The shelf life of exposure meters?

[jm51]

Being newly enthused, I've been ebay stalking for a week or so and values have changed since I was last interested in film some 30+ years ago. :D

Weston was a drool over brand of meter back then but now they're going for chump change. Have they worn out? As in 'incapable of making an accurate or consistent reading' or is it just fashion?

Ideally I'd like a spot meter but they're spendy. What I used to do was point my cheapo meter at the palm of my hand close range and that gave me my 'Zone VI' reading.

Any suggestions as to what I should be looking for? As long as it is consistent, age or street cred is less important than price.

[Sevo]

Selenium cells do not age - but if their sealing fails (and in some cases, they are sealed with polyurethane compounds that have a limited lifetime), they soon succumb to oxidation. Apart from that, they last almost eternal, if well stored. Weston Masters and the Norwood/Brockway/Sekonic 398 series all have a reputation for longevity.

I fear we have more reasons to be concerned about ageing digital meters, as they contain components that don't age well regardless of storage or use - in particular the capacitors and LCD - while many more basic meters will barely age, unless worn out though use.

[Len Middleton]

Welcome back to film...

Others more knowledgeable may chime in, but it seems like metering off the palm of your hand will not be much different that taking a incident reading of the amount of light falling on that point.

A spotmter will provide the light reflected from various points in the scene, including the contrast range of the scene, or the amount of light reflected (and detail) from the shadows.

Just something you might want to consider before spending money on an inexpensive light meter, rather than a "spendy" spotmeter...

Good luck in your search and your re-exploration of the medium,

Len

[Louie Powell]

jm51 mentions the concerns about sealing.

If the meter uses a CdS cell you need to think about the kind of battery the mater takes. Meters that were manufactured 30+ years ago may have been designed for mercury batteries. They are no longer available. The available substitutes have a very short working life - 30 days or so. It is possible to have older meters modified to use silver batteries, but that increases your meter cost.

Spot meters are nice, you you can use an ordinary averaging meter - just walk closer to the scene and meter a small area.

[Len Middleton]

A spotmter will provide the light reflected from various points in the scene, including the contrast range of the scene, or the amount of light reflected (and detail) from the shadows.
Len

Louie's comment of going around and metering different parts of the scene is correct.

I should have mentioned in my comment above, "...metering various points quickly from one loction..." Important if the light is changing.

There are cheaper solutions than a dedicated spotmeter, including separate auxilary viewfinders for the old Minolta Flashmeter and Autometers, and of course for the traditional Gossen Luna series.

There is of course a reason that some photographers will pay the additional money for the more expensive meters, particularly looking at the time and expense involved in our choices. B&W 8x10 film from the main manufacturers is around $4 to $5 a sheet, so a good light meter might be a good investment, particularly if you decide on an unusual format (ULF or something that is special order).

There is also a good For Sale section that will be available to you once you are around here for 30 days or more.

Lots of options, just a matter of understanding them and the compromises involved.

[Jim Jones]

I still use selenium cell meters, but find many of them are no longer accurate. Yet, a few from 75 years ago still work fine. They were a luxury item back then. My first meter, a GE DW-58, cost a week's pay as a junior Navy enlisted man. It never worked right after I dropped it. Not only do the selenium cells sometimes deteriorate, but the armature can become unbalanced. This is less important in the GE as the axis of the armature is vertical. In the Norwood and Weston, an unbalanced armature will affect readings more. When buying these meters, that balance should be checked. Online sellers may not think (or choose) to do so.

[E. von Hoegh]

jm51 mentions the concerns about sealing.

If the meter uses a CdS cell you need to think about the kind of battery the mater takes. Meters that were manufactured 30+ years ago may have been designed for mercury batteries. They are no longer available. The available substitutes have a very short working life - 30 days or so. It is possible to have older meters modified to use silver batteries, but that increases your meter cost.

Spot meters are nice, you you can use an ordinary averaging meter - just walk closer to the scene and meter a small area.

If you use hearing aid cells, and block off 3 of the 4 air holes, they last for months. At least 5 months, which is how long the cell in my Nikkormat has lasted (so far). Wien cells are a waste of money. The best solution is one of the adapters to use silver oxide cells.

I have a pair of Weston Master III meters from the mid/late 1950s that are still going strong, an original Lunasix fron about 1960, and an early Weston from the late 1930s. All accurate and reliable.

[jm51]

There's a lot to learn.

I never sold a pic that didn't have a face from the customers family in it, this exposing for the shadows thing is going to be new territory for me. :)

afaik, the old mercury batteries had the advantage of being a consistent voltage right up till the day they died. Not so with the replacements although I suppose that can happen with the right electronics added. (Anyone else find it ironic that mercury batteries are banned but domestic lightbulbs containing mercury are encouraged?)

I wouldn't mind an old Pentax Spotmatic meter, are they selenium or cds?

[Ivan J. Eberle]

I've got a General Electric DW-58 selenium cell meter that's still the battery-free bee's knees, and very accurate. I recently had and sold a Pentax Spotmatic V that was also great but I didn't like the large form factor. (Pentax SMV was bigger to pack than an Olympus OM4 and lens--which happens to be a heck of a spotmeter with a camera included!).

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Meant Spotmeter V, not Spotmatic V...

[jm51]

Uh oh... Gear Acquisition Syndrome starting to form, I've just come across the SEI Photometer. What a beautiful piece of kit.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

And Pentax Spotmeter V's have Silicon Photo Diodes, much more sensitive to low light than either CdS or Selenium. Pentax later in the 70's also used Gallium Arsenide or GaAS cells which were pretty good too, in some of their cameras like an ME that I bought new. But they went back to Silicon cells for the LX camera. (Which was heralded for it's accurate long night auto-exposures.)

[Two23]

I bought a Zeiss Diaphot a month ago. It's very thin and pretty cool, but I can't find anywhere to put a battery in.


Kent in SD
;)

[Cor]

This is less important in the GE as the axis of the armature is vertical. In the Norwood and Weston, an unbalanced armature will affect readings more. When buying these meters, that balance should be checked. Online sellers may not think (or choose) to do so.

Jim,

I am afraid I do not follow you, what is a armature balance, is it the needle ?

I recently acquired a Sekonic L 398, but is off and not very consistent, I mostly bought it because it looked pretty, feels solid, and was supposed to be a battery less back up, but alas..buying unseen and untested..(cheap though)..


Best,

Cor

[Jim Jones]

Jim,

I am afraid I do not follow you, what is a armature balance, is it the needle ? . . .

It is the needle and coil of wire that move together. It must be quite light for adequate sensitivity, and therefore tends to be delicate. In the Weston Master II meter I regularly use and in the Norwood Director, only the needle is visible. In early GE meters, the coil is not quite concealed.

[Kevin Crisp]

The Westons are still good meters, but after this length of time the cell is probably dead. If you want to spend around $60, Quality Light Metric will put in a new cell and calibrate one for you. That doesn't help with your spot problem, obviously, but in a sense the dial is already zoned.

[aduncanson]

My recurring recommendation:

Quality Light Metric Co
7095 Hollywood Blvd Ste 550
Los Angeles, CA 90028
(323) 467-2265

They repair and calibrate meters including replacing some selenium cells. I find their prices reasonable.

I have a 33 year old Sekonic 398 and a GE Model 8DW48Y6, said (http://www.jollinger.com/photo/meters/meters/ge_dw48.html)to have been manufactured circa 1940. Both match much newer or recently serviced and calibrated meters as closely as one would expect over their intended range and considering the variations in technique necessary between narrow angle, broad angle and incident meters.


Oops: Sorry Kevin. I did not see your post. - Alan

[John Koehrer]

The cells are sealed units and the breaking of the seal allows corrosion & death.
I've got an early GE meter that's still good and the instructions refer to length of cell life as "unknown, the technology is too new" :)

[jm51]

I got a meter that won't wear out :) a Nebro visual exposure meter aka an extinction meter. Have to learn how to use it now.

I also bought a dirt cheap Mini-Rex II, the needle responds to light, so far so good but for the long term I'm going to get a hackable Canon Powershot and have a go at turning it into a spot meter.

Alas the desire to possess a SEI Photometer isn't going to abate until I actually own one.