External HDD for backup (OS-X)

[Matus Kalisky]

My old external HDD which I used only to back up my laptop (MacBook) via Time Machine just died. Not much of problem as I do not need the history of the data, but I certainly need a replacement.

Now the question is - what to get. I consider buying some external HDD with capacity of 1 TB or less. It should not serve as a main storage unit for large volume data (like scans, PS-files or movies - those are sitting on 2x1TB RAID1), just as a bootable disc with full backup of the system and small volume data that change often.

The main purpose is to be able to reboot from this backup drive if the HDD in my MacBook would go belly-up. The size of my HDD is only 160 GB and the 320 GB of my (old and now dead) backup HDD was more than enough too.

I have a few questions in the process:

1) Would it be possible to create two partitions - one to backup my laptop and one to backup my wife's Windows laptop? The boot-ablity is the main task here. It would allow us to have just one external HDD instead of 2.

2) What HDD to choose? Obviously the main parameter is longevity and of course compatibility. The absolute speed or noise is secondary as the thing will run once a week for 10 - 30 minutes. Compact size (small footprint) would be nice. If the HDD would not need external power source (large and bulky stuff, hate them) would be preferable, but that usually means the HDD was designed to be carried around and I do not know how that effects the performance.

EDIT: My current MacBook only has USB2. I will probably change my laptop in the future, but it is not a short or medium term project (I have no real reason to change it. I do plan to boost the RAM to 4GB though)

[Kirk Gittings]

I use an eSATA drive that I can stick right in the computer when the main HD fails. I put it in an enclosure and I use Carbon Copy Cloner to create the bootable drive.

[Peter De Smidt]

I like Kirk's suggestion. Get a quality enclosure for a single drive. Make sure it has a fan and the connections you need. Get a quality hard drive. I've had good luck with Seagate. Note that there are "consumer" grade drives and "enterprise" drives, with the latter being better built. When you get it, install the drive into the enclosure and run a full surface scan and format. This can take hours. You can use it as an external drive, and when your system drive fails, you can take the new drive out of the single bay enclosure and install it directly into your system.

[Allen in Montreal]

I use an eSATA drive that I can stick right in the computer when the main HD fails. I put it in an enclosure and I use Carbon Copy Cloner to create the bootable drive.

That sounds like a great idea.
I like the history of Time machine as I tend to need to retrieve a file more often than I care to admit. I would image it would be fairly easy to have a two disk Firewire enclosure and run Time Machine on Disk A and Carbon CC for Disk B?

[Matus Kalisky]

Thanks. Interesting idea on keeping a "spare" disc in external housing that can be directly used to replace the broken one. But I do not see the need to have another disc that is being cloned by additional software (e.g. the mentioned Carbon CC).

The only downside I see that potentially a good HDD that I would put in my MacBook may cost more than "standard" external HDD. Also - I would mind about the speed and noise as this HDD may actually end up to be used daily.

One additional question. If I were to do as proposed - would I really be be able to put this external HDD directly inside the Laptop and use it like there never was a crash? As I mentioned I do use Time Machine, but I actually do now know whether the backup has exactly the same structure ...

[Kirk Gittings]

Time Machine does not create a bootable HD in IME. You can "restore" your drive from TM. A true bootable copy drive you can stick right in as a replacement. CCC does and it is donation ware.

[J. Fada]

It seems to me that a simple portable external usb 2 hard drive is all you need. If you partition it you can use it for both yours and your wife's machines as backup. When you first get it use a cloning program to clone the operating system to it (I like SuperDuper) and then set it as your Time Machine backup drive. If you do this then you are covered no matter what.

[Jeffrey Sipress]

Why put a lot of data from multiple computer backups on one drive? If that drive goes south, you lose way more. Drives are cheap. Redundancy is good. My MacPro has 6 HD's with redundancy among them. My RAID array also protects data loss in case of failure. That's why I don't like the current 16GB CF cards for my digicam. I can accumulate a weeks worth of files and if it craps out, a lot is lost. I download more often to avoid that possibility.

[Matus Kalisky]

- Kirk -
I see, thanks.

- J.Fada -
Thanks. But why should I need to use a cloning program? Last time I just formatted the external drive and told Time Machine to use it as a backup .. ?

- Jeffrey -
Point taken. Don's some pro cameras have dual memory card slots? Concerning the HDD - I only would like to save on space & cables.

OK, guys - so let me ask a following question - should I concentrate on some particular HDDs or pretty much everything produced today will do the job? The prices vary of course (with specs and make). Should I go for portable HDD os some 2.5' that does not require external power source or would a "standard" 3.5' external drive be a better option?

[Allen in Montreal]

Matus,

If your hard drive crashes out and just needs to be blasted and a clean install, a 100 dollar USB 2 drive is all you need. The glory of Kirk's setup is instant swap out of a scrap hard drive and back on line in less time than it takes just to drive to the store to get a new disk if it craps out and is totally dead. The laptop drives cost more but they are not that dear compared to years past.

It really is a great idea for those who can not afford downtime.
If down time is not an issue just search for a Seagate USB 2 drive at discount as most shops want them gone in favor of USB 3 and the are dirty cheap when you can find them.

A year ago I had 3 cheap Lacie drives (90 dollar 1 terra usb drives in a black casing) crash in a few months. And customer support was totally shit!! They finally got me new drives. One of those crashed too. I really could not recommend the cheaper consumer grade Lacie junk.

That said. Hard drives are up 20 or 30 percent since the big floods in Thailand etc.
I swapped out my daughter's MacBook Pro drive from
160 to 750 gig for about 200.00.

[bvaughn4]

Having just done this to ensure the data on my MacBook Pro was totally backed up following a logic board failure, I purchased a 500gb Segate 5400 rpm drive and using Carbon Copy Cloner duplicated the 500gb 7500rpm drive that I removed from the laptop. This way, I had all of my data on a bootable HDD with all my apps, desktop exactly as I left it on the external drive in case they wiped the original 7500 rpm drive during the repair.

As mentioned, I am not sure if Time Machine backups will suffice for rebuilding a drive to make it bootable. The original cloning will take a while (took almost 10 hrs for my 500gb, but I was using a different MacBook with the new drive and MBP drive both in enclosures connected via FW400). After you have the cloned copy, you only need to re-clone when you update the OS software or add applications. If you only wanted to add "data" you could drag and drop it on the external drive. The beauty of buying a quality, fast, same physical size and large volume drive would be that you could swap it directly into the laptop in the event of a failure.

To address you other question, you should be able to make 2 partitions and allow one to be your Windows BU as well, but I think you will have problems if the partition size does not equal or exceed the size of the drive being backed up.

To me the main factors to accomplish your requirements are 1) get a good quality drive at least as large as the one in your laptop and a portable enclosure. 2) Clone the entire original drive to ensure it is bootable - check to see whether your machine will boot from USB or not. Some will only boot from firewire IIRC.

[Matus Kalisky]

Thank you. As I seem to get surprisingly similar advices I will definitely check that solution out.

Now let me just summarize to see whether I understood it correctly. So you propose:
1) Get a HDD (let's call it A) that in event of failure could be put directly inside my MB
2) Use whatever cloning software to create a bootable clone of my current MB HDD.
3) Get another external HDD (let's call it B) that will be used for time machine to backup data weekly (that is what I usually do). This HDD would just replace the one that had just died.
4) The HDD A needs to be cloned only once or after OS-X update. Is that right?
5) Should my current MB HDD fail I would simply put it the HDD A and update all the data from the HDD B. Is that right?
6) The procedure above is supposed to save the "dead time" in the case of MB HDD failure
7) The procedure above is "on the safe side" because as of now I (you) are not sure whether backup created by Time Machine only is enough to rebuild the whole system.
8) If my MB HDD does not fail the investment made in the HDD A will be "wasted" (well .. )
9) Should I do all as proposed it would probably make sense to test the whole chain - namely create the bootable drive, put it inside the MB, boot from it and recover the back-up date from the HDD B.

I am going to have a look at suitable components and also read a bit about the Time Machine.

[Matus Kalisky]

OK, update from my side (reading & learning):

- CCC will create a clone at given time. Every time it is run again only the latest version of files is kept - no versions like with Time Machine
- If one does not need the older versions of files, the CCC is all one needs to have a bootable backup
- if one keeps the CCC backup on a compatible HDD - in a case of failure one just installs the backup HDD in the computer/laptop and life (& work) goes on

So - my preferred solution now is to get a new S-ATA hard drive that is compatible with my MacBook (the first 13" unibody version, not the "pro") and housing for it and use the CCC (or similar) to create bootable clone (and update once a week or so)

Question - what HDD to get? I would prefer a silent one (and possibly at least as fast as my old one, faster is OK :) )

[Matus Kalisky]

UPDATE: Seagate Momentus 500GB and external HDD housing are on their way. I hope it will all work :)

UPDATE 2: ... and ordered 2x4GB RAM as a present to myself :)

[Peter De Smidt]

Sounds like a good plan. Let us know how it works out!

[bvaughn4]

Answers below.


Thank you. As I seem to get surprisingly similar advices I will definitely check that solution out.

Now let me just summarize to see whether I understood it correctly. So you propose:
1) Get a HDD (let's call it A) that in event of failure could be put directly inside my MB. YES
2) Use whatever cloning software to create a bootable clone of my current MB HDD. YES
3) Get another external HDD (let's call it B) that will be used for time machine to backup data weekly (that is what I usually do). This HDD would just replace the one that had just died. YES
4) The HDD A needs to be cloned only once or after OS-X update. Is that right? True UNLESS you allow OS X to be updated via normal Apple updates or you add or update an application. Otherwise, in the event of having to use HDD A, you would revert to pre updates state.
5) Should my current MB HDD fail I would simply put it the HDD A and update all the data from the HDD B. Is that right? YES
6) The procedure above is supposed to save the "dead time" in the case of MB HDD failure. Yes
7) The procedure above is "on the safe side" because as of now I (you) are not sure whether backup created by Time Machine only is enough to rebuild the whole system. YES
8) If my MB HDD does not fail the investment made in the HDD A will be "wasted" (well .. ) Only if you consider redundancy a waste. If periodically "recloned" to keep up with MBP updates, it will be usable for a long time.
9) Should I do all as proposed it would probably make sense to test the whole chain - namely create the bootable drive, put it inside the MB, boot from it and recover the back-up date from the HDD B. I wouldn't go so far as to install it for a test, just boot the MBP off of it via FireWire - be SURE the drive is 2.5" and will fit into the MBP case.

I am going to have a look at suitable components and also read a bit about the Time Machine.

[Matus Kalisky]

Thank you. I am now waiting for the components to be delivered.

[Matus Kalisky]

UPDATE:

A) The components:

1) External HDD housing Lian-Li EX10Q USB3.0
- a bit more expensive at 24€, but VERY well made and solid. The HDD is hold in place with 4 screws and is isolated from the housing itself via rubber pads. It came with Y-cable too. The electronics inside is hold in place with another 3 screws. The housing itself closes with another 4 screws (these are black you will not mix them up). It is USB3.0 so can be very fast. My MacBook (of course) does not have that (and no FireWire either :( ), but it works with USB2.0 just fine. Worth every penny.

2) Seagete Momentus 5400.6 500GB
- seems to run fine and is relatively quiet. I can not directly compare to my old drive as this one is hold in place via dedicated rubber pads (inside laptop).

3) 2x 4GB Kingston (Crucial was sold out) PC3 8500 CL7 204 SODIMM
- I got these to finally upgrade from 2GB to 8GB.

4) Carbon Copy Cloner (and once it worked I donated by bit as I find it deserved)

B) The process:

1) I installed the new HDD inside the casing, downloaded the CCC and followed the steps (on CCC webpage) to create a bootable clone of my MacBook HDD

2) Once finished I set up the CCC to update the clone every time the backup HDD will be connected. One day later I did exactly that - just reconnected the backup hdd and the CCC started immediately and asked whether I want the update or not. I did that and it took some 20 minutes (bit more than Time Machine would I think).

3) To test the cloned HDD I booted via USB from it to see whether it will work. It took longer than normal and while in general it was all working there were some issues with graphical part - most drop-down menus (like the one you get when you click on the "apple") or the pop-up menus (spotlight, dock) did not really show, but were there (one had to guess). I did manage to start safari and some more applications, but it was slow and the safari froze eventually and I was not able to kill it with activity monitor, so finally I had to shut down the computer the hard way.

4) As I did not quite enjoy the result of the (3) I went one step further and swapped the discs to see how the clone will work when built-in the laptop. It worked PERFECTLY and definitely faster than original (3 year old) HDD. I felt relieved :) So the task was accomplished

5) Now the RAM update. I was not sure how it will work as my MacBook 13" is the late 2008 aluminum (unibody) model, not a "pro" model and according to Apple it only accepts 2x2GB, not 2x4GB. However I have read on several places that with the latest update of Boot ROM (B03) and the SMC Version (1.32f8) the MacBook should run fine with 2x4GB. So I've built it in and ... it WORKED (My MacBook indeed sees 8GB of RAM). I felt relieved for the 2nd time :p Photoshop CS3 sees only 3GB, but I recall reading that only later versions can use more. Never mind - it still is a large step.

Summary: Thank you for you help, you made it easier for me to get this update done. Hope others will find this little exercise helpful as well.

[Peter De Smidt]

Thank you for the update. I'm glad everything worked out!

[Matus Kalisky]

I only wanted to say that I recently updated to Snow Leopard and everything is just sunshine and rainbows ;)

[wclark5179]

The biggest ingredient I see is irrelevant redundancy relative to backups of digital files as, I've found, over the years, very few request a copy of a digital file and I haven't encountered corrupted digital files on my XT HD's.. As for making copies of your art for posterity, I recommend making prints that people can view with their eyes several hundred years from now.

I haven't had a HD die just yet and I suppose I'm due but when that happens I have several backups that, I hope, one will work for bringing up some clients request for a photograph from the past.

My recommendation, careful care of your existing files on existing drives should be a source of recall later, many years/decades from now.

I've got negatives from the 1950's and forward in time, one copy and I haven't been skunked yet.

Here are my current external drives I use for images:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/736911-REG/Western_Digital_WDBACX0010BBK_NESN_My_Passport_Essential_SE.html

Good luck.

[Aksana3D]

Maybe this article will be useful: https://hetmanrecovery.com/recovery_news/top-ten-ways-to-lose-your-data.htm

[Light Guru]

Maybe this article will be useful: https://hetmanrecovery.com/recovery_news/top-ten-ways-to-lose-your-data.htm

FYI this thread is 4.5 years old. No need to dig up old dead posts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leigh]

No need to dig up old dead posts.
Sez who?

I'm using a very similar RAID1 configuration with 2x2TB hard drives on this computer.

It is certainly best practice in the modern day.

- Leigh

[Corran]

RAID is dead, JBOD with a dedicated OS infrastructure like unRAID is better and easier for most individual uses - same concept with a parity disk but easier to setup/maintain. My 10TB server has been running flawlessly for about two years now. One could setup a JBOD server with random HDDs laying around for practically free.

[Jim Andrada]

Hadn't looked seriously at unRAID before - thanks for the link. I did find the following from their website somewhat amusing:

Virtualization technology has advanced much since it was first introduced

Considering that it's just about 50-years/half-a-century since IBM shipped a commercial Virtual Machine system I would certainly think that the technology might have advanced a bit.

[Sasquatchian]

Personally, I like having an external drive bay from OWC that you can plug in any bare drive when you need it. It's a great tool for drive swaps and general diagnosis when needed. I have had the internal drives on both of my MBP's go south within the last few months, with the second one only being last week. I keep a Time Machine backup on both, and in the case of the recent drive going bad - and I heartily recommend Tech Tool Pro, Disk Warrior and Cocktail in addition to Disk Utility - I did a complete Time Machine backup as TTP told me that the drive was in the process of failing. I ordered a new 1 TB drive from OWC for $70, put that in the external bay, and then used Time Machine's Restore From Time Machine Backup to restore the most recent TM backup to the new drive. After formatting, it took about three hours and I had a complete copy of my old drive on the new one. Booted up off the new one while still in the external bay just to make sure it was working then shut it all down and swapped out the drives.

You can use CCC, Super Duper, TTP or even Disk Utility to make a clone of your drive, but in my case, that operation failed - maybe because the drive was already failing, but in any case it was great to know that the Time Machine route worked flawlessly. And in the case of this particular laptop, because it's used to run Extensis Portfolio, which will not run on anything later than 10.9.5, I couldn't just install a new OS on the new drive and migrate everything over, which is what I did a few months ago.

One final note on aging MacBook Pro's. A known weak link is the very delicate ribbon cable that attaches to the internal drive. I had one of those fail on the night of an exhibit opening I was having and it looked initially like the drive had failed catastrophically. That was an area where that external bay came in handy. Took that internal drive out, put in the the external bay and booted from the Disk Warrior bootable thumb drive and the once internal drive showed up just fine. Then booted up from that same now external drive and it was fine. All arrows pointed at the cable, which was confirmed at the Apple Store where they replaced it for free even though it was long out of warranty. That part is under fifty bucks, so not a bad idea to have one on hand just in case.

[Greg]

Have had several HDs of various makes (Lacie, WD, etc.) die over the years. On the advice of a videographer professor, I now use 2 separate large OWC HDs. Each year the older one is retired and replaced by a newer one. Past year's worth of images files saved on Gold DVDs every first week in January (when it's cold up here in New England and staying inside no problem during a snow storm) and desktop entirely cleaned up. Image files that I am ongoing working on are stored on my iMac's desktop and also on an orange Lacie Rugged portable USB3 HD which is also gone over every first week in january.

[jp]

Hadn't looked seriously at unRAID before - thanks for the link. I did find the following from their website somewhat amusing:

Virtualization technology has advanced much since it was first introduced

Considering that it's just about 50-years/half-a-century since IBM shipped a commercial Virtual Machine system I would certainly think that the technology might have advanced a bit.

The virtual tech unraid is writing about it virtualizing x86 computing which started in 2005 with AMD and Intel hardware (and paravirtualization in linux software for pre-2005 chips) It is so advanced and changing so quickly that it's nerdy as possible and poorly documented at it's bleeding edge, keeping it beyond most people's abilities to setup and administer. Unraid appears to be attempting to simplify it.

At work, we keep DVDs or ISOs of all the major MacOS versions so someone could install a particular version if needed. We can often duplicate ailing hard drives with dd-rescue. Apple has also used a great variety of hard drive connectors in their laptops, changing it much more often than the PC makers. We have to keep a variety of adapter boards or adapter ribbon cables for accessing hard drives with different connectors. I think they want people to either to only use factory repair options or upgrade more frequently.

[Jim Andrada]

Before virtualizing X86's, people had been virtualizing mainframes for a couple of decades so it was even in that era basically a matter of moving a well understood technology to the X86 platform, where it continued to evolve. (I started working in the so-called computer biz in 1959 and worked in the same IBM group at Technology Square in Cambridge that developed VM technology, although I worked on a different project.) Most people seem to think that virtualization started in the PC era, but it was already "old hat" by the time the PC put in an appearance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_CP-40)

[jnantz]

a handful of years ago, backing up
with superduper with hard drives firewired to
a g3 .. at one point, we had a catastrophic failure of both internal drives
which crashed at the same time ... i replaced both drives in the g3 box
and "restored" with super duper, and it worked flawlessly.
i use a drobo with a bunch of drives in it
and smart backup with superduper
( it just ran 20 seconds ago ).

[Jim Andrada]

I back up all my important stuff like photos to the cloud.