Burke & James Grover 8X10

[John Conway]

Yeah, I know. They say she's ugly, funky, crude and bulky. But I'll say this about her, she looks solid and built like a tank. I have been wanting another 8X10 camera but I didn't want to spend a lot. I did not even know the Grover was made in 8X10. When I saw the camera I said to myself, "thats cool". I think I will strip the wood down and refinish it natural.

[Michael Clark]

I've had my 5x7 for 3years now and enjoy it.Have not striped it yet.

Mike

[John Conway]

Hey Mike, I think the B&J's are great cameras. I have an early 4x5 Orbit that I picked up some time ago. That one is mint. I could not resist the red knobs and red bellows with the light gray finish. My workbench is set up for wood finishing since I have been working on an old gun stock. So I am going to get right on the Grover as soon as the postman drops her off. I've seen some very nice examples of the B&J's refinished, but not a Grover. If I am correct, only the 8X10 had wood standards.

[John Conway]

Maybe I am wrong. Does your 5X7 have wood standards?

[Doug Howk]

I have an 8X10 Grover that I've stripped off the grey paint. The wood is light color (ash?). Still has the original red bellows that I've patched all holes from the inside with liquid electricians tape. It's on a Majestic studio tripod and the combination is great for still-lifes and portraits.

[John Conway]

Hi Doug I would very much like to see a picture of your camera .

[Michael Clark]

Maybe I am wrong. Does your 5X7 have wood standards?
John, yes my 5x7 has a wood front standard and a u shaped aluminum standers holding the the wood back and ground glass, it is a wooden flat bed field camera.

Mike

[MIke Sherck]

My 8x10 Grover monorail is a serviceable camera; it won't win any beauty contests but it gets the job done. Both front and rear standards are aluminum, the front and rear camera parts themselves are wood painted gray. The bellows is red, of course. Focusing along the rail is geared, with teeth along the top of the rail. When I got her she had apparently lived most of her life in a studio and is in excellent condition; she's got a couple more scratches now but nothing dishonorable. That's her, in my avatar picture.

Mike

[John Conway]

Hi Mike, My Grover is still on a postal service truck somewhere on it's way to me. My return to large format has me heavily invested into 4x5 equipment. But I wanted to also return to 8x10 but without selling the house. The Grover is just right for my needs.And I must admit, the battleship construction of the B&J's appeals to me.I plan on using her in the field so I have to figure out a practical way of transporting the camera.I'm sure I can find an old B&J case somewhere. I want to keep it all together on the rail when moving her around.

[MIke Sherck]

I've periodically had ambitions of building a case for mine, but it rides very well fully assembled in the trunk and I'm a lazy sod, so... :) In the field I carry it screwed to the top of my tripod. The tripod legs are covered with pipe insulation foam but I also fold up the focusing cloth as additional padding for my shoulder and carry the tripod/camera combination over a shoulder. Everything else is in a soft-sided insulated carrier, which I carry over the other shoulder for balance. In the carrier are my two favorite lenses (210mm Fuji and 420mm RD Artar,) four to six film holders, meter, loupe, filters, etc. Even as an aging (ahem: 'maturing') fart, I can carry it this way for a mile or two without strain. There's room for more stuff in the bag but I've not found a need for more junk and am averse to carrying things I don't need.

My B&J was an excellent purchase from Ebay. It came with some other cruft I wasn't interested in and after selling that, I think I have somewhere between $0 and $100 in my camera (it wasn't something I bothered to remember, so...)

I'm actually pretty content with the outfit. I'd really, really like to have another Wehman 8x10 and would gladly trade the 420mm RD Artar for a nice Fuji 420mm L to recreate the outfit I had several years ago and sold to pay medical bills, but for my frankly amateur efforts this current outfit is fine.

Mike

[tim o'brien]

The 5x7 grover has wooden frames but metal standards. At least mine does. It has a hex shaped rail and cast supports. The 5x7 field camera has both wood standards and frames. Forget the name they hung on it.

Anyhow I keep hoping someone will buy them before I refinish them. The V-8 Deardorff covers just about all the LF formats I need so the B&Js are expendable. They are tanks though.

tim in san jose

[Michael Clark]

I'm not sure which model I have but it does have a tag on top the front standard as View Camera. With a wooden front standard and metal back standard support it must be Half way between a Grover and Field camera.

[Jim Jones]

Michael Clark -- I've occasionally used one like yours, usually with a 4x5 back, since 1975. It is a bit shakey when compared to the monorail, especially with the extension rail. These cameras were designed to get the job done, not to be elegant. They succeeded well. They are still one of the bargains in LF photography.

[Michael Clark]

Jim, every thing you have said about them is true, in fact I have nick named it Shaky Jake, but have not had many blurry negs, just light leaks form the film holders.

Mike

[John Conway]

Wow..... I was all excited when the box arrived at my door. Then I picked it up and heard a jingle sound. I knew that second that the ground glass had shattered. That is the problem with these ebay people that are not familiar with photo equipment. I even explained in detail how to wrap it. Oh well, it happens. I love the camera though. Very nice shape overall. And that solid bar monorail is heavy duty. I will just pick up a ground glass. Pics on the way.

[John Conway]

Now that I have been playing with my Grover for a while(actually non stop for three hours) I've come to realize that it is a really great camera. And boy oh boy does it look handsome sitting on top of my J.G. Saltzman indestructible tripod.

[Michael Clark]

John, show us some picks of the camera. I broke the ground glass on my 5x7 when cleaning it,ordered another one either Huft glass or another outfit can't remember..

Mike

[John Conway]

I'll get the pics up tonight.I think mine is an early model. The rail is smooth and has no gear track. It is a good design. Focusing is nice and tight. Its like the early Calumet design. My camera must have been used in a studio that was not very busy. Since it is so clean. And I still can't get over the rail. I mean, the rail can be used for home defense when not being used on the camera

[John Conway]

Here she is. The only thing I haven't cleaned is the bellows.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2442yxk.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/11aljwl.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/262m9l3.jpg

[MIke Sherck]

I wonder whether the rail with the track is newer or older than the smooth ones? Ah, well... your rail is considerably longer than mine; mine is 20". It is a rather useful camera, though! good luck with yours; I hope you have as much fun with it as I have with mine!

Mike

[John Conway]

The smooth rail is the earlier version. I researched the camera and checked out catalogs from the 1950's and the later 60's. The earlier catalog description goes into detail about the smooth rail. The later catalog describes the benefits of the geared rail. I like to check out the old catalogs. Camera eccentric is a great site.Man, that sure is a long rail. Much longer than I want to stretch the old bellows. I plan on making this camera my main 8X10 outfit and it will be a two lens set. I'm keeping the 8X10 department simple, a 250mm and 360mm and thats it. I sure miss my polaroid stuff.Just recently a box of 809 was found in my closet. I had the machine but never plugged it in, always liked the hand crank. It was great making those instant 8X10 images. They were so nice. And taught me how to use an 8X10 camera. Anyway, my return to 8X10 and my new friend has me excited.

[Michael Clark]

John,that tripod looks like parts from the inside of a submarine, don't think you will have any shaking going on with that tripod. nice camera.

Mike

[John Conway]

Isn't that tripod a dandy. A long time ago in New York City I stopped into a camera shop, 18th street I think, and it was for sale. I had to have it. You know I never thought of a submarine, but now that you mention it, yeah.

[T. Schruda]

well its a rather old thread.. but why not link here.

i started using LF a few years ago with an ole 9x12 i found at my dad's... now i upgraded to a grover that i got for quite a deal on ebay. wooden.. and with a new bellow.

i have a few questions that still apear..

it comes with a 21inch rail.. and i got a 300mm convertible schneider kreuznach with it. when converted i cant go as close as i like for portraits becaus the rail is not long enough.
so i loosened the front stand and turned the sides around.. now the front is sticking out in front of the sides rather then behind them.. you know what i mean?
gives me a bit more "rail"... does that make sense?

2nd.. the front stand again.. on the few pictures i found online.. i can see that there are 3 screws to hold the front stand. the bottom 2 are in line and going through the aluminum side rails.. and the top screw beeing behind. so the top is for tilting.. and the 2 bottoms are for shifting in line.. right?
even if i have my side rails like that.. i cannot have the 2 bottom screws in line through the sides because then there is not enough room for the top wheel to fit nor turn.. any idea on that?

otherwise.. nice baby *

thnx for takin the time

[MIke Sherck]

well its a rather old thread.. but why not link here.

i started using LF a few years ago with an ole 9x12 i found at my dad's... now i upgraded to a grover that i got for quite a deal on ebay. wooden.. and with a new bellow.

i have a few questions that still apear..

it comes with a 21inch rail.. and i got a 300mm convertible schneider kreuznach with it. when converted i cant go as close as i like for portraits becaus the rail is not long enough.
so i loosened the front stand and turned the sides around.. now the front is sticking out in front of the sides rather then behind them.. you know what i mean?
gives me a bit more "rail"... does that make sense?

2nd.. the front stand again.. on the few pictures i found online.. i can see that there are 3 screws to hold the front stand. the bottom 2 are in line and going through the aluminum side rails.. and the top screw beeing behind. so the top is for tilting.. and the 2 bottoms are for shifting in line.. right?
even if i have my side rails like that.. i cannot have the 2 bottom screws in line through the sides because then there is not enough room for the top wheel to fit nor turn.. any idea on that?

otherwise.. nice baby *

thnx for takin the time

I'm still very happy with my 8x10 Grover monorail. Turning the front standard around shouldn't cause any problems I can see just by looking at mine, and I usually take one of the two sets of knobs on that strange double-plate on the front off anyway as friction from one set of knobs seems to hold it in place just fine and it's much easier to loosen one set of knobs for rise/fall rather than two sets of knobs. Perhaps with a heavier lens both sets of knobs would be useful, I don't know.

Mike

[John Kasaian]

Congrats on the "new" 8x10!

[Tom Monego]

Had a Grover for about a year, used it with a 10 inch Commercial Ektar. Was just too big and heavy for the work I wanted to do, bought it with a tripod but wasn't strong enough. Sold it an purchased an old grey metal Toyo Field. That was ages ago.
I took a trip down Skyline drive and we would stop, every one else had an instamatic or maybe a Nikon or Pentax. I would pull the Grover out of my trunk and everyone else at the parking area would just stare.

Tom

[cobbu2]

I'll try to keep this going, I too have an 8x10 Grover, my first LF camera! It has the much-maligned 305mm Carl Meyer, but so far from the tests I've conducted, the lens is a good one. It also lived its former life in a studio.

To transport it, I modified a Rubbermaid bin, making cutouts by the bin handles so the collapsed camera can hang upside down from the bar with the ends protruding outside the bin. I then lash it with bungee cords to a suitcase cart. It works so long as I don't have to travel by air with it! I'll post some pics of it ASAP.

[ImSoNegative]

John, yes my 5x7 has a wood front standard and a u shaped aluminum standers holding the the wood back and ground glass, it is a wooden flat bed field camera.

Mike

mike i have the exact same camera, i stripped mine down in december, amazing that painted that beautiful wood green? yes mine was like some weird green color. burke and james might be crude and funky but they have all the movements a person will ever use. i really like mine and use it all the time.

here are a couple of before and after pics

[cobbu2]

Ok, here are pics of my 8x10 Grover as promised:

8852088521

It could use some touching up eventually, but until then it works great!

[Michael Clark]

O yea!, that looks really nice with the paint removed. Mine is still the old "Battleship Grey" and one of these days .. Like how you fitted the Packard in behind the lens board.

Mike
mike i have the exact same camera, i stripped mine down in december, amazing that painted that beautiful wood green? yes mine was like some weird green color. burke and james might be crude and funky but they have all the movements a person will ever use. i really like mine and use it all the time.

here are a couple of before and after pics