Getting started with Pyro HD, TMX and Jobo 3006

[tschoenb]

Long time lurker here... I have soaked up a ton of information from you all and would first like to thank you for such a wonderful community and resource.

I just finished setting up my new darkroom and am now preparing to run my film tests. I have things tentatively planned but still have a few questions (I've never used the Jobo or Pyro before.)

What rotation speed should I set the Jobo to? With reversal?
Pyro HD dilution for diffusion head elargement 1:1 or 1:2 or 2:2?
I have a 3006 tank, will 450ml (75ml per sheet) work?
When I load the tank, the emulsion side should face inward?
How do I keep track of which negative is which ASA?

Processing for EI:
- presoak for 2 min (Should I be using distilled water here? Should this be done with agitation?)
- developer (What is a good starting time with Pyro HD and TMX at 68`F? 8 min? 9 min?)
- stop bath (water or stop bath? for 1 minute. Should this be done with agitation?)
- fix (TF4 fix for 6 minutes)
- after bath (Gordon Hutchings recommended soaking back in the PMK developer to maximize image stain; is this relevant with HD formulations?)
- wash (what do you do for washing with the Jobo?)
- wetting agent (what do you use and how do you use it in a Jobo?)

For the EI I am looking for .1-.2 above FB+F with the blue filter on the densitometer correct?

Any other tips before I get started?

Thanks in advance,
Todd

[Robert Ley]

Todd,
Here are my answers to your questions, others may disagree:
Use the slowest rotation speed, on my CPA it is 3
You are really going to have to run some tests, but 1:1 or 2:2 will work with different times of course. I found with the new Tmax 400 and Pyrocat HD my times are 10min at 2:2:100 at 24degC and of course your times my vary. You can get good ball park starting time here: http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php
I mix my developer in distilled water, but use tap water for all the rest of the steps. Agitate with all steps, pre-wash, developer(obviously) stop(I use plan water) and fix.
I have been using the tank to wash my negatives and it also gives the Jobo Lift a good rinsing too.

I have standardized my B&W developing temperature to 75degF.24degC because I can maintain that temperature year around. 68 is too hard to maintain in the summer as the coldest my tap water in the summer is about 73-74deg.

You can use photflo or whatever you please but don't put it into the tank or dip your reels in if you are processing roll film. Jobo does not recommend getting that stuff on there equipment.

The film should be loaded with the emulsion facing inwards.

With the Jobo tanks there is no pulling a neg out before they are all done so one EI film per load.

I should think that 450ml of developer should work fine for 6 sheets, but more certainly won't hurt.

The more that you process film, the more you will be changing your procedure until you find what works best for you. There certainly is no one right way to process film and it is not rocket science and you will certainly make mistakes that hopefully you will learn from, so get in that new darkroom and process some film. We are all waiting to see how you make out;)

[Andrew O'Neill]

No. An after bath in pyrocat-hd is not necessary (I'm assuming you are using pyrocat-hd... I'm a bit confused as to which one you want to use...) and I thought I heard that Mr. Hutchings no longer recommends it with his PMK, but I could be mistaken. All an after bath does is raise the base+fog stain.

[frotog]

I'm not sure about pyrocat HD but most other formulas i've used (including rollo pyro) oxidize like crazy in a Jobo and will leave you with a high base fog. PMK, my favorite, really benefits from a blanket of nitrogen gas. This is not as difficult as it may seem.

[ic-racer]

What rotation speed should I set the Jobo to? --50/min ("P")

With reversal? -- Yes

How do I keep track of which negative is which ASA? -- I'd develop my EI test negatives one at a time in a 2820.

presoak for 2 min Should I be using distilled water here? -- Some film manufacturers don't recommend a pre-soak.

Should this be done with agitation? Do you mean with the drum spinning? Yes

developer What is a good starting time with Pyro HD and TMX at 68`F? 8 min? 9 min? --- unless your room temp is lower than 68 degrees or you have a CPP2 you won't be able to process that low with a table top Jobo processor.

- stop bathwater or stop bath? for 1 minute. Should this be done with agitation?-- Dilute acetic acid for one minute with the drum rolling.

wash what do you do for washing with the Jobo? -- After ammonia thiosulfate fix I use one min wash then one min PermaWash then 3 changes of 500ml water at 1,2 and 3 minutes all with the drum spinning.

wetting agent what do you use and how do you use it in a Jobo? -- I dip each 4x5 negative in a tray of PhotoFlo then hang to dry.

[jeroldharter]

I don't use pyro but:

For the wash step, run at least 4 rounds of tap water through the lift and into the rotating drum. That cleans the machine while washing your film. I then move the film to a separate film washer, but if you give enough time and fill/dumps on the Jobo you can complete washing on the machine.

The main nuisance of a Jobo is that the entire batch of film in the drum has to be processed for the same time. So for different SBR's or N's etc. you need multiple drums or else you need to clean and dry (thoroughly!) you existing drum for re-use.

Never put photo-flo in a Jobo anything. It can gum up the works. Just fill a small processing tray with photo-flo (I use distilled water for this). Pull the sheet from the 3006, dip it in the tray of photo-flo, and then hang to dry.

When I load the drums, I feel for the film notch, put that in the upper right corner so the the emulsion is facing me, cup the film from behind, and then insert it in the drum. The emulsion will be facing the center of the drum. With the 3006, you put one sheet into each cylinder. If you get a 3010, you put 2 sheets into each cylinder which has ridges as dividers. If you are not careful you could scratch the first sheet with the corner of the second sheet as you insert it.

I would tend to maximize, not minimize, the volume of developer. The limit for Jobo is 1000 ml. This is especially true with diluted one shot developers and developers that oxidize rapidly like pyro. Minimizing the volume is a false economy.

Living where you do, you might want to standardize on a temperature higher than 68 as mentioned. If not, you can use freezer packs to cool the water bath a bit. You can also freeze a water filled Jobo bottle and put it in one of the slots. If you do that, under fill the bottle so it does not balloon out when frozen because the ballooned bottle won't fit. Don't use ice cubes. I have heard that they melt to a small size and then get sucked in by the pump and burn up the motor. The CPP has a cold water solenoid but I was too stupid to figure that out and some places don't have cold enough tap water to make it work.

[Peter De Smidt]

I process at 75F, which is always warmer than my darkroom.

For large format film, and barring special circumstances, I start with the drum rotating at P, and 30 seconds into development turn it down to the lowest setting. Whatever you do, consistency is key.

I don't use the lift handle to raise the drum. This is a notorious weak spot in the design. Instead, I grab the end of the lift submerged in the water bath. I raise the drum up, drain, and lower it right when the motor reverses, which is easy to hear. This minimizes wear on the gears.

I've never seen any benefit to using a presoak when processing bw film. (Color is a different story with it's higher temps.) As a result, I don't use one.

[don mishler]

when I bought my Jobo many moons ago I purchased several of the newsletters Jobo was then putting out. I based my pyro dev on the following article by Chuck Farmmer that was in one of them
http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/jq/jq9502.htm#UPCF

all the newsletters are now available online and are a great resource....... here is a link to them

http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/jq/

[tschoenb]

Thank you all for the help.

Except for the first batch being mixed at 10:10:100 and the lid popping off the 3006 on the second, everything went well... I think.

My EI looks to be 100 for TMX in Pyro HD, which seems high to me. Perhaps a slow shutter.

Thanks again,
Todd

[Bob McCarthy]

About prewash, I do 2 for about 30-40 seconds each with more water than minimum. I'm trying to not only get the drum and film to process temp, but also remove as much of the AH dye that I can.

10:10:100 must have created some "interesting" negatives. I use iso 100 with PyrocatHD also so your in the ballpark.

bob