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View Full Version : Sinar X and Rodenstock 300mm - Bellows?



Alessandro V.
6-Jan-2012, 03:24
Hello everybody!

I have just happily bought a used rodenstock 300mm to use together with my Sinax X 4x5 but when I received the lens I realized that I did not take into accont the super long bellow extention it would have required in case I wanted to focus on fairly close objects.

I read a bit around and I found out, please correct me if I am wrong, the the best option would be to buy a standard to place in the middle of the rail and to attach a normal bellow between the frontal standard and the middle one and a bag bellow between the middle and the rear one.
This solution would be perfect for me as I have already the two types of bellow plus an extention for the rail.
I took a look on ebay but I did not undestand several things:
- There is a specific "middle standard" or shall I simply buy a frontal standard?
- Which kind of standard can I use in conjuction with my Sinar X? I guess also Sinar P1 and P2 but I am not sure.
- Is there anything I would need that I am not taking into account?

Thank you very much for your help in advance!

Alessandro

erie patsellis
6-Jan-2012, 07:09
Horseman offers a longer bellows, around 18" if I recall. They show up from time to time.

rdenney
6-Jan-2012, 07:49
I took a look on ebay but I did not undestand several things:
- There is a specific "middle standard" or shall I simply buy a frontal standard?
- Which kind of standard can I use in conjuction with my Sinar X? I guess also Sinar P1 and P2 but I am not sure.
- Is there anything I would need that I am not taking into account?

The "multipurpose standard" is the normally supplied front standard for the F, F+, and F1 (NOT for the F2 or any other model). That's the standard to use (or its Norma-era equivalent), and it has the advantage that it can be attached to a rail without having to slide it over one end, so you don't have to remove the regular front and rear standard to attach an intermediate standard.

Note that the Norma-era multipurpose standard may be a better option for this purpose in that it is not really strong enough to support a lens and thus can be quite a bit cheaper. I see these occasionally for about a hundred bucks, while the F/P-era multipurpose standard can be up to twice that. When I looked last week, KEH had a Norma multipurpose standard for about that. It is completely usable with a later Sinar as a coupling between two 4x5 bellows sections. It's also more compact and therefore easier to squeeze into an empty space in your case. (Yes, I own one for all these reasons.) The Norma multipurpose standard uses a small U-frame and provides rise/fall, swing, and axial tilt, but the U-frame clamps are much simpler than the regular front/rear standard clamps, and are not strong enough to support a lens. So, if you want one that can double as a front standard, get the F-era front/multipurpose standard.

All Sinar 4x5 bellows are the same, whether Norma, F, X, C, or P. Any standard will work with any camera for coupling two bellows sections together.

You may also need rail extensions, but these can be added as needed easily. All round Sinar rail extensions will work with all Sinar base rails. The only difference between Norma, early F/P and late F/P extensions is the color, but that has no functional effect. Note that you can couple together any two bellows, either bag or standard. I usually use a Wide Angle Bellows 2 on my camera, but also bring along a standard bellows to use as a compendium shade. If I throw in my Norma multipurpose standard and a couple of extensions, I can easily get down to 1:1 with a 300mm lens.

You may find that the standard rail clamp is a bit challenged with a 300mm lens at 1:1 if there are any breezes about. You can add an additional rail clamp and tripod, or, more expensively, add an additional rail clamp and the special double-rail-clamp tripod mount (plus a really beefy tripod).

Rick "noting that this sort of flexibility is a great strength of the Sinar system" Denney

Robert Jonathan
6-Jan-2012, 14:45
I happen to have the Horseman extra long bellows, and that would be the best option.

Too bad I don't have an extra one. I'd sell it to you. :)

You can find them every so often used, for cheap.

Leigh
6-Jan-2012, 15:27
The ?standard? Sinar bellows is 28" (711mm), which will permit 1:1 with the 300mm lens.

- Leigh

rdenney
6-Jan-2012, 16:36
The ?standard? Sinar bellows is 28" (711mm), which will permit 1:1 with the 300mm lens.

- Leigh

You may want to stretch yours that far, but I don't really want to stretch mine that far. I don't think I could get mine to 1:1 with a 12" lens without really getting nervous. But, yes, it's not particularly short, and I could get mine focus a lot closer than infinity without needing two sets.

Rick "who doesn't like it when bellows start complaining audibly" Denney

Leigh
6-Jan-2012, 16:42
Hi Rick,

Given that the FFL of the 300mm Sironar-N is 282mm, you only need 582mm (~23") flange-to-film for 1:1.

Subtract about an inch for the various frames and attachments, and you need to extend the bellows ~22".

- Leigh