power is removed fron the solenoid.

Actually, I have considered these things. That's why I've asked questions. I don't think the majority or responders read the previous posts but I can't force them to:)

I'm going to go with a rc servo. I've spoken with the guy at the hobby shop about it's power requirements and I think the whole thing will be quite doable using a two channel radio remote. I also have a graflex solenoid coming to try out as well.

E. von Hoegh
14-Jan-2012, 09:24
Actually, I have considered these things. That's why I've asked questions. I don't think the majority or responders read the previous posts but I can't force them to:)

I'm going to go with a rc servo. I've spoken with the guy at the hobby shop about it's power requirements and I think the whole thing will be quite doable using a two channel radio remote. I also have a graflex solenoid coming to try out as well.

Perhaps you have considered them, but the guys suggesting to wire a solenoid to an intervalometer or a flash trigger have not.

2 channel RC sets are cheap these days. I recall paying about 400 1977 dollars for an RC setup.

Ivan J. Eberle
14-Jan-2012, 12:06
Yes, I did consider the current draw. The Yongnuo RF602 has an optical isolator that handles the 1A 12VDC switching needs of a motor drive. A solenoid is similar.

E. von Hoegh
14-Jan-2012, 12:09
Yes, I did consider the current draw. The Yongnuo RF602 has an optical isolator that handles the 1A 12VDC switching needs of a motor drive. A solenoid is similar.

Depends on the solenoid. The Graphic solenoid was intended to work off the batteries in the flash , 3 or 4.5v. Unless you protect the solid state stuff, the inductive load of the solenoid may damage it.

Zaphod
15-Jan-2012, 04:22
Perhaps you have considered them, but the guys suggesting to wire a solenoid to an intervalometer or a flash trigger have not.


The big advantage of the intervalometer is its programmable in many ways including a setting for the length of time the current is turned on. If current draw etc is an issue it would be simple enough to have a suitable transistor or other switching device between the 2.

I'm pretty sure the RF602 does NOT have an opto isolator by the way. There have been discussions about it only handling 12V and the transistor being blown by old high voltage flashes, I even saw a diagram somewhere showing which transistor blows and how to replace it with something tougher.

The Cactus V4 and V5 radio triggers do have an opto isolator, and will handle up to 300V. No idea about current though...

Ivan J. Eberle
17-Jan-2012, 11:40
We're discussing the RF602 in the context of a solenoid, not an old or studio flash with a Hv transient. I'm reasonably sure it's got 12V worth of optical isolation.

rfesk
17-Jan-2012, 17:56
I have, as a "proof of concept," built a crude remote wireless cable release using a RC motor and controller from a kit airplane which was donated to me. It works.

What has held me up is that I haven't taken the time to fit the assembly in a small box.

rfesk
17-Jan-2012, 18:00
As to the solenoid from a Graflex- it has very little travel. For a cable release to be used with different lenses it needs to have a travel of at least 1/4 inch.

vinny
17-Jan-2012, 18:01
rfesk, can you post a pic or email me one through my website?
I'll likely go the same route as I don't know much about this solenoid voltage situation.
thanks

Jody_S
17-Jan-2012, 20:35
I've considered this, to set up a camera near a turkey vulture nest (long story). Bottom line: there was no advantage to using a LF camera to get the shot, and off-the-shelf equipment exists to bet better results with a dSLR. I did experiment with the Canon optical wireless transmitter from the 80s and an F1n/motor drive, that worked well enough (17mm lens, zone focus, auto exposure with flash-fill, 36 shots). And the basic electrics/electronics to rig something to a solenoid and a cable release are simple enough. I also tried with a wireless doorbell before the flash units were available on the 'bay.

Something you might want to consider: there's a seller on ebay with a bunch of 56mm f1.2 JML Optical lenses that is selling for cheap, with an electric shutter. The shutter opens with one pair of wires, closes with another. Shutter blades also serve as aperture, which is adjusted with a knob on the side of the assembly. The JML lens is useless, far as I can tell (I've never managed a decent shot of anything, I tried a couple of macro shots with just the rear element). But if you can fit say, a pair of Dagor elements into that shutter, you'd be set (looks like an approx 47mm M0.75 thread shutter). I don't think you could hit your $100 price limit, but you'd have a reliable unit that would work for decades for perhaps $200.

E. von Hoegh
18-Jan-2012, 08:40
We're discussing the RF602 in the context of a solenoid, not an old or studio flash with a Hv transient. I'm reasonably sure it's got 12V worth of optical isolation.

The solenoid can generate a voltage spike itself.

Steve Smith
18-Jan-2012, 08:41
The solenoid can generate a voltage spike itself.

Until you supress it.


Steev.

E. von Hoegh
18-Jan-2012, 08:44
That's my point. Could it damage whatever is used to control it? I don't know. All you have to do is put a capacitor across the solenoid.

Steve Smith
18-Jan-2012, 08:46
The Cactus V4 and V5 radio triggers do have an opto isolator, and will handle up to 300V. No idea about current though...

400v actually according to the opto isolator's manufacturer specification (rather than the Cactus spec. if it exists).


I'm pretty sure the RF602 does NOT have an opto isolator by the way.

It would be very easy to wire in a higher powered transistor to switch the solenoid or even use a relay with a low current coil. If there is an output which can power an opto isolator, it can be used to switch anything you want to hang off of it providing you use an appropriate circuit.


All you have to do is put a capacitor across the solenoid.

Or a diode.


Steve

nonuniform
22-Jan-2012, 20:53
Someday, I'm hoping someone will post a detailed Instructables on how they ended up building this....!

vinny
26-Mar-2015, 04:41
Richardman, how's it coming along? :)

chrism
28-Mar-2015, 18:58
I was thinking about such a device earlier today, when I was trying a self-portrait and needed a four second exposure (paper negative). I remember years ago the air bulb shutter releases that used to be in those small ads in AP. Still available, it turns out, from the auction site - here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KOOD-PROFESSIONAL-AIR-SHUTTER-RELEASE-PNEUMATIC-20-6-METER-REMOTE-SHUTTER-/201008950527). Now if treading on the bulb up to 20 feet from the camera isn't good enough, it would surely resolve some of the risks of shutter damage from too much force or too great a travel to have the wireless device just compress the bulb. As for longer exposures - use T instead of B and count without moving your lips! Just a thought....

C.

richardman
28-Mar-2015, 19:21
Richardman, how's it coming along? :)

Sadly, I have way not enough time :-/ I am working on a STM32F030+Bluetooth Low Energy kit though. Once done, it will be a shoe in for this project. Here's the SPI bus signals talking to the Bluetooth:

131549

Too much work, not enough time. Arggghhh.

AtlantaTerry
29-Mar-2015, 00:54
A device that might be of some help is the TriggerTrap: http://triggertrap.com/

AtlantaTerry
29-Mar-2015, 01:05
Since the original Graflite flashbulb holder was designed to work with lens board solenoids, why not use those items?

It seems to me all you would need to do is remotely trigger the lens board solenoid. The Graflite has at least one "H" female socket for remote triggering. So all one would need to add is a radio strobe synch set such as ones from PocketWizard or Paul Buff CyberSync. Add a flash cable from the receiver with an "H" male plug on the other end.

In my case I already own a Graflite flashbulb holder as well as a CyberSync kit and several PocketWizards. So it seems like all I will need to add is a cable to link a receiver to the Graflite.

Set the shutter to "T" and one pulse to open the shutter and a second to close it and you have your photo. True, there is no timer involved but I've found with long exposures on B&W film, close is good enough. A cell phone app or stopwatch can provide the duration, if needed.

The nice thing is a flashbulb can be added for fill, if needed. They are still made at a factory in Ireland by Meggaflash: http://www.meggaflash.com/

Question: do I have to worry about energy from the Graflite batteries going back to the radio receiver? If so, how do I isolate it? Or should I add a small relay between the receiver and the Graflite?

Graflite brochure on http://www.Graflex.org:
http://www.graflex.org/images/graflite/graflite-by-graflex.jpg

vinny
29-Mar-2015, 05:04
A device that might be of some help is the TriggerTrap: http://triggertrap.com/

Cool app.
Not wireless.
They don't make a cable for mechanical shutters.

vinny
29-Mar-2015, 05:06
I was thinking about such a device earlier today, when I was trying a self-portrait and needed a four second exposure (paper negative). I remember years ago the air bulb shutter releases that used to be in those small ads in AP. Still available, it turns out, from the auction site - here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KOOD-PROFESSIONAL-AIR-SHUTTER-RELEASE-PNEUMATIC-20-6-METER-REMOTE-SHUTTER-/201008950527). Now if treading on the bulb up to 20 feet from the camera isn't good enough, it would surely resolve some of the risks of shutter damage from too much force or too great a travel to have the wireless device just compress the bulb. As for longer exposures - use T instead of B and count without moving your lips! Just a thought....

C.
I'm going to pretend you read the thread and aren't the first person to suggest these horrible devices. Have one. Garbage. NOT WIRELESS.

chrism
29-Mar-2015, 08:40
Thank you for your courteous reply, kind sir.

C.

DKirk
29-Mar-2015, 09:16
Hmm, the tip of the air release, plus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_pneumatics then it's just a case of a servo and Bluetooth arduino could be the solution. - Now it's just figuring the control mechanism and components - could be do-able I reckon.

Jac@stafford.net
29-Mar-2015, 09:22
At the risk of beating the topic to death, there is a new-to-me Instructable here (http://www.instructables.com/id/Remote-Mechanical-Shutter-Release/). Scroll down to readers' contributions for a latching-solenoid version.

A question regarding the Graflite flashbulb holder and shutter solenoid: there is a remote/slave plug on the unit. Is a slave sensitive enough to infrared to use ordinary IR remotes? (The solenoid is not a latching type which might be problematic for long exposures.)

Almost all you might want to know about Graflite flashes by Mr. Lommen here (http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/GRAFLITE/).