View Full Version : Can a 4x5 Sinar P accommodate a Fuji 450mm with one bellows?

Christopher Condit
1-Oct-2003, 12:38
Does anyone use this combination? I currently have only 18" of total rail, and that seems insufficient, by about half an inch or so, for focussing on infinity. Also, the bellows is getting kind of tight at that point.

Would this combo work ok with another 6" of rail, or would the bellows run out? Ideally I'd also like a little movement to be possible, especially rise. The other alternative I'm considering is some sort of extender lensboard; good idea or bad?

I don't see that Sinar manufactures an extension lensboard, nor an extra-long bellows.

I'm *not* gonna spring for a connector frame and second bellows, even though that is guaranteed to work...



1-Oct-2003, 13:04
It's the last half inch that get's you every time ;-)

How about having a set of longer bellows made by someone like Camera Bellows in the UK or anybody / anywhere else?

A quick look at the sinar website lists 480 and 600mm lenses as being available but these might be as you say - needing an extra standard and a second set of bellows which won't be cheap :-(

If these lenses are designed not to need their full length to focus (telephoto?) then the longest listed is 360 which may be the limit of the bellows...

Ernest Purdum
1-Oct-2003, 13:11
Since your bellows is getting "kind of tight" at 18", at 24" it would be very unhappy with any attempts to use your movements. Personally, I'd like to have about 50% extension past infinity - 9" rather than 6".

Regarding the extended lensboard thought, it woould be rather bothersome for your swings and tilts because of the rear nodal point of your lens being way out in front of your movement pivots. The leveraged load would cause problems for many cameras, but probably not a Sinar P. The few lensboard extensions I know of have been for use in macro work where the front of your camera can get in the way of positioning your lighting. A few manufacturers have offered extension backs, often as a way of converting to a larger format. I don't know of anything that would be helpful in your case, however.

David du Busc
1-Oct-2003, 13:11
The standard Sinar 4x5 bellows extends to about 16 inches. Horseman made a longer bellows [that is Sinar compatible] to go with the Horseman expanding rail ... you would need to add a Sinar extension rail to make that work with a 450mm. I think you may find a custom extended lens board to be almost as costly as a bellows and a connecting frame. Good luck.

Ted Harris
1-Oct-2003, 13:17
Horseman does manufacture an extra long bellows that will fit on your Sinar. It will easily handle the needed bellows draw providing your rail is long enough. II just went and measured my current setup where I am doing some macro work and the bellows is currently at 711 mm.

Bellows extewnsion for non telephoto designs is equal to the focal length for infity focusso you would need 450 mm or a bit under 17" which you have. Getting closer, of course, will need more bellows.

Ernest Purdum
1-Oct-2003, 13:24
Further to Andrews thought about getting Camera Bellows to make up a custom item for you, I just had one made by them which would be very similar. Their bellows are great and the total cost was 82 Pounds including shipping. I did, however, supply the frames. Bad Sinar bellows from which the frames could be salvaged do show up on eBay sometimes.

Dick Roadnight
1-Oct-2003, 13:54
I thought that my bellows was standard Sinar, but it does just work with a Rodenstock 600mm (24") process lens, with 24" of rail.

Christopher Condit
1-Oct-2003, 14:17
Lots of good info and advice, thanks to all.

Ernest, you are right, an extension lensboard effectively will make the lens behave like a telephoto (hard to tilt/swing), not a great idea.

A quick check of B&H shows a Horseman Extra Long Bellows for $350, plus I could probably get another 6" extension rail off the 'Bay for $75, sheesh, this is adding up in a hurry...


Ted Harris
1-Oct-2003, 14:50
Assuming you want to go the Horseman long bellows route you should check with Jim and Midwest Photo and with Quality Camera to see what they have. If eiteghr of them have one I am sure it will cost you less than $200.

Dave Schneider
1-Oct-2003, 14:59
You should be able to pick up everything you need off ebay, if you're patient. I wanted to do some close ups with my F2 and 305mm lens. By prowling ebay I was able to get a 12 inch extension for $60, an F front standar for $100 and a bellows still in the plastic bag with the old dealers sticker on it for $60. That is much less than you would spend on a custom bellows.

John O'Connell
2-Oct-2003, 07:41
I'm not sure where you're located, my esteemed Mr. Registration Punch, but US prices on Sinar stuff are scary. When I was about to plump for an F1 two years ago, I priced everything out through Europe and it would have been much, much cheaper, particulary the extra frame and bellows I would have needed to accomodate my 355/9 G-Claron.

Christopher Condit
2-Oct-2003, 13:43

I've been shopping used, and it's a buyer's market for Sinar on the 'Bay. As an amateur, I can't technically afford Sinar new. However, since you say there is a significant price differential, maybe I should take a look in Europe; can you recommend any internet stores? I only speak English and French. Dan hai ngoh sic tang yut ti guang dong wah.

No relation to slimy politician or CEO of Boeing, ;-)

James Driscoll
2-Oct-2003, 15:19

You can buy a Sinar Norma Multi Purpose standard for peanuts on ebay...one went for $44.00 on monday. I would get a 12" rail instead of a 6" one and they also go for nothing on ebay.

Bellows equally go for less...Europe may be cheaper...but factor in the shipping!!!

Ted Harris
2-Oct-2003, 20:15
KEH is currently l,isting the long horseman bellows used for 99.