Packard Shutters and Vintage Lenses -- Need Your Input

[Tim Layton]

I know the topic of Packard shutters has been discussed here before so if I have missed my question in the archives, please let me know.

Basically, I have a growing collection of vintage lenses and I am working my way through working out my specific needs for each of the lenses as it relates to my style of photography. There are lenses that I could definitely use and benefit from a Packard shutter but I have physical challenges that I need to overcome regarding a traditional rear mount of the shutter.

I am hoping to get some creative ideas from the group here about some options on rear and front mounting when the obvious rear mount wont work for whatever reason.

At least for now my 8x10 cameras all use either a 5 1/2" or 6" square lens board, so I have that limitation at the moment regarding the size of Packard shutter. The second variable is the largest opening for a Packard shutter is 3" for that size mount. Some of my lenses have a diameter larger than 3" making this a problem/challenge that I need to overcome.

For example, I just got a Rodenstock Imagon 360mm in a barrel mount that has a rear diameter of about 4" and the second obstacle is that it extends about 1" in the rear. So, to use a Packard, I am thinking the only real option is to do a front mount of some type. Assuming a front mount Packard is even desirable, I would have to get a custom size made for that size which would have about an 8" board on it.

A second example would be my 14 1/2" Verito that has a 4 1/4" rear diameter.

A third example would be my 16" Vitax that has a rear diameter of about 4 1/2".

Even my Wollensak Vinco that came with my Eastman View No 2 has about a 1" protrusion behind the lens board, even though the diameter is only about 2 1/8". The diameter isn't a problem for the 6x6 board, but the 1" protrusion won't work without modifying the mount eight by way of extending the shutter behind the lens or a front mount solution.

Long story short, I am a mechanically inclined person and I could probably rig up just about anything, but I would like to get input and feedback from others on the forum here that has already worked through these issues and challenges.

I hope I am overlooking something obvious.


Thanks,

Tim


Standard Packard Shutters
1½" Diameter 3¼" x 3¼"
1¾" Diameter 3½" x 3½"
2" Diameter 4" x 4"
2¼" Diameter 4½" x 4½"
2½" Diameter 4¾" x 4¾"
2¾" Diameter 5" x 5"
3" Diameter 5¾" x 5¾"
3½" Diameter 6½ x 6½"

[carverlux]

Tim,

An admirable quest - one that has been successfully satisfied by the late Steve Grimes and now in the hands of the capable young men at SK Grimes the company in Woonsocket, RI.

The idea is to take a Packard that has a sufficiently large opening to accommodate your lenses and mount it in front of the lenses, using a combination of friction fit (they have a very cool idea) as well as threaded adapters. This way, you do not have to worry about lens boards, bellows, and fit. Just stick it out front.

Very large Packards are still available with up to an 8" opening for the lens (!) at the Packard Shutter Company, http://www.packardshutter.com/.

So good luck and for a little inspiration, please see attached photo.

carver

[Tim Layton]

Tim,

An admirable quest - one that has been successfully satisfied by the late Steve Grimes and now in the hands of the capable young men at SK Grimes the company in Woonsocket, RI.

The idea is to take a Packard that has a sufficiently large opening to accommodate your lenses and mount it in front of the lenses, using a combination of friction fit (they have a very cool idea) as well as threaded adapters. This way, you do not have to worry about lens boards, bellows, and fit. Just stick it out front.

Very large Packards are still available with up to an 8" opening for the lens (!) at the Packard Shutter Company, http://www.packardshutter.com/.

So good luck and for a little inspiration, please see attached photo.

carver

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you! I will contact SK Grimes next week and get some shutters orders from Reno at packardshutter.com.

Tim

[IanG]

Tim, this is where a larger Thornton Pickard Time and Instantaneous roller blind shutter comes into its own. They were made for front mounting or between lens and lens board, they often have interchangeable boards etc (between lens type).

They were sold in the US but probly rebadged by their importers Burke & James. The major advantage ove a Packard is they have a range of shutter speeds 1/15th to 1/90th as well as T, can use a bulb release with a valve for speeds between about 3 seconds and 1/4, and can easily be adapted (if not there already) to use a modern cable release.

Best of all even a fully restored shutter with a new curtain is a fraction of the cost of a 4½" Packard. Not forgetting that it's a period shutter and in the UK was sold as an OEM item with a camera & barrel lens from about 1890 onwards.

Ian

[Steven Tribe]

The problem with front mounted shutters is that you need an almost infinite number of sizes to mount on lenses with different diameters. You could ask IanG who many varieties of Thornton Pickard shutters he has!

My solution would be to have a single maximum diameter shutter ready to quick mount on the reverse side of the standard lens board. I have made a quick mock up of the situation below. Unlike the Packard, this Grundner has a "blind" edge of just 1cm. The example shown has an "aperture" opening of 14cm on a "board which is 17cm square. Pneumatic tubing can be "threaded" through the lens board.
The mounting is just 2 screws - but this could be simplified to something like the T-P turn latches.

[IanG]

The problem with front mounted shutters is that you need an almost infinite number of sizes to mount on lenses with different diameters. You could ask IanG who many varieties of Thornton Pickard shutters he has!

While it's true there's many variations in Thornton Pickard shutters (and similar) it would be easy to mount one of the less common larger versions to a lens board and just use different front boards for the shutter for each lens.

There's two basic variations of the shutters (aside from size), the original front mounted versions and the later between lens versions which is slightly more common.

Eddie Gunks saw a large TP shutter here front mounted on a big Darlot last summer, this allows the owner to use her wet plate lens on a more modern camera, and it's a very practical combination, no need for special mountin flanges etc.

Ian

[eddie]

hey all,

i made a video about this. i hope you all find it helpful and interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUrMZL1Jtc

thanks

eddie

[cowanw]

What kind of camera do you use?

[eddie]

What kind of camera do you use?

me?

i use kodak century universal , century studio cameras and a deadorff studio camera.

in the video it is a deardorff camera. the box is 6x6 so it will fit a field camera or the studio with an adapter.

[cowanw]

I meant Tim.
Mono rail cameras are amenable to behind the lens packard at their largest.

[Pete Watkins]

European LUC shutters are light and easily manageable, not like those crappy old Packards! Only trying to help. Dallmeyer made Packards under license in the UK so if you decide on a LUC or Thornton Pickard steer clear of Dallmeyers.
Pete.

[Steven Tribe]

Just another contribution about rear mounted shutters on lens boards.
This is a Grundner again mounted with a shutterless brass lens.
Note the "hemisphere" gives plenty of room for Petzval type long objectives.
This is the best drawing of the Grundner mechanism I have seen.

[Mark Sawyer]

Just to throw out a couiple more options, there's the guillotine shutter:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=68605

Or if your goal is proper exposure rather than a fast shutter speed, a large, dark neutral density filter could slow down daylight exposures enough to be done comfortably by hand.