E6 on a budget.

[Paul Kierstead]

I am just beginning my journey in LF. I have the camera ordered, a couple of lenses, etc. Soon I want to stop thinking about equipment end figure out how to the the thing. Then comes processing.

Now while I live in an area of 800,000+ people, the photography industry here seems strangely underdeveloped. E6 processing of 4x5 is EXPENSIVE. I don't want to feel guilty every time I take a shot. On top of that, it is difficult for me to drive to the lab and get back in the day times and evenings are mostly out. So it got me thinking about developing my own.

I priced out chemicals (The Kodak 6-bath kit; it seems very expensive to get the Tetenal kit into Canada, shipping is a killer). I will save upwards (I figure) of $2/tranny if I used something like a Jobo with 270ml/6 trannies. But the Jobo CPE-2 + bits and pieces will set me back a lot; it will take at least (very minimum) 400 trannies to recoup the cost. I am not prepared for that just yet; I am a recreational shooter and still shoot smaller formats too; it will take quite a while to burn that much.

I read the article "E6 on a budget" on this site. I was not encouraged.

So what are the alternatives? Lets say I buy/make a tempering box. Then I need something to develop them in. A rolling tube saves a lot of chemicals over an inversion system so seems like the best option. How about the Jobo Tube in one of their stands where you roll it by hand? Anyone every try this? Slight colour casts don't bother me since they can be corrected out easily enough, but colour cross-over is not acceptable. Obviously contrast/exposure will need to be "on".

I guess I am looking at suggestions for cheap, low chemical volume, not extremely painful, daylight options for E6. Or to just be told I am crazy and just visit one of the stupid labs.

[Pete Caluori]

Greetings,

I use a Jobo to do E6, but I understand your desire to this inexpensively. First, I'd like to offer that you consider a used Jobo processor, which can be found on eBay. Also, consider the 3 bath E6 chemistry, which will save you time in processing and mixing. The 3 bath chemistry offers the same quality trannies, but with limited flexibility. With 6 bath you can tweak the process with much greater control, but the 3 bath works perfectly well.

Temperature control is critical with E6 and the most important step is the first bath as it will set your overall exposure and contrast. I have heard of someone using a Combi Tank to do E6, but this person lives in a very hot climate, where it's easier to control the temperature. If you can keep a tempered water bath at 38C (~100F) and keep the chemistry at the same temperature, then you should be able to use a Combi tank too. You'll use much more chemistry that a rotary type processor, but it should be possible. Personally, considering the cost of E6 films and the cost of chemistry, you would be much better off acquiring a Jobo processor. Good luck!

Regards, Pete

[Jim Galli]

Paul, I think I can help. I process E6 in a Jobo 2500 series tank that takes 6 4X5 sheets. 2509? I fill a washtub with water at about 115 degrees and put all of the chems in their bottles into the bath and go do something else. In time, 20 min or so everything will equalize and drop to 100 degrees. I usually start at 101+ or so and by the time 6 minutes is up I'm down to 99+. If it begins to drop too fast I run hot tap water into the bath to bring it back up. I simply roll the Jobo tank in the bath by hand. I can't afford the CPP either. I buy Agfa kits from this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=629&item=2958376468) guy here. He always has them. You get two 500ml kits for $20. He's in Canada so shipping to you would be fast I think. Gets to me fast in the states. I can process 18 sheets in the 500ml kit. 12 is reccomended but a third "roll" in the tank with added time works fine. So that's 36 films for $20 bucks. Doesn't get much cheaper than that. Your mileage may vary of course. Start with some OOD film from feebay and give it a whirl.

[Paul Kierstead]

Jim, Pete, Thanks for the responses!

I am not considering the 3-bath process as I have not yet found a Canadian distributor and importing it is very expensive (at B&H shipping is higher then the chemicals...). I can get the Kodak kit fairly economically. The Agfa kit that Jim mentions looks hopeful too.

On your recommendation, I had a quick survey of eBay. It looks like CPP/CPA processors are still pretty expensive but CPE's can go for quite cheap, so I will have a good look at that. If that fails, I might give Jim's method a try. Might even look at keeping the water heated a little to make it a little easier.

One question I have concerns chemistry lifetime. Looking at Kodak's listing, they say mixed chemicals are good for 1 week/4 weeks with nitrogen. How about the unmixed chemicals? If they are kept in collapsible bottles or ones with floating lids, how is the lifetime after opening? Even outside the Jobo, I consider this one of the main possible problems. I am guessing I will run about 12 sheets periodically....just guessing, but I can't see pushing a lot of film through, especially at certain times of the year (like now!).

Again, thanks for the help.

[Michael Dowdall]

The best price that I know of for the AGFA kit is $9.00 us plus $6.00 shipping. From http://www.colba.net/~fotochem/index.htm. They're located in Quebec so no import duties just sales taxes. Is the Kodak kit less? Where can you get it in Canada?

[John O'Connell]

Jim has the right idea. A tempering bath using an aquarium heater and a JOBO 2500 series tank is the way to go. You roll the tank on top of the tempering bath and you keep the rest of your chemical containers tempered with the same bath. It's the same as the JOBO processor without the motor or lift, and you save $500. Be sure you don't use too little solution for the number of sheets you do at one time, and consider using the E6 chemicals one shot to keep things simpler and more consistent.

The solution to the keeping problem of the chemicals is simple. Shoot until you have enough sheets for an entire kit and then process them all, or just toss some of the unused chemicals when they get old. But between extra sheets on exceptional subject matter, extra sheets in dusty conditions, bracketing, the occasional mistake, and tests for your first run, it'll be quite easy to finish enough sheets to make the processing cost effective.

I will say, however, that I've given up on processing my own E6 since I switched to 8x10. Personally I've found I prefer getting my slides back in 3 hours from a pro lab than being my own E6 robot.

[Nick_3536]

I don't know where you are in Canada but the Agfa kit is actually pretty cheap just from the local shops here in Toronto. But the Kodak E-6 5litre kit is very cheap if you need that much. For the cost of four or five agfa 500ml kits I think you could get the Kodak 5litre kit. The only issue is will you use the stuff up before it goes bad. The other thing is the chemicals are relatively cheap. Who sells cheap colour film? C41 or E-6.

[Pete Caluori]

Paul, having used the Kodak E6 kit, the unmixed chemistry will keep 6 to 9 months, but you can't simply cap them. I spray nitrogen, or Jobo's Protectan into the unused portion, place a small square of Saran wrap over the mouth of the bottle and replace the cap. Saran brand warp is one of the plastic wraps for food that has a vapor barrier; I don't know about other brands. The chemicals for the first developer need the most protection as they will oxidize with time.

Regards, Pete

[Mark Sampson]

Your basic problem is that the only market for E-6 these days is professional (and shrinking). The pros require the highest quality processing (it is their livelihood) and they charge the client for the processing, plus a significant markup. But it's possible to get good results doing it yourself, it's just necessary to be careful and consistent. A large-format transparency on the lightbox is a beautiful thing...

[Alan Davenport]

I, too, worried about the cost of processing when I took the leap into large format. What I've discovered, is that the introspective and time consuming process of large format photography has made me much more careful about what I shoot. The result has been that the percentage of "keepers" is much higher than I ever got with 35mm, and I doubt if the overall cost (per "keeper") is much higher if at all. Not to mention the intrinsic value of the large format experience, which is surely worth something. IOW: yes you'll spend much more per exposure, but you won't waste as much film and processing...

[Jeff Lentz]

Just out of curiosity how much does your local lab want for a sheet of E6. My local lab does it for $1.50 - Next day. Their C41 is a bit more and takes two days though. I have a Jobo CPE-2+ and I don't think I can even touch their E6 price.

[Paul Kierstead]

Labs range from $2.90 to $3.65 (Canadian dollars). The lab that is $2.90 is about half an hour from here (1 hour round trip) in decent traffic (i.e. not directly after work, maybe not lunch hour), keeps limited hours and takes a few days typically. So, to say get 10 sheets done, I am out $29 in processing and 2 hours of driving and probably 1/2 hour of waiting around. This means 2 lunches missed on top of that. I can think of a lot better things to do with my time and money. I can certainly process for lest cost and time (not to mention use time that suits me, not dashing like a madman on my lunch or after work).

I really wish there was a Tetenal dealer in Canada so I could use the 3-bath process, but importing it is not practical. I think B&H quoted $38 in shipping.

Anyway, for the next while I'll keep my eyes open for an el-cheapo CPE-2 and if that doesn't turn up, I'll maybe try spinning one manually in a tub of water.

Thanks for the help. You guys are polite, informative and helpful. If only all forums could be so good.