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Tim k
24-Nov-2011, 06:58
I've done some searching and it appears Linhof makes or made an offset Copal 1 board. I know for a fact that the rear element will fit in the front standard, at least centered.

Here is the question, anybody used the combo? It seems a little tight down in that offset hole. Just wondering if there's any wiggle room when your focused back in at 90mm. Or, if it even works at all together.

Thanks

Bob Salomon
24-Nov-2011, 07:03
The 90mm Grandagon-N 4.5 uses the standard Linhof Technika 45 flat board 001026 with a 0 hole. You don't need to worry about a special board with your camera. Linhof does make boards with a different hole position as a special order "z" designation board. But they are only for a couple of lenses in a 3 shutter. Not a 1 shutter.
And since you have not checked with either us or with Marflex you have been checking rumour and not facts.

Tim k
24-Nov-2011, 07:27
Thanks Bob that was quick.

I could have worded my question better. When I said "offset board", I should have said "with the standard offset". I'm not looking for a special board.

The real question is how does the combo work, and is there any room left for movements?

Your right Bob, my info came from that super reliable Internet thing.

Frank Petronio
24-Nov-2011, 08:07
In a pinch you could always remove the rear element and screw it in with the camera back removed. I haven't used a 90/4.5 on a Tech but I imagine it would be tight, plus the rise control on the IV is difficult to access with the front standard close to the body as the 90 would require.

Noah A
24-Nov-2011, 08:09
I use the Grandgaon-N 90/4.5 with my MT2000. I can get a decent amount of front rise.

There are differences of course between the IV and the MT2000, but the relevant difference is the MT2000's front wideangle flap. But even without opening the flap, I can get around 28-30mm of front rise before the bellows starts hitting the body box. (I can get more by opening the flap, of course.)

It's actually a great combination. While you may not be able to take full advantage of the lens' huge image circle, you can still take advantage of it's bright aperture for focusing and its incredible image quality.

Noah A
24-Nov-2011, 08:11
Frank's right of course, I forgot about the rise control. With a 90mm the standard won't be IN the body cavity, but it's close. It should be workable though. Worst case you can rack the focus out a bit to set your rise.

There's no need to remove the rear lens element, thankfully.

Frank Petronio
24-Nov-2011, 08:19
In practice you probably crank the maximum rise out of it anyway (just until the bellows will be damaged...) since you tend to need all the rise you can get when you need it... so just raise the front by trial and error then compress and focus properly.

Bob Salomon
24-Nov-2011, 08:25
Actually the front standard will be in a different position with the 4.5 Grandagon since it is mounted on a flat board rather then a recessed board as all the other modern 90s are mounted since the 4.5 is in a 1 rather then the 0 shutter.

Noah A
24-Nov-2011, 10:01
Bob, the OP asked about the 90/4.5 and I replied about my experiences with the 90/4.5.

I tend to be a bit conservative about using rise as to not mess up the bellows. But you could definitely get more if you're willing to risk it.

Anyway, as I said, it's a wonderful combo.

Tim k
24-Nov-2011, 10:30
Thanks everybody thats the info I was needing. I'm assuming your all talking about flat lensboards (working but just barely).

I'm in the process of trying to put a kit together around the Tech IV. I don't have the lensboard, so I was not able to test it out, but I did measure the best I could and it looks very close. One thing that did take me by surprise was having to slide the top rail back, so the front standard has something to sit on.

Noah A
25-Nov-2011, 10:08
Yes, I'm using a flat board for the 90mm and as you said, you will need to slide the top rail backwards.

The Technikas are amazing cameras. After an initial experience with a Wista metal field I thought that a field camera could not be capable enough for my needs. But the Technika is great to work with and I rarely run out of movements. And it just feels so solid. I hope you enjoy your IV!

Ivan J. Eberle
25-Nov-2011, 14:39
How do you focus a 90mm on an early Tech, do you have the front standard on the dropped bed or is it held by the inner body rail without a geared rack?

Noah A
25-Nov-2011, 15:50
A 90mm can focus on the main rails of a Technika, and in my experience there's no need to drop the bed, at least with the 90/4.5 Grandagon-N. The bed doesn't end up in the frame even for vertical-format photos.

Frank Petronio
25-Nov-2011, 15:58
The distance varies for each lens design but the big 90/4.5 Grandagon moves forward compared to some smaller lenses because it is a physically larger lens. I know that I would get the bed in a vertical shot with a 90/6.8 Angulon. How much of a recessed board (if any) you use with the lens matters as well.

Noah A
30-Nov-2011, 11:16
I just wanted to add a correction to my earlier post. I donīt use the 90mm all that often, since I generally prefer my 115mm (which is a beautiful focal length and allows for a bit more rise because of the longer flange distance).

Anyway, the 90/4.5 does not show the bed in the frame for horizontal-format photos, but the bed does intrude into the frame with vertical-format photos. I had never noticed this before, probably because I almost always use a bit of front rise with the 90, especially for verticals. For me itīs not a problem, but I wanted to mention it.

I donīt think a recessed board would matter even if you could fit the Copal 1 shutter into one. A recessed board would change the position of the standard, but it wouldnīt change the position of the lens relative to the film plane and the rest of the camera.

Bob Salomon
30-Nov-2011, 12:38
I just wanted to add a correction to my earlier post. I donīt use the 90mm all that often, since I generally prefer my 115mm (which is a beautiful focal length and allows for a bit more rise because of the longer flange distance).

Anyway, the 90/4.5 does not show the bed in the frame for horizontal-format photos, but the bed does intrude into the frame with vertical-format photos. I had never noticed this before, probably because I almost always use a bit of front rise with the 90, especially for verticals. For me itīs not a problem, but I wanted to mention it.

I donīt think a recessed board would matter even if you could fit the Copal 1 shutter into one. A recessed board would change the position of the standard, but it wouldnīt change the position of the lens relative to the film plane and the rest of the camera.

Here are Linhof's instructions for using a 72 or a 90mm or anything in between on a Master Technika Classic. The steps are the same for a V or a IV.

"13. WIDE-ANGLE PHOTOGRAPHY
(MASTER TECHNIKA classic)
When using 72 mm and 90 mm wide angle lenses, the upper track must be moved back as follows: Press the track lock button (16) just long enough to release the track, and slide the track towards the camera body until it clicks into position. When using the camera hand-held and with rangefinder focu- sing, the film back must be in horizontal position, in order to avoid vignetting by the front edge of the drop bed. To take photographs in vertical position, the entire camera must be turned by 90°. This camera operation is essential when photographing with the coupled multifocus rangefinder. It is also recommen- ded when focusing on the ground glass. In exceptional cases (vertical compo- sition from a tripod with 72 mm or 90 mm Super Angulon without using the rising front adjustment), it is possible to proceed in the following manner, in order to avoid the need for a lateral tilt of the camera: Remove rangefinder coupling cam, press down on both struts while you lower the drop-bed 30° until it clicks into the third notch of the struts, loosen the locking screw (1) and press the tilt release knob (3), tilt the lensboard all the way back and re-tigh- ten the locking knob (1). Now, as described above, the upper track is pushed
to its rear position. Due to the inclined position of the drop-bed, the infinity stops no longer indicate the wide angle infinity position. The lens is focused for infinity by moving the lens standard back and forth on the upper track.
PLEASE NOTE:
The combination of 72 mm wide-angle lenses and shorter with 4 x 5 inch film may cause slight vignetting even with the groundglass in horizontal position. For rangefinder focusing with 72 mm lenses, a slight lens rise is therefore recommended.
ATTENTION:
Remove rangefinder coupling cam before lowering the dropbed into the wide angle position."

Tim k
30-Nov-2011, 14:36
Here are Linhof's instructions for using a 72 or a 90mm or anything in between on a Master Technika Classic. The steps are the same for a V or a IV.

"13. WIDE-ANGLE PHOTOGRAPHY
(MASTER TECHNIKA classic)
When using 72 mm and 90 mm wide angle lenses, the upper track must be moved back as follows: Press the track lock button (16) just long enough to release the track, and slide the track towards the camera body until it clicks into position. When using the camera hand-held and with rangefinder focu- sing, the film back must be in horizontal position, in order to avoid vignetting by the front edge of the drop bed. To take photographs in vertical position, the entire camera must be turned by 90°. This camera operation is essential when photographing with the coupled multifocus rangefinder. It is also recommen- ded when focusing on the ground glass. In exceptional cases (vertical compo- sition from a tripod with 72 mm or 90 mm Super Angulon without using the rising front adjustment), it is possible to proceed in the following manner, in order to avoid the need for a lateral tilt of the camera: Remove rangefinder coupling cam, press down on both struts while you lower the drop-bed 30° until it clicks into the third notch of the struts, loosen the locking screw (1) and press the tilt release knob (3), tilt the lensboard all the way back and re-tigh- ten the locking knob (1). Now, as described above, the upper track is pushed
to its rear position. Due to the inclined position of the drop-bed, the infinity stops no longer indicate the wide angle infinity position. The lens is focused for infinity by moving the lens standard back and forth on the upper track.
PLEASE NOTE:
The combination of 72 mm wide-angle lenses and shorter with 4 x 5 inch film may cause slight vignetting even with the groundglass in horizontal position. For rangefinder focusing with 72 mm lenses, a slight lens rise is therefore recommended.
ATTENTION:
Remove rangefinder coupling cam before lowering the dropbed into the wide angle position."

OMG how could something so simple sound so complicated.
Here is my version; Noodle with things till it looks pretty in the little window.
Thanks Bob, and Noah for the update.
Who would have thought there were instructions :eek:

Tim k
9-Dec-2011, 18:21
My board came in today. Here is the answer to my question.

The rear element fits in the bellows opening ok. Sort of like putting on a pair of shoes one size too big. Focused at infinity the front standard is not in the camera body. There is some rise available, but its near impossible to use the rise knob while focused at infinity. Haven't checked to see if the bed is in the way yet.

Bottom line is its do-able. :cool:

Thanks for your help everybody.