Mac Mini Server QuadCore - Use as a Desktop?

[Frank Petronio]

I've been thinking about getting a 27" iMac but poking around I see that Apple makes a Server version of their Mac Mini, with a faster QuadCore processor, 8 gb RAM, twin hard drives (including a SSD option), and a Thunderbolt connection.

With the new 27" Thunderbolt monitor/hub it could offer most of the speed of a recent iMac (the processors are slower on the Mini) but also allow the monitor to be swappable, unlike the all-in-one iMac. You could also throw a Mac Mini into your carry-on as easily as a laptop....

It prices out pretty close to a similarly configured iMac.

The store doesn't offer keyboard or monitor options with the Mac Mini Server edition but I am sure you can simply purchase them....

Anyone using it this way? Did you just not use the Server apps? Or did you reformat and install straight consumer OS Loin?

Or - besides wasting the value of the Server software going unused - is this a bad idea?

[Ben Syverson]

Frank, it's a great idea. You can just not use the Server apps—otherwise it's the same as regular Mac OS X.

It may be a wash cost-wise if you factor in the price of the monitor, but a few years down the line when you decide to upgrade, it'll be cheaper and less wasteful to buy a new Mini vs a whole new iMac.

Plus, these new Minis are plenty fast. I say go for it!

[Barry Kirsten]

I considered the server version recently for much the same reasons, but decided instead on the dual 2.7 GHz Core i7 version with 8 GB RAM (purchased from OWC at a fraction of the price that Apple charge). Instead of the standard 500GB 5400 rpm HDD I also got the 750GB 7200 rpm option.

So far I'm completely satisfied. Everything transferred easily from my old G4 Powermac (which was much updated hardware-wise and running OS X 10.5), and although the difference is hard to quantify, the new Mimi runs rings around the old machine in terms of speed.

Almost any monitor and USB keyboard will work with the Mini - I use my old Apple keyboard and a 24" Samsung LCD monitor I purchased a few months ago. I feel I've got a very respectable outfit here. I use Pixelmator instead of PS, and although I don't have any really huge scans yet (my largest ones are around 150 MB), it easily handles anything I want to do in terms of B&W work.

No doubt the quad core server would be a bit faster, but whether a significant gain in practical terms, I wouldn't be sure. I feel that no matter which way you go, you'd probably find either version very satisfactory - and they don't cost an arm and a leg.

Kind regards,

Barry.

[Frank Petronio]

If you're as infrequent a Mac buyer as I now am, this Buyer's Guide tells you where in the product life cycle each model is: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/. For example, the iMacs are due for an update soon where the Mac Mini is mid-way through its cycle. I imagine the next iMacs should be smoking fast....

The Mini Server seems more attractive the more I think about it. While it isn't a laptop, it is compact enough to travel with and with the right HDMI-DVI adapters you could plug it into whatever monitors are on site. And while the new 27" Apple Cinema Thunderbolt Displays are pricey, they offer a hub and you could even run two displays off the Mini (the server model). See: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3189148?start=0&tstart=0.

There is a part of me that makes me want to get one sooner than later because they may well downgrade the next model once they realize what a good deal this little guy can be! But if they do a speed update in the Spring and leave the ports alone then it is a pretty good bargain.

[Ben Syverson]

They may do a small spec bump in the spring, but if you need something now, it's probably not worth waiting for. In the end, HD speed and RAM matter more than speed anyway!

[photobymike]

I am thinking of the new Mac Mini quad. I dont know if i would use the the thunderbolt monitor. I really need to have a really accurate color tune on my monitor. I have not tried the thunderbolt monitor, but i have tried many others on my quad G5. I have found out of the 4 LCDs that i tested, The Apple Cinema display worked best for me. Either the 20" or 23". I would like to try the 30" but have not the bones to trade for one.

Anybody have experience color tuning the Thunderbolt? How does it track with an Epson printer? When i see magenta it prints magenta... not perfect but close

[Paul H]

The one thing you may want to look a little more closely at is the video card spec on the Mac Mini server. I seem to recall it is a lower end card than the "desktop" Minis.

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah the server has the lessor (?) Intel 3000 video as used in the base model but with more memory, 384mb... which doesn't mean much to me? Which... is why I asked if anyone has been using it?

[Barry Kirsten]

For example, the iMacs are due for an update soon where the Mac Mini is mid-way through its cycle.

Perhaps Macrumors info is out of date: the Mini I bought just a few weeks ago was a new model - processor and video card updates, internal DVD dispensed with :mad: to name a few changes.

[J. Fada]

You can stuff 16gb of memory in the current MacMinis although Apple doesn't tell you that and it isn't cheap.

[Frank Petronio]

$260 for 2x8gb RAM = 16gb from New Egg, not bad. Set it up with the twin 750gb 7200 RPM drives and make them a RAID 0 and you'd have a nice, fast mini-machine.

I would love to drive two Cinema monitors but then I would feel too important and omnipresent.... maybe not a good thing? But for porn surfing OMG!

[Gregg Cook]

I have a last gen mini with 5 gig ram and use a 32 hdtv as a monitor and love it!!!
It is fast in photoshop!!! And the monitor is great, but calibration...:confused:

I still use my ancient g4 tower as a backup/print server, networks great!!!

[r.e.]

I think that AnandTech does some of the best computer reviews around. Here is what they have to say:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4515/2011-mac-mini-goes-sandy-bridge-specs-details-and-our-thoughts

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3843/apple-mac-mini-review-mid-2010

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/11 (talks about Intel HD 2000/3000)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4547/mac-os-x-lion-server-review/20

One way to further research the graphics card is to search for reviews of other Macs that use that card and see what the review says about how well the computer runs programmes like Photoshop and Aperture. And maybe do a Google search for the card + photoshop.

[engl]

I'd want an SSD in there for sure. The move from HDD to SSD alone feels like a much bigger speed boost than CPU/GPU/memory upgrades.

I don't think I could go back to a system where Photostop CS5 takes more than 2 seconds to start :)

[Ari]

I've been thinking of buying the Mini as well.
I've always had a laptop, so getting the Mini would mean finding a travel-friendly screen; not for serious work, but for emails, uploading photos, quick editing, etc.
My brother quickly found two monitor suggestions:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/usb-gadgets/bfa3/?cpg=wnrss

http://stores.nextag.com/store/4798044/product/1026929933/Toshiba-3059608-PA3923U-2LC3

All told, it would take up a little more room than a laptop.

[paulr]

Is thunderbolt the only way to connect the monitor? Are there adapters? If you're locked into using the Apple display that would be dealbreaker for me. There are much better monitors for photography, some of which cost quite a bit less.

I like apple displays for consuming media, not making it.

[drew.saunders]

Is thunderbolt the only way to connect the monitor? Are there adapters? If you're locked into using the Apple display that would be dealbreaker for me. There are much better monitors for photography, some of which cost quite a bit less.

I like apple displays for consuming media, not making it.

The thunderbolt port is also the "DisplayPort" and will talk to VGA or DVI-D displays with the correct adaptor. This is the DVI: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ

The thunderbolt display is really nice, I have one at work. I use it with a MacBook Air and one cable from the display splits into power and thunderbolt for the Air. On the back of the display, I get gigabit ethernet, Firewire 800 (for my backup drive) and USB for my keyboard and mouse (I prefer the wired ones) all out of that one little connection.

[paulr]

I agree that the apple monitors are nice. I like them a bit more than my NEC for web surfing and movie watching. Contrast is higher and text looks better. I work on them all day happily doing freelance design projects.

For photography, it's a different story. The Apple monitors are not hardware calibrateable, so all correction is done through the ICC profile in the video card. This eats away at the scant 8 bits of dynamic resolution you're starting with. They don't have a wide color gamut ... it's significantly smaller than Adobe RGB. And their evenness of illumination from edge to edge is noticeably imperfect.

That's great to know that you can use the regular displayport adapters with thunderbolt.
Beware that some monitors have revealed problems with some display port cables.

[neil poulsen]

I can't say much about the Mac Mini, since I don't have experience. Sounds like a good idea, though.

But, the IMac monitors are glossy and not the best for editing images. In all likelyhood, they only have 8 bit lookup tables, etc. So, going with a Mac Mini has the advantage of getting an upgraded monitor.

Is there still an NEC monitor available for under $500 that has a gamut of 95% of Adobe RGB '98?

[Kirk Gittings]

Neil, this $349 NEC seems to be the cheapest one that is good for editing from my research.http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/602072-REG/NEC_P221W_BK_MultiSync_P221W_BK_22_Widescreen.html

[Frank Petronio]

The monitor question is interesting, I was assuming getting a Thunderbolt 27" (or a 27" iMac to be honest, since the iMac will be upgraded this Spring and probably have great specs/value). But what other good editing monitors are out there that are a good value yet provide a better editing experience? That is, less - not more - expensive than the Mac monitor?

[Ed Kelsey]

I have a NEC PA271 with the Spectraview option and it is excellent. No glossy screen either.

Bought refurbished directly from NEC

/www.necdisplay.com/category/desktop-monitors?Refurbished=1

[mortensen]

Frank, don't have toooo big expectations for the iMac upgrade. I waited two years for them to release a quadcore model. I have no complaints whatsoever about my 27" quad imac (love it, frankly), but I think the mac mini idea sounds good. The ability to choose a better monitor could be essential..

[paulr]

Is there still an NEC monitor available for under $500 that has a gamut of 95% of Adobe RGB '98?

Depends on size. The one Kirk posted is a top quality monitor for cheap. With NEC be sure to budget for the calibration kit. It's what makes these monitors shine.

If you want a 27" one or bigger, you'll have go used. Or maybe something good will pop up in the refurbs.

LaCie is worth looking at too ... generally more expensive than the nearly identical NECs, but if a used deal comes along take a look.

I've read that Dell makes (or repackages) some very good monitors. They also have some bad ones and everything in between, so research carefully.

This site (http://www.prad.de/en) has the best reviews I've seen.

FYI ... if you're getting a wide gamut display and plan to use it with non color managed content (like office apps, or most of the web) on the Mac OS it will tend to oversaturate the colors and give the sense of a permanent acid trip. Make sure you get a monitor (like an NEC) that has an sRGB mode. You can switch in and out of it through the spectraview software. I just switch mine into Adobe RGB mode when I'm actually doing color-critical work, and don't spend much time on the web until I switch back out.

[Kirk Gittings]

Paul, I have bought good refurbs from Lacie too. I'm currently using a 319 refub.

[Frank Petronio]

Do you know if the Spyder calibrator works with the NEC monitors or do you have to use their calibrator?

[Kirk Gittings]

I believe you can use any of them but theirs has superior internal controls and will be more precise.

[paulr]

Here's (http://www.necdisplay.com/spectra-view-II/compatibility) NEC's supported hardware.

[Frank Petronio]

So for $1180 I can get a Mac Mini Server with a 2.0 Ghz Quad-Core i7 and two 750gb 7200 rpm drives that can be RAID 0. I can add 16 gb of OWC RAM myself and use this 22" NEC MultiSync P221W-BK for $400. Plus a keyboard. The current Mini still has FW800 and HDMI (convert to DVI) ports so I am not forced to used Thunderbolt until peripheral prices drop. So for about $2200 taxed and shipped, what's not to like?

The only thing I seem to be missing from an iMac is it would have a faster 3.0 Ghz processor.

One more question - does the Apple wireless keyboard work with the Mini Server or did they cripple that? I notice they do not offer a keyboard for it during checkout, which is strange considering they try to sell you everything else.

[Frank Petronio]

Ended up with the NEC MultiSync P221W-BK 22" for $349 from B&H, works fine with the MacBook Pro and Spyder 3 calibrator, very simple to set-up and calibrate. They are running a free hood promo too. (But I just registered and it says allow 12-16 weeks for fulfillment - really? 4 months! yikes - I hope it isn't just a sheet of folded Coroplast!)

Waiting until January 2 to order the Mini Server with RAID and 16 gb RAM, should be the most bang for the buck around.

[J_Tardiff]

So for $1180 I can get a Mac Mini Server with a 2.0 Ghz Quad-Core i7 and two 750gb 7200 rpm drives that can be RAID 0. I can add 16 gb of OWC RAM myself and use this 22" NEC MultiSync P221W-BK for $400. Plus a keyboard. The current Mini still has FW800 and HDMI (convert to DVI) ports so I am not forced to used Thunderbolt until peripheral prices drop. So for about $2200 taxed and shipped, what's not to like?

The only thing I seem to be missing from an iMac is it would have a faster 3.0 Ghz processor.

One more question - does the Apple wireless keyboard work with the Mini Server or did they cripple that? I notice they do not offer a keyboard for it during checkout, which is strange considering they try to sell you everything else.

Frank, I had to downsize for 6 months (living in an RV :( ) and I swapped my Quad MacPro for one of the Mini Servers (I went with the 256SSD + 750 HDD + 8GB RAM for now) -- it's been a very capable machine, haven't missed the MacPro at all. You need a wired keyboard for the initial startup and then the wireless works fine.

JT

[r.e.]

Frank,

Did you order the Mini-Server? If so, very interested in your views on it.

[Frank Petronio]

I should get it tomorrow and will have the set-up described above, with 16 gb RAM and twin 750gb HD in a RAID.

My remaining question is whether I might get a second monitor for tools but I want to see it run the single one first. Then see how I might split the single HDMI port to drive two of the 22" NEC MultiSync P221W-BK monitors? (Not sure if this is possible yet.)

Has anyone heard whether some smaller/cheaper Thunderport monitors are coming out soon? The 27" is a nice monitor but more than I would need. So far the single 22" NEC MultiSync P221W-BK has been great with my MacBook Pro.

[Frank Petronio]

Installed OSX Lion via the internet on to the twin internal 750gb HDs in RAID 0 configuration. Not a straight-forward procedure but so far so good - had to boot from the recovery partition (Command R on start up) and run Disk Utility per this https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3197548?start=0&tstart=0 in order to create a software RAID.

The only outstanding concern is that Disk Utility may not be able to repair Disk Permissions on the RAID disk but we'll see in an hour once my data migrates and I run Software Update. If I am lucky Apple will have updated the app, otherwise I will pick up the OS X Lion Thumb Drive to avoid having to make a clone/use Terminal and go through the hysterics the poor guys in that thread did, which was earlier in the Summer before Apple made the thumb drive version.

It always pays to be a mid-to-late adopter, I've learned this the hard way.

16gb RAM and a RAID 0 in box smaller than Steve Jobs' biography. Damn.

[Frank Petronio]

Disk Utility won't repair RAIDs on internal drives at least. Maybe I'll look into Disk Warrior again?

Doing the Time Machine backups now but... just for kicks I launched PS CS5 and opened a 400 mb file in 10 seconds.

I want the six months of my life back wasted with the slow machines....

Oh and the cost? Under $2K including a graphics monitor ;-p This rocks.

[r.e.]

I'm following this and thanks. Very interested in your view of this after a week, and what you compare it to.

[Frank Petronio]

Well I am off my high.... I seem to have some KEXT issues with the Loin install, which is not uncommon so it seems. But the current Disk Utility can not repair permissions or verify the disk of the boot RAID in Loin/Mini. I went out and bought a "USB stick Lion install" at the local Apple store and it couldn't repair either. Attempted to reinstall Loin froze the box. No go with the USB stick.

So instead I used the stick to install Loin onto my MacBook Pro, then made a Lion recovery drive on a USB drive. That got Lion up on the Mini and I am now restoring from the Time Machine backup. Once everything is live again, I will repair permissions using Terminal and should be good to go. Ordered Disk Warrior 4 on DVD which should boot and repair the boot RAID but that won't be here for a week.

If all that fails I will reformat the twin drives are regular drives and be pissed.

I guess this is not recommended procedure and a very round about way of building a RAID box so I should know better than to be on the bleeding edge once again.

Otherwise it seems like a nice set-up, but it probably isn't worth it to try to set up a RAID even though the damn thing seems like it would be ideal for it.

R.E. I finally saw an 11" MacBook Air and it was the nicest machine in the store, made me forget all about iPads. I also looked at the html version of my Flash site on it... and agree, the html version sucks. Yuck.

ALSO gotta say, boy Lion is not that great an OS, the stupid Calendar and Address Book, minor apps they are, are horrid UI and design.

I must be quite an Apple fan boy to have blown two days dicking with this and then going to the Apple site to consider buying another one....

[Frank Petronio]

Now the Lion install on my MBP has failed, ran software update and fixed disk permissions, ran for a couple of hours, then missing kext extension warnings came up, and it hung at the Apple on restart. Reinstalling the OS now.

Reformatted the Mini's drives back to normal configuration and did an (obviously) clean install and it also ran OK, did software update and repaired disk permissions, then it came up with hundreds of missing KEXT warnings (there is no other software on this Mac yet) and it hung at the Apple on restart.

Tried reinstalling the OS on the Mini and on auto restart it went back to Recovery mode. Disk Utility says drives are OK and so I am doing the third clean install attempt with a stock configuration and the latest OS. Another hour of internet downloading.

I shouldn't have to do a clean install on the MBP but that's my next step. I don't understand how either install can fail to load the KEXT extensions multiple times unless there is a bug in the OS installer itself?

This internet install for Loin is bullshit. I've never had such problems simply installing a system into new or otherwise up-to-date computers. It's been out for six months now and the bugs should be fixed.

Don't "upgrade" to Lion if you can avoid it. The only benefit that strikes me is the iCloud implementation is nice, but frankly, the Google apps are cleaner designs and seem real solid... the Mac OS apps are pretty damn ugly. Also stuff is all rearranged in the Finder UI and features like Launch Pad and Mission Control are sucky. Apple designs hardware well but its apps stink, especially this generation.

Yeah I'll get it fixed and I know Windows has similar or worse issues, but Apple screwed the pooch on this one.

[Frank Petronio]

OK lessons learned... don't try RAIDing the two internals.

And Lion does better with a reformat and clean install. Welcome back to extension conflicts like OS7 ca. 1994.

Seems to be fine now, knock on Aluminum.

[Mike Lewis]

Frank-

When your new machine is stable again, why not do a little benchmarking for us? A 4x5 drum scan from Lenny should be about 1.5 GB. Open one of those in PS then rotate it 90 degrees, while timing the rotation. I'm curious to see how well you setup works.

thanks,

Mike Lewis

[r.e.]

R.E. I finally saw an 11" MacBook Air and it was the nicest machine in the store, made me forget all about iPads.

I have both. The 11" MacBook Air is a real computer. It is about the same size as an iPad except 2" longer. The iPad has a better screen and significantly better battery life.

Late this afternoon, Bloomberg ran a story saying that iPad 3, with a high definition screen and a quad-core processor, is now in production for March release: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-13/apple-said-to-prepare-march-ipad-3-debut-with-sharper-screen-faster-chip.html I did not buy an iPad 2 when it came out because I wasn't convinced that it was a sufficient advance for my purposes. The iPad 3 may be enough to tempt me.

[photobymike]

The monitor question is interesting, I was assuming getting a Thunderbolt 27" (or a 27" iMac to be honest, since the iMac will be upgraded this Spring and probably have great specs/value). But what other good editing monitors are out there that are a good value yet provide a better editing experience? That is, less - not more - expensive than the Mac monitor?

I have used a couple of monitors and settled on a used 23" Apple Cinema Display. When i make changes in color and density it seems to track closer to my printer, an Epson 4800 7800. They can be bought for about 150 or 200 used. I tried a HP monitor i bought at Walmart... i could not turn off the auto brightness, so i took it back.

[Frank Petronio]

Everything I run is up-to-date and 64-bit Lion friendly but I think I didn't do a totally clean install the first time and something was corrupted. I went back and methodically reformatted and did a clean install of every item, then copied over my work files manually rather than trying to use any Migration Assistant or Time Capsule transfers. Apple promises quick and easy transfers but it is fair from perfect.

It now works solid and stable with no glitches. I like it a lot.

Other than I found a well-document bug, by Apple apparently, with the Intel 3000 integrated graphics (a weak point in the Mini Server to be sure) and the larger Brush cursors in Adobe applications. Basically I can not use the Brush Size Cursors in larger sizes until Apple fixes this in their next OS update 10.7.3 (coming soon, free). Still it is a bugger for photography and the bug has been known since Summer 2011. Nice....

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/brushes_not_working_on_2011_macbook_air

Anyway, no free lunches - A Mac Pro tower wouldn't have this issue and you could swap a video card out if it did.

Once they fix that I'll be real happy.

[Ben Syverson]

Frank, in the meantime, try disabling OpenGL in Photoshop. It won't be as responsive, but at least all your brushes should work!

[r.e.]

Frank,

Having now played the role of pioneer, in retrospect would you do this again or get a regular, albeit more expensive, Mac?

[photobymike]

Hey Frank... what did you do about the monitor?

[Frank Petronio]

I got the inexpensive NEC P221W which I like a lot, thanks for the recommendation from another thread. I may actually get a second one once the bug fix is in place. The only downside is that it maxes out at 1680x1050 pixels, which is a pretty low density - but having not been used to a higher end workstation, I don't notice it as a fault. If I came from a loaded Mac Pro and fancy pants monitor I would probably hate it.

If I had to do this over? The bug will likely be fixed with the next software update, but then again they've known about the issue for 5-6 months now.... But I will keep the Mini. There really aren't any good options....

- I could use a slower mini with a video card

- I could use a MacBook Pro with less RAM

- I could use an iMac with a glossy screen

- I could get a MacPro tower

All of which have more negatives.

I am lucky to have a perfectly good MBP in reserve, I will hold onto until things are satisfactory.

The safest bet for other photographers is to probably just getting the loaded iMac and living with the glossy screen. Do clean installs of your apps and manually transfer your data.

I am pissed at both Apple and Adobe over the bug, since both seem to be saying it's not their fault (but it seems to be Apple's if I read between the lines). You have to figure at the scale they sell these things, there are thousands of graphic artists like me who bought the Mini Server as an inexpensive workstation.

As it stands, I can retouch fine, just with the hinderance of not seeing my brush size. I have a good sense of it, but it requires more concentration and more "undos" to get things done.

I suspect RAIDing the two internal drives could work but it isn't supported by Apple and a real pain in the ass. Also when a drive fails, you're dead but in the side by side set-up I could simply ignore it (I have externals for back-up). Also if you want a faster drive, Apple would love to sell you a SSD for $$$.

As for moving towards Lion, it is a better OS I've decided, but it has some quirks that should be polished out with updates. The Auto Saving and file structure make a lot of sense, and as we move towards Cloud computing I can see where this all is going as an overall strategy.

Just do clean installs, it is a major upgrade and it is easy for corruptions to occur that will waste a lot of your time!

[gth]

I am looking to replace my old G5 with a mini. SInce I have keyboard, mouse and a 23 Cinema Display it's an attractive solution.

I am thinking my sweet spot would be the mid range Mini, with the better (?) Graphics Processor. I've always been partial to external disks for all my data, even applications at times. (USed to be a long time ago, I travelled to clients with a SCSI hard drive, which I could boot up with my complete environment.) I was never comfortable with putting hds in a hot large computer enclosure.

But back to the future..

Ideally I am thinking a single SSD as the internal drive. I don't want to pay Apple $600 extra for a 250g SSD, (with NO HD!!)when I can get a 120 G SSD for $200+ or a 250G for less than $400. So I'll go with a standard 500G internal drive internal - as delivered.

I'd like to use the Cinema display and a HD TV at the same time, in dual or mirror mode. The DVI + HDMI displays seems to be a problem.

Some questions you might know from recent experience:

- Internal SSD can be installed by user?
- Is the internal HD interface SATA II or SATA III? Big difference in SSD price!
- Effective performance difference between 2.5 dual core vs 2.0G quad core?
- Radeon Graphics processor better than the Intel?
- If I use a HDMI > DVI converter to drive my Cinema display do I loose using HDMI to a TV?
- Is there a third party Thunderbolt to DMI converter? Not on apples site!

/gth

[gth]

I just read that Thunderbolt is compatible with MiniDisplay port so I should be able to run my DVI cinema display off that port using a mini display port to DVI adapter, leaving the HDMI port for the TV. NICE!!

Seems like there are a bunch of folks on the net using third party SSDs in minis.

[Frank Petronio]

I would look at the Other World Computing website for advice on installing a SSD into a Mini.

The current Mini has a Thunderport and HDMI port for displays, Apple and others have convertors, I saw that some people running straight HDMI weren't happy on some of the support forums but did not investigate further. My DVI monitor runs great with the HDMI to DVI convertor bundled with the server. I hope to get a Displayport to DVI convertor and run a second monitor once the graphics bug is resolved.

I suspect the separate video card with the most RAM would be the best option for driving displays. Perhaps they used integrated graphics on the server model since they figure servers don't need the best display options and it saved a few bucks?

[r.e.]

Some questions you might know from recent experience:

- Internal SSD can be installed by user?

I looked into this when I was purchasing a 15" MacBook Pro. If the Mini is like the rest of the Macs, the answer is yes.

I was able to get a side by side demonstration, using Photoshop and other programmes, on a Mac Pro, one with SSD and one with the fastest hard drives. The SSD opened programmes much faster, similar to my MacBook Air 11". I was less sure about the significance of the speed difference when it came to processing with an opened programme.

The SSD market is fast moving and I suggest that you start with http://anandtech.com

[Frank Petronio]

The 10.7.3 update solved the cursor brush size issue so now, knock on wood or Aluminum, everything is nice - runs great, the RAM makes a nice difference. For the cost of an iMac I have a powerful twin monitor set-up ideal for photography.

I probably could have gotten the RAID to work if I went back and did a clean install and also clean installs of apps and manually moved data, as that cleared all problems with the regular non-RAID configuration. I realized afterwards that it was probably the Migration Assistant process that messed me up, not the RAID or OS itself.

But perhaps the RAID wasn't that much of a benefit anyway, especially with internal drives, so I'm not going to worry about it. Once SSDs come down in price they should be faster, I suspect. In the meantime, it's noticeably faster than my old set-up and the bottleneck is hitting the disk for saves, which isn't that bad at all.

[Kirk Gittings]

How is your second monitor hooked up?
I'm interested in this approach except that I have not been all that impressed with my MBP with a 2.7 i7 processor and 8gb of ram. Its slightly slower than my W7 PC 2.66 cor 2 duo with 8GB of ram (when I can keep it running-which is why I'm looking at other alternatives-but that is another issue). The PC went down during an important series of jobs a couple of months back and I set up my MBP with my Lacie monitor. So I have some real experince with this. It got me through the crunch but it was a struggle. I'm trying to remember though if at that time it had 4gb vs its current 8 gb of ram hmmm.

[Ben Syverson]

4gb vs 8gb makes a huge difference... These days if I have Safari, Mail and Twitterrific open at the same time, I'm pretty much at 4gb! Once you start swapping, you're toast.

[Kirk Gittings]

Yeah I think it was 4 then. My bad. I should give it another spin.

[Frank Petronio]

I hooked the first monitor up to the Mac Mini's HDMI port using the supplied Apple DVI convertor adapter cable. While HDMI doesn't seem to be the first choice of a port to use on other computers, it works well converted to DVI in this case.

The second monitor is connected via a DVI to Mini Display Port adapter cable, into the Mini Display Port/Thunderwavemonkeybolt port. It means that I won't be able to hook any $2000 Thunderbolt hard drives up with the port used (not able to daisy chain them either unless it is a Thunderbolt monitor, of which there is only the 27" Apple one available).

Some reviews of the Thunderbolt drives weren't that impressive anyway, and since I am mainly using my externals for archiving, Firewire 800 is fine.

In spite of the Intel integrated video with only 384 mb RAM seeming short compared to other computers, the monitors I am using run great. Sometimes I have to tap the cursor on the opposite screen to pick up where it is when I cross over, that is the only slow down and it is only when I am switching between applications anyway. (But note I am using relatively low resolution NEC P221W monitors which only go to 1680x1050 - if I had two higher density monitors I bet there might be a slow down.)

Prior problems I was having were mostly self-inflicted or at worst, blamable on the Apple Migration Assistant software messing up permissions and extensions. I should have done clean installs of everything from the start. The only bug was the graphics code fixed in the latest Apple update - now large brush-size cursors work perfectly.

I find the speed difference to be quite significant over the 2.2ghz Core 2 Duo laptop with only 4gb RAM. Not in everything but launching apps seems 2x, finder seems snappier, and Photoshop and Lightroom are much faster, maybe 2x. Four years makes a big enough difference to actually notice - I never really felt the incremental upgrades were all that noticeable. Same with DSLRS ;-p

[Kirk Gittings]

[QUOTE]The 10.7.3 update solved the cursor brush size issue /QUOTE]

The days when fixing issues on Adobe products were a priority for Apple are long gone.

[Frank Petronio]

I feel like both Apple and Adobe have lost the ability or willingness to do great software that really is usable, instead it is just like camera interfaces - let's load everything up with endless crappy features and put a Walmart Americana Skin over it so it looks new and fresh.

When I go to use something created by a small, smart team, something simple like Transmit for FTP (Panic Software) then I am reminded of how great the early Macs were and what a nicely designed interface can do. Like Ben's Mattebox app for the iPhone, stuff like that just seems really smart to me.

[Kirk Gittings]

If I went this route, as i have all my image files on numerous external drives and then backups of those on more external drives (maybe 10 altogether). I think I would need to get a Firewire 800 dock for the primaries and then run the backups on a USB dock. See any problems with this?

[Frank Petronio]

I don't see why not? It has normal USB and FW800 ports, and right now those drives are far less expensive than Thunderbolt drives.

Personally I just buy a new drive every 6 to 12 months and move the older drive off-site, like to a relative's house. So I have two larger drives here to back up too, plus the off-site which at least has the core material.

I've been thinking about using Amazon's servers for online cloud storage.

While I shot a fair amount of digital over the last few years, I am shooting much less digital and am starting to think that ~not~ archiving the raw files for non-client jobs is probably OK, as I don't expect to be editing them in my elder years and I doubt I want anyone else to mess with them either. That reduces the overall volume significantly. I'm trying to toss out bad film and prints too, it is hard habit to break after always saving so much. But really who wants to wade through it when you're gone? It would be really nice to just leave a nice simple pile of work behind rather than an entire storage unit.

[Frank Petronio]

Here she blows!

Working well ~

69537

[Frank Petronio]

Here she blows!

Working well ~

69537

Apple Mac Mini Server i7 16gb RAM twin 750gb 7200 RPM HD
Two NEC P221W graphics monitors with Spyder3Elite calibrator
Three WD 2tb external FW800 drives rotated for back-ups
Airport Extreme, shitty speakers, Wacom Bamboo, USB Superdrive
All for less than an iMac

(also an Epson 700 scanner, R3000 printer, two Minolta Dual-Scan IVs for 35mm)

[vinny]

Frank, I'm thinking of going the mac mini route as well, I don't want to do all sorts of partitions, uninstalls and things like you've done though. I wanna pull it out of the box, install some ram and photoshop, and go. Do you think the quad core is needed? I was gonna with w/o the server.

[Frank Petronio]

That's what I ended up doing in the end too... I just wasted two days trying to make it more difficult.

You might wait a little bit since they will probably update the Mac Mini line-up soon. The problem is that the two non-server models have the slower dual-core i5 processors versus the server having a quad-core i7. I haven't used the other models so I can't give you a comparison in the real world practicality of the difference, but even the MacBook Pros are using the quad-core i7s so the older Minis are probably lagging performance-wise.

On the other hand, the Mac Mini Server is hampered by the Intel integrated video versus the mid-level Mini having a better video card.

It's almost as if Apple is trying to thwart people from doing this so that they buy larger, more expensive computers. The server's integrated video on my set-up isn't a big problem, but I am only driving these monitors at 1680x1050 and sometimes the cursor disappears for a second until I tap it. I suspect a better video card would help Mr. Cursor catch up and I'd be able to run a higher density monitor. If I did video or 3d or gaming stuff the lack of a good video card would be ruinous.

[vinny]

This is what I'm looking at: dual core i7's.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/815061-REG/Apple_Z0M9_0002_500GB_Mac_mini_with.html

[Frank Petronio]

That's the previous to this generation model so I doubt you'd want to pay full retail price for it. Check the Apple website. This is a good guide too: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

[David E. Rose]

"The problem is that the two non-server models have the slower dual-core i5 processors versus the server having a quad-core i7".

Frank, I hate to tell you this after all your troubles, but the non-server Mini is available with an I7 processor, I bought one for my wife for Christmas. It is a $100 upcharge from the base I5 processor.

[Frank Petronio]

Mac Mini middle model is $799 plus $100 for the dual-core i7 versus the $999 Mac Mini server with a quad -core i7 and two 750 gb drives. They're tricky!

[David E. Rose]

Mac Mini middle model is $799 plus $100 for the dual-core i7 versus the $999 Mac Mini server with a quad -core i7 and two 750 gb drives. They're tricky!

Frank,
Got it. I thought all I7 processors were quad cores.

[vinny]

That's the previous to this generation model so I doubt you'd want to pay full retail price for it. Check the Apple website. This is a good guide too: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

yeah, the problem is that my my imac g4 (circa 2003) just died. I get the interchanging ?/folder when I fire it up.

[Mike Lewis]

Frank-

Now that you've had your Mac Mini setup for a few months, how do you like it? Would you do anything differently?

Mike Lewis

[Frank Petronio]

Hi, saw this resurrected. All is well, knock on wood. I've scanned and edited thousands of photos and have at least as many hours on it.

The only issues I have is that sometimes I loose the cursor between the two monitors and have to click out of Photoshop and back into it to regain the cursor (or maybe I just can't see a tiny grey cursor against a grey background, that happens too). Or I get wrong tool errors (paint brush becomes a hand tool, crop won't work, etc.) if I have been running Photoshop for a long time with lots of big files while simultaneously scanning and doing other tasks. I am not enough of a geek to understand why but both things probably have to do with the amount of video memory and it becoming fragmented until I restart. I suspect Adobe more than Apple is at fault since their apps shouldn't be failing, but it only happens occasionally and it isn't enough of a bother to get worked up over. It's also Apple's fault because the amount of video RAM is less than ideal but they figure you are using these things as servers, not for graphics, so I can't ding them too harshly.

I haven't looked at what is current recently to know if there are any improvements, I try not to dwell on what is current when I do not need another computer, otherwise I get tempted to buy more than I need. But maybe the newer ones have more video ram by now?

Frankly if I were doing it again I might just as well have gone in for a loaded, larger iMac... I think they are pretty nice, solid machines and it would have saved me a week of getting things sorted with this. So I saved a grand in price and spent a grand's worth of time (at least) dicking around... that's computers!

(The other good option in this range is a Powerbook with an external monitor, also a good choice but more expensive. If I shot a lot of digital and needed tethering then it would be a no-brainer.)

The bargain NEC monitors are still good, nice fairly even screens but even with calibration one is more/less green/magenta than the other, very slightly. I suspect better monitors also have these flaws and you just choose one to edit color on and the other for tools and other apps. Spanning Lightroom or Bridge over both doesn't work very practically, scrolling gets funky.

I don't follow the Mac press these days but it seems as though we all will be moving towards higher resolution displays, like the iPad and 13" MacBook Retina displays. This will obsolete this system when the larger Retina displays are possible and affordable but I bet they are still several years away. It will also be a huge pain as most web images will have to grow in resolution as well, and we'll be posting 2000-3000-pixel wide images online as normal practice soon enough. I've already made 2048-pixels my standard since they look good on the iPad 3 like that.

Nor have I gotten any Thunderport drives but in 3-4 years that should be sorted out better too. What is currently available is overpriced so I just used the port to drive a display instead (it can work that way) and use FireWire 800 for my external back up drives.

You can never have enough USB ports it seems, I have to switch a few odd things like 35mm scanners and the Quadtone RIP to my Epson but I can just do it from the wired keyboard I use (one advantage to the wired keyboards, plus they work when you reformat and boot the server from the internet.)

[Mike Lewis]

Thanks for the report. At some point my aging Mac Pro will need replacing, and at that time I may consider a Mac Mini as an alternative.

Mike Lewis

[vinny]

I've got the same mini as frank as well as one of the monitors. Great setup but I wish it had firewire 400 since that's what my hd's use. I use 800/400 adapters.