Bruce Barnbaum's new book - Plateaus and Canyons

[Jim Becia]

Ok,

I am a "color" guy, but do love looking at black and white work. Barnbaum's black and white work is top notch (in my book.) I have a couple of his books and they show his expertise in both composition and printing. This new book is his first in color and the images are from the southwest. I have looked this book over and over. And now this is my opinion, but his color work is so disappointing to me. A couple of things really strike me about his color work. It seems that his compositions in color are woefully lacking, and his use of color and light just is not there. Having worked in southern Utah for a year and having been back there more times that I can count in the last 25 years, I think this body of work to be lacking in so many ways. Has anyone else looked at this book? And if so, am I missing something in this body of work? Again, I really like his black and white work, but this new book is lacking in my opinion. Comments??

[Eric Rose]

My sentiments exactly.

[Merg Ross]

It has long been my contention that there are those who "see" in black and white and those who "see" in color. Eliot Porter comes to mind in the latter category, and a host of others in the former. Brett Weston claimed that he was color blind, perhaps Bruce is also, although I am unfamiliar with his color work. Many before him have tried both, for instance Ansel Adams, Edward Weston and Harry Callahan. The results speak for themselves.

[Robert Brummitt]

It has long been my contention that there are those who "see" in black and white and those who "see" in color. Eliot Porter comes to mind in the latter category, and a host of others in the former. Brett Weston claimed that he was color blind, perhaps Bruce is also, although I am unfamiliar with his color work. Many before him have tried both, for instance Ansel Adams, Edward Weston and Harry Callahan. The results speak for themselves.


We the viewers can also be bias. When you mention the name Ansel Adams or Edward Weston, we all think great black and white work. When you mention Elliot Porter or Christopher Burkett, we think great color work.
And if those photographer ver from what we think as what we should see, we tend to think the work can be weak.
I have the color books by AA and EW. The work is fine. I would like to see what a great color printer like Christopher could do with Ansel's color chromes? Or Charles Cramer could do with Edwards? That would be interesting indeed!

[Robert Brummitt]

The only reason I haven't purchase Bruce's new book is I would like to see it first. I received the ads for the book but it only had very few images. I like to hold it in my hands and give it a real look before buying.

[Kirk Gittings]

It has long been my contention that there are those who "see" in black and white and those who "see" in color. Eliot Porter comes to mind in the latter category, and a host of others in the former. Brett Weston claimed that he was color blind, perhaps Bruce is also, although I am unfamiliar with his color work. Many before him have tried both, for instance Ansel Adams, Edward Weston and Harry Callahan. The results speak for themselves.

Agreed......totally.

[Drew Wiley]

Porter got Stieglitz's attention with black and white shots, not color. And EW made a
few stunning color shots. Disposition and tech skill etc are a different subject - color
was a lot more complex to print back then. I personally have no difficult moving back and forth between both color and b&w, and don't think either suffers from it.
When I've shown both kinds of work together, different folks would gravitate toward
different media. It was fun watching. Guess I'm schizo or whatever, but I thoroughly enjoy both.

[Nathan Potter]

Is there anyone that comes to mind who has done superb work in both color and B&W and is represented by a definitive body of work in both?

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Drew Wiley]

Steichen. He was a versatile dude. But you can't compare quantity versus quantity,
because color was indeed much more of a technical challenge in his day. A lot of how this topic is perceived is probably skewed by what conservators have chosen to
represent based upon their personal preferences. I thoroughly disagree with the notion that a person can't master both. There are also practical and financial reasons
why the weathervane might go one way and not the other. I love Laura Gilpin's early
and somewhat naive color work, though platinum became her best know medium; but Kirk is probably better informed about her than I am. And I am sincere when I
said that I admire the relatively few Kodachromes EW made - it just wasn't the kind
of thing a starving artist type like him could personally cultivate in a primitive dkrm.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh, Nathan I guess you mean famous dead folks. But a number of folks not dead yet
have extensively worked in both, including myself. But since I won't be canonized
until some homeless former art historian is grubbing thru a dumpster the week after my funeral and I suddenly become the next Uncle Earl, I'll refer to Misrach up the
hill from me. His got on the map doing black and white split-toned night shots before his color ventures. Meyerowitz was also a black and white practitioner first.

[Duane Polcou]

Is there anyone that comes to mind who has done superb work in both color and B&W and is represented by a definitive body of work in both?

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Philip Hyde worked for many years in black and white before turning to color to photograph for the Sierra Club exhibit format books. I think some of his B/W Grand Canyon work to be some of the most beautiful images I've seen.

Eliot Porter, known for his color work, has a book out there entitled "Eliot Porter's Southwest", which I have a copy of. Exclusively LF black and white, and some beautiful work.

Morley Baer published a book I really like, "The Wilder Shore", both B/W and color. I vastly prefer the B/W images, but the color ones have an understated, non-oversaturated realism to them.

William Neill is well known as a color landscape photographer, but has converted some of his earlier color work to B/W (Heresy!! Cheating! Where's the Previsualization? What would Ansel think??) in a book entitled "Meditations in Monochrome" that has some beautiful images in it.

Steve Mulligan in Moab, Utah has produced books in color and color calendars for Brown Trout, and has published several books in black and white, two of which I have seen and are outstanding, Terra Incognita and Earthworks.

Robert Mapplethorpe published images of flowers in both B/W and color, I think.

Helmut Newton, Herb Ritts, Ellen von Unwerth all shot/shoot portraits in B/W and color.

[J. Fada]

There is a big difference between making images in b&w and color and being a master of both . I can only ditto the above from Merg and Kirk, it just doesn't work out. History has shown this time and time again. I haven't seen the Barnbaum book but judging from the rainbow image on the front page of his website there would be no way I would buy the book.

[Nathan Potter]

J Fada, yes that is what I was thinking. Maybe it is asking too much of any photographer to be a master of both. Perhaps Eliot Porter comes close but those others mentioned above are more second tier I feel when looking for excellence in both mediums. I greatly like Richard Misrachs color style and compositions; his synthesis of color with design is a style I can recognize as his. Don't know his B&W work though.

I think I tend to agree more with Merg and Kirk on the difficulty of merging the two mediums, or trying to work in both. Learning to see the essence of an image and fusing it with ones own vision is so difficult that working in B&W and color just doesn't happen. When we achieve mastery in one of the mediums we are trapped with a skill we do not want to abandon because that method of expression seems complete.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Eric Rose]

All my serious "expressive" work is in B&W. It's the way I see. On the other hand almost all of my commercial work is in colour. Two totally different venues. Some would look at my some of my colour work and say it's "art". To me it's just money in the bank. I don't get excited over someone liking one of my commercial images. However if they gush over one of my B&W's I get weak in the knees lol.

[Kirk Gittings]

All my serious "expressive" work is in B&W. It's the way I see. On the other hand almost all of my commercial work is in colour. Two totally different venues. Some would look at my some of my colour work and say it's "art". To me it's just money in the bank. I don't get excited over someone liking one of my commercial images. However if they gush over one of my B&W's I get weak in the knees lol.

Me too-all my commercial work is color and all my personal work in b&w. Every once in awhile I get crazy and do a personal color image but when I get it home its just dead to me. Other people don't understand my dichotomy with this but for me it is very real.

[Merg Ross]

Me too-all my commercial work is color and all my personal work in b&w. Every once in awhile I get crazy and do a personal color image but when I get it home its just dead to me. Other people don't understand my dichotomy with this but for me it is very real.

That is also exactly the way it worked for me.

I was thinking back to my early trips in the field with Brett Weston. We worked quite often around Mono Lake at the time he was shooting Ektachrome, with the hope of perhaps a commercial sale. He would always expose the black and white holder first, and then make an exposure on the Ektachrome film. The results were stunning in black and white and mediocre at best in color. Very few persons were to witness the results, and the color was always hastily disposed of.

Anyone can photograph in both color or black and white; being familiar with the work of those mentioned in this thread so far, their finest work was either in color or black and white. My friend Steve Mulligan is one example, there are many more. I rest my case.

[Alan Curtis]

My friend Jim Bones began his career studying with Russel Lee, where worked with B&W for many years. I believe he switched to color for commercial reasons. When he became Elliot Porters assistant he became quite skilled in Dye Transfer printing, he told me that he felt that he had as much control of the final print with Dye Transfer as he did with B&W photography. He completely abandoned B&W. His color was superior to the black and white.

[Brian Ellis]

I think it's possible to work in one medium (say b&w) for a long time, then decide to switch to color and immerse one's self in color for a long time, ultimately producing color work that was the equal of the earlier b&w. But I don't think it's possible to frequently switch back and forth and back and forth more or less as the mood strikes and/or as assignments are received, and produce equally compelling work in both. Possibly someone who's very talented and who has done that frequently over a long period of time can become so adept in both that they can do it successfully but I think it's very unusual.

[Kirk Gittings]

My friend Jim Bones began his career studying with Russel Lee, where worked with B&W for many years. I believe he switched to color for commercial reasons. When he became Elliot Porters assistant he became quite skilled in Dye Transfer printing, he told me that he felt that he had as much control of the final print with Dye Transfer as he did with B&W photography. He completely abandoned B&W. His color was superior to the black and white.

Thats a name I haven't heard in many years. Where is he these days and what is he up to?

[Alan Curtis]

Thats a name I haven't heard in many years. Where is he these days and what is he up to?

Kirk
I worked with Jim in the 80's and 90's. We taught several LF work shops in the Santa Fe and Abiquiu area. He invested heavily (went into debt) in Dye Transfer materials when Kodak announced they were discontinuing those materials, sound familiar?
He left Tesuque around 2000 moving to Alpine, TX. He is still involved with photography but, I don't believe it is at the same scale as in NM. I heard that he got rid of all his LF equipment. I think he is more involved with video and small format photography.
I have not been in contact with him for several years, unfortunately. I really enjoyed working with him, he is highly skilled artist and an excellent teacher.
Did you know him?

[tgtaylor]

In my opinion the true "master" photographer is one that is fluent in several different photographic syntax’s with the silver gelatin (or color) process being but one syntax. The photographers mentioned in this thread, although masters of one or maybe two of the syntax's, were not masters of the medium.

Thomas

[Kirk Gittings]

Kirk
I worked with Jim in the 80's and 90's. We taught several LF work shops in the Santa Fe and Abiquiu area. He invested heavily (went into debt) in Dye Transfer materials when Kodak announced they were discontinuing those materials, sound familiar?
He left Tesuque around 2000 moving to Alpine, TX. He is still involved with photography but, I don't believe it is at the same scale as in NM. I heard that he got rid of all his LF equipment. I think he is more involved with video and small format photography.
I have not been in contact with him for several years, unfortunately. I really enjoyed working with him, he is highly skilled artist and an excellent teacher.
Did you know him?

He was an acquaintance-not really a friend. He was/is a fine photographer. The last project I saw of his was a DT portfolio on the historic Camino Real, but that was many many years ago. He kind of dropped off the map.

[Wayne Lambert]

Seems as if I read/heard recently that he is involved in a project to install geologic road signs in west Texas.
Wayne

[Doug Howk]

Kirk Tuck at Visual Science Lab blog (http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/12/has-our-almost-complete-adaptation-to.html) describes the color vs B&W as two different approaches. Have not seen Barnbaum's color book but would be very surprised if it matched his B&W work. I suspect many of us are technically proficient in both, but we achieve art in the media/subject/genre that we love.

[Drew Wiley]

There are various reasons why art photographers might concentrate on one but not
the other based on what's trending or not, what's being funded or not, what's affordable, etc. I still totally disagree with the notion one cannot truly master both.
You're telling me that artists who could be brilliant with color can't do great work
with pencil or an etching? Guess that leaves Guernica off the map. Why would it be
any different with photograhers? ... Anyway, next whatever ... J.Bones sold off all
his DT gear last yr, or at least tried to. A few of these guys are still bitter over Kodak dropping it. Most of the gear seems to get snatched right up by somebody.