New from the Netherlands

[Steven Scanner]

Hello,

my name is Steven and I'm 38 years old. I don't own a LF camera but I'm making one from scratch.
Actually, it's a LF scanner camera. Basically a LF camera with a flatbed scanner behind.
I've found this thread about a scanner camera for more information and inspiration.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59800&page=5&highlight=scanner+camera

Right now I've got a makeshift camera, made from two cardboard boxes inside eachother. One box has got a magnifying glass in the center, the other has got a big square hole in the bottom where the scanner is placed.

[BrianShaw]

Interesting. Welcome to the forum.

[Steven Scanner]

Thank you BrainShaw.
Here is a picture from the makeshift camera.
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2481.jpg

This picture is made with a flatbed scanner/printer with the camera laying on top of the glass scanner plate. A mirror on top of that changes the direction of the image from vertical to horizontal
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/Scan3.jpg

The horizontal lines are there because the scanner uses the pinhole camera lens construction as a fixed focus. A scanner only have to focus on images flat on the glass plate. The image created by the camera is not flat.
The vinget around the image is also a byproduct from the pinhole priciple. The scanner wants light to come straight in the pinhole. In the middle of the created image the light comes straight down, but when you go further towards the edges, the light comes at an angle. At some point this angle is going to be in a way the pinhole can't let light thrue to the electronic eye.
The overall image has got false light from the scanner light. In a perfect scan, the pinhole is removed and the light inside the scanner is disabled. As for now, it works. There are many ways to change the image, with alteration of both hardware and software, up to the point of extremely high resolution full color pictures.

[manet]

Welcome aboard Steven.
Interesting experience.

[Steven Scanner]

Thank you Manet.

Progress is going slowly but steady. I've made two bellows. One square shaped, the other pyramid shaped.
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2830.jpg
This is the pyramid one. I've used paper because I don't have all the dimentions right. When the camera is made, I'll make a propper fabric and cardboard bellows.
I know many of you use existing LF camera's to make "real" photographs. For me, this project is about trying to figure out how the camera works and using alternative materials. I've recently found a 8cm diameter magnifying glass with a focal length of about 30cm. Depth of field is about 10cm when focussed on an object about 1 meter away. (I'm not shure if I used the proper terminology, almost all is learned from Wikipedia :) )
For what I've learned is, in order to make the DOF longer, I need an aperture. Next, I think I'm going to make a mechanical iris. I've made a cardboard one before, but that one malfunctioned.
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2483.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2482.jpg

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

New from the Netherlands

Most welcome to this international group with many European contributors !

Anything coming from the Netherlands should deserve the attention of the Large Format & Silver Gelatin addict:
News from the Netherlands (http://www.rousselot.com/en/news-events/news-item/post/vion-food-group-takes-over-eastman-gel-from-eastman-kodak-company/show.html)

[rdenney]

Your cardboard diaphragm is quite interesting. A couple of points to note: When you put a diaphragm at in front of or behind a simple lens, the focus will change as you close the aperture. You'll need to check focus at the aperture you will use for the photograph.

Also, out-of-focus details will assume the shape of the diaphragm opening. Your cardboard diaphragm looks quite good at larger openings, but becomes a little irregular at small openings. If that bothers you (and it may not), you might consider using your adjustable one to find the aperture that works best, and then make a fixed stop with a simple round hole of the correct diameter. These were the standard stops used in the early days of photography to keep things mechanically simple.

Please keep us up to date on your progress. Many of us will be interested to follow it even if we don't say so.

Rick "good luck" Denney

[Steven Scanner]

I know the scanner camera is a bit of the beaten track and may have not got a lot to do with Large Format Photography, but the principle remains the same. 500+ viewers tell me a lot are interested. A bit of feedback is appreciated but not mandatory.

I know the shape of the opening is of influence of the image. It's the same effect a solar eclipse creates on tree leaves. I'm trying to make the diaphragm as circular as possible. I'd expect I don't need a small diaphragm opening. Probably not smaller than 1/2". I'll keep the fixed stop option in mind.

I want to place the diaphragm behind the lens. Does it matter where it goes? In front or behind the lens? Does the distance bitween lens and diaphragm have influance?

[Marc B.]

For aperture or diaphragm, it will probably be easier to make and use "waterhouse stops," placed towards the rear of the lens.
Simply, different pieces of card stock, each with a different size hole, slid into a slot.
Sort of like sliding a credit card in a gas/petrol pump. Just another idea for you.
Marc

Example

http://images.powerhousemuseum.com/images/zoomify/TLF_mediums/99286.jpg

Rotary version

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$%28KGrHqIOKokE32mz93cbBN-f2CP3,g~~_35.JPG

[Steven Scanner]

Thank you for the easier way to make an aperture. The waterhouse stop will be my second choice, if the diaphragm doesn't work. The rotary version looks easier to use. Just turn the wheel instead of removing one card and replacing it with another.

[Marc B.]

Steven,
When designing anything, we have a saying, (here in the States anyway), called the KISS principle:
"Keep It Simple, Stupid." <grin>

I have often found, any device designed as simple as possible, usually not only lasts longer, but is easier and cheaper to manufacture.

Wish you the best as you proceed with your project. Please keep us updated with your progress.

Marc

[Steven Scanner]

Marc,

it's not the destination, but the journey. :)

[chharris]

Warm Welcome to this forum and hope to have informative posts by you.

[Steven Scanner]

I've made a mechanical iris yesterday. Here are the pictures:
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2849.jpg
One blade with pushpins for joints

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2848.jpg

One pushpin on each side
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2847.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2847.jpg
one end of the blades goes into 6 tiny holes in the bottom rim.

[Steven Scanner]

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2846.jpg
The other end of the blades slides into the slots in the middle rim.

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2845.jpg
The top rim holds everything in place, ( top and botttom rim should be connected with a side panel.
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2844.jpg
Mechanical iris half open

[Steven Scanner]

Mock up of the camera.
I went for a technical camera because I want to experiment with tilt and shift. It's not 100% acurate, but close enough to fiddle about with. It's bulky enough to keep the camera in the position I want it to be.

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2989.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2988.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_2987.jpg

Next up, sanding and painting (staining). The bellows are to short and need a little ajustment in the overall shape but that's for later.

[Steven Scanner]

Sanded, painted and finished (for now)
This is what it looks like:
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_3048.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_3050.jpg

This is what the GG showed:
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_3051.jpg

This is what the scan showed:
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/outside.jpg
For some reason, in the scan the tree looks on fire. I used the mechanical iris and it reduced the light, but not enough. It might be over exposed but it could also be the light of the scanner reflecting on the lens.

I did capture a moving object! On the left hand side of the "flaming" tree, there are two trees, than something that looks like a little pole. It is actually a light shaded car going in the reverse direction from the scan. This shortens the vehicle. With some imagination you can see the flattened wheels and the side windows.

[Steve Smith]

I've made a mechanical iris yesterday.

Excellent. Here is one I made to explain the principle at a camera club meeting.


Steve.

[Steven Scanner]

Even when you know how it's made, it still looks magical when it opens and closes.

[BetterSense]

It sounds like you need a way to remove the light source from the scanner.

[Steven Scanner]

That's the problem BetterSense, it seems on this scanner the light source is integrated in the part that scans. It's a cheap second had scanner, a Lifetec LT 9385. Taking out the light sourse and distroying the scanner isn't a big deal, but that would mean I should go for another scanner.
Another downside with this scanner is that it only works on my Win98 PC. And only when it's connected to the USB connection at the front of the pc. I bought this scanner because it didn't need extra power, just USB. My plan was to go outside with the scanner camera and laptop and take pictures, without extra power. The Win98 pc and the powersource it all needs, limits my outdoor activities.
I guess in a short period of time, I have to look for another scanner. But not after I had a bit more experimenting with this one.

[Steven Scanner]

I'm using the camera for a side project, anthotype. After one day of winter daylight exposure no result. Also nothing on a contact sheet exposure. I'm giving it a couple of days more untill my tripod is finished.

I think I'm going for waterhouse stops, the mechanical iris works okay, but rather bulky and not acurate. As you all know, this project is kind of "scrapheap challange" with the use of alternative materials. For the waterhouse stops I think I'm going to use black plastic coasters. The lens is 80mm so I need a relative large area to cover. Something like jar lids might work to. Next weekend I'm going hunting for parts.

[zenny]

@Steve: How is this project going? Any updates with the outcomes (including pictures)? Curious to learn.

As for the light source, maybe sticking a black tape over the led light source might help. Just guessing.

/zenny

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[Steven Scanner]

It's been a while since I've played around with the scanner camera.
Right now it looks like this:
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_3457.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/IMG_3458.jpg
The tripod is not finished, it needs stronger plates that hold the ball joint. And the legs need a way to stay in place.
Either UV or IR light interfears with the scanner. It keeps on over-exposing when shooting outdoors.
Artificial light works perfectly.
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/schatje5.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/Steampunk/schatje4.jpg
The light inside the scanner doesn't really bother the exposure. As a matter a fact, it helps when making pictures like above. When I see the light thru the lens, I know it has scanned my eye and it's time to move to another pose.

Anthotype via camera didn't work. Not enough time and light to form an image. I did manage to get an anthotype image on a sheet-on-paper sunlight exposure. What I did try with the camera is using luminescent stars. You know, the plastic stars you can decorate a kids bedroom with, that luminates after exposure to light. I did get a shaded blurry image, but I think the plastic is to thick to capture an acurate image. I might try luminescent paint on a cardboard or plywood sheet.

The next 3 weeks I have the weeks off. I'm planning on going to a photo-store where they sell all kinds of stuff for 35mm developing and printing. Perhaps they have something I can use to take pictures with.