Sinar f+ vs. F1 or F2

[stradibarrius]

What is the difference between a Sinar F+ and an F1? Also an F2?

[Joseph Dickerson]

I'm not familiar with the F+ but there are a couple of differences (improvements?) on the F2.

On the F2 the shift and swing locks are separate, so you can move one without unlocking the other. On the F1 there is only one lock for both movements.

The F2 has micro focus on both standards, on the F1 it is only on the rear standard.

Also the F2 front standard is a little more robust than on the F1. All of these improvements make the F2 a couple of pounds heavier.

As far as I know, those are the only differences. I seem to remember that the F+ was sort of a transitional between the F and the F1. But I am not at all sure about that.

JD

[rdenney]

What is the difference between a Sinar F+ and an F1? Also an F2?

The F+ is an F. Whatever differences there are with the F have escaped me. It may have had to do with what was included in the kit.

The F1 is similar to the F except that the rise locks have been changed to match those on the F2, along with other cosmetic changes to the color and the knobs.

The F2 has an improved front standard that provides geared focus. After the first couple of years, the F2 was modified to provide an independent shift lock.

Rick "noting a Wall Street Camera catalog from 1978 that lists the F as an F+" Denney

[stradibarrius]

Thanks for the information. I don't think the Sinar F is really any lighter than my Cambo but it might be easier to pack smaller because the verticals are inside the edges of the stanards rather than outside like the Cambo. My CC-400 certainly is more compact than the Cambo.
Any thoughts there???

[rdenney]

The Sinar F definitely packs more compactly than a Cambo SC. The short, extendable base rail is certainly one key reason. The inboard rise columns is another.

Rick "who has both" Denney

[stradibarrius]

Rick, other than packing lighter are there other advangages to the Sinar F orver the Cambo SC?

[AnselAdamsX]

Th F can use wide angle lenses on flat lens boards. I've used 47, 65, and 90 on flat lens boards.

[Joseph Dickerson]

The F1 and F2 both have Sinar's depth of field calculator, and the swing/tilt angle calculator.

Both will speed up the shooting workflow considerable. At least they do for me.

Also, they both accept the Sinar fresnel, which clips in behind the gg and is easily removed if you don't want it. Only takes a second or two to install/remove it.

I haven't used a Cambo in a while, although we have several at school and they are excellent. But to me the Sinar just feels nicer and I think is a little bit lighter. But then I've only used the entry level Calumet branded Cambos.

As far a weight is concerned my F1 weighs 7 pounds without a lens and with a Norma tripod mount. I prefer a Norma tripod block when in the field due to it's lower profile.

JD

[stradibarrius]

Thanks for the good info!

[Alan Gales]

Rick, other than packing lighter are there other advangages to the Sinar F orver the Cambo SC?

A huge advantage to some is that the Sinar F can use the Sinar shutter. Of course this isn't important to everyone.

[Frank Petronio]

I'd choose one based on condition, now that Fs, F-pluses, and F1s seem to be selling for only $300 on average. They are an incredible bargain.

Of course I like the F2 and Norma better but still, for $300 you're getting into a system camera - they often come with extras like rails, bag bellows, fresnels, lensboards - it's pretty hard to beat. The "better" models are slightly better -- not 2-3x the price so.

[stradibarrius]

When you buy a camera body from KEH, does it usually have the back or do you have to buy to back as a seperate parts like a lens boad?

[Frank Petronio]

It should be a functional camera with a back and rail clamp. It may need a lensboard, and of course a lens.

Holders, loupe, darkcloth, tripod, etc.

When you buy from a good private seller they often include accessories. I would consider this Sinar F2 to be an excellent deal:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=82295

That's a very reliable seller too, but I have no association or responsibility here. I just know it would be a better bet than KEH by a mile....

You could even resell the pieces you don't need and lower the cost to you.

I shouldn't brag but if you do it right, the camera will be free.

[rdenney]

Rick, other than packing lighter are there other advangages to the Sinar F orver the Cambo SC?

The reason I switched to the Sinar is that I wanted to use roll-film holders with really short lenses. Even with a recessed board on the Cambo, it was impossible to get it to focus a 47mm Super Angulon unless I reversed the rear standard. But that required the roll-film holder to sit down between the uprights making it impossible to pull the dark slide. So, it had to be used vertically. Also, the tripod block could not be between the standards. And the fixed rail had to mostly poke out the back to keep the front from being in the picture, which poked me in the chest. I actually bought the Cambo bag bellows and a rail that I cut down to solve some problems but still there was too much compromise and hassle.

With the Sinar, I can use down to a 47 on a flat board, especially using the excellent Wide-Angle Bellows 2. There are no uprights to get in the way and that's why it takes less space in a case. I don't use the scales and other calculators on the camera, though, preferring to check camera movements on the ground glass. A Maxwell screen makes that easy even with the 47.

KEH will generally sell view cameras ready to use except for a lens board. You may need a different bellows or whatnot, but these are easy to find for Sinar cameras.

Rick "for whom Sinar represents the best value on the use market for a rail camera" Denney

[uphereinmytree]

how much does a standard complete sinar f1 weigh. I saw on the sinar website that both the f1 and f2 weigh 3.6 kg or about 8lbs. Are they really the same?

[David E. Rose]

Somewhere along the line, Sinar made the F rise/fall rods longer. I believe the original F has the short rods, which still provide plenty of rise, but can make for a more compact package, especially when combined with a Norma rail clamp.

[Armin Seeholzer]

I saw on the sinar website that both the f1 and f2 weigh 3.6 kg or about 8lbs. Are they really the same?

In my brochure from Sinar in german, they state for the F1 3,3 Kg!

Cheers Armin

[Drew Wiley]

The f2 will be a tiny bit heavier due to the fully enclosed base on the front standard
and longer rise legs (I trimmed mine down). A bit of difference is the rear too if a meter
back is involved. Not enough difference to really matter weight wise. Factor in some
extra rail extension if needed. I've got 24 inches of reail and an overlength bellows and
it adds up to about eight pounds with the F2, or nine pounds on the Norma.

[Leszek Vogt]

To OP

I saw Sinar F2 for sale at Glazier for around $300 (w/o lens). You may want to check it out.

Les

[rdenney]

To OP

I saw Sinar F2 for sale at Glazier for around $300 (w/o lens). You may want to check it out.

Les

Les, you sure it was an F2? I was there two months ago and they had a Sinar Alpina (A1). It's a nice camera and in later versions looked somewhat like an F2, except that it has a shaped extruded rail rather than the standard Sinar extendable round rail. Maybe that one's gone and they've gotten an F2 in stock. If it's an F2, that's a great price. If it's an A1, it's a good price.

Rick "who makes it a point to stop in to Glazer's at during every visit to Seattle" Denney

[Leszek Vogt]

Unless it was bought already....it's F2...I looked at the tag with caution.

Les