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View Full Version : "Affordable" 8x10 that's international travel "friendly".



Chris C
29-Nov-2011, 19:42
Hey guys.

Yes i know, I'm a little bit mad.

After shooting 4x5 for 6-7 years I'm finally fed up with enlarging and contact printing 4x5's. I just don't enjoy enlarging anymore and contacts are too small. It's time to make the step up. An 8x10 contact printing workflow had always appealed to me immensely and now's the time to make it happen, and hopefully for a reasonable price (that's the kicker).

I'm heading to Nepal in March for 3 months with a little side trip into India. I'd really like to have this all bought and ready to go by then. So what I'm looking for is a camera I can travel internationally with so weight and size are pretty important, and so is price. I've done a lot of hunting around and 8x10 really is another world as far as knowing what to look for. In a perfect world I'd get a new Chamonix but that's going to be well out of my budget. The Tachihara 8x10 (chrome) that MPEX has listed on their site is pretty tempting, but I can't find any info on it's weight (does anyone know?). But then there's the world of used cameras, and I really don't know what to look for. If I could get something ~5kgs for under $1k I'd be so over the moon, but I'm not sure that's realistic.

This is where I come to pick your brains. Are there any suggestions for specific cameras that either fit this bill or come close to fitting the bill to look out for? I really think it's going to have to be a field cam rather than a monorail to maintain the semblance of sanity I have.

Lenses are easy I think. I've always been a 1 lens guy. It's always been a 150mm on 4x5 but I'm pretty set on looking for a 240mm for 8x10. Just something a little wider will be ideal so long as it allows for a touch of movements (mostly front rise). There seem to be a few affordable options that will fit the bill.

Anyway, thanks a ton in advance for any advice you can give here. I keep going round in circles over this.

Frank Petronio
29-Nov-2011, 20:20
My friend David - Altcruiser is a reliable seller who has a nice 240 Rodenstock Sironar-N for sale at a reasonable price here - think he posted it yesterday. That's a good 8x10 lens.

As for the perfect lightweight 8x10 camera, good luck! You missed that nice Wehman that sold last night... perhaps somebody will list an older 8x10 Arca - maybe a Kodak Master View (isn't there one for sale here too?).

That said, you would want to have some experience with that 8x10 before heading out, and 4x5 is much easier and less expensive so perhaps consider how to make 4x5 fun and satisfying rather than leaving your wife for some high-maintenance hussy!?

Nathan Potter
29-Nov-2011, 20:28
What are you going to photograph in Nepal? If you are trekking and toting an 8X10 you need something light. If you have a guide to tote for you then you can bring a bit of serious weight. If you are going to stick to the roads close to a vehicle (you need a driver) you've got some flexibility, but those are perilous roads in places and driving is painfully slow. The main east to west thoroughfare isn't too bad, say Kathmandu to Pokara and up the Gandaki valley is OK. Going east from Kathmandu - I don't know but I would expect there are some precipitous and perilous sections for driving.

The valley villages are highly photogenic and accessible by vehicle while some of the best monasteries (many spectacular) need to be reached by considerable hiking. Guides and porters are essential for high altitude trekking because many trails are poorly marked or don't exist. Anything above 18,000 feet or so requires some serious altitude adaptation unless you are in unusually good shape.

My son just returned from the area around Dhauligiri and the Annapurnas but elected not to bring his 4X5 but just use a digital SLR. In fact I was just downloading an image of Machhapuchhre (never been climbed to the summit) from him when I saw your post.

I'd recommend studying the areas of your interest on Google earth fairly carefully before going; there is a lot of good resolution through central Nepal.

Good luck you lucky devil. And be careful!

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

ImSoNegative
29-Nov-2011, 20:30
My friend David - Altcruiser is a reliable seller who has a nice 240 Rodenstock Sironar-N for sale at a reasonable price here - think he posted it yesterday. That's a good 8x10 lens.

As for the perfect lightweight 8x10 camera, good luck! You missed that nice Wehman that sold last night... perhaps somebody will list an older 8x10 Arca - maybe a Kodak Master View (isn't there one for sale here too?).

Daniel stone has his KMV for sale,

Fred L
29-Nov-2011, 20:45
If I recall correctly from my wife's trip to NZ, you have really tight restrictions re:carry on weight so I'm guessing an 8x10 camera and lenses will probably put you over the limit. Were/are you willing to chance putting it in the baggage for the trip ? Holders would travel well.

I would think Richard Ritter's 8x10 would be the obvious choice for go light large format as it's only 6.4 lbs (2.9 k) but it's definitely not going to be <$1000 ;)

As for lenses, if you want a bit wider than your 240, the Fuji 210 5.6 (inside barrel lettering) would be ideal. Light, compact and covers 8x10.

Good luck in your search !

Chris C
29-Nov-2011, 20:58
My friend David - Altcruiser is a reliable seller who has a nice 240 Rodenstock Sironar-N for sale at a reasonable price here - think he posted it yesterday. That's a good 8x10 lens.
Thanks for the tip! I noticed he said there's not a ton of room for movements. Any chance you'd know if there was enough for ~2-3cm of rise?


What are you going to photograph in Nepal?
An excellent question (I'm not even sure I could accurately describe what I shoot here)! Basically, I'm going to be based in the Kathmandu Valley volunteering with kids for 3 months, so it'll be things of interest in and around the valley. I'm young and stupid so I won't mind cycling with some stuff for a little way but when I was there in 2008 I never found any sort of transport to be much of a problem. I'd debated trekking again, though I'm not going to be fussed if I don't, but if I do I'll be leaving behind all the 8x10 gear in Kathmandu and heading into the hills with just a 35mm.


If I recall correctly from my wife's trip to NZ, you have really tight restrictions re:carry on weight so I'm guessing an 8x10 camera and lenses will probably put you over the limit. Were/are you willing to chance putting it in the baggage for the trip ? Holders would travel well.

I would think Richard Ritter's 8x10 would be the obvious choice for go light large format as it's only 6.4 lbs (2.9 k) but it's definitely not going to be <$1000 ;)

As for lenses, if you want a bit wider than your 240, the Fuji 210 5.6 (inside barrel lettering) would be ideal. Light, compact and covers 8x10.

Good luck in your search !
Carry-on's usually 7kgs or so. I'll be checking the tripod in so I'd probably just check the camera (minus glass) too. Neither will be any good without the other in the sub-continent. The Ritter 8x10 would be ideal but I really don't think my budget's going to stretch that far, unfortunately.
The flipside to the weight issue is just giving up on my 8x10 dream for a little while and picking up a Chamonix 4x5 for the trip. I'd be able to fit all my camera gear in a Domke F2 doing this, but 8x10's been alluring me for far too long now…

Fred L
29-Nov-2011, 21:05
Not one to deter you but have you also considered MF ? Much easier to travel with and the quality is nothing to sneeze at.

While I really appreciate LF, if I was on a trip like this, I think I'd simple things down and take a MF (Mamiya 6), an Xpan and a small digital p&s. In fact, if I do get to go to NZ with my wife, this is what I'd most likely bring with me.

Also, do you *REALLY* need LF for this trip ?

Chris C
29-Nov-2011, 21:09
My previous two trips (Nepal and Myanmar) I've traveled with a Mamiya 645 Pro. Good photos, but both trips I've come back kicking myself for not taking my old 4x5. I just produce much better photos when I'm shooting large format.

BarryS
29-Nov-2011, 21:10
I think shooting 8x10 is going to be hard for the type of travel you're doing. I love 8x10, but a full kit--even with one lens--is going to be tough to manage. The really light 8x10's are going to be expensive and the holders and tripod will kill you if the camera doesn't. Have you considered 5x7? A 5x7 camera doesn't weigh much more than a 4x5 and the contact prints are very nice--large enough to enjoy. I'd recommend whole plate--because the camera size and contact print are absolutely perfect, but it would cost a lot to get set up.

The Chamonix 5x7 convertible only weighs 2 kg and if you can scrape up the 2K--it would be a great choice. Shen Hao sells the FCL57A for $1300 and it weighs 3 kg.

Frank Petronio
29-Nov-2011, 21:19
A used 8x10 Tachihara with that 240 and a couple of holders, plus a couple boxes of film and a smaller camera/meter would just make the carry-on and still be managable. Be sure to get a ground glass protector! A Tachi would be great with a 240 since you wouldn't be extending too far, if ever.

I think all of the 240/5.6 lenses are going to be a bit small in image circle at that price point, until you get into the slower f/9 lenses or the $$$ super ones. For people photos I would definitely prefer the f/5.6 aperture even if I sacrificed size/weight/coverage. For landscape only, then one of the small f/9 lenses would give you more coverage and be smaller too.

Chris C
29-Nov-2011, 21:23
I think shooting 8x10 is going to be hard for the type of travel you're doing. I love 8x10, but a full kit--even with one lens--is going to be tough to manage. The really light 8x10's are going to be expensive and the holders and tripod will kill you if the camera doesn't. Have you considered 5x7? A 5x7 camera doesn't weigh much more than a 4x5 and the contact prints are very nice--large enough to enjoy. I'd recommend whole plate--because the camera size and contact print are absolutely perfect, but it would cost a lot to get set up.

The Chamonix 5x7 convertible only weighs 2 kg and if you can scrape up the 2K--it would be a great choice. Shen Hao sells the FCL57A for $1300 and it weighs 3 kg.
I'll have to admit this has worried me a bit. Once I get there I know I'll be totally fine, it's only really the getting there and back that'll be an issue, and being based in one place for 3 months would be long enough to justify the hassle. Plus there's a really good darkroom (at least there was on '08-'09, I'll be finding out before I go) in Kathmandu I'll be able to use to take the strain out of having unprocessed sheets sitting around waiting for something to go wrong.
I've debated 5x7 before but I still find the contacts to be too small for my taste. Plus there's the much smaller variety of film. If I don't go 8x10 it'll definitely be 4x5 seeing as I still have all my holders, a 150mm and an enlarger, plus I'll be able to fit it all on a well sized shoulder bag. If I'm going to sell all that to fund something else I might as well make it worthwhile.

Chris C
29-Nov-2011, 21:32
A used 8x10 Tachihara with that 240 and a couple of holders, plus a couple boxes of film and a smaller camera/meter would just make the carry-on and still be managable. Be sure to get a ground glass protector! A Tachi would be great with a 240 since you wouldn't be extending too far, if ever.

I think all of the 240/5.6 lenses are going to be a bit small in image circle at that price point, until you get into the slower f/9 lenses or the $$$ super ones. For people photos I would definitely prefer the f/5.6 aperture even if I sacrificed size/weight/coverage. For landscape only, then one of the small f/9 lenses would give you more coverage and be smaller too.
To be honest, 2 holders will be all I'll need. I'm not going to be shooting constantly, I'm naturally a slow shooter and there should still be a darkroom I can use to un/reload regularly. This will make things seem quite manageable in my eyes, especially if I put my seamstress skills to good use and make a custom, light travel case for it all.

Oren Grad
29-Nov-2011, 21:34
Thanks for the tip! I noticed he said there's not a ton of room for movements. Any chance you'd know if there was enough for ~2-3cm of rise?

The specification is 28mm rise, 23mm shift at f/22 and infinity focus, landscape format. I had the chance to test the lens in its more recent Apo-Sironar-N incarnation. It's a very fine lens, but for my taste - I tend to use a fair amount of front rise with a wide-ish lens like 240 on 8x10 - the image circle did feel cramped.

I think the Tachihara double-extension 8x10 weighs around 4.5 kg. When figuring your kit weight, take into account the fact that modern 8x10 Fidelity holders weigh more than 600 g each. Also, that 240 Sironar-N is in a Copal 3, and weighs ~780 g. A G-Claron or similar in Copal 1 may be more practical. And don't forget the weight of the focusing hood, meter, case...

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
29-Nov-2011, 21:36
I used to travel with an old Korona, a 240mm G-Claron, and four wooden holders. This was as compact and lightweight as I could get and not feel that I was risking my entire net worth every time I took a flight. I regarded it as a replaceable kit which could be sold or even abandoned during my travels if necessary.

Currently I drag a 240mm f5.6 Sironar-S with me, larger coverage than the regular Sironar-N and Symmar-S (both are pretty tight as Oren notes above), but this is a large and expensive lens. Consider the 250mm f6.7 (not the f6.3) Fujinon-W rather than a 240mm f5.6 or even a f9 lens. It fits into a no. 1 shutter, and has more image circle than you will need, and won't cost very much. Also, rather than breaking the bank on a new camera, an older flatbed camera might fit the bill. They are lightweight (especially if you leave the second extension at home) and provide front rise.

BarryS
29-Nov-2011, 21:39
Chris--you sound like you know what you're getting into. The Tachi double extension or the Shen Hao 8x10 would both probably work for you. If cost is an issue, you could always bring a Korona or a Kodak 2D without the extension rail--they don't weight that much more than the Tachi.

Ari
29-Nov-2011, 21:47
I second the Fujinon 250mm f6.7
Plenty of room for movements, and lighter and smaller than the Copal 3-based 240mm.

Merg Ross
29-Nov-2011, 21:52
It is good to hear that you are familiar with Nepal, and the particular situation that awaits you. I have not been to Nepal, but have been to India, and would not consider an 8x10 as my camera of choice there.

However, I have a friend who has trekked extensively in Nepal over several years, resultung in a portfolio of superb images. He uses a 4x5 Zone VI, and his enlargements to 8x10 are real gems.

I share your appreciation for the 8x10 contact print, but question the short time that you have to assemble a kit and become comfortable with "seeing 8x10". Personally, I would concentrate on the finest lenses, film, and developer combinations for working with 4x5.

Whatever you choose, have a fine journey and good light.

mdm
29-Nov-2011, 22:04
If I were in your shoes, it would be a Fuji GW 6x9 with tmax 400 and maybe portra 400. If I really wanted to spend time on photography, like a dream trip to very special and unvisited places and people, no expense spared on porters, jeeps and clean safe 'hotels', then I would consider a 5x7 with 1 or 2 lenses and 5 film holders. Canham, Nagaoka, Shen Hao etc. It would be 1 or the other for me. Dont weigh yourself down with gear.

B.S.Kumar
29-Nov-2011, 22:13
I've no experience with 8x10, but 4x5 should do you well, given the short time you have to get used to it. If you're set on a larger format, the older Toyo Original Field is very compact and light, if you manage to find the 8x10 back. The older Fujinons with the inside lettering are great.

Kumar

Frank Bunnik
29-Nov-2011, 22:18
What about the Wilderness 8x10? There was a thread here recently about this camera and it did look interesting and wasn't very expensive.

Good luck with your choice and enjoy the trip, Frank
www.frankbunnik.zenfolio.com

jeroldharter
29-Nov-2011, 22:40
I have switched to 8x10 primarily and use a Wehman. A Wehman LigHtweight would be ideal for you, or a Ritter, but neither is in your budget. As far as a lens goes, if you like a 150 in 4x5, consider a 305 mm G-Claron which is small, light, and allows for lots of movements.

Nevertheless, I would discourage you from going the 8x10 route. Even from 4x5 there is a learning curve. I did not think there would be given that is is simply an upscaled 4x5. But just as the film is 4x larger, everything seems to me multiplied by four: cost, bulk, weight, time, effort. On the surface, one ca,era, one lens, and 2 film holders seems simple. But you will need to change film which requires a large tent, spare film boxes, etc. you have to keep it all clean and dust free. You one lens could malfunction. You will have no idea how you are doing with focusing (much less depth of field compared to 4x5) until you get home. Since your budget is low, you will probably end up with a heavy camera and a heavy tripod. That could easily be 25 pounds right there, vs. ~11.5 pounds for an ultralight setup with a Ritter and CF tripod with no head.

I second the medium format option. For your budget, a Pentax 67 with a 45 and 135 macro lens would be a great option. Not the lightest, but solid.

Tim Meisburger
29-Nov-2011, 22:54
I have never shot 8x10, but I've spent a fair amount of time in Nepal, and if you want to do it, take an 8x10, I say go for it. Why not?

Since you will be mostly in Kathmandu, I think you can shoot mostly black and white, but if you go out in the mountains you might want color. I initially was drawn to LF by dissatisfaction with my 35mm stuff from a trek in Nepal, and there was one waterfall that cried out for a 4x5 transparency. It would be even better in 8x10, but think of the expense, and make sure there is a lab in Katmandu that can process your color film, as I would not recommend trying to go through too many airports with exposed film. Its possible it you are careful and argumentative, but difficult and stressfull.

Have fun!

Tim

John Kasaian
29-Nov-2011, 23:11
You know what you want to do. Just do it. Problems cry out for solutions. Sella took much larger cameras--take a look at his stuff for inspiration ;)

Frank Petronio
29-Nov-2011, 23:16
Have Bulldog mail you an 8x10 kit and build it there, then sell or give it to a local tog when you leave ;-)

Tony Karnezis
30-Nov-2011, 00:14
I took an 8x10 kit to Greece a few years ago. The kit consisted of a Kodak Master, 2 lenses (19" Red Dot Artar, Nikkor M 300/9), Ries tripod (J600/A250), 8 holders, spare ground glass, changing tent and film. I checked in everything except the film and lenses since I figured thieves want digital, not LF. Everything came through unscathed.

As others have emphasized, lugging around everything it takes to shoot 8x10 can be very tiring. 4x5 is a walk in the park in comparison. It made me realize how fatigue inhibits creativity. Consider that.

You have already received lots of good suggestions on gear. Don't underestimate the value of extra film holders. You'll kick yourself if you find a great subject but can't photograph it because you ran out of film on hand.

Whatever you settle on, have a great time.

dsphotog
30-Nov-2011, 01:26
For travel shooting, when not a lot of movements are needed.... Kodak 2-D, light, & affordable. Quick to set up since it folds without removing the lens.

Armin Seeholzer
30-Nov-2011, 03:15
Thanks for the tip! I noticed he said there's not a ton of room for movements. Any chance you'd know if there was enough for ~2-3cm of rise?

Excactly as Oren has already stated, its also in my opinion a bit on the short side, recomand the APO Sironar S it has 43mm shift and this is more usefull and its the sharpest lens I own.
For lightwight the G-Glaron which I also have is an other option but it gets a bit soft on the corners after 3 cm of shift and you have to stop it down quite a bit to get 3cm shift!
I also recomand to go with your 4x5 because you already know the machine!

Cheers Armin

gliderbee
30-Nov-2011, 06:00
Strange that nobody suggested using 5x7: nearly 4 times bigger then 4x5, the cameras are not that much bigger and/or heavier than 4x5 (and certainly not when comparing with 8x10) and 5x7 is imo a very decent contactprint.

The only disadvantage is that there's less choice in films.

Stefan.

MDR
30-Nov-2011, 06:25
I have to second gliderbee's advice 5x7 is a beautiful contact printing format not too big and not too small. Film choice might be a problem but on the other hand you won't have to carry a ton of equipment. Older 5x7 Field cameras (Korona or similar) can be found quiet cheap.

Dominik

Steven Tribe
30-Nov-2011, 09:09
I think you should check the dimensions allowed for hand cabin bagage and work from there. I managed to pack a 13x18 and a 18x24 camera and escaped all the nervousness of lost hold bagage.
Full plate or 18x24 does have size advantages over 8x10.

Ben Syverson
30-Nov-2011, 11:58
8x10 is a slam dunk for what you want to do. Don't bring 4x5. You'll kick yourself later.

Shooting while traveling can be unnerving, and 8x10 is simply much easier to use than 4x5. The GG is bigger, a small focusing error is less noticeable, and it's generally less fiddly.

Weight doesn't have to be an issue. Use a few T-shirts and underwear as padding for the 8x10 in your bag, and buy clothes when you get there. Take an iPhone, iPad or MacBook Air, in that order of preference, but only if you absolutely have to. If you're ruthless and strategic, you should be able to get everything you need for the trip, including 8x10 and tripod, into one carryon backpack that weighs less than 20 lbs / 10k.

You can load and download film in a windowless bathroom at night. If your bathroom has windows, tape a black shirt to the window (bring a 1-2m length of 1" gaff tape wrapped around a film canister or tripod leg) and use the backpack as a makeshift changing bag.

The tripod is Gitzo 15XX Traveler series (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759477-REG/). The knockoff Benro version is heavier and not much cheaper.

People will say you're crazy not to use a Pelican flight case, or a "real" tripod, or fill in the blank ______ "necessary" equipment. Well, those people wind up traveling with point and shoots and DSLRs.

Frank Petronio
30-Nov-2011, 15:01
Ben, Wasn't that was the same tripod used in the Luminous Landscape test to compare the quality of 8x10 film to a medium format digital back?

I'm assuming you're just messing around and Chris has the sense to know better.

It's like shooting at 1/4 second handheld at f/1.4 whilst drunk in a bar at 4am. Yes it can be done and it has been done. But it's funny how the results never see the light of day, unless the tog likes abstracts and calls it art.

Ben Syverson
30-Nov-2011, 16:03
The ballhead matters more than the legs... As long as the legs can hold the weight, you're fine! CF absorbs vibrations.

If you really need to do 2 minute exposures in a windstorm, you can't use an 8x10 field camera anyway.

Fred L
30-Nov-2011, 16:16
Hey Ben,

Unless things have changed in New Zealand, he's allowed no more than 7 kg carry on. That's 15 lbs all in and based on my wife's experience there, they are hard about that weight limit and WILL make you meet that, no ifs ands or buts.

No way in hell would I check in my 8x10 unless it was something that absolutely required that format. Add to that, the weight of holders, film etc.. I have a friend working in Nepal and if I recall correctly, getting things posted there was nerve wracking so keep that in mind.

The only way I would ship an 8x10 would be in a Pelican (1650 has always worked for me and my long lenses, tripods and monopods etc etc). ymmv

cosmicexplosion
30-Nov-2011, 16:36
how about all the film holders, tripod etc in main luggage and camera and lens in carry on bag?

Paul Fitzgerald
30-Nov-2011, 16:44
Argentum ' Excursor I ' 8x10 camera (2.1 kg), don't know your budget but should fill the bill for size and weight. If you change the GG to plexi it would be even lighter and almost un-breakable. :D

To go even lighter, leave the ball head at home and mount directly to the tripod.

Argentum cameras (http://argentumcamera.com/eng/pages/other/catalogues.htm)

Tony Karnezis
30-Nov-2011, 17:36
Argentum ' Excursor I ' 8x10 camera (2.1 kg)...

2.1 kg is a bit disingenuous--that's without the film back. I don't remember the last time I used my camera without it. They should simply list the weight with either of the two backs they offer. Either way, it's a light camera.

Maris Rusis
30-Nov-2011, 17:52
The Tachihara 810GF double extension field view camera weighs 4.7 Kilograms. I carry a Tachihara for mountain photography and my back pack with camera, lenses, 5 film holders, focussing cloth. etc, etc, plus tripod comes to 24 Kilograms. Even without the camera that's a lot of weight. Fortunately the effort is worth it.

atlcruiser
30-Nov-2011, 18:33
Thanks for the nice words on the 240.I just traded it off!

I would NOT have suggessted it for your trip. Some movements and you could make it work but I see big vistas and tha tloens will not give enough room to move around very much.

FWIIW: A kodak master view is perfect. sturdy, not too heavy, not complicated, lighter than a deardorff, might find one for $1500 or so. I would grab a 300 or a 360 with lots of room on it. Thsi shit is heavy and bulky. It will cost to ship it with you and cost to ship ahead of you. it really boils down to how much you wnat to pay for the pleasure of using the 810 :)

if you ar eleaving in march just get a camera ASAP. Dont get too caught up in the "best" possible camera/lens combo. The one you are used to and know how to use is much better than a lighter one you get the night before you fly out :)

evan clarke
30-Nov-2011, 18:42
Hi Chris,
My neighbor and photo buddy has the 2 stage Tachi and it's an extremely manageable package. I have 3 8x10s and a Chamonix 11x14 so am familiar with the weight aspects of medium large cameras.The Tachi is a really good value and is well made. Another option is the non folding Shen Hao FLC..the link... https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3146

Cheers and good luck..Evan Clarke

Ben Calwell
30-Nov-2011, 19:03
I can relate to the comment that "fatigue inhibits creativity." On my 61st birthday this year, I went on a photo excursion, taking my 8x10 Kodak 2D and Linhof 5x7 cameras. Wrestling with the 2D, which is really not all that heavy, sort of tuckered me out. I found myself bypassing scenes that, in a better state of energy, I would have photographed.
These days, my light weight Wista 4X5 is looking pretty good, as is, God help me, my little pipsqueak Nikon D40....

Ben Syverson
30-Nov-2011, 20:06
Unless things have changed in New Zealand, he's allowed no more than 7 kg carry on.
This will vary by airline, but I've never seen 7 kg before... In the US, I've seen 25 lbs, and in Europe and Asia, I've seen 10 kg.

In any event, carryon weight limits are rarely enforced. They care more about the size of the bag and whether or not it'll fit in the overhead bins.

Also, if you don't have to check a bag, you often don't have to go to the ticket counter. If you don't go to the ticket counter, it's much harder for them to weigh your bag.

Fred L
30-Nov-2011, 20:29
All I know is my wife and others got called out for weight limits a couple of years ago and it was just New Zealand. Going to aus ? no probs. No idea why they have such low limits.

I checked things out after hearing her story and it seems North American carriers have relatively high limits on carry on whereas most internationals are almost half or even less. Go figure. It would suck to have to gate check an 8x10 camera or worse, repack.

In my travels, I always presume I'm going to get singled out for carry on checks.

Frank Petronio
30-Nov-2011, 20:30
Also, if you don't have to check a bag, you often don't have to go to the ticket counter. If you don't go to the ticket counter, it's much harder for them to weigh your bag.

He'd going for three months! Thats like 93 pairs of underwear....

Chris C
30-Nov-2011, 20:44
Thanks for all this info so far guys.

I'm slowly getting my head around all this and 8x10 is still my top priority, if I can make it work. I've got a list of lenses to keep an eye on now (The 250 Fujinon being the top contender) so I think that's sorted.

With regards to carry-on weight, Air New Zealand can be a little over enthusiastic about policing this and I've been caught out before (I just took my Pentax 67 out of my bag and carried it on as my "bag +1 item" and somehow that was fine) but it doesn't happen much more than it does. I haven't encountered it for a couple of years now but there's always ways around it. A carry on bag and a shopping bag is something all airlines allow, which makes the whole thing stupid, or I could just wrap something up in a jacket. But seeing as tripods have to be checked I won't worry about checking something else with it to keep weight down if I need to.

I'm also not too worried about being weighed down while I'm there. I won't be shooting LF every day (realistically probably only a couple of days a week max) and I'm full of youth and know the environment pretty well.


Argentum ' Excursor I ' 8x10 camera (2.1 kg), don't know your budget but should fill the bill for size and weight. If you change the GG to plexi it would be even lighter and almost un-breakable. :D

To go even lighter, leave the ball head at home and mount directly to the tripod.
I've never heard of these guys before, but this exactly what I'm looking for. A quick hunt around has a couple of favourable reviews for their cameras and the weight even with a back is really good. Thanks a bunch for posting it. Have you used one before?

Oren Grad
30-Nov-2011, 20:49
I've never heard of these guys before, but this exactly what I'm looking for. A quick hunt around has a couple of favourable reviews for their cameras and the weight even with a back is really good. Thanks a bunch for posting it. Have you used one before?

If you think you might be interested in an Argentum, send them a query now. I wouldn't be surprised if they build to order, in which case your lead time might be tight.

Frank Petronio
30-Nov-2011, 21:00
You really need to be shooting 8x10 -- and have it "down" -- before you go....

Ben Syverson
30-Nov-2011, 21:21
If he's shooting 4x5 now, I'm sure he'll be fine... 8x10 is just 4x5 with more breathing room

neil poulsen
30-Nov-2011, 21:22
I'm wondering about a Kodak 2D as a possibility? They are reasonably priced.

I have one that I'm currently fixing up to use. Keith at CustomBellows.co.uk is going to make me a new bellows for 190 BPS. I have a Sinar sized reduction board that I'm going to use to make an adapter for front tilt. Keith is going to provide the material for that little bit of front bellows as well. Total cost of my "restoration" should be less than about $500, including shipping. I expect that the total weight will be about 11 lbs, including the extension rail. I'll have 27" of bellows extension.

I can't say how well this system will work until it's done. But, having front tilt will make a significant difference. No shift, though.

Paul Fitzgerald
1-Dec-2011, 06:24
"I've never heard of these guys before, but this exactly what I'm looking for. A quick hunt around has a couple of favourable reviews for their cameras and the weight even with a back is really good. Thanks a bunch for posting it. Have you used one before?"

Hope it's a help.

No, I have never used one, looks simple enough with the sliding focus. Too bad they don't make their ' Architec I ' in 8x10.

Hope you get it sorted out in time for your trip.

Fred L
1-Dec-2011, 07:26
Very interesting design and philosophy. The sliding focus method is very intriguing and I'm trying to figure out how difficult it might be to fine focus without gears or rack and pinion.

Can't imagine the back would add that much more weight. I'd love to see one of these cameras up close.

rdenney
1-Dec-2011, 07:28
You know what you want to do. Just do it. Problems cry out for solutions. Sella took much larger cameras--take a look at his stuff for inspiration ;)

I'm with John. If you are "young and stupid" (your terms), then now is the time, rather than waiting until you are older and too smart for your own good like most of us. (I would take a Pentax 6x7--not much lighter but much easier.)

The camera itself does not matter. The great is the enemy of the good. Get whatever deal you can afford right now on a competent camera, and then learn it well enough to make it work. The camera you have now will be far less of a risk than the Ritter you buy for $200 a week before you leave.

When I flew to New Zealand 12 years ago, the carry-on weight limit was 5 Kg, not 7. That makes a difference! If you carry the camera in your luggage, find a way to protect the ground glass, which is far more vulnerable than on a 4x5.

Rick "don't forget the changing tent" Denney

rdenney
1-Dec-2011, 07:35
The ballhead matters more than the legs... As long as the legs can hold the weight, you're fine! CF absorbs vibrations.

If you really need to do 2 minute exposures in a windstorm, you can't use an 8x10 field camera anyway.

Carbon composites only absorb high-frequency vibrations, and then only some of those. At low frequencies (breeze-induced rather than shutter-induced), they are just about as springy as metal.

But hanging a bag of locally procured sand from the center post will address most of those concerns.

Rick "who travels with a moderately sized CF tripod and a ball-head, but not for large format" Denney

Bill_1856
1-Dec-2011, 07:41
It ain't just the camera, it's the tripod that's going to be a real problem.

rdenney
1-Dec-2011, 07:49
This will vary by airline, but I've never seen 7 kg before... In the US, I've seen 25 lbs, and in Europe and Asia, I've seen 10 kg.

In any event, carryon weight limits are rarely enforced. They care more about the size of the bag and whether or not it'll fit in the overhead bins.

Also, if you don't have to check a bag, you often don't have to go to the ticket counter. If you don't go to the ticket counter, it's much harder for them to weigh your bag.

Straight from Air New Zealand's Mouth. (http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/cabin-baggage)

This is more forgiving than it was when I went there in 2000.

I traveled 75,000 miles this year, all U.S. domestic. Normally, I can pack for up to 10 days with a carry-on and a briefcase. Those are allowed as carry-ons in the U.S., but given the size of my briefcase, Air NZ would require me to check the rolling bag. And neither bag is anywhere close to 7 Kg. Note the specific restriction for travelers come from or through the U.S.

Our OP is going to be there for three months, and he will be stationed in one place for that time. He'll also be working. Traveling light and free is not in the cards for him on this trip. Suck it up and check the bags needed.

I bought matching camera bags for my wife and myself when we went to New Zealand--ultralight Tamrac "journalist" bags. I took a Canon Elan II (mostly plastic) and several lenses of the plastic-barreled type, plus film and essential accessories. I came in mere grams under their more restrictive weight limit of that time, and they did indeed check. Everything else went into the hold.

As for buying clothes after arriving, that depends on the OP's size.

Rick "who is 6 feet, 235 pounds, and wears size 15 shoes--buying non-custom clothing in most of Asia is just not going to happen" Denney

Fred L
1-Dec-2011, 08:03
ha ha, travel in biz class and problem solved ;)

E. von Hoegh
1-Dec-2011, 08:07
If he's shooting 4x5 now, I'm sure he'll be fine... 8x10 is just 4x5 with more breathing room

If you're doing landscapes and so on, that's about right. Sort of.

Start working closer in, and it's a different beast entirely.

Frank Petronio
1-Dec-2011, 08:16
No offense to Ben but it's bullshit to say that 8x10 is easy or that you can use a toy travel tripod meant for DSLRs with an 8x10. Sure you can, but it negates much of the quality that makes 8x10 "better" than a smaller format. If you go with super-light but heavily compromised gear then you're just going to get slightly blurry, second-rate pictures at best, stuff that might just as well been done with a smaller camera. At that point the only benefit of 8x10 is the awkward performance art of using it - civilians will be impressed. The pictures will look good at 1000-pixels wide on your Tumblr. Whoopee.

Since I'm being obnoxious anyway, I'll just repeat in my cranky old fart voice, it's nuts to get an 8x10 outfit at the last minute and then try to use it for an extended trip. There is a personal workflow that needs to be figured out and that takes at least a few boxes of film to find it.

You might just as well get one of those plywood 8x10 pinhole cameras than to do it halfass.

Fred L
1-Dec-2011, 08:23
Another thought and thanks to Rick for bringing it back to the forefront.

Chris is going overseas for 3 months so chances are he's bring a boatload of stuff with him. In this case, stuffing 8x10 and other associated gear in the case or what have you leaves you to carry on all your film and maybe lenses.

fwiw I'm still in favor of a big arse Pelican or similar hard shell for EVERYTHING lol

John Kasaian
1-Dec-2011, 08:36
Remember if you carry on a folding 8x10, you can fit your lens and one film holder "in situ" :)

A very lightwieght 8x10 is the Gowland Pocket Model monorail. So llight it will likely work on a 4x5 sized tripod (I've used myGowland 810 Aerial on a 4x5 tripod on occassion and it worked fine)

Two23
1-Dec-2011, 08:41
The flipside to the weight issue is just giving up on my 8x10 dream for a little while and picking up a Chamonix 4x5 for the trip. I'd be able to fit all my camera gear in a Domke F2 doing this, but 8x10's been alluring me for far too long now…

I have a Chamonix 045n-1 and really love it. It's incredibly light--I compare it to my Nikon D300! Everything about it (lenses, holders) makes it compact and probably ideal for how you'll use it. They can also be snagged for well under $1,000 leaving room for a decent lens with movements. The smaller size would also make it easier to use in the wind. If you are really stuck on 8x10 (despite never using it?) I would probably just buy a used Chamonix and then resell it when I got back. From what I've seen, Chamonix is really where it's at for the combination of light weight and value. Shen Hao isn't too far behind.


Kent in SD

Ben Syverson
1-Dec-2011, 09:08
No offense to Ben but it's bullshit to say that 8x10 is easy or that you can use a toy travel tripod meant for DSLRs with an 8x10. Sure you can, but it negates much of the quality that makes 8x10 "better" than a smaller format. If you go with super-light but heavily compromised gear then you're just going to get slightly blurry, second-rate pictures at best, stuff that might just as well been done with a smaller camera. At that point the only benefit of 8x10 is the awkward performance art of using it - civilians will be impressed. The pictures will look good at 1000-pixels wide on your Tumblr. Whoopee.
You never need to worry about offending me! In fact, I'm sure most people would agree with you... Which is why they end up traveling with a D90 or a Powershot. :D

I don't use long exposures, because I favor wider stops. With any LF camera, you pull the darkslide and then WAIT for 5 or 10 seconds to let any vibration settle down. It doesn't matter how good your tripod is, because your camera itself has flex and will vibrate when you insert a filmholder and pull a darkslide. Worrying about tripods is "small format thinking," based on the need to enlarge 10X or more. The OP is actually contact printing!

Sharpness isn't the #1 reason I shoot 8x10. In fact, it's fourth or fifth. I shoot 8x10 because I love the overall look. The lenses, the DOF, the unbelievably smooth tonality. So what if I bring back a negative that is almost imperceptibly softer at 2400 DPI than if I had used a Sinar and 10 lb tripod? I actually got the shot, while the Sinar user who would have done it "right" never leaves the studio and travels with a Coolpix.

And I have to put my foot down. 8x10 is easy. :D It's easier than 4x5. Yeah, you have less DOF up close, but it's also easier to focus, because the GG is so much larger. And if you miss the focus by X amount, it's less critical than if you miss a 4x5 by X amount, because you're not blowing up 8x10 as much. There's nothing mystical about 8x10 that makes it more challenging than 4x5!

Frank Petronio
1-Dec-2011, 12:43
OK I see your point. I don't exactly go out and drum scan my 8x10s (or smaller) to make 2gb files to make Gursky-worthy prints myself. And I admit that a lot of what compels me to use large format for portraiture is not image quality but presence and how the subjects respond.

I still think putting an 8x10 on a wee tiny Gitzo is crazy. He'd be better off buying a sacrificial $100 tripod and having it shipped ahead. In fact that would be the best way to handle most of this adventure, a lot less headaches to just have a hotel or friend hold it. I bet a Nepalese photographer would love to do this as a favor in exchange for some prints/gear/that tripod....

eddie
1-Dec-2011, 16:51
kodak 2d. i got one FS
Ansco 8x10. again one FS

both about 12 pounds.

tripod? buy in BKK on the way through or Kathmandu. should be able to get one easily.

bring it. hire a porter. take all the camera shit and some beer! why not. do not listen to the fuddy duddies here.

i had a great time in nepal. they are well used to large heavy crap to be carried up and down mountains.

eddie

Drew Bedo
3-Dec-2011, 05:46
Nepal . . .Why not stick with 4x5 and get a Gowland Pocket vVew? They store small and the weight is ounces not pounds (well they are very light anyway!)

Justin Cormack
3-Dec-2011, 08:17
No, I have never used one, looks simple enough with the sliding focus. Too bad they don't make their ' Architec I ' in 8x10.

I expect he would if you asked - the designs are a starting point for customization, and everythign is made to order.

Paul Fitzgerald
3-Dec-2011, 09:45
"I expect he would if you asked - the designs are a starting point for customization, and everythign is made to order."

Justin, that's not customizing, that's a 4x expansion to 8x10.

Besides I'm as old and cheap as dirt and do have a spare Ansco 5x7 Studio Portrait camera that would be very easy to convert to 8x10. Already have the back, just need to build the front and bellows. Would also add front shift to it.

Too many toys and NO time.

Peter York
3-Dec-2011, 11:06
If I were in the same position, I would be taking an ultralight 4x5 like the Gowland or Toho...

But if you are set on 8x10, the Century Universal is worth considering: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/century/century_universal_8x10.html

It is relatively light (approx. 9 lbs.) and inexpensive. The bellows are triple extension and the camera has a lot of movements. It is basically a wooden Master View.

Pawlowski6132
3-Dec-2011, 13:41
Contact printing will be easier than enlarging how?

Ben Syverson
3-Dec-2011, 14:24
If you don't maintain a 4x5 enlarger, which can be large, 8x10 contact printing is significantly easier than enlarging 4x5.

Pawlowski6132
3-Dec-2011, 22:25
If you don't maintain a 4x5 enlarger, which can be large, 8x10 contact printing is significantly easier than enlarging 4x5.

And why is that?

Ben Syverson
4-Dec-2011, 02:08
...because an 8x10 contact printing setup is much smaller and simpler than a 4x5 enlarging setup.

That's why.

Cor
4-Dec-2011, 03:32
If you don't maintain a 4x5 enlarger, which can be large, 8x10 contact printing is significantly easier than enlarging 4x5.

Disregarding equipment requirements I actually find enlarging 4*5 easier than contact printing 8*10, as far as dust control, cropping, dodging and burning is concerned..

Best,

Cor

Pawlowski6132
4-Dec-2011, 07:20
Disregarding equipment requirements I actually find enlarging 4*5 easier than contact printing 8*10, as far as dust control, cropping, dodging and burning is concerned..

Best,

Cor

That's my point considering the op already has a 4x5 enlarger.

john biskupski
4-Dec-2011, 11:07
I may be wrong, but isn't the op's planned trip to one of the windiest places on earth? A lightweight 8x10 and lightweight tripod doesn't exactly fit with that environment. Sounds more suitable for the Linhof Technika. Also, a longer lens is great for mountainscapes, but a real weight problem with 8x10 backpacking. On 4x5 a 450 Fuji C would be a great lens to take, if you have the bellows for it.

el french
4-Dec-2011, 11:52
It seems obvious the only solution will be to take both 4x5 and 8x10. If the 8x10 turns out to be too difficult to work with in the field, then you can fall back to the 4x5. Donate both to a school or a charity at the conclusion of the trip. You may even find people willing to donate cameras for you to deliver and teach residents how to use.

Chris C
10-Dec-2011, 19:25
Right, thought I'd give you guys a bit of an update seeing as you've all provided a lot of help so far (thanks!)

I've ordered an Argentum 8x10 and I'm on the waiting list. Unfortunately the waiting list is going to be 18 months or so, so I won't have it by the time I leave for this trip. I'm ok with that. It's absolutely what I want in an 8x10 and will suit me and what I shoot/how I shoot right to the core. I'm excited.
Because of this and what the other available and affordable 8x10 options are at the moment, I'm probably going to forego taking an 8x10 away with me this time. There's always (and will be a) next time, and I'm now going to spend a few weeks jumping on and off trains and wandering around India on my way home too, so having a photographic set up that's a bit more fleeting than what a 5kg+ camera and everything that goes with it will be is going to make my life so much easier. I'll either look for a cheap Speed graphic in the meantime and match it with my FM2n or just head on over with my FM2n and my Pentax 67. So long as everything fits in a Domke F2 I'll be happy.

mdm
10-Dec-2011, 20:21
I travelled 3 months in the Karakorum with a Nikon F65, thats ok, but in hindsight I would have loved it to have been a MF, print size is too small. A 35mm camera is really just dead weight.

Robert Crigan
13-Dec-2011, 02:13
I've been trekking with 810 and 45. With both formats my cameras of choice are Nagaoka. They're more than adequate providing you don't treat them like studio monorails.
Wait for any light breeze to die down, wait for the camera to settle and you'll be rewarded with marvellous photos.
Good luck
Robert

Steve Smith
13-Dec-2011, 02:59
Strange that nobody suggested using 5x7: nearly 4 times bigger then 4x5

8x10 is 4 times bigger than 4x5 in area. 5x7 isn't even double. i.e. 35 sq. inches vs. 20 sq. inches.

A good point though.


Steve.