PDA

View Full Version : 9x12 plate wooden camera like Lancaster 1/4 plate Instantograph?



renes
11-Dec-2011, 11:13
I have seen recently beautiful Lancaster & Son Birmingham 1/4 plate Instantograph camera and decided to buy and use one - or any other 1/4 plate that is also so beautiful. Than I realised there is one or two available films of the format and can not use my favorite Adox CHS 25 and FP4+ which are made in 9x12cm. I wonder if there were similar but 9x12 plate view wooden cameras with interchangeable lens boards and wooden double holders? I could not spot them. I know about some german "Tropical" wooden type cameras but they are not the same with no interchangeable lens boards, limited moovements and metal front standard.

Would it be possible to adapt 9x12 wooden holders to 1/4 camera?

Ole Tjugen
11-Dec-2011, 11:32
Like this, you mean?

It's a Gandolfi Universal 5x4", made sometime in the 1920's, and takes modern film holders.

renes
11-Dec-2011, 16:15
Yes, looks quite similar, but I mean 9x12, not 4x5.

Lancaster Instantograph 1/4 plate seems to be great choice for traveling with back pack - it's small and very light... if it could take - after some adaptacion - 9x12 double film holders, it would be great. Anyone out there tried to put 9x12 holders to his/her Quarter plate camera?

Others 1/4 cameras that look also great is Sanderson, Butcher & Son National, Thornton Pickard, W.Watson & Sons, Ross London. Seems that all have Ground Glass placing verical and horisontal. Do not know if Fidelity Elite 9x12cm film holder or Linhof 9x12 are proper for such adaptacion, but I have seen also some wooden 9x12 holders.

IanG
11-Dec-2011, 18:14
A 9x12 camera can use 1/4 plate film as its width is very close and it's not as long, provided the holders fit. So many German 9x12 cameras were sold in the UK as 1/4 plate cameras with a slightly different focus back and with 1/4 plate holders.

However the other way round's just not possible as 9x12 is to long.

I have and use a Houghton's 1/4 plate wood & brass camera but I made a Roll film back adaptor. 1/4 plate film is available as part of Ilfords annual ULF run but it's much moire expensive than 5x4 or 9x12 which are readily available.

Get a good Half plate camera, pay NO more than 100 euros though, they are available. A half plate camera can then use 7x5 , 5x4 or 9x12 with a little ingenuity.

Ole's camera is one made by many manufacturers for nearly 80 years, it's not a unique dfesign to Gandolfi. Watson made similar into the 1960's, as it takes modern darkslides it's probably quite late production post WWII.

Ian

renes
12-Dec-2011, 08:32
A 9x12 camera can use 1/4 plate film as its width is very close and it's not as long, provided the holders fit. So many German 9x12 cameras were sold in the UK as 1/4 plate cameras with a slightly different focus back and with 1/4 plate holders.

However the other way round's just not possible as 9x12 is to long.

I have and use a Houghton's 1/4 plate wood & brass camera but I made a Roll film back adaptor. 1/4 plate film is available as part of Ilfords annual ULF run but it's much moire expensive than 5x4 or 9x12 which are readily available.

Get a good Half plate camera, pay NO more than 100 euros though, they are available. A half plate camera can then use 7x5 , 5x4 or 9x12 with a little ingenuity.

Ole's camera is one made by many manufacturers for nearly 80 years, it's not a unique dfesign to Gandolfi. Watson made similar into the 1960's, as it takes modern darkslides it's probably quite late production post WWII.

Ian

Thanks Ian.

I just got info from Adox/Fotoimpex and it turn out they sell Adox Art CHS 25/50 and 100iso films also in 1/4 plate format (8,3cm x 10,8cm). The price is even lower than for 9x12cm boxes. Sounds great, shame for Ilford.

I never seen german wooden 9x12 plate camera equipped with wooden film holders, wooden lens board and that was biuld likewise 1/4 plates mentioned above.
Were such ones?

Emil Schildt
12-Dec-2011, 09:01
I never seen german wooden 9x12 plate camera equipped with wooden film holders, wooden lens board and that was biuld likewise 1/4 plates mentioned above.
Were such ones?

I have a German 9x12cm camera with wooden double film holders.

But it seems I don't have an image of it.... I'll see if I can find a digicamera and take a snap for you.

My camera carries my small Jamin cone lens, and it is so light and easy to use...

(I also have a lancaster 1/4plate with holders, but I prefer the 9x12...)

Emil Schildt
12-Dec-2011, 09:11
what about this one?

not cheap, but nice looking!!

280214316284

renes
12-Dec-2011, 11:10
I have a German 9x12cm camera with wooden double film holders.

But it seems I don't have an image of it.... I'll see if I can find a digicamera and take a snap for you.

My camera carries my small Jamin cone lens, and it is so light and easy to use...

(I also have a lancaster 1/4plate with holders, but I prefer the 9x12...)

------------------

what about this one?

not cheap, but nice looking!!

280214316284

Will apreciate it if you could make some pics of your 9x12.

The one you linked looks nice indeed, not sure how stable is front standard part becouse nothing supports its standing on the bed, probably no any movement or very limited, and yes quite expensive.

1/4 plate camera are wonderfully small and light, do not now yet if I will buy quarter plate or 9x12, but the last one has to also be small. What is the main reason you prefer 9x12 over 1/4 plate?

IanG
12-Dec-2011, 12:31
9x12 film is still made by most manufacturers and colour films are available as well as B&W.

If you buy a British wooden 1/4 plate camera remember that you need the right book form plate holders there wasn't a standard so you may need to modify them to fit. They were often sold in sets of 3 and double sided.

If you want small, light and are prepared to have a metal camera look at the 9x12 Patent Etui.

This is a Patent Etui next to a Crown Graphic, remember the film size is just slightly narrower.

http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/etui06.jpg

My Houghton's Victo 1/4 plate camera
http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/LFcamera0_sm.jpg
and almost restored,
http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/cam08sm.jpg

Ian

Emil Schildt
12-Dec-2011, 13:01
Will apreciate it if you could make some pics of your 9x12.
__________
What is the main reason you prefer 9x12 over 1/4 plate?

My digicamera just died, but I'll make a snap asap...

My little 9x12 camera looks a little like Ole's Gandolfi, but smaller of course.

The front is fixed, and this makes it rather sturdy, compared to the 1/4 plate.

Also the front plate is bigger, so I can play with more different lenses.

The cassettes (I have 7 as I remember) all have "modern" metal inlays for film, so it is a perfectly working little camera. Weighs "nothing"..

.(PS) Ian: your restauration is georgeus! I couldn't do that!...

Steven Tribe
12-Dec-2011, 15:22
Not to criticise Ian - but some of us have have small quantities of period mahogany (Spanish and otherwise) around and available, so that the use of foreign timbers for reconstruction of small parts (like front standard uprights and base?) can be avoided. But perhaps I am making a mistake?

Ron (Netherlands)
12-Dec-2011, 15:27
9x12 film is still made by most manufacturers and colour films are available as well as B&W.

If you buy a British wooden 1/4 plate camera remember that you need the right book form plate holders there wasn't a standard so you may need to modify them to fit. They were often sold in sets of 3 and double sided.

If you want small, light and are prepared to have a metal camera look at the 9x12 Patent Etui.

This is a Patent Etui next to a Crown Graphic, remember the film size is just slightly narrower.

http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/etui06.jpg

My Houghton's Victo 1/4 plate camera
http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/LFcamera0_sm.jpg
and almost restored,
http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/cam08sm.jpg

Ian

Very nice craftmanship. Did you do the bellows yourself?

btw didn't know that 9x12 was still available, I'am still looking for film to put in my Ernemann (see here http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=762089&page=2)

IanG
12-Dec-2011, 16:21
Not to criticise Ian - but some of us have have small quantities of period mahogany (Spanish and otherwise) around and available, so that the use of foreign timbers for reconstruction of small parts (like front standard uprights and base?) can be avoided. But perhaps I am making a mistake?

Mistaken :D

However the new front standard is British oak and not mahogany and certainly not imported wood :) but one problem was it was extremely hard to identify what the camera make/model was to start with, which was going to influence the shape of the missing front standard and just as importantly the missing brass fittings.

More importantly this restoration was a learning curve, the camera had sat on a mantle piece in my house from around 1992/3 until early last year and it was a total wreck, thrown out by a former girlfriend.

The truth is I picked it up while back in the UK for a few weeks Spring 2010 and was about to put it in the dustbin, instead I thought hang on lets see what can be done and 30 mins later it was stripped, cleaned and french polished (first coat). At that point I realised it could be rebuilt relatuvely easily.

Then deciding on the new front standard was a bit like a friend who rebuilt an Innocenti Sprite in the 1980's there were only images to go from, (only 3 were imported into the UK and he had bits from them all) so there's compromise.

Since the restoration's been completed the camera's finally been idenified as a Houghton's Victo, and if I want to restore to as original I'd need to modify the front standard slightly, nothing major, or better still make another from old mahogany. I'd also make different bellows with square corners. Possibly what's more importnat is the restoration and new front standard hasn't affected the intergity of the rest of the camera.

My time's better spent on other restorations though :D

Ian

IanG
12-Dec-2011, 16:45
Very nice craftmanship. Did you do the bellows yourself?

btw didn't know that 9x12 was still available, I'am still looking for film to put in my Ernemann (see here http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=762089&page=2)

Yes I made the bellows.

I make my own shutter cloth and bellows materials, all started with a refurb of a Speed Graphic shutter 3 or 4 years ago.

Over time the two cloths have diverged as I find better materials. I must be well past 50 or 60 shutter restorations now, usually I make new curtains but on rare ocassions I restore.

I'd make small bellows for 120 folding cameras but I can buy new for about 3 (3.3 euro) and they are all OEM as well !!!!!!! I need to buy the box full :D

At the moment I just make bellows for my own use but may well be offering bellows on a commercial basis in 2012 along with a range of other products/services.

Ian

Paul Ewins
12-Dec-2011, 16:47
Here's my half plate Instantograph and how I adapted it for 4x5:
http://www.paulewins.com/old_site/resources/instantograph.htm

Steven Tribe
12-Dec-2011, 16:49
Completely OK and logical - and the result is marvellous and functional!
Let me know the dimensions of the three front standard pieces (or another design)and i'll send you the relacements for when you decide to have a look at it again. Remember, restoration is always quicker the second time around!

IanG
12-Dec-2011, 17:20
Completely OK and logical - and the result is marvellous and functional!
Let me know the dimensions of the three front standard pieces (or another design)and i'll send you the relacements for when you decide to have a look at it again. Remember, restoration is always quicker the second time around!


A little bird told me you're from a part of the Black Country that makes saddles, was he right ?

Yes it's true restoration is very much faster 2nd time around, it's usually better as well, I'll take you up on that front standard after Christmas.

What's interesting is to most people that new front standard looks perfect, I can stain/french polish to be extremely close but I can't match the wood grain, Oak alongside Mahogany - they are different.

Ian

renes
13-Dec-2011, 06:35
Do you think 1/4 camera front plates are sufficient in size to take Copal #3 shutter?

Ian, great work and restoration.

I will certainly buy wooden 1/4 or 9x12 plate, not a metal plate typical for german foldings.

Paul, thanks for sharing your 4x5 holder adaptation. So, it's possible, and should probably be easier with 9x12 holder.

IanG
16-Dec-2011, 16:08
Do you think 1/4 camera front plates are sufficient in size to take Copal #3 shutter?

Unlikely going by my cameras.

Ian

renes
16-Dec-2011, 16:15
Probably tailboard type would take Copal #3 which needs 62mm hole in lensboard...

but I would like to buy 1/4 field type.

Emil Schildt
18-Dec-2011, 05:10
better late than never....

Finally I got around to take som esnaps of my camera:

the front plate is 8cm high, so 6.5cm would likely be possible to drill...

it is very light! so easy to use, and the bellow draw is ok too...

have a look:

PS: the hole drilled in the last image is 6cm...

Ron (Netherlands)
18-Dec-2011, 05:39
better late than never....

Finally I got around to take som esnaps of my camera:

the front plate is 8cm high, so 6.5cm would likely be possible to drill...

it is very light! so easy to use, and the bellow draw is ok too...

have a look:

PS: the hole drilled in the last image is 6cm...

Lovely camera! Do you use 9 x 12 film for it?

Emil Schildt
18-Dec-2011, 06:24
Lovely camera! Do you use 9 x 12 film for it?

Yes I do. Foma film. I have about 7 double cassettes - all with 9x12 metal inlays.

Ron (Netherlands)
18-Dec-2011, 06:49
Yes I do. Foma film. I have about 7 double cassettes - all with 9x12 metal inlays.

I never tried one of my three 9 x 12 cams but would like to. Did you make the inlays yourself?

Emil Schildt
18-Dec-2011, 07:10
I never tried one of my three 9 x 12 cams but would like to. Did you make the inlays yourself?

no - they came with the camera - I was lucky!

Ron (Netherlands)
18-Dec-2011, 07:15
no - they came with the camera - I was lucky!

thinking about buying some Linhof plateholders from Ebay, hopefully they fit my cams which are all from the early 1920's

btw all cams (Ica, Ernemann & Contessa Nettel) came with their original plateholders, but of course these are for glass plates.

renes
18-Dec-2011, 07:58
better late than never....

Finally I got around to take som esnaps of my camera:

the front plate is 8cm high, so 6.5cm would likely be possible to drill...

it is very light! so easy to use, and the bellow draw is ok too...

have a look:

PS: the hole drilled in the last image is 6cm...

Thanks for the pics, looks very nice and good condition! Quite large front plate, enough to take Copal #3 shutter. The front plate size in your Lancaster 1/4 Instantograph is probably much smaller, is it a big difference?

Emil Schildt
18-Dec-2011, 08:43
Thanks for the pics, looks very nice and good condition! Quite large front plate, enough to take Copal #3 shutter. The front plate size in your Lancaster 1/4 Instantograph is probably much smaller, is it a big difference?

yes - the front plate in my Lancaster "Amber" is only 6.5x9.5 - there's an odd (not circular) looking hole in the camera front: 4.7x6cm

I also have a Gandolfi 4x5" camera: here's the front plate also rather small: 7x8.5cm..

renes
18-Dec-2011, 09:07
yes - the front plate in my Lancaster "Amber" is only 6.5x9.5 - there's an odd (not circular) looking hole in the camera front: 4.7x6cm

So, the hole could be drilled to about 50mm diameter?
But there is a flange mounted on the plate... what's the inner diameter?

Emil Schildt
18-Dec-2011, 10:34
So, the hole could be drilled to about 50mm diameter?
But there is a flange mounted on the plate... what's the inner diameter?

as told in my previous post: 6cm, but I think it cold be a little larger - 6.5-7 cm with a little care.

renes
18-Dec-2011, 11:04
Great thanks. That's a good new.
I do not want to trouble you more but I have a favour to ask of you, could you make two photos of the front standard of your Lancaster - one with with front plate on its place and one with taken it off? I will appreciate your help.

Lancaster made a few 1/4 plate models, wonder which one is yours.

Emil Schildt
18-Dec-2011, 15:17
Lancaster made a few 1/4 plate models, wonder which one is yours.

Renes: you have to start reading my posts...:D

Mine is called "Amber" as previously stated..

I'll take a snap when it gets light...

EDIT: I tried to find some pictures using google, and typed Lancaster Amber in...

this is what I got!:

http://www.google.com/search?q=lancaster+Amber&hl=da&rls=com.microsoft:da&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=oWfuTr6YG6Hk4QT8spyOCQ&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1144&bih=686

:)

renes
18-Dec-2011, 15:55
EDIT: I tried to find some pictures using google, and typed Lancaster Amber in...

this is what I got!:

http://www.google.com/search?q=lancaster+Amber&hl=da&rls=com.microsoft:da&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=oWfuTr6YG6Hk4QT8spyOCQ&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1144&bih=686

:)

I got this too when googled "Lancaster Amber" :) So, it did not helped much.
And such name is not listed at: http://www.woodandbrass.co.uk/master.php?pageNum_Recordset1=6&totalRows_Recordset1=198

My conclusion was amber regards to colour rather than to camera "name".

renes
18-Dec-2011, 15:56
EDIT: I tried to find some pictures using google, and typed Lancaster Amber in...

this is what I got!:

http://www.google.com/search?q=lancaster+Amber&hl=da&rls=com.microsoft:da&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=oWfuTr6YG6Hk4QT8spyOCQ&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1144&bih=686

:)

I had got this too when googled "Lancaster Amber" :) So, it did not help much.
And such name is not listed at: http://www.woodandbrass.co.uk/master.php?pageNum_Recordset1=6&totalRows_Recordset1=198

My conclusion was it regards to colour rather than to camera "name".

Emil Schildt
18-Dec-2011, 16:46
I had got this too when googled "Lancaster Amber" :) So, it did not help much.
And such name is not listed at: http://www.woodandbrass.co.uk/master.php?pageNum_Recordset1=6&totalRows_Recordset1=198

My conclusion was it regards to colour rather than to camera "name".

:o oups... my mistake..

it is a Thornton Picard Amber.... which might explain a couple of things.....

found this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=lancaster+Amber&hl=da&rls=com.microsoft:da&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=oWfuTr6YG6Hk4QT8spyOCQ&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1144&bih=686

mine is in a much better condition...

renes
19-Dec-2011, 02:03
:
found this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=lancaster+Amber&hl=da&rls=com.microsoft:da&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=oWfuTr6YG6Hk4QT8spyOCQ&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1144&bih=686

mine is in a much better condition...

she is everywhere :)

Is that one: http://www.woodandbrass.co.uk/detail.php?cat_num=0050 ?

Not sure, is front plate removable? Seems fixed.

Emil Schildt
19-Dec-2011, 04:38
she is everywhere :)

Is that one: http://www.woodandbrass.co.uk/detail.php?cat_num=0050 ?

Not sure, is front plate removable? Seems fixed.

that's the one - the front plate can be slided up and out.

I have a mess in my house right now, so I have trouble finding the original plate, but I have cut a fake one in cardboard - it works well...

Milonian
20-Feb-2016, 14:51
Yes I made the bellows.

I make my own shutter cloth and bellows materials, all started with a refurb of a Speed Graphic shutter 3 or 4 years ago.

Over time the two cloths have diverged as I find better materials. I must be well past 50 or 60 shutter restorations now, usually I make new curtains but on rare ocassions I restore.

I'd make small bellows for 120 folding cameras but I can buy new for about 3 (3.3 euro) and they are all OEM as well !!!!!!! I need to buy the box full :D

At the moment I just make bellows for my own use but may well be offering bellows on a commercial basis in 2012 along with a range of other products/services.

Ian

Just noticed you make bellows - I do too but still trying to find the best material. Can I ask what you use please?

IanG
20-Feb-2016, 15:34
Just noticed you make bellows - I do too but still trying to find the best material. Can I ask what you use please?

I actually make some of the materials myself, I guess I've been doing it for about 8 or 9 years it began with shutter cloth.

Ian

Milonian
28-May-2016, 00:31
9x12 film is still made by most manufacturers and colour films are available as well as B&W.

If you buy a British wooden 1/4 plate camera remember that you need the right book form plate holders there wasn't a standard so you may need to modify them to fit. They were often sold in sets of 3 and double sided.

If you want small, light and are prepared to have a metal camera look at the 9x12 Patent Etui.

This is a Patent Etui next to a Crown Graphic, remember the film size is just slightly narrower.

http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/etui06.jpg

My Houghton's Victo 1/4 plate camera
http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/LFcamera0_sm.jpg
and almost restored,
http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/cameras/images/cam08sm.jpg

Ian
Found this post by accident - just wanted to say fab job with the restoration 😊

IanG
28-May-2016, 01:54
Found this post by accident - just wanted to say fab job with the restoration ��

Thanks, I've restored quite a few cameras since then but not really posted anything on line.

Ian