Pinkham + Smith Semi-Achromatic 11 inch f/6 lens

[P Fisher]

Hi everyone,

I have a Pinkham + Smith 11" f/6 Semi-Achromatic lens and I am wondering if some of you can help me to determine it's approximate value. The lens elements are in excellent condition, but the aperture blades have been removed. I understand that there is a lot of interest in these early soft-focus lenses and that they can command fairly high prices. This sounds good to me, because I am more of a multicoated, high contrast lens using kind of guy.

Any help with appraisal will be greatly appreciated! I will add some photos when I get a chance.

[CCHarrison]

You can get a ballpark from some of the Pinkham Sales listings here: http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenssales.html

then deduct for the lack of aperture...

Good luck

Dan

[P Fisher]

Thanks! That is certainly a helpful link!

Pics:http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1612/ps1web.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/ps1web.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[P Fisher]

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6920/ps2web.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/ps2web.jpg/)



http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7305/ps3web.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/ps3web.jpg/)

[Louis Pacilla]

If you really want to find out the value. Put it on eBay for a seven day auction ending on a Sunday night. Take very good photos like the ones you posted here and DO NOT TAKE OFFERS. let it ride to the end. Most serious bids are made in the last seconds.



The offers you'll receive most times are less than it can be resold for or the lens will bring at the end of a straight eBay auction.

There you go.

Oh yea IMHO.

Happy Holidays

That's how you'll make the most.

[P Fisher]

Louis, I am going to take your excellent advice. I think I'll list it for a 7 day auction next Sunday. Who would have guessed that the simplest, softest, oldest lens that I own would also be the most valuable? I suppose that's how it goes with rare, special purpose items...

[Alan Gales]

Just some more advice from an Ebay Seller. Take plenty of sharp photos of the lens and give detailed information about the lens in your auction. Presentation means a whole lot in determining what price you will get for the lens.

[eddie]

Who would have guessed that the simplest, softest, oldest lens that I own would also be the most valuable?..

Maybe you should keep it.

Sharp,contrasty, coated lenses u mentioned in another post are a dime a dozen and can be had any day for a few hundred bucks.......

[P Fisher]

Eddie, it is now quite apparent that there are quite a few people out there that would certainly appreciate the lens much more than I do. The whole soft focus look just isn't my thing. I'm also pleased to know that I'll now be able to afford some nice 4x5 lenses that I've been dreaming about. I am very new to this whole large format thing, having recently bought my first pack of sheet film and not even had the chance to expose a single sheet. I don't even own anything with a shutter yet!

[Mark Sawyer]

Missing the aperture is quite a drawback, but I still would guess you'll do quite well on ebay. Selling that one lens will buy you several very nice lenses, with something left for film, chemicals, maybe even a little trip to use them. But once it's gone, you'll likely never have another like it.

[eddie]

The whole soft focus look just isn't my thing.

it will be.....


I'm also pleased to know that I'll now be able to afford some nice 4x5 lenses that I've been dreaming about.

most all modern 4x5 lenses in shutters can be had for under $250.......


I am very new to this whole large format thing

which is why you may consider advice from others who have been doing this a while.....read what mark says below......


But once it's gone, you'll likely never have another like it.

exactly!!

trust me. if you really do shoot LF you will one day want this lens.......i bet in 8-10 months of shooting LF....

and then you will want to shoot wet plate.....

and then 8x10....

and then....

i will be watching e bay. we should have a pool for what we think it will sell for.....how can we do that? hhhhmmmm?

[Mark Sawyer]

trust me. if you really do shoot LF you will one day want this lens.......i bet in 8-10 months of shooting LF....

and then you will want to shoot wet plate.....

and then 8x10....

and then....


Eddie's right. hmmm... maybe you'd better sell everything before it's too late! :D

[cyberjunkie]

Come on, boys! Let him sell the lens, and enjoy what he could afford after selling that P&S!
I admit that i'd love to own one, but let's face it, most of the forum members speculate all the time about "how sharp" a lens is, not "how soft" :)
Most soft lenses were quite cheap at their time, well not a Universal Heliar or a few others, but most were. Nevertheless those lenses were sold in small numbers, mainly to artists or professional portrait studios in the big cities. Some shorter focals were sold to the movie industry, but was still a limited production.
So it's not a surprise that they are not common nowadays.
Fortunately the target is as small as it was when those lenses were sold new.
Other way they would be prohibitively expensive.
For sure the LF soft focus lenses are more popular today than 10 years ago, when the prices were much lower.
How unfortunate that i wasn't interested in them at the time... :(
I had lost all my interest in LF photography, so i didn't care. But i still had three LF cameras at home, and plenty of lenses.
The OP doesn't even own a shutter. If he sells the lens, he could delight one of the followers of the P&S cult, and at the same time get the money to buy a very satisfying LF outfit (probably still saving some of the income for something else).
When/if he develops an interest in soft lenses, the prices could have gone down, or maybe he could even get an unexpected lucky chance. Who knows...
I payed 100 euros on Ebay Italy, BIN (!!), for a Cooke Portrait Series IIE, a diaphragm lens holder, a Symmar, and a Kodak Master View!

Sell the lens. Get good money. Buy whatever you think you need NOW.
Learn LF photography, and stock some of your preferred sheet film, just in case.
If you can, save some money for the future. Lucky chances happen, but you need some money when you find one...


have fun

CJ

[P Fisher]

Hey folks,

Got a chance today to mount the lens on my camera and rigged up a nice aperture unit for it from an old Aldis Anastigmat.

Here's what it looks like on the ground glass:

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/1750/plantsweb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/plantsweb.jpg/)

I believe this is stopped down a bit. Haven't had a chance to shoot any film with it yet (darn these short winter days!).

[P Fisher]

Must...

Not... Get...

Too Attached!

[Jim Galli]

You don' need no stinkin' aperture.....

Trade ya a nice 5X7 Deardorff and an ubersharp 240mm f9 lens for it!

[P Fisher]

I'm thinking I should spend some time actually taking photos with the thing before I part with it. It's not like it's lost any value in it's ~100 years of existence

[Mark Sawyer]

I'm thinking I should spend some time actually taking photos with the thing before I part with it. It's not like it's lost any value in it's ~100 years of existence

I'd agree, even if you decide not to keep it, you basically have free rental of it til you part with it. On the other hand, that's also time you don't have the sharp lenses you want. On the third hand, you'll never have one like this again. On the fourth hand...

If you decide you want to put all of the proceeds from its sale into photo gear, you may get a much better deal by trading it here than selling it on ebay. Think of what you'd want to get... all lenses for your 4x5, or a 5x7 outfit, maybe an 8x10 outfit?

[eddie]

You don' need no stinkin' aperture.....



I'm thinking I should spend some time actually taking photos with the thing before I part with it.

:D ;)

[johnielvis]

interesting....all these posts and not one mention of what was originally asked---which is: how much is it worth?

everybody wants it but nobody wants to say how much they'd pay cause they think they're gonna get it cheaper if they dont' tip their hand....everyone wants the bargain....like anybody here is gonna part with any money at all.....unless, of course, they have already sold it for more money and have already received said money.....typical....bet everyone that wants it don't want it to use either....just to $ell.....

how about renting it out to the salivators? bet all the admireres won't take you up on it cause they don't even want to part with the rental fee....they just want commodity to get ritches......ahhhh....lovely money....always on the mind....ahhhhhh

[Mark Sawyer]

interesting....all these posts and not one mention of what was originally asked---which is: how much is it worth?


The very first reply refered the poster to prices for 14 recent sales of P&S lenses within the last two years, including two Semi-Achromats this year. And I think most of the advice he's gotten here has been honest and fair, with the most prevalent being "keep it, at least a while," and "put it on ebay and see what it brings".

[E. von Hoegh]

I see johnny is still projecting....

[johnielvis]

yeah...he had to come here to get the idea to see what other lenses sold for....

he can do that easily, anybody can.

this is just another one of them fantasy things I guess.....everyone TALKS about how desirable it is but they really don't want it...hell, I bet that if any one of these admirers of "the pinkum" was GIVEN it to use, but never sell, they wouldn't use it...the desire is like having the rolex....vs the timex.......I completely undertstand...this is another fantasy thread....

sort of like dudes looking at some hot chick and "you know what I'd do with her"...wish I could have that BUT I don't have the money....

believe me, you got the money, you just don't want it

like if suddenly you needed some operation to save your life for the same price....I'll wager you'd come up with the money then.....

everyone TALKS and TALKS about "how sweet" a pinkum would be....why not offer to borrow one and see if you really want it.

want a super hot chick---call a hooker---they come right to your door like a pizza...and just how you want them..don't like the way it looks, send it back and get another....

but no....better to talk...then the fantasy stays alive.....

blah blah blah I know......jsut sometimes it gets me....

by the way...what's "projecting" mean....I know wer're not talking about slides...

I think it means that somehow I want the thing...if I wanted it, I'd have it...i don't want it--I know that if it was GIVEN to me, I would not use it....just like the dudes talking about hot chicks in the bar...if one came up and offered herself, he wouldn't be able to doit....find some excuse "I'm married"....whatever...

see--i don't get the luxury of fantasy cause i see through bs too clearly---so much that I can't eve bs myself---I'm actually jealous of you guys that gets to fantasize and believe in something....that's not for the realist, unfortunately....

[Mark Sawyer]

Elevating trolling to new depths...

[eddie]

I see johnny is still projecting....


Elevating trolling to new depths...

you guys are too funny. i still got johnny on ignore....so i can not see anything he says....well, except where mark quoted him (bad mark! bad bad mark!)

[CCHarrison]

Ya know, this lens without an aperture is basically any old simple landscape lens pre 1900 with its aperture removed.. :rolleyes:

Cheap ways to do this are:

Buy a Scovill Waterbury lens for your given format - these are f/15 lenses at their largest stop... Remove the glass (unscrews easily out the back)...remove the waterhouse wheel (held by a simple screw), find a wooden dowel/rod to place flush and firmly against the soldered metal aperture plate that remains in front of the lens - and firmly hit the dowel to punch out that ring, leaving you with a wide open lens barrel. Replace glass. You now have a Waterbury Soft Focus lens fixed at f/6. There are variations to this procedure. You can remove the waterhouse wheel and just drill a much larger aperture in the fixed, metal plate aperture that remains, perhaps leaving a very small edge around the perimeter for an f/9 or so lens...this would make the lens a bit less fuzzy than f/6, but perhaps more to your liking. These lenses sell for $ 100-250 fairly regularly on ebay....

An even simpler but much harder to locate option is to look for an early 1880's Nickel lens by Rochester Optical. These simple landscape lenses ("Single View Lens") were sold with a set of stops that were inserted in a slot based around the lens rim. In this case, no need for any modification - just dont use the stops. Voila, you have an f/5.6 lens thats going to have lots of Soft Focus character.... However, these are hard to find...they were only made a few years, about 1884-1886. But, I did just pick one up in 4x5 size on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330660306606?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) for $ 139...

I recently posted about a little experiment I did with yet another small brass landscape lens that is built with one fixed stop at f/16....but the front unit containing the stop easily unscrews to make the lens about f/7. I was out X-Mas day with this lens and shot my inflatable Santa....

These are but 3 examples to get to Soft Focus land for cheap dollars. I hate to see an antique lens potentially get "altered," but if you want to experiement with Large Format Soft Focus and dont want to chat about paying $ 4K for a Pinkham or other sky high prices for these once forgotten about SF lenses..... be creative... there are lots of brass lenses out there that can be altered to try Soft Focus - well, at least one type of Soft Focus.

Best,
Dan

[Jim Galli]

And, one that Dan didn't mention; Take the front off of the Petzval you already have. People pay high prices for these to get that pretty inscription that says "Pinkham &
Smith"

[P Fisher]

Woah, mondo trollage dude! I've actually found everyone's responses to be quite helpful. It actually is quite hard to assess the value of a lens that the internet doesn't even know exists:

http://tinyurl.com/ps11inch

hoping to take a couple shots with it in the morning...

[Mark Sawyer]

you guys are too funny. i still got johnny on ignore....so i can not see anything he says....well, except where mark quoted him (bad mark! bad bad mark!)

You missed a good one, Eddie! Not only are we all out to scam poor P Fisher, but we're also just dreamers who wouldn't know how to use the lens, and we're sexually impotent with hot chicks and hookers too... :eek:

And P, thanks for putting up with us! And I'm glad you're getting a bit of experience with the lens, whether you keep it or not. Whether it's history, status, or the aesthetic effect, the Pinkhams are special lenses. :)

[goamules]

Yeah, I've set the trolls to ignore too. I'm too busy answering legit questions about lenses, and taking pictures with the ones I have, to mess with bitter people. !

[E. von Hoegh]

you guys are too funny. i still got johnny on ignore....so i can not see anything he says....well, except where mark quoted him (bad mark! bad bad mark!)

Mea Culpa.
I saw the quote and made the mistake of looking at the whole post.:o :o

Sorry.

[eddie]

Mea Culpa.
I saw the quote and made the mistake of looking at the whole post.:o :o

Sorry.

no! sorry for you.....:p

[E. von Hoegh]

no! sorry for you.....:p

Indeed.

[E. von Hoegh]

You missed a good one, Eddie! Not only are we all out to scam poor P Fisher, but we're also just dreamers who wouldn't know how to use the lens, and we're sexually impotent with hot chicks and hookers too... :eek:

And P, thanks for putting up with us! And I'm glad you're getting a bit of experience with the lens, whether you keep it or not. Whether it's history, status, or the aesthetic effect, the Pinkhams are special lenses. :)

Perhaps P will use the lens to make a picture of himself in flagrante with a hot hooker:) .

[cowanw]

soft, of course

[johnielvis]

well...looks like we got a convert to the pinkum price-fixers club....

PUBLIC forum but the question got answered in secret...pms...etc....no discussion of the evaluation...like the first response was "pm me".....

psst psst psst....

then in public "you can check ebay"....

"oh I hadn't thought of that...brilliant"

I'm curious---what DID the owner determine the value to be? What would he sell it for?

won't get an answer....all hidden to prevent "showing your hand"....don't wanna give it away too cheap if you can get MORE.....

of course I can be proven wrong if the owner as well as the other pinkum price fixers post their tablulation of values of what they would buy and sell for...but if they do it'll all be bs anyways....they like to keep their precious a big "hidden city" secret.

what is the decided upon value then?

[P Fisher]

unfortunately I am not at liberty to divulge that information at this time...

...please refer to ebay which will provide you with no information

[johnielvis]

see--this is like using a public corner to do dope deals.

how does this thread benefit ALL of the people on the PUBLIC forum?--it doesn't--this provides a "hook up" place for private deals that benefit a few

if the price information WERE provided, then that would benefit ALL, but you guys are not doing that, so it's kind of an abuse of what this place is about--I think that's what's getting in my craw here.

Then again...if you can do it, then I can do it, so....ok I guess....it's just sort of irritating to have a HUGE post back and forth with information that people would benefit from and then NOT provide that infoformation.

What is the point of this place? to benefit a few or all?

[Mark Sawyer]

I think that's what's getting in my craw here...

If you look long enough and hard enough, you'll eventually find something to get in your craw...

[P Fisher]

An update:

We should all know how much an 11" Pinkham & Smith Semi Achromatic lens is worth 7 days from now... hint hint

mods: please delete this post if you feel that it conflicts with any forum rules

[Jim Galli]

WooHoo, I'm the high bidder!! (for now)

[eddie]

WooHoo, I'm the high bidder!! (for now)

Damn! I bid 790. And u r still winning. U can have it!

[Jim Galli]

Damn! I bid 790. And u r still winning. U can have it!

he he he, but mine wasn't enough to trip the reserve.

[eddie]

Mine either!

[P Fisher]

Sounds like you guys are having almost as much fun as I am! :)

[eddie]

Yeah. But now u will have to wait till the last 3 seconds to see what it really sells for.

I am done

[P Fisher]

This is true. However, I hope the high bid doubles every morning before then like it did this morning!

[eddie]

not sure how you do it. 16 bids already....my sh!t never does that....even the P&S.

anyway....i bet it sits where it is till the end of the auction....lets see what tomorrow brings.

[CCHarrison]

eddie

Most "experts" agree that starting bids high like you are, doesnt work. Most advise to start at a buck and let it rip.... trust the system... or put a reserve, althought most people say stay away from reserves as well. High starting amounts and reserves turn the majority of bidders off.

Dan

[P Fisher]

Eddie:

No need to wait until tomorrow

Yeee Haw!