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View Full Version : Ebony 45S(U) questions re:6x17 and Ebony 617S



Sizam
12-Nov-2011, 16:03
Hi All,
I'm setting my sights on a 6x17 view camera and its looking like a new Shen Hao or used Ebony. I'm checking out the Ebony 617S which is incredibly expensive and hard to find used vs the Ebony 45S or 45SU with a 617 roll film back.

Is there something special about the Ebony 617S over the Ebony 45S besides the fact that it comes with the 617 roll film back, I don't understand why its nearly 2x the price of the 45S. I thought maybe it'd be lighter but its not, its even heavier than the 45S/SU.

Does the 45S/SU not support the full width of the 617 rollfilm back?

evan clarke
12-Nov-2011, 16:07
I have a 45s that I bought for a 617 back. I have the Shen Hao back and viewer and with the 45s I can also do vertical 617s and have the luxury of being able to carry a coiple of 4x5 holders in the bag as well..Evan Clarke

Sizam
12-Nov-2011, 17:36
So you get the full width of the 617? I ask because 17cm is ~6.7" and a normal 4x5 maxes out at 5" obviously :) Unless I'm missing something...

Daniel Stone
12-Nov-2011, 21:26
what about getting one of those shen hao 6x17's? save a good bit of green, and almost as pretty ;)

-Dan

David Rees
13-Nov-2011, 02:02
The big advantage of a dedicated 617 camera, as opposed to a 5x4 with a 617 adapter, is when using lenes of focal length 150mm or greater. As the lens is racked out further to get the longer lenses in focus, side vignetting occurs. The result is thst you end up with 6x15, 6x14, 6x13 on the film, as the focal length is increased.

I use a DaYi 6x17 back, mounted on a Walker 45XL, which allows me to use 72mm to 210mm lenses. The latter shows some vignetting, but it's rare for me to use a long focal length with panoramics, so I live with it. The Shen-Hao does look tempting, though...:)

dave_whatever
13-Nov-2011, 04:03
Hi All,
I'm checking out the Ebony 617S which is incredibly expensive and hard to find used vs the Ebony 45S or 45SU with a 617 roll film back.

bobby white's have got one - still not cheap though!

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=3235&PT_ID=498

Jeff Keller
13-Nov-2011, 09:44
An alternative is a Canham MQC 5x7 along with the Canham 6x17 roll film back. The Canham bellows allows for a wide range of focal lengths up to 24" / 600mm.

Jeff Keller

Sizam
13-Nov-2011, 10:26
The big advantage of a dedicated 617 camera, as opposed to a 5x4 with a 617 adapter, is when using lenes of focal length 150mm or greater. As the lens is racked out further to get the longer lenses in focus, side vignetting occurs. The result is thst you end up with 6x15, 6x14, 6x13 on the film, as the focal length is increased.

I use a DaYi 6x17 back, mounted on a Walker 45XL, which allows me to use 72mm to 210mm lenses. The latter shows some vignetting, but it's rare for me to use a long focal length with panoramics, so I live with it. The Shen-Hao does look tempting, though...:)

Excellent point David, I didn't even consider that. So a 5x7 would be the better option in that case, or a dedicated 617 obviously?


what about getting one of those shen hao 6x17's? save a good bit of green, and almost as pretty ;)

-Dan

I'm considering one of these as well, I just figured if I could find a used Ebony then what the hell, I'll get that and can sell it later.

Sam

David Rees
13-Nov-2011, 10:49
Sam,

A dedicated 6x17 camera is ideal, but as Jeff pointed out, a 5x7 camera can also be made to serve. The Canham 6x17 roll-film back he refers to can work on at least one other 5x7 that I know of: the Walker 57XL (made on this side of the pond, by a thoroughly decent chap, Mike Walker). His website is www.walkercameras.com; you can find details of his 5x7 there if you are interested.

I like the thought of owning the Ebony; I owned a Ebony 45SU for a number of years, and it was a wonderful camera. But the price of the Ebony 617 is so high over here, I'd be afraid to take it out of doors, which makes it rather pointless for me. I think Ebony cameras are cheaper in the USA, so this may not be as much of an issue for you.

There have been a couple of threads about the Shen-Hao 6x17 cameras (a folder, and two variants of the non-folder) on this forum in the past few years; you might want to do a search, and see if anything helpful to you pops up. The 6x17 backs have been discussed a bit also.

David.

Lachlan 717
13-Nov-2011, 12:40
I have not seen a used Ebony 617 in the last 5 years.

Mind you, I also haven't seen too many used Shen Hao 617s either...

As for where to get a new Shen, they're available on eBay and direct from the company.

Sizam
13-Nov-2011, 14:19
Ok, its looking like a Shen Hao 617-A is in my future, now I'm wondering if the lenses I currently own for my 4x5 are going to cut it:

Schneider APO Symmar L 210/5.6
https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=164&IID=1832

Schneider Super-Symmar XL 80/4.5
https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=169&IID=1838

Schneider HM 120/5.6
https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=167&IID=1845

They all say 'ideal for 4x5' but mention they will work on larger formats, what image-circle sizes should I be looking for?

Thanks,
Sam

EDIT: I guess the obvious conclusion is 60x170mm means I need an image circle of at least 180mm so my lenses are 320, 210, 250mm respectively so I guess I'm good at f22 but what about wide open, how do you determine that?

richard brown
13-Nov-2011, 23:47
I have an ebony 45S for sale on the forum if you decide to get a shen hao back. I have seen the shen hao cameras and really prefer the ebony's quality which you do pay for.
I also have a Canham 5x7 with both backs and the canham 617 back but am not selling it... still have to get the time to go out and do some shooting with it (snowing up at Lake Louise so off i go this week). Used canhams sell for around $2000 but the pano back is $1200+ so be prepared. I can't see getting a dedicated 617 camera as you lose the chance to shoot 4x5. And I did consider the non folding shen hao... sooner spend more money for better quality.
Good luck with your decision and write with any questions....Cheers
Richard

Lachlan 717
13-Nov-2011, 23:58
And I did consider the non folding shen hao... sooner spend more money for better quality.


Richard,

Care to elaborate on what's deficient with the Shen Hao?

deadpan
14-Nov-2011, 04:35
I just figured if I could find a used Ebony then what the hell, I'll get that and can sell it later.

Sam


I have not seen a used Ebony 617 in the last 5 years.




http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=3235&PT_ID=498

Sizam
14-Nov-2011, 09:36
Hah Deadpan,
the problem there is in US $ thats about $8000, add on a couple hundred more for shipping and insurance and I may as well buy a new one from Badger at $8900, apparently they're more expensive to start with in the UK is part of the problem.

Richard,
Your 45S in the forum is what prompted this post, unfortunately it sounds like a 4x5 isn't an ideal platform for 6x17 photography with longer lenses and I would like to be able to use a 300mm lens.

I'd pick up a Canham 5x7 with 617 back in a heartbeat (I've owned a Canham 8x10 and it was wonderful) but I'm drawn to the simplicity of having a dedicated 617 camera with its flipdown GG and smaller size. The non-folding is what I'm looking at and if another company offered something at even 2x+ the price ($4000+) that offered some sort of advantage I'd consider it (even if some of it is just attractiveness), but the Ebony at over 5x the price I can't justify.

Sam

PViapiano
14-Nov-2011, 10:06
I'd love a 6x17 camera but am put off by the fact that I wouldn't be able to optically enlarge the negs on my 4x5 enlarger...

Sizam
14-Nov-2011, 10:11
I'd love a 6x17 camera but am put off by the fact that I wouldn't be able to optically enlarge the negs on my 4x5 enlarger...

A valid concern, fortunately for me its going straight into my scanner :)