When not Photoshop then what ... ?

[Matus Kalisky]

Hello, first of all - I do not want to start flaming around Adobe and their policies. I do not have the need. But eligibility of my CS3 is fading, so to say, and paying around 800€ for a new version is out of question unfortunately. I am not looking for a free of charge solution - if I could get CS5 for 200€ or 300€ I would, but I am not a student anymore.

So - what I would like to hear is what kind of photo editing software (other than Photoshop) do you use and, importantly what features are you missing (relative to Photoshop) and what is your work around.

Tools I used most in CS3 are: Layers and masks, dust spotting, dodging, burning, batch processing, cloning, lens corrections (remove distortions and adjusting converging lines), noise suppression, color corrections, levels, curves, conversions to BW (via channel mixer), toning, 16 bit processing, stitching to panoramas, HDR (just a little, I am not happy how the CS3 does this).

Oh, and I am an OS-X user.

[Sevo]

What is wrong with sticking with CS3? Graphic artists and the like may need the latest version to be compatible with whatever their clients throw at them, but any CS version has more features than a photographer really requires.

[Brian Ellis]

Have you considered Photoshop Elements? I don't use it myself but I have friends who do and it seems to work well for them. While Photoshop has become something of a standard, I doubt that most photographers actually use more than a relatively small portion of its features and capabilities.

[Brent Long]

What is wrong with sticking with CS3? Graphic artists and the like may need the latest version to be compatible with whatever their clients throw at them, but any CS version has more features than a photographer really requires.

I'm still on CS. I think a potential problem is that it will become more and more difficult to keep older versions running with newer and newer OS and hardware. Compatibility issues will push you to newer versions faster than a lack of capability.

[Matus Kalisky]

I'm still on CS. I think a potential problem is that it will become more and more difficult to keep older versions running with newer and newer OS and hardware. Compatibility issues will push you to newer versions faster than a lack of capability.

That is also my concern (I am actually fine with CS3). I am still on OS-X 10.5 (Leopard) and consider moving to Snow Leopard (my scanner would probably not yet work with Lion and I have heard less than encouraging comments on it) and as I do not have any installation CD (it was a net install from University) I may be left without any usable software.

A few more questions:
- What features are missing in Photoshop Elements?
- Which other programs are capable of reading .PSD format?

[Frank Petronio]

I agree that Adobe has turned into a lousy company that dominates the creative app market. I've looked around and unfortunately there isn't anything that really allows you the fluidity, professionalism, and image quality of a Lightroom-Photoshop-InDesign workflow. All the alternatives compromise one or more aspects....

I would gladly drop $500 on a good alternative in a heartbeat.

In the meantime, I think it is worth it to suck it up and take it. It is like QuarkXpress in the 1990s, it was awful software with a awful upgrade cycle ($100 for a worthless "compatibility" upgrade every nine months or your older files couldn't be read by your dutiful client's newer version).

[Ben Syverson]

CS3 is Universal, so it should be fine in Snow Leopard and Lion. I don't know what scanner you're using, but unless you have a drum scanner, VueScan is the only scanning program you'll ever need.

Pixelmator opens PSD files, and some people really like it. Unfortunately, it can't handle really giant files such as 4x5 and 8x10 scans.

[Brent Long]

Matus, just to be clear, you are not upgrade eligible, right? Are you sure there is no inexpensive way for you to get it?

[Sevo]

- What features are missing in Photoshop Elements?
- Which other programs are capable of reading .PSD format?

Photoshop Elements isn't actually missing that many features you might need for straightforward photography. But the last version I received bundled with some camera or scanner was restricted to a RGB colour model and could barely cope with 120MB files - that will be critical for large format work, unless the latest version has been improved...

If all you need is PSD reading and straightforward photo correction, Lightroom might be good enough.

In any case, if you want to get PE or Lightroom, these are significantly discounted this weekend - in Germany 40% down at Adobe store, and even cheaper (presumably by saving some of the ridiculously high Irish VAT) at http://www.edv-buchversand.de/adobe.

[Matus Kalisky]

- Frank -
Somebody had to spoil my hopes, I know :D Of course I will try to keep using Photoshop, but it may well happen that in few months I will not so I started to look for possible alternatives. I make no income from photography (not enough time to make the effort at least for some occasional stuff, it is not easy as far as I have read around). I may be lucky in the future, but now it would not be an option to buy full CS(X).

- Ben -
I am mainly concerned for the case if I would need to re-install the CS3 - that I can not do.

I use the Microtek F1 with SilverFast Studio. But Vuescan would be an option I guess.

- Brent -
No, unfortunately not. And honestly I would hesitate to get a cracked version (always possible as we know). Somehow does not feel right.

- Sevo -
I will have a look at Elements - maybe there is a trial version to try out. I am trying to avoid working on files larger than 100 - 200 MB (for 4x5 I mostly use a scaled down "slaves" for most adjustments and only go back to full size with adjustment layers)

Actually - concerning large files - what is the deal with handling them? Is 100MB a large file today?

Can Lightroom use layers?

[Ben Syverson]

Matus,

A 100 MB TIFF file is relatively small. A 4x5 scan at 2400 DPI is over 300 MB in 8 bit.

Photoshop (not sure about Elements) actually tiles images internally, so that it almost never needs to load the entire image at once. That cuts down on RAM use. It's the reason why the print industry was able to deal with giant drum scans in the early 90s, on computers with 128 MB of RAM.

As long as you're not switching computers, your CS3 license should remain intact when you upgrade the OS. But I would do some Googling to see if anyone ran into problems, just to be on the safe side.

[bdkphoto]

Lightroom would be a good choice, it will do about 80% of what you are asking and works seamlessly with PS. Since it is PIE ware you have the advantage of non-destructive workflow.

[Armin Seeholzer]

What about GIMP it can almost every thing what PS can and it cost just nothing because its open source!
I'm also an Adobe hater since I could in the past not downgrade from CS 2 premium suite just to PS CS I had to buy a new full version of PS , this is for me mafia like!!!

Cheers Armin

[false_Aesthetic]

Hommé,

There's a few things in CS 4-5.5 that rock but they're not really necessary unless you're doing major retouching work.

A few of my friends have, in the past, registered for classes at a local college when they've needed/wanted to upgrade their copies of creative suite. Once they get the documentation, they've dropped their classes (with full refund) and gone on their way.

While it may not be totally ethical . . . they are appeasing adobe's requirements to get that discount.

[r.e.]

That is also my concern (I am actually fine with CS3). I am still on OS-X 10.5 (Leopard) and consider moving to Snow Leopard (my scanner would probably not yet work with Lion and I have heard less than encouraging comments on it) and as I do not have any installation CD (it was a net install from University) I may be left without any usable software.

As far as I can figure out, what this comes down to is that you don't want to pay to upgrade your operating system, now two iterations behind, which you got as part of your original computer purchase, nor to buy a copy of CS, given that it looks like you are using a copy of CS3 that you got years ago for free from your university and that you can't upgrade.

If you don't want to pay for software, your eventual solution is Linux and GIMP. But that is, in my respectful view, a shortsighted solution.

I assume that you know that the cost of upgrading your operating system is marginal and that access to CS5 can now be rented by the month.

[Ben Syverson]

Just bite the bullet and purchase the program. You are already used to it and know much of how it works. Why not stick with it?
Because Adobe announced plans to screw their customers out of an upgrade. If you want the upcoming CS6, you need to be upgrading from CS5 or CS5.5. So a person who bought Photoshop CS4 in 2008 or CS3 in 2007 at full retail will be forced to buy Photoshop at full retail again. If you're a photographer who simply didn't need any of the new features introduced in the past few years (which, let's face it, is most of us), that feels like a serious slap in the face.

That's why Scott Kelby of the National Association of Photoshop Professionals wrote this open letter to Adobe (http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2011/archives/22903), expressing his extreme displeasure at Adobe's actions.

If you own CS4 or CS3, you have three options. Option 1, buy an upgrade to CS5.5 right now, even if you don't want or need it, just to ensure you stay eligible for ugrades. Option 2, buy a full version of CS6 or CS7 later—right now, CS5.5 costs €1,010.31 in the E.U., US$1,359.17 equivalent. By the way, that's NOT the Extended version. Option 3, you can stop using Photoshop altogether.

So you can see that's it's not as simple as "bite the bullet." Some users feel that they're being extorted. Given the lack of viable alternatives (hey, Photoshop really is still the best), it's easy to sympathize with that position.

[Brian Ellis]

What's CS5.5? Is that just another name for CS5 Extended or did Adobe come out with an upgrade to CS5 that I missed?

[r.e.]

What's CS5.5? Is that just another name for CS5 Extended or did Adobe come out with an upgrade to CS5 that I missed?

CS 5.5 is an upgrade announced last spring in conjunction with its plan that allows people to rent use of Creative Suite.

[Frank Petronio]

CS5.5 offers nothing to us.

We're stuck for now but I bet there are many thousands who would gladly jump ship for a capable alternative.

[Ben Syverson]

CS 5.5 is an upgrade announced last spring in conjunction with its plan that allows people to rent use of Creative Suite.
Another genius idea... Instead of buying a $300 upgrade every other year, you can pay just $50 per month!

[Daniel Stone]

here's another option:
enroll in a local community college photo program(or another class, say 1x/week you can enjoy), and once you have your student i.d. card, march over to adobe and demand the student discount :). Many community colleges here in the USA(at least the ones I've attended locally) carry Adobe products in the "student store". If you're a student w/ an active student id, you can get it for the student-level pricing. Its the only way I could afford CS4 at the time it came out... And its still way more than I need 95% of the time

-Dan

EDIT: you don't have to remain a student from semester to semester, you can do a semester/term, get a class and a copy of your new PS upgrade(for a nice discount), and be on your merry way! "Rinse, dry, repeat" so to speak, every 2-3yrs or how often you want/need to "upgrade".

[Frank Petronio]

Sometimes some lame-sounding class can be a great deal. When I taught a digital imaging class at VSW years ago, they had a brand new (at the time) Espon 7000 and plenty of ink and paper for a modest lab fee. Since most of the students were too lazy to do anything - and the other "profs" didn't have any idea how to turn the scary thing one - the couple who did have it on the ball (and umm, the prof) printed like crazy for peanuts.

[J. Fada]

I have high hopes for Pixelmator in the future. One alternative that I haven't really explored yet is Hasselblad's Phocus software. It will open just about anything as far as I can tell, and it is FREE. You just have to give them your email.

Personally, I have the CS4 suite since I use other programs in it besides Photoshop, in fact I use almost all of them. My main program though is Lightroom. I used Aperture for a while, but settled on Lightroom, although until I bought a new computer a few months ago I still used Aperture with my IPhone pictures since the color was so much better. I am thinking about buying it again just for that. DPP from Canon is another program I use. I really only use Photoshop these days for advanced editing and cleaning up scans.

I agree with Frank. If someone comes out with capable software people will move to it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we were all using other software in a decade. I don't think Adobe's business model is going to last.

[Matus Kalisky]

- r.e. -
You must have misread my posts before - I do plan to upgrade my OS (though not to Lion for technical reasons - I will probably wait for the next updated there) and also the hardware (more RAW and new battery) and I would buy the Photoshop, but the price is out of my range now (maybe it will not be in a year from now).

There was a proposal to enroll some class to be eligible for student discount. Well - as far as I know one must really enroll a University to get that granted in Germany.

I actually hoped to hear a bit more about your experience with software other than Photoshop.

[Brent Long]

What about PaintShop Pro? I thought that did 16/48 bit images, but from their site it appears that I've mis-remembered. Google will have to guide you, and I'd say that 16/48 bit should be your guide, with layers being very important as well. It's going to be a compromise any way you go. Personally, I'd see what I could sell on Ebay, or extra work I could do for some extra cash. The only gripe that most people have with Photoshop is the price, and it's that way for a reason, ya know.

[Brent Long]

http://toyotadesigner.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/48-bit-or-16-bit-per-channel-image-editing-for-the-rest-of-us/

http://www.pl32.com/

And

http://www.dl-c.com/

[Matus Kalisky]

http://toyotadesigner.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/48-bit-or-16-bit-per-channel-image-editing-for-the-rest-of-us/

http://www.pl32.com/

And

http://www.dl-c.com/

Thanks! I will definitely try them out. The PhotoLine looks in particular interesting.

[Brent Long]

PhotoLine looks interesting to me, too. I downloaded it and will play with it when I get some time. Picture Window Pro was being used by Norman Koren, apparently to very good effect. He couldn't seem to recommend it highly enough.

[srbphoto]

if you want to try Elements you can pick it up for $50 this weekend at Staples. I finally tried it and was impressed. I don't know about the file size limitations but it was pretty good.

[Tyler Boley]

can you just migrate onto a new setup? Seems to work. PS3 is great, use it all the time on my older desktop. Unless you need newer camera support for ACR, I actually prefer some of the interface stuff thy changed later...
Tyler

[mdm]

I use Picture Window Pro, it is slightly eccentric but it does everything a normal photographer needs well. It is also very fast with big files. It cant handle cmyk but it is a true 16 bit editor unlike photoshop which I believe is not.

[toyotadesigner]

You might give PhotoLine a try. It is cheaper than PS Elements, but it offers 48bit editing. Just a 30 MB download, incredibly fast, small footprint on your HD.

http://www.pl32.com

Read more in my blog:

http://toyotadesigner.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/48-bit-or-16-bit-per-channel-image-editing-for-the-rest-of-us/

[Matus Kalisky]

Thank you. Brent already pointed me to your blog. I have just browsed through it but already caught my attention - will definitely try PhotoLine out.

[lawrencebrussel]

Photographing in a club is a passion that very few photographers tend to share amongst themselves. It needs a lot of passion to click in the din as the atmosphere in a Club is charged and almost everyone is high on the music. This is the place where one is sure to capture the energy and the mood that will be lacking while shooting in another environment. Clicking photos is quite a challenge in this highly energized setting as the photographer may be swayed by the high pitch of music, finding a way to the stage can be quite difficult and people will be banging to you while you are photographing.

[rdenney]

http://www.dl-c.com/

This looks quite interesting and seems to have a good feature set. I might install it and give it a try. I have been using PS for many years, and currently have CS4. Having to upgrade every single version number (at hundreds of dollars a pop) to stay in the upgrade chain is a burden.

Also, every upgrade ends up chewing a pile of time in a learning curve, because they always manage to move features around.

Some questions for those of you who have tried Picture Window:

Does it support quick and automatic stitching? I could live without transformations (i.e., for stitching scans of both ends of a 6x12 frame).

Do they have a list of the raw files it supports? I just had to download another upgrade of ACR to support the raw files from my little Leica D-Lux. I could not find any reference to that on their website, other than their provision of a raw converter.

Does it provide a browser-type viewer/organizer like Bridge?

Does it use a standard format? I gather it uses TIFF, which would be good.

Rick "who switched from Corel Photopaint to PS at version 5.0" Denney

[jp]

I use Gimp in Windows and Linux (and mostly use Windows for photo stuff) . I'm gonna give the pl32 a try; thanks for the link.

For raw files, I use Nikon Capture nx2. For panos, Hugin or Microsoft ice work well. Epson's scanner software for scanning. I have lightroom, but don't like it. Most of my computer work is dslr images, and Nikon's raw file special sauce secret recipe is better than others.

[Adamphotoman]

I just upgraded.
$570 including tax.
Visa Money that I still owe...
But I do have a FREE CS6 upgrade and it is for the Master Suit!

EXTORSION

6 years ago I bought the premium suit upgrade for $1700...

I did not want to do that again.

I upgraded from CS2

I could list the Upgrades but I don't know them all. YET!!!




CAPTURE 1 PRO is what I use for most of my D700 shots. Nikon Software is pathetic.



So Elements might be a good alt for some of YOU


I do not see an alternative.

[Darin Boville]

fyi, I just bought Photoshop Elements for my brother--about $50 at Amazon. Seems like an unusually good price.

--Darin