Where can I get Phenisol?

[Michael Mutmansky]

Greetings group,

I was reading through some Ilford Ortho literature, and noticed a mention of a developer called Phenisol, which is an ultra high contrast developer used for X-Ray film, I believe.

However, I have found little information on this ddeveloper anywhere, and I have not found it listed at the large photo retailers. A call to my local Ilford dealer indicates that it is not in their catalogue, so it must be considered an industrial/scientific product, rather than a consumer/professional product.

So, does anyone know where I can get some of this developer? If I can't get the developer, is there a suitable formula out there for it? It's my impression that it may be higher contrast than D-19, maybe more like D-11?

---Michael

[Nick_3536]

Okay I'll ask a potentially stupid question. If you want a high contrast Ortho film what do you gain choosing Ilford Ortho over Freestyle Lith APHS?

[Michael Mutmansky]

Nick,

You know, I don't really know, except that there may be improved tonality in the Ilford Ortho. Of course, Ilford doesn't make a litho film, so that is another reason that they may be trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

One thing is that the APHS film is not intended to be a continuous film, and the Ortho film is, so there could be substantial differences between the two response curves, and also the smoothness that these films transition through the densities.

The Ortho literature was showing a gamma as high as 1.8 with this developer, which is quite high, and if the tonality remains acceptable, then it could be very useful for alt printers. Since FP-4 and Ortho are very similar, I was thinking that it might be possible to achieve a much better gradient with a developer like Phenisol that will be suitable for pt/pd printing.

I don't use the Ortho for the internegative, only for the interpositive, where it works well. But, I'm aiming for a negative DR of about .9 to .8 as the target. For the internegative, I use APHS, and have to hold it back to keep it from going too contrasty.

---Michael

[Michael J. Kravit]

Michael,

FP4 processed in D-19 straight (12 min.) will give you an excellent density range I can regularly get a DR of 1.8 to 2.4 with little effort, but sometimes have to up some D-11 or D-8.

I have also run Ilford Ortho+ through D19, and D-11 and the results are very similar to FP4.

Are you not getting good results with APHS and PMK? I have backed away from APHS and PMK due to uneven development at times. With Ilford Ortho+ for my interpositive I use Ilford DDX and with FP4 for my 16x20 enblarged negs I use D-19 or D-11....and very rarely D-8.

Mike

[Michael Mutmansky]

Michael,

No, still using APHS, but I never used that nasty PMK stuff. Too much uneven staining, etc. I have used pyrocat HD for the APHS developer with good success, but I am working on a new formulation that I think is even better. Too early to tell what the results will be, though.

I was thinking more about the developer for in camera negatives, not for internegatives. I have the formulas for D19 and D11, but what is D8? Is is a hydroquinone only developer?

What is the maximum gamma you can get with FP4 and D11 or D19? That is the real issue for me, as I am thinking of low contrast situations where I want to get up to 1.8 or so DR.

---Michael

[Doremus Scudder]

Here's the D-8 formula fwiw:

Kodak D-8

For Very High Contrast on Films and Plates

Stock Solution

Water, about 32° Celsius (90° F.) 750 ml

Sodium Sulfite, desiccated 90 g

Hydroquinone 45 g

Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda) 37.5 g

Potassium Bromide 30 g

Water to make 1 liter

Dissolve chemicals in the order given. Stir the solution thoroughly before use. For use, take 2 parts of stock solution and 1 part of water. Develop about 2 minutes in a tray at 20 Celsius (68 degrees F.). For general use, a developer which is slightly less alkaline and gives almost as much density can be obtained by using 28 g per liter instead of the quantity given in this formula.

[Michael Mutmansky]

Doremus,

Thanks for the formula, I'll have to try it out sometime.

In the final sentence, you said "using 28g per liter instead of the quantity given in this formula". Did you mean 28g of sodium hydroxide?

I think this is essentially a lith developer? It's my understanding that a hydroquinone-only formula like this will have infectious development because the byproduct of the initial development reaction is another hydroquinone molecule variant.

---Michael