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David Higgs
8-Nov-2011, 04:51
out today

http://www.take-a-view.co.uk/2011_winners.htm

I didn't win :D

lots of HDR

Pete Watkins
8-Nov-2011, 06:06
The minute I saw Network Rail were involved I knew that it was gonna be crap. They can't even run a railway, let alone a photo competition!
With their recent record "Train crash in the landscape" would be more appropriate!
Pete.

Brian Ellis
8-Nov-2011, 06:55
Thanks, doesn't look like "crap" to me. I'd have been happy to have made many of those photographs.

Nathan Potter
8-Nov-2011, 09:20
I agree with Brian, there are some fine images there, although some are overwrought in various ways.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

lenser
8-Nov-2011, 09:47
Makes me wish I could travel there and trek the countryside with much film in tow. Some very beautiful work and locations here.

David Higgs
8-Nov-2011, 10:42
I think the rain and anticyclonic gloom might get you down - even coming from Missouri :p

David Higgs
8-Nov-2011, 10:49
I too would be happy to have taken some of those pictures, a few I like very much, a few I don't. I'm not sure it represents the very best landscape photography in Britain?

lenser
8-Nov-2011, 11:04
Well David, today would possibly be quite comparable since in my part of the state we are having rather gloomy storms with a bit of mist and atmosphere worthy of the Basil Rathbone version of the "Hound of the Baskervilles" (or the hilarious Mad Magazine version that took place in "Basketball Hall"). Even given the poor weather, I know of some areas of my state that I would love to be shooting in today, conditions be damned.

Traveling and shooting throughout the isles is a long term goal which I hope to achieve one day....gloom and all. Then again, so is dining my way across the isles and yes, that includes Haggis, kidney pie and the many other traditional fare.

Bob McCarthy
8-Nov-2011, 11:13
Looks like HDR is alive and well in Jolly ol' .......

bob

Nguss
8-Nov-2011, 11:54
There are a few nice photos but a few of them don't seem to be what I would normally associate with landscape photography. But that might just be me being picky. The winner is really nice though. I also understand that a few of the ones in the published book are cropped versions of the original submissions which is a bit naughty (although they are in the correct aspect ratio for the exhibition).

timparkin
8-Nov-2011, 12:31
Well they included 75% of my picture in the book and probably about 50% of it's colours.. Here's a scan showing the original picture on the right.

http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static/tmp/tav-timparkin.jpg

and here's a bigger version on twitter (right click on the picture and go to 'original')

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timparkin/5456492483/in/photostream

Please don't consider these images as an example of the best in British landscape photography (even, possibly especially, as I'm in it).

Here's a small group of photos that didn't make it past the screening round, never mind into the book..

http://www.flickr.com/groups/lpoty-rejects/

Tim

h2oman
8-Nov-2011, 12:37
Beautiful image, Tim (the one on the right, that is!).

Struan Gray
8-Nov-2011, 13:40
Ditto.

And well done Baxter.

bob carnie
8-Nov-2011, 13:50
FWIW there seems to be a strong Joe Cornish influence in many of the winners.

IanG
8-Nov-2011, 14:11
FWIW there seems to be a strong Joe Cornish influence in many of the winners.

That's not to everyones taste, there's a whole shoal of clones in the UK with very little individualism or personal style to their work.

Ian

dperez
8-Nov-2011, 15:24
I find it hard to decide the "best landscape photographer of the year" based on images limited to 800x800 72 ppi submissions. There are some good images there, but I'd like to see them large.

Ken Lee
8-Nov-2011, 16:17
Who is Joe Cornish ? I find a comedian by that name when I search with Google.

Frank Petronio
8-Nov-2011, 16:22
He is a very popular calendar and postcard type photographer, a rugged guy, less of an ass as Peter Lik.

IanG
8-Nov-2011, 16:50
He is a very popular calendar and postcard type photographer, a rugged guy, less of an ass as Peter Lik.

He's a highly competant landscape photographer, as Frank says, but then Frank's also right he's a bit of a chocolate box photographer, calendars and postcards etc, so easy to emulate.

Reality is probably Joe Cornish is much more than that but his clones don't appreciate that side.

Ian

Frank Petronio
8-Nov-2011, 16:53
He is a cut above the rest, it's more subtle than they do it here ;-p

IanG
8-Nov-2011, 17:23
He is a cut above the rest, it's more subtle than they do it here ;-p

That's quite wll put Frank :)

Ian

Steve Smith
8-Nov-2011, 23:38
He's a highly competant landscape photographer, as Frank says, but then Frank's also right he's a bit of a chocolate box photographer, calendars and postcards etc, so easy to emulate.

Also does a fair amount of work for The National Trust.


Steve.

David Higgs
9-Nov-2011, 00:31
Ken

try here http://www.joecornishgallery.co.uk/

Preeminent British Landscape Photographer, works for the National Trust, his images are everywhere. You could be critical and refer to the images as 'chocolate box' but that would be unfair as he takes them for commercial reasons - that's what the customer wants. He has other works on his site.

I'd be happy with 10% of his talent, I find getting decent colour tricky in the UK!

dave_whatever
9-Nov-2011, 00:58
Deriding Joe Cornish's work as "chocolate box" and "postcard" is just hugely ignorant. The guy knows how to use colour and dramatic lighting (as if that's something to be ashamed of!) but also has an eye for extremely well thought out composition that I have seen few photographers equal to.

EOTS
9-Nov-2011, 01:42
Deriding Joe Cornish's work as "chocolate box" and "postcard" is just hugely ignorant. The guy knows how to use colour and dramatic lighting (as if that's something to be ashamed of!) but also has an eye for extremely well thought out composition that I have seen few photographers equal to.

Having enjoyed a lot of Joe's books I can only second that wholeheartedly!

IanG
9-Nov-2011, 02:19
Deriding Joe Cornish's work as "chocolate box" and "postcard" is just hugely ignorant. The guy knows how to use colour and dramatic lighting (as if that's something to be ashamed of!) but also has an eye for extremely well thought out composition that I have seen few photographers equal to.

You need to read what I actually said properly and not misinterpret it.

He's a commercial landscape photographer his work is sold for calendars, postcards, books & other publications probably chocolate boxes as well. There is nothing wrong in that and I happen to think he's one of thebest in that field. It's one approach to landscape photography.

So yes "he's a bit of a chocolate box photographer, calendars and postcards etc, so easy to emulate." but I went on to say "Reality is probably Joe Cornish is much more than that but his clones don't appreciate that side."

That's not deriding Joe Cornish's work, however I would say that David Higgs comment that he's the "Preeminent British Landscape Photographer" needs qualifying to in his field which is commercial landscape photography.

There's other traditions and approachs to British landscape photography, which can be seen in the work of the late Fay Godwin, John Blakemore, Thomas Joshua Cooper, John Davies, Jem Southam, Paul Graham etc.

On a world stage probably John Davies (http://www.johndavies.uk.com/) is the UK's preeminent landscape photorapher and his work is quite different to Joe Cornish.

So other approaches to UK landscape photography seem to be under represented in the British Landscape Photographer of the Year Competition, that's what I think Bob Carnie was implying when he said "FWIW there seems to be a strong Joe Cornish influence in many of the winners."

Ian

Struan Gray
9-Nov-2011, 02:35
The guy knows how to use colour and dramatic lighting (as if that's something to be ashamed of!) but also has an eye for extremely well thought out composition that I have seen few photographers equal to.

So do the designers of chocolate boxes.

Joe Cornish is a good photographer, but is only an innovator in terms of the places and locations he photographs. That, actually, is a pretty big dollop of Kudos right there. His influence is pervasive and unmistakable - defining, for example, Staithes as the new Clovelly. Anyone who drives people to the Northwest Highlands or the Northumberland coast - or just gets them thinking about parts of Britain not usually regarded as beautiful or picturesque - is OK with me.

I've spent a fair bit of time in the Northwest Highlands, and in the Borders and Northumberland. Cornish tells a very restricted tale of those places, one that is strongly limited by conventions about what is worth photographing and the emotions photographs should evoke. The conventions are both powerful and pervasive in the general culture, but not struggling against them at all leaves you open to accusations of not thinking.

Have a look at the 2020 Vision project (http://www.2020v.org). In the areas of the UK I know well, the project as a whole is linked to contemporary concerns about landscape management, local empowerment and the real world links between landscapes and economies. The photographers, bless em, are still blathering on about the glories of unspoilt nature and meeting the face of heroic wilderness - despite the explicitly stated aims of the project they are a part of. That disconnect, that wilful ignorance of how the thing they love to photograph came to be, and how it now is managed to make it look the way it does, is the reason I and others find the chocolate box label appropriate.

David Higgs
9-Nov-2011, 08:06
What a beautifully thought out and structured re-post Struan - sadly lacking from some threads these days, thanks to others for other suggestions of UK landscape photographers.

bob carnie
9-Nov-2011, 09:17
I mentioned Joe , because I have met him here in Canada, we opened a show of his work and in fact still have his work hanging in our front with others work.

What can I say of Joe, I spent about 10 days with him, with a workshop that launched the day the economy went to hell. Then followed by a student show which he helped with.

He is an amazingly hard working gentleman, what you see is what you get, he is very patient with young artists and very willing to help.
He now works with a phase back , but most of the work I have seen and scanned were 5x4 transparancies in mint condition.
He is very deliberate about each photograph he takes, and will set up and not take the image if he feels the image isn't working.
His colour eye is amazingly good and could work in any colour lab as a colour corrector. A skill I might add is very hard to get or have.

On top of it all he was a fun guy, and a real pleasure to spend time with, btw he hates to fly.

I mentioned his name as Joe has been around for a long time and a lot of the images in the competition were certainly inspired by his work.

Brian Ellis
9-Nov-2011, 09:30
So do the designers of chocolate boxes.

Joe Cornish is a good photographer, but is only an innovator in terms of the places and locations he photographs. That, actually, is a pretty big dollop of Kudos right there. His influence is pervasive and unmistakable - defining, for example, Staithes as the new Clovelly. Anyone who drives people to the Northwest Highlands or the Northumberland coast - or just gets them thinking about parts of Britain not usually regarded as beautiful or picturesque - is OK with me.

I've spent a fair bit of time in the Northwest Highlands, and in the Borders and Northumberland. Cornish tells a very restricted tale of those places, one that is strongly limited by conventions about what is worth photographing and the emotions photographs should evoke. The conventions are both powerful and pervasive in the general culture, but not struggling against them at all leaves you open to accusations of not thinking.

Have a look at the 2020 Vision project (http://www.2020v.org). In the areas of the UK I know well, the project as a whole is linked to contemporary concerns about landscape management, local empowerment and the real world links between landscapes and economies. The photographers, bless em, are still blathering on about the glories of unspoilt nature and meeting the face of heroic wilderness - despite the explicitly stated aims of the project they are a part of. That disconnect, that wilful ignorance of how the thing they love to photograph came to be, and how it now is managed to make it look the way it does, is the reason I and others find the chocolate box label appropriate.

Different photographers have different values. Yours apparently coincide with those of the 2020 Vision Project. Others coincide with others. There's room for both without either being derided by use of a pejorative label.

Struan Gray
9-Nov-2011, 10:07
Different photographers have different values. Yours apparently coincide with those of the 2020 Vision Project. Others coincide with others.

Um. not really. Joe Cornish is one of the lead photographers on 2020 Vision. The others work in very similar styles.

I have a lot of sympathy with the stated aims of 2020 Vision, but it has uncritically swallowed a false and self-deluding image of British Nature. The County Wildlife Trusts, who manage many of the reserves being photographed, have a much more nuanced and inclusive view of what they call a 'living landscape', which accords more closely with my ideals.



There's room for both without either being derided by use of a pejorative label.

There's also room for the odd rhetorical flourish. 'Chocolate box' isn't that bad. Derision - from me at least - comes in stronger flavours than hazelnut cluster.


Struan

David: thanks.

Frank Petronio
9-Nov-2011, 10:49
'Chocolate box' isn't that bad. Derision - from me at least - comes in stronger flavours than hazelnut cluster.

Might steal that

tgtaylor
9-Nov-2011, 12:01
Might steal that

"Good artists borrow, great artists steal." Now where did I hear that?

Thomas

timparkin
9-Nov-2011, 12:15
I think the pejorative term 'chocolate box' and 'postcard' photographer are quite different from each other. The typical chocolate box photograph is a dreamy almost pictorialist representation of the landscape. Postcard photography is typically almost deadpan in aesthetic; perhaps some of the postcards show a little compositional style but the archetypal shot is a full blue sky, high contrast head on view of it's subject.

Joe has two sides to his photography in the public view - his gallery and the associated website and his books. The gallery get to choose and sometimes commission work but is a separate entity that works to make money and hence a lot of pictures are of the local area and are typically 'easily accessible' in terms of composition. Within these constraints Joe works to add something extra to each image in terms of composition and it is this particular skill that Joe is most well known for (although most people probably don't realise what they are seeing). The ability to guide the eye around the picture through composition is where Joe's work stands out.

However, we then have Joe's books; the first of which 'First Light' is a stunning first publication and an inspiration to many photographers. It is essentially working in the romantic tradition that the British hold so close to their hearts (even if it's origins are in Germany with Caspar David Friedrich) and the style is continued in his Scotland's Coast and Scotland's Mountains books. These are more Joe's personal style but still with a strong bent from the publisher.

Joe's personal work doesn't get as much exposure at all but I'm hoping that he'll have a website dedicated to just that sometime soon.

However, back to the romantic tradition. I'm unsure of how you can subdivide the genre. Does any picture that shows the landscape that doesn't include modern human influence count as 'romantic'? That's a pretty large swathe of landscape photography in one genre then. Or is it just photographs that show an overt beauty? Or is it just colour that shoves the work into that genre? I look at Faye Godwin's Land work and much of Joshua Cooper's that seems to fit the romantic mould albeit in black and white.

Taking the 'non-romantic' photography I see - I do get quite fed up of this deadpan, uncomposed, unbalanced aesthetic. It seems that every student leaving art college takes the topographic idea and perpetuates photography that is in every way as bad as the camera magazine romantic knock offs.

Regardless of school of photography, it is the proponents that are working very hard at creating something honest and creative that I admire. This includes Joe Cornish, Paul Wakefield, David Ward, etc and just as much I enjoy work such as Fay Godwin's early photography (I think she lost it in a big way later in her career as she tried to hitch on to the next thing, then the next thing rather than staying true to her own vision), Michael Kenna, Jem Southam, Andrew Nadolski but don't enjoy work that has little to say such as Harry Cory Wright (who has taken "but look how big it is!" to new heights although I do love a couple of the pictures, they neither work as inspiring romantic photography, topographic photography or have a coherent philosophy beyond I was here, this is what I saw - great printing though!).

Mostly thought, I think if you are going to insult a fellow photographer, you can at least make it more interesting to read the 'chocolate box/postcard' epithet.

Tim

p.s. as an aside, a quick question for Struan. Who is representing the wild in a non-cliched way? (in the UK in particular but also in general)

Struan Gray
9-Nov-2011, 12:17
Might steal that

Steal away.... although wouldn't that make you a Great Artist (tm)?


Lest anyone think I'm against saturated landscapes with wide angle lens, I'm not. It's just that they represent one tiny, restricted aspect of landscape appreciation, and their uncritical consumption leads to some odd distortions in public attitudes and policies.

Ian Cameron (www.transientlight.co.uk (http://www.transientlight.co.uk/)), who got a commendation for the Achnasheen tree, gets my vote because he covers ground that others just drive by on their way to Joe Cornish's holy tripod holes. Findhorn Bay and Morayshire for example aren't on many people's lists of top landscape destinations - but you can make fine photographs there all the same. That said, the tree is a pollard, probably a rowan (it's a little hard to tell from a small jpg), and both facts make it a marker of discontinued land use - of human economic activity - not a lone survivor in the wilderness at all.

I have even more time for commercial photography like that of Archie Miles (www.archiemiles.co.uk (http://www.archiemiles.co.uk/)), who has no pretense to be advancing the art, but uses photography 'straight' to illustrate the land and the actors and forces that play upon it. You get a sense that he knows the thing he's photographing, and is willing to allow it to speak for itself, rather than force it into a particular aesthetic and conceptual straitjacket.


PS: Tim - your post showed up after I'd written this. I'll have a try and think of some recommendations.

timparkin
9-Nov-2011, 12:27
I have even more time for commercial photography like that of Archie Miles (www.archiemiles.co.uk (http://www.archiemiles.co.uk/)), who has no pretense to be advancing the art, but uses photography 'straight' to illustrate the land and the actors and forces that play upon it. You get a sense that he knows the thing he's photographing, and is willing to allow it to speak for itself, rather than force it into a particular aesthetic and conceptual straitjacket.

Hmm - Would have to disagree I think. Do you really prefer

http://www.archiemiles.co.uk/Images/Scotland/am_Scotlandwebsite005.jpg

to

http://jc.timparkin.co.uk/filehandler/1d34c4e38ea44eeeb4a0d67d98dea6a8/0ebccd6781dd4ed2a694bb5e0ab2e55a?size=1000x970

Is it something about overt composition that is the issue? I'm not sure I get why you would prefer Archie over Joe in terms of photography apart from perhaps a naive simplicity of execution?

Tim

Tom Kershaw
9-Nov-2011, 12:57
Tim,

Your point about Fay Godwin is interesting as I previously thought of her work in fairly high regard, however when I went and looked more closely at the books and the full spectrum of her work it became apparent the quality was not always consistent. Some good large format black & white work making up for some fairly dubious efforts (e.g. the later flower series)...

Tom

Struan Gray
9-Nov-2011, 13:02
I get why you would prefer Archie over Joe in terms of photography apart from perhaps a naive simplicity of execution?

When I assess a photographer, rather than their photographs, I look at their practice, and their work as a whole. Miles and Cornish are working for different markets, and pulling individual images up for a beauty contest isn't really fair.

I'd vote for many of the survey photographs in the Scottish national monuments record (canmore.rcahms.gov.uk (http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/)) over the Cornish school too. They speak and inform in ways which I simply find more interesting.

Please remember, I *like* Joe Cornish's work, and respect him greatly as a working stiff. He just doesn't tickle my intellectual or artistic curiosity very much.

When it comes to consciously produced art, I don't really know of any photographers who share both my aesthetic and historical/ecological sensibilities. Norman Ackroyd, (normanackroyd.com (http://www.normanackroyd.com/)) a printmaker who etches plates in the field (take that you ULF 'oh I worked so hard for this image' types) has been a large influence on me. As have quite a few painters and watercolorists. The photographers who inspire me tend to be the ones who have the nerve to plough their own furrow, even if it has no relation to my own.

I recently discovered Michael Shanks (www.archeographer.com (http://www.archaeographer.com/Landscapes/Northumberland-Chorography/7270885_tSqTpL#467452979_fbBYP)) and his Northumberland photographs. I'm still at the 'gosh this resonates' stage for now, but I don't think it's an accident that he's an archeologist.

Brian Ellis
9-Nov-2011, 14:36
Um. not really. Joe Cornish is one of the lead photographers on 2020 Vision. The others work in very similar styles.

I have a lot of sympathy with the stated aims of 2020 Vision, but it has uncritically swallowed a false and self-deluding image of British Nature. The County Wildlife Trusts, who manage many of the reserves being photographed, have a much more nuanced and inclusive view of what they call a 'living landscape', which accords more closely with my ideals.




There's also room for the odd rhetorical flourish. 'Chocolate box' isn't that bad. Derision - from me at least - comes in stronger flavours than hazelnut cluster.


Struan

David: thanks.

Clever

Frank Petronio
9-Nov-2011, 17:17
Hmm - Would have to disagree I think. Do you really prefer

http://www.archiemiles.co.uk/Images/Scotland/am_Scotlandwebsite005.jpg

to

http://jc.timparkin.co.uk/filehandler/1d34c4e38ea44eeeb4a0d67d98dea6a8/0ebccd6781dd4ed2a694bb5e0ab2e55a?size=1000x970

Is it something about overt composition that is the issue? I'm not sure I get why you would prefer Archie over Joe in terms of photography apart from perhaps a naive simplicity of execution?

Tim

Archie's is a lot more appealing to me, I really don't follow these guys so I am just going on the images....

Brian K
9-Nov-2011, 18:25
Interesting discussion. Some of the images were quite good, some were really uninspiring and fairly predictable. Any "Best of" thing is going to have a range of work, but also will most likely cater to the typical taste level and is most likely not going to be deeply personal or have a more unique slant to it.

I think the comments about "chocolate box" type work tends to be a common problem with color landscape work that attempts to be pretty. It's usually color driven more than content or design driven although there was some excellent color work in this group.

Ken Lee
9-Nov-2011, 18:45
"Good artists borrow, great artists steal." Now where did I hear that?

Thomas

Igor Stravinsky as stated on the following web sites: http://www.google.com/search?q=stravinsky+quote+lesser+artists&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t (http://www.google.com/search?q=stravinsky+quote+lesser+artists&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

Brian K
9-Nov-2011, 18:56
Igor Stravinsky

It's a paraphrase of something TS Elliot wrote about poets, although it has been attributed to Picasso on several occasions.