Getting into LF. Sinar X.

[NeilDeshpande]

Gruppe:

I'm interested in LF for portraits and architecture. 100% Amateur. Since I will do this for pleasure in the equipment, I am looking at something solid and have been thinking either Sinar X or Sinar P. For a lens, I thought I'd start with a 90mm/5.6 Caltar or something along those lines.

More interested in the movements possible for both architectural and portraiture than ultimate sharpness.

Weight is a hassle, but I usually drive to all my architectural stuff even in Europe so not really an issue.

End result should be something I can print via digital pigment printing at about a 20"x20" size. I develop my own film (out of a Rollei TLR, 645N, Contax 139Q) and scan it myself as well so have that end of things at least partially under control.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I've done quite a bit of reading for about 6 mo on the Net and keep coming back to the Sinar X or Sinar P.

Thanks!

[Ken Lee]

For portraits, not everyone would use a 90mm lens. It's equivalent to a 28mm lens on 35mm: rather wide. Good for architecture of course. But it all depends on how you like to make portraits.

A more "standard" portrait length on 4x5 is anywhere from 180mm to 300mm, and 210mm lenses are among the most abundant and affordable. Because they are closer to the "normal" length (150mm) they tend to be superb performers. A 5x enlargement should look lovely if the scanner is adequate.

I use a Sinar P for most things, most of the time. It's not the smallest or lightest, but it has all the features. As long as you're not trekking or physically challenged, that shouldn't matter: film holders and tripods can weigh more, never mind lighting equipment.

[Alan Gales]

I own a P but have never used an X. From my understanding the X is missing the click stops of the P and P2. This is a deal breaker for some.

If you ever decide that you want to shoot 8x10, Sinar has 8x10 backs that fit the 4x5 rear standard. To do this on an X I believe you have to upgrade the rear standard. Just a little more information for you.

[Drew Wiley]

Just depends on price and condition. Whatever is the best deal. P's were way more
common than X, so lots more of em on the used mkt. X's are all relatively recent, so
better odds at getting a clean one. Both quite heavy for field use; and both will need
a substantial tripod due to relatively high center of gravity. Minor differences which
would be important to a studio or digital photographer, but probably not significant to
a casual or outdoor user. P is convertible to 8x10, but the components might cost as
much as just getting a used 8x10 anyway. We Sinar users tend to accumulate a variety of components over time.

[B.S.Kumar]

The X and the P2 are similar, except:
1. The P2 has detents at center positions.
2. The P2's gearing is a little better, so it's easier to focus.

My X had the removable frame, so I could have changed formats, if I wanted to.

Kumar

[Frank Petronio]

Get the Sinar pan-tilt head and the heavier 5-series Gitzo tripod... those are heavy cameras and need a strong support.

Prices vary so do not overlook the P2 either. But buy based on condition, as some have been heavily used. Sinar can restore most pieces.

A 90/4.5 Rodenstock will be a fine lens with room for movements -- it is very popular for architecture. don't forget teh bag bellows for the camera.

A longer lens would be more useful for portraiture and details, perhaps a 210 to start?

[Alan Gales]

Kumar used the right word, detents not click stops.

[Robert Jonathan]

The X and the P2 are similar, except:
2. The P2's gearing is a little better, so it's easier to focus.

This is incorrect.

The gearing is identical to the P2. Focusing the X might even be easier than the P2 if the P2 is old and beat up, since the X cameras are newer, and more likely to be well adjusted.

The only gearing difference is the shift (the red knob on the X). You have to turn it the opposite direction that you would on the P2 to go the same direction... who cares!

And I kind of like the idea of NOT having zero detents. It allows you to make very fine adjustments off of the ZERO mark, without having that click stop "pulling" the movement back to zero.

As Kumar said, the later X models had removeable rear frames. The early X did not.

[B.S.Kumar]

This is incorrect.

The gearing is identical to the P2. Focusing the X might even be easier than the P2 if the P2 is old and beat up, since the X cameras are newer, and more likely to be well adjusted.

The only gearing difference is the shift (the red knob on the X). You have to turn it the opposite direction that you would on the P2 to go the same direction... who cares!

And I kind of like the idea of NOT having zero detents. It allows you to make very fine adjustments off of the ZERO mark, without having that click stop "pulling" the movement back to zero.

As Kumar said, the later X models had removeable rear frames. The early X did not.

I replaced an X with a P2. Both were bought used from reliable dealers, and were in excellent condition. I also have an F2, and used to own a P. The X is no longer sold by Sinar. My experience is that the P2 is a little better in terms of gearing. And don't forget, the X was an economy version of the P2. The zero detents are a matter of preference. I like them, YMMV.

Kumar

[Robert Jonathan]

Hi Kumar,
I'm just repeating what I heard from SinarBron reps. They stated that the gearing in the X and P2 is identical, and the only differences are the ones already mentioned above.

Perhaps your P2 was more "broken-in", and it felt different or better to you, but you never know.

I've only used the original P.

[NeilDeshpande]

Gruppe:

I've been out of the country a while and not checking the forum. Thanks for all the comments. I bought a 90mm and 210mm lens so that covers my immediate needs. Now to get the camera itself. Sinar X it is, I think.

Kumar, I'm envious of your opportunity to tour Ando's architecture. My wife interviewed Richard Pare a few years ago, about his Russian photographs, and I got to sit and talk to him about pictures in my "Colors of Light" book. Our own home mimics his work somewhat and, while at the Vitra Conference Center last month I was amused to find that we also have the same furniture!

Neil Deshpande

[NeilDeshpande]

Gruppe:

I bought a Sinar P today. It should arrive on Tue next week and be put to use the following weekend.

Neil

[Peter De Smidt]

They are great cameras.

Make sure that if something doesn't move smoothly, such as a lens board lock, that you re-seat the lens board (or bellows frame...) and try again. Don't simply push down harder on the lever.

[NeilDeshpande]

Gruppe:

Thanks to all of your for your help. The Sinar P arrived today with lens boards for the 90 mm and 210 mm lenses. I tried everything out very very gently and it all appears to work really well.

The only surprise, and I may be missing something, is that the 210 needs almost the entire rail length worth of bellow extension to focus 15 feet away.

Neil Deshpande

[rdenney]

The only surprise, and I may be missing something, is that the 210 needs almost the entire rail length worth of bellow extension to focus 15 feet away.

The rail is 12 inches long, and the lens requires 8 of it focused at infinity. The P bearers are fairly large and they are mostly outboard of the standards. If you need to focus more closely, find a 6" rail extension. These are usually cheap and plentiful on ebay. Any Sinar round rail extension will work on this camera, whether chrome or black. The extensions have red handles on them, while the base rail has black handles. Just uncrew an end cap, screw on an extension, and screw on the end cap.

Rick "for whom this was a primary feature of the Sinar" Denney

[NeilDeshpande]

Rick:

Thanks! I've benefitted from your work elsewhere with the Zeiss Jena lenses and currently own two - 180/2.8 Sonnar and 45/2.8 Tessar. I use the Sonnar most with a Pentax 645 and the Tessar with an EOS digital body.

I took my first two LF shots today, one with the 90mm and another with the 210mm. Both with the lenses near infinity for focus. I already like the P quite a bit and cannot wait to see the results post-development.

Neil Deshpande