Will a Manfrotto 338 work beneath a 410 Head ?

[Ken Lee]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/LevelingHead.png

My tripod has no level on it.

Can we put a Manfrotto 338 Leveling Base (http://www.manfrotto.com/levelling-base) beneath a Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head (http://www.manfrotto.com/410-junior-geared-head) ?

This would allow the head to be leveled from below, so that subsequent movements (like pan) would be level.

Once the 410 is on the 338, can we still see the 338's bubble level ?

[Dan Fromm]

Ken, consider a Manfrotto 438. See it here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554093-REG/Manfrotto_438_438_Compact_Levelling_Head.html

The 438 replaced the 138. I've had a 138 since the late '80s, can't imagine doing without it. The 338 has a much more limited range of adjustments, would require fiddling with the legs much more when setting up than the 438 will.

[dave_whatever]

From the comfort of my armchair I reckon you'll be able to see that bubble just fine.

[Walter Calahan]

I use a 338 with a large Linhof ball head and can see the spirit level just fine. From eyeballing the 410, I'd say you'd be fine, but nothing beats real world experience.

[Walter Calahan]

There is also this to consider as a solution.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=TA-U-LB&type=0&eq=TAULB-001&desc=TA-U-LB%3a-Universal-Leveling-Base

[Collas]

And the Acratech levelling base as well.

http://www.acratech.net/home.php?cat=2

I use this with a Kirk ball-head and it's easy to see. But I would still like an Arca-Swiss D4 to play with instead!

Nick

[Sevo]

I can confirm that the 438 works well in combination with the 410. Don't know about the 338 - by specs it ought to fit just as well, but its purpose is somewhat different, it is intended to be used as a precision adjustment base for 3d panorama generation, and will be rather fiddly and restricted when used as a generic levelling base.

[Ken Lee]

I would prefer to avoid leveling heads that are based on a ball. The 338 has 3 independent controls.

The other day I passed a surveyor using a sturdy wooden tripod and a Leica equipment. Between the tripod and the theodolite (?) was something like this tribrach (http://www.leica-geosystems.com/images/new/product_solution/GDF122-PIC-500x500.jpg) - which looks a lot like the Manfrotto leveling base.

[Ken Lee]

Ken, consider a Manfrotto 438. See it here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554093-REG/Manfrotto_438_438_Compact_Levelling_Head.html

I don't see anywhere to adjust the angle. How do you level it ?

[Sevo]

I would prefer to avoid leveling heads that are based on a ball. The 338 has 3 independent controls.

Generations of cinematographers did fine with ball-based ones - they are accurate enough if all you need is a reasonably level base underneath another three-way or ball head, and are much faster to set up. But I agree, for high precision (as needed for some kinds of stitching and 3D work), a tribrach is superior. But geometer's tripods often stack a tribrach on top of a ball base - supporting the argument that they are rather unsuitable for a initial adjustment.

[Dan Fromm]

I don't see anywhere to adjust the angle. How do you level it ?

Ken, it is a ball leveler. The lever on the side -- look at the picture @ B&H -- clamps and unclamps the head.

My 138s (long story, I have two) are similar but have a handle that screws in to clamp the ball. Set up is very fast and easy. I've had to lubricate the clamp's threads with graphite powder to make secure clamping easy. Here's a 138: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manfrotto-Bogen-138-Large-Leveling-Ball-Head-/330577540001

I share your distaste for balls -- I find ball heads nearly impossible to use -- but with a claw ball plus a 3-axis head the ball serves only to make the 3-axis head's pan axis vertical. After that's done, the 3-axis head is used normally.

Cheers,

Dan

[Ken Lee]

I went ahead and ordered a 338. I'll let you know if it doesn't work.

Even if it isn't as fast as a ball head, I prefer the separate controls and what I presume is a bit more stability. I sometimes use a Sinar P with 5x7 back, long lenses, multiple bellows, etc.

Thanks !! :)

[Ken Lee]

Update:

I said I'd let you know if it didn't work: I didn't. I returned it.

Putting a 410 head over it, the 338 bubble level is plainly visible. However, I failed to grasp before purchase that the 338 provides only +/- 0.5 degrees of adjustment. That's 1/2 of a degree.

To its credit, it's very nicely made and quite sturdy. There is probably an application for which it is ideally suited.

I'm going to try the Acratech: it's lightweight.

It occurs to me that a ball is fine, as long as we level the leveling head before attaching the camera. Duhh

[Dan Fromm]

Ken, see post #2 in this thread.

[Sevo]

To its credit, it's very nicely made and quite sturdy. There is probably an application for which it is ideally suited.


Sure, precision pan-and-stitch. These things are commonly used to micro adjust the base of nodal tilt adapters.

If the 138/438 are unsuitable because the camera is too heavy to level on them, you might use a heavy duty video/cine tripod - these have a leveller ball more than twice the size, with the corresponding damping.

If you dislike any kind of ball, you probably cannot avoid getting a tree-way geared head for the purpose - but stacking that underneath another head might make your setup rather prone to vibration.

[Ken Lee]

Ken, see post #2 in this thread.

Thanks Dan - I have looked at the Manfrotto 438: it appears to be a bit heavy at 1.4 pounds (650 g). The Acratech weights 0.5 lbs (240 g).

Perhaps the Manfrotto is more sturdy and robust ?

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks Dan - I have looked at the Manfrotto 438: it appears to be a bit heavy at 1.4 pounds (650 g). The Acratech weights 0.5 lbs (240 g).

Perhaps the Manfrotto is more sturdy and robust ?Ken, as I've told you I have a 138, which was replaced by the 438. Very sturdy, very robust, supports 25+ pounds of Baby Bertha with ease. The 438 looks to be a little nicer than the 138.

If you're concerned about weight, consider losing a little.

[Ken Lee]

Excellent advice. I'll take it :)

[cdholden]

If weight is an issue, why not just use a small torpedo level or two? You can "eyeball" a rough setting, then confirm it with the level(s).

[David E. Rose]

Ken,
For what it's worth, I have found that the leveling bubbles on the Manfrotto tripods and heads are not very accurate. The will get you closer than eyeballing it, but they can't be relied on for accurate leveling. They also are not adjustable.

[Ken Lee]

Thanks for the heads-up. It doesn't have to be perfect, just close enough to let me pan without going off on a tangent, so to speak. Anything is better than what I have now, which is nothing.

[falth j]

Save your money on the 338.

I've tried many leveling base/heads.

The manfrotto 338 was too fiddly besides being a pia.

Found true love with the Gitzo GS5121LV Leveling Base.

Of course you'll have to have a tripod that will accept the base, but once you buy the tripod you'll be done fooling around trying to get to a state of phantasmagorical level.

Instead of minutes fooling with the manfrotto 338 adjusting each base screw independently, trying for level only to run out of adjustment, and then having to fool with tripod leg lengths, I put it away for good.


I now spend less than a few seconds with the Gitzo to get to level.

[Dan Fromm]

Ken,
For what it's worth, I have found that the leveling bubbles on the Manfrotto tripods and heads are not very accurate. The will get you closer than eyeballing it, but they can't be relied on for accurate leveling. They also are not adjustable.Funny, when I put a cine camera on a 3047 on a 138 and carefully centered the 138's bubble the horizon didn't move when I panned.

Faith j wrote:
I now spend less than a few seconds with the Gitzo to get to level.

That's where I am with my Manfrotto 138 on a Berlebach. A leveling ball is, I think, a necessity. As you've pointed out, there's more than one make/model that will do very well.

[Ken Lee]

Thanks Dan - I got the Manfrotto 438: it fits my tripod and head perfectly, and it works perfectly: fast, strong, easy to read, etc.

It's quite light, to I won't have to go on a diet either ;)

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/manfrotto438.png