View Full Version : 12" Dagor Lens shutters

John Kasaian
25-Oct-2003, 11:04
The 5x7 Pre-Anniversary Speed Graphic arrived. I'd like to put a shuttered lens on her, since I'm not too sure of the accuracy of the 75 years young focal plane shutter. The subject will be the winter landscape and I'll be shooting handheld, useing ski poles or maybe even skis as an aid to steady-ness.(well, its an option, anyway) I have both a 203 f7.7 Ektar and a 14" f9 APO Artar in shutters, waiting for a home. My concern with the Artar is 1) its wieght as it is a brass one and 2) it's speed, since I'll be shooting handheld I want to avoid long exposure times. The 203 Ektar, I expect, will be a real champ but I'd like a longer focal length too. Jim Galli's recommendation for a 14" Claron sounds good, but they seem scarcer than straight-tailed pigs in a football factory. 12" Dagors seem to appear more often. Can anyone tell me what size shutters I can expect to find a dagor in? This is important since it would have to fit in a folded up Speeder. Also, for those of you with more experienced with 5x7, how significant is the difference in the field of view between a 8"(my 203mm) and a 11-3/4 or 12" Dagor? Is it worth carting around an extra lens? I ask because in 8x10 format(which I'm more familiar with) the difference between a 12" and a 14" lens isn't IMHO worth having another lens in the stable, but the diference between a 14" and a 10" is considerable. Another option would be to take the 300 Nikkor off the aerial camera and mount it on a graflex "C" board, but when it comes time to put the lens back on the aerial camera, refocusing to infinity would be a hassle of the greatest magnitude. Also could anyone recommend a tripod heavy enough to hold a light 5x7(the Speeder) yet light and small enough to carry in a daypack? Does such a critter exist? Any tips to keep the tripod legs from submarining in the snow besides snowshoes? Thanks for any and all advise, speculation, and war stories!

David A. Goldfarb
25-Oct-2003, 11:12
The 12" Dagor is likely to be in an Ilex 4 shutter or possibly Copal 3. I use a barrel mount 12" Dagor on the front of an Ilex 5 and have plenty of room for 8x10", though I'm tempted to have it remounted conventionally with the shutter in the middle to get more coverage on 11x14".

Jim Galli
25-Oct-2003, 11:39
Hi John. My 12" Dagor is in an Ilex 4. It's a pretty big lens. Happily it's one that went through the Burke & James "coated later" mill and has single coating inconsistent with it's age. A bonus I hadn't planned on when I bought it. I'll bet you'll get that big flap shutter working which will open the door to all kinds of barrel lenses. I bought an APO f9 Tessar a couple of months ago for about a C note and it's incredible. The Kodak 13" Copying Ektanon is a tiny little thing and sharp as hell. Oops. About one stop rarer than the Repro Claron. BTW the 420 repro Claron is the same size as the 355 exactly. It's about #2 or 3 on my favorite list. Gets used a BUNCH. Even in 5X7.

neil poulsen
25-Oct-2003, 13:44
After the war began with Germany, many of the Americal Dagors were mounted in Rapax shutters. I don't have actually dimensions, but my coated 7" Dagor was mounted in a rather compact Rapax shutter.

Bill Jefferson
25-Oct-2003, 15:29
John, since the 203 Ektar covers 5x7 try that firat and see if you like the results

Leonard Robertson
25-Oct-2003, 18:04
My 5X7 Speed is an early top-handle with 3 3/4" square lensboard. My 12" Series III Dagor in #4 Acme shutter isn't mounted on that size board, but from the measurements I've done, it looks like the door on the Speed will just close with the lens on the camera. It is so close, I doubt if there is room for a lens cap or series adapter ring. Your Speed or another series Dagor may be enough different that the combination won't work. My Dagor in shutter on a metal Pacemaker board weighs 1 pound 8 ounces. Is your 14" Artar much heavier than that? As far as the f9 speed of your Artar, that is less than 2/3 stop dimmer than your f7.7 Ektar, so focusing shouldn't be too bad, unless the light is really bad. According to one chart I have, 203mm on 5X7 is the same as 286mm on 8X10, 297.5mm on 5X7 is the same as 420mm on 8X10, and 340mm on 5X7 equals 480mm on 8X10. So your 14" Artar is "longer" than the 19" often used on 8X10 format. I have heard of using thin plywood sheets under each tripod leg as "snowshoes", but I've never tried it myself, so I don't know how well it really works.

John Kasaian
25-Oct-2003, 23:07
Thanks guys! I'm looking at a #4 Ilex shutter right now---I seriously doubt that it would fit with the camera folded. Oh well, on to plan "B"

Has anyone ever heard of putting the plastic baskets used on ski poles on the pointy ends of tripod legs? I might have to try this out if I can find a suitable(and cheap)light, compact tripod that'll hold the 5x7. If I do I'll report my findings!

26-Oct-2003, 05:26
I'd recommend getting your focal plane shutter tested. I have a 4x5 Anniversary and was surprised that the speeds were consistant enough to use. You may be surprised, too, giving you more options.

Jim Galli
26-Oct-2003, 19:11
John, Bogen makes "snow shoes!" (http://db.manfrotto.com/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=4&itemid=355) I have some and they're great for snow and sand dunes too. jg