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View Full Version : advice needed, new digi view or linhof



norly
7-Dec-2011, 03:12
Hi. I need some advice.

Background.
I shoot architecture / landscape and some products with a 4x5 linhof technikardan s45 and rodenstock Sironar S lenses.

Advice.
Ive am starting to feel compelled to turn digital, mainly due to time and request from my clients. So then I scoped the market for a solution. And I found the following options. All to be combined with a p65 phase one back. Money is not really an issue, just quality and function. And i dont want to leave the view cameras and I must have shift funtion, tilt is optional but nice to have.


1. Add a phase one view adapter for my linhof (if they exist) and get a wider lens. That would work fine, since I really love working with the linhof. The questions is, how will it work with my existing pre digital lenses? Everyone seams to think its impossible and the image quality will be horrible. Any experience? No mather what I will be keeping the linhof sine I shoot my own projects on film or b&w.

2. Get second system with tilt and shift function and buy new lenses...

Arca swiss F and similar rail systems
That should work fine, but its so similar to my linhof that I rather stay with that one.

Arca Swiss Rm3d
Its compact and have a shift function. But it seams like the widest lens is 90mm and that is not enough. I need something equal to 300mm on a 4x5. The lenses are strangely placed so that its a bit tight to wind them (to far back in camera/bellow). The first impression is not that good. a bit to complicated construction.

Silvestri Bicam
This is my favorite. If it supported longer lenses this would have been my choose (max 105mm). Simple and easy to work with. Combined with a p65 phase one and its a winner. You can use tilt with a adapter, and thats ok since I mainly use that in the studio.


I dont know where im going with this, but what are you using? maybe there is something Ive missed and should know about? Or you throw something out there and I can research it... :)

thanks

Bob Salomon
7-Dec-2011, 03:19
Get a Linhof Techno, some digital lenses and have the best of both worlds. The Techno will let you use a 28mm on a flat board! With a W/A bellows, of course.

darr
7-Dec-2011, 04:22
I use the Arca Swiss M-Line 2 with a Phase One P45 back. The pancake type camera you mentioned, the Arca Swiss Rm3d is comparable to my Alpa Max. The pancake type cameras are a good choice for landscape work, but not so much so for tabletop work although with enough $$$ can be used. You will need to use lenses and or lens mounting adapters specifically made for the pancake type cameras; this equates to a $1700 lens will now cost you $3500+ (same exact lens but with camera specific mount) --not so for the M-Line 2 or Linhof view camera models, one reason I made the transition to the M Line 2 from my presvious F-Line models. If you are going to make the switch, you will need to eventually upgrade your lenses to digital versions for optimum quality.

Is it worth it? Yes, if you are a productive commercial studio or a well-to-do hobbyist (feed the camera industry please).

My 2 cents. :)

norly
7-Dec-2011, 04:32
Ha, I know i would get some good opinions. I just came back from the shop after having felt a bit on the Arca F line. Not super impressed, and in the bag it takes up more space then my linhof...

The Techno or the M line seams nicer. Ill get back to you guys when I have looked in to it a bit more.

Does anyone got a link to a test between analog lf lens and digital ones with a phase one or del? I know the digital i sharper and has problems with overlapping colors and so on analog lenses. But is the result in same class as my imacon scanned 4x5s? If so I can start of with my existing lenses...

Bob Salomon
7-Dec-2011, 04:45
How can you leave out the Techno and the M679cs? Or the TK 23S with the digital option? Or the master Technika 3000 with the shift back and digital option?

norly
7-Dec-2011, 04:59
How can you leave out the Techno and the M679cs? Or the TK 23S with the digital option? Or the master Technika 3000 with the shift back and digital option?

Thats why I asked you guys. The tk23 is a natural choose in many ways. Especially since I work so much with the 45s. But since the size/weight is ok with the 45 i might just as well do a mask for the view glass and attach the phase one there instead.

Thats the same with all the 6x9 rail cams, they are quite wide and bulky in the bag compared to the 45s. (except possibly the techno)...

ps
How the heck do I update the poll?

jeroldharter
7-Dec-2011, 06:22
Sounds like you also need something with geared movements. The Arca M line would be hard to beat. The Linhof would be much more compact but I don't think it has any geared movements other than focus. Perhaps I am wrong on that?

Letoco
7-Dec-2011, 06:42
Thats why I asked you guys. The tk23 is a natural choose in many ways. Especially since I work so much with the 45s. But since the size/weight is ok with the 45 i might just as well do a mask for the view glass and attach the phase one there instead.

Thats the same with all the 6x9 rail cams, they are quite wide and bulky in the bag compared to the 45s. (except possibly the techno)...

ps
How the heck do I update the poll?

Why not using the tools professionals use? I would take Bob's advice seriously, if I were you. Are you a professional who is looking for a professional solution? My guts tell me it is not the case (nothing wrong with it) - a camera being wide in the bag is not a reason for a professional photographer to consider. Professional tools take what they take. Also, the strange (always for a professional, otherwise very comprehensible) way of deciding - with a pool?? Who said it - "Truth is not decided with a vote of majority" (cannot remember right now)?

Robert Jonathan
7-Dec-2011, 07:18
You need to look at the Arca Swiss M Line Monolith 6x9 before you buy anything.

The M Monolith has full movements on both standards, all geared and self-locking.

The M Line 2 has rise/fall/shift on the rear, and tilt/swing on the front, which makes it lighter in weight than the M Monolith.

Bob Salomon
7-Dec-2011, 07:21
Sounds like you also need something with geared movements. The Arca M line would be hard to beat. The Linhof would be much more compact but I don't think it has any geared movements other than focus. Perhaps I am wrong on that?

Absolutely wrong! All movements on the Linhof Techno and the Linhof M679cs digital view cameras are very precisely geared for maximum control with digital. Gearing on these cameras is much more precise then the gearing on any view camera designed for film.

Bob Salomon
7-Dec-2011, 07:23
Thats why I asked you guys. The tk23 is a natural choose in many ways. Especially since I work so much with the 45s. But since the size/weight is ok with the 45 i might just as well do a mask for the view glass and attach the phase one there instead.

Thats the same with all the 6x9 rail cams, they are quite wide and bulky in the bag compared to the 45s. (except possibly the techno)...

ps
How the heck do I update the poll?

Then you want to look at the TK23S with the digital back adapter system. But the Techno and M679cs are still much better choices!

Bob Salomon
7-Dec-2011, 07:24
Ha, I know i would get some good opinions. I just came back from the shop after having felt a bit on the Arca F line. Not super impressed, and in the bag it takes up more space then my linhof...

The Techno or the M line seams nicer. Ill get back to you guys when I have looked in to it a bit more.

Does anyone got a link to a test between analog lf lens and digital ones with a phase one or del? I know the digital i sharper and has problems with overlapping colors and so on analog lenses. But is the result in same class as my imacon scanned 4x5s? If so I can start of with my existing lenses...

No film lens will equal the performance that a digital lens is capable of. Just download the technical specs and the curves. They are readily available for both film and digital Rodenstock lenses on the Rodenstock web site.

peter ramm
7-Dec-2011, 07:36
Tech (pancake) cameras have limited movements (I have Alpas), so they are not much use for tabletop, for example. Even a simple tilt may require some fiddling and is a pain. Compact, sexy and great for landscapes but not very flexible.

Geared digital view cameras (I have an AS Monolith 6 x 9) are bigger and clumsier to carry and setup. Flexible, but a pain to carry and slow to set up so not great for landscape or architecture.

That would be OK. After all, the camera is nothing really. You could just get a couple of types of camera to handle all your applications and move the very expensive lenses between them. Oh, no, you can't. The lenses don't transfer and that really matters when a modern digital lens in a tech camera mount can cost >$5000.

Sadly, the helical focus mounts of the tech cameras are all mounted to custom boards, or there is some other reason you can't just move lenses back and forth between your view and tech cameras.

I want a flat board mount - with integral focus capability - that allows expensive digital lenses to move back and forth between a moderately compact tech camera with front T/R/F and rear shift, and a geared view camera with full movements on both standards. I would dump the Alpas in an instant for that.

Kirk Gittings
7-Dec-2011, 08:44
there is good information on technical cameras on this thread in LL (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=59833.0).
A technical camera would be my choice and probably an Arca.

Armin Seeholzer
7-Dec-2011, 15:14
The Linhof Techno would be my joice!
I played a bit with it at photokina in Cologne/Köln I would like one!
You even can use it also for Roll film!

Cheers Armin

gary mulder
9-Dec-2011, 10:52
My experience with a linhof M679cs + 22 Mb back and short lenses (35mm) in low light it is nearly impossible to focus. A have tried various screens, including the hasselblad acute mat. Live view is a must. My schneider 38mm is nice for doing stitch whith a lot of shift / rise . The short digi lenses do not have sufficient image circle most of the time with architecture.

norly
16-Mar-2012, 01:41
The short digi lenses do not have sufficient image circle most of the time with architecture.
Ive noticed this on my latest job. The movement was very limited compared to my analog equipment. But that depends on the lens..

If feels like, after reading all your opinions that I would like to test the linhof techno. Maybe thats what I'm looking for. If I'm buying any new equipment geared levels are a must. (just ordered the Arca Swiss d4 by the way..) But I must say that I don't like working digital.. Not only from a technical point of view, but the whole way of working is wrong. When I do commercial stuff analog, the creatives must trust my judgment and accept my superior knowledge of how the photo will come out. But with digital everyone wants to have an opinion and in a way removes the responsibility and trust that photopgraher deserve... please note I'm only 29 years old, not 70 :).

But that discussion is better to do on other threads.



a camera being wide in the bag is not a reason for a professional photographer to consider.
This must be the most ridiculous comment Ive ever heard. Its the end result that counts and if you can't bring your equipment you won't have any photos.



in low light it is nearly impossible to focus.
The focus was something I also noticed when working in a studio with halogen lights. They are so sensitive and needing to check the sharpness in the computer after each photo is not always practical. Maybe thats something you get used to, but I missed the big 4x5" screen. The small view glasses for medium formats are way to small for me and my loupe.

And I'm very thankful for all the good answers and I now have a lot of names to start with. Many thanks.

norly
16-Jul-2012, 05:34
I only wanted to do a followup to this thread and telling you what I ended up buying, a arca-swiss F classic 6x9. It took a while to decide but I am very happy with the camera. And this is perfect for me. Small, light and flexible.

7726877269

I got some chinese digiback adapter for 645 and H backs as well.

Have nice summer everyone.