"Sky Rock" Petroglyph

[dperez]

I located "Sky Rock," near Bishop, CA over the weekend and I would be willing to provide an LF Forum member with the GPS coordinates to the site. Just send me a PM.

I recommend a 4x4 vehicle, and some good shoes. There is a little rock hopping involved. Rock climbing gear might be useful, or a lightweight aluminum ladder 6-8 feet tall might also work fine.

http://www.mountainlight.com/AA-images/aa_1161_480.jpg
Credit - Galen Rowell
Source: The Mountain Light Gallery Page

-DP

[ROL]

Galen was known for keeping secret his locations, even to those he didn't pioneer. He's keeping an even bigger one now – one that we'd all like to know the answer to, but won't likely learn until we too cannot tell anyone else. Why not just post the location for everyone?

[dsphotog]

The park service also won't "advertise" where petroglyph sites are located, to cut down on theft/vandalism.

[jayabbas]

Galen was known for keeping secret his locations, even to those he didn't pioneer. He's keeping an even bigger one now – one that we'd all like to know the answer to, but won't likely learn until we too cannot tell anyone else. Why not just post the location for everyone?

I hope he does not post location as here in AZ many sites have been thoroughly vandalized by GPS toting pottery and artifact thieves. :mad: I commend Dperez for putting in the sweat equity in finding the site and hope he has many good neg's for his effort.

[dsphotog]

Congats on finding the holy grail of the Eastern Sierras!
That rock looks very large in pictures, how big is it really?

[tgtaylor]

"I recommend a 4x4 vehicle, and some good shoes. There is a little rock hopping involved. Rock climbing gear might be useful, or a lightweight aluminum ladder 6-8 feet tall might also work fine."

Several of us found Sky Rock on a trip to the eastern Sierra a couple of years back. WHile a little rock hopping is required and good shoes always comes in handy, a 4x4 or ladder is not required. Once you know where it is at accessing it is fairly straight forward and around a 30 or less minute hike from the road below.

If you know where it is at, please don't post the location on the internet for the obivious reasons.

Thomas

[vinny]

A little heavy on that grad filter, don't you think?

[dasBlute]

I'd say don't publish it. People will be able to google the results forever...
after visiting Petroglyph national monument and seeing all the modern
stick figures and <boy>+<girl> graffiti, I'd fear for the site.

[dperez]

I do not want to anger people by posting the GPS coordinates for anyone to find; however, as I mentioned to a couple people already, I have no problems sharing this info with responsible people, like members of this forum--when asked.

I am not one of those that believe in keeping such sites a secret, as these sites are for all of us to enjoy, but I am also cognizant of the fact that there are people out there that might cause damage to such sites.http://www.eugenecarsey.com/petroglyphs/redcanyon/set1remove01.jpg

So, if you'd like the location just PM me and I'll share it with you, and I hope sometime down the road the favor may be returned.

Regards,

-DP

[dperez]

It seems some thought that the image I linked to in post #1 of this thread was made by me. It is not mine, it was taken by the late Galen Rowell. I gave credit to both him and the Mountain Light Gallery site where the image is hosted. I don't want anyone to think that I am trying to take credit for a picture that I did not author.

[tgtaylor]

I do not want to anger people by posting the GPS coordinates for anyone to find; however, as I mentioned to a couple people already, I have no problems sharing this info with responsible people, like members of this forum--when asked.

I am not one of those that believe in keeping such sites a secret, as these sites are for all of us to enjoy, but I am also cognizant of the fact that there are people out there that might cause damage to such sites


Unfortunately not every member on this forum can be trusted to be "responsible" and even if they are there is the risk that they will blab the location to someone who isn't.

Frankly I am of the opinion that those who take the time and effort to find the site on their own are more likely to be "responsible." That the site exists today without being desecrated is proof of that IMO. If you know the location, then keeping it to yourself is the best policy to help preserve it for the future.

Thomas

[dasBlute]

I'll just add that the site is probably sacred to local Indian tribes.

[Drew Wiley]

Easy enough to find, and already a cliche. That grad filter diagonal and the PS hyped color makes the shot look corny anyway.

[Michael Gordon]

PLEASE, PLEASE - DO NOT give information on this location. As you are aware, this panel is untarnished by modern man - unlike others in the Volcanic Tablelands - and it can only stay this way if few know about it. Let others use their sense of adventure (or not) to find it, if they desire.

How do you know if someone is responsible merely through email contact? In this age of photo-trophy-hunting, we don't need photographers lining up at this sacred site so that they can 'bag it' like Galen did. PLEASE, Daniel, I respectfully ask you to not share the location info.

[Harley Goldman]

Great that you found the location, but due to wildfire disbursement of info in this modern age, I would suggest you not tell anyone where it is.

You tell a responsible soul on this forum, they tell a friend, that friend tells a couple more friends, one or more of them posts it on the web and next thing you know, the location is vandalized and trashed.

My take on it, anyway.

Harley

[Drew Wiley]

Or worse. Someone will want to hold a workshop out there and the herds will multiply.
It will end up like the "Wave" in Utah and a lottery to see how many people can go in a
given day.

[Preston]

This is likely a sacred place and is a priceless artifact. Please keep the location secret.

--P

[Michael Gordon]

As I continue to ponder this, I just remembered a recently famous case in which 60 year old James Redd - Blanding, Utah's esteemed and presumably "responsible" doctor - and his daughter were charged with illegal trafficking in American Indian artifacts. Thankfully, Utah's sacred sites won't have to worry about him anymore.
http://protectsacredsites.blogspot.com/2009/07/redd-daughter-admit-to-looting-selling.html

Hopefully, you'll understand that you cannot control who will gain access to the information you want to freely provide. Some modern humans have the horrible habit of vandalizing and looting sacred sites. I wouldn't care as much if I didn't tire of seeing fences around these sites; seeing portions of rock faces sawed/chipped out and removed; and seeing modern idiot glyphs pecked on top of historic rock art.

The more people that know, the more likely the site will be damaged. Please think about it.

[Guy Tal]

I felt compelled to add my input after receiving a link to this thread from a friend. I used to share your belief that responsible photographers can be trusted with this kind of information. I no longer do. Having worked in the southwest for many years, I had the misfortune to see two sites I discovered and shared in this manner destroyed.
As someone mentioned above, it may not be the person you tell but the one they tell or further down the line. Trust me when I say you will feel terrible if this panel was ever vandalized and you were left wondering if you were partly responsible.
Please don't put yourself and this pricelss location at risk of irreversible damage.

Guy

[Vaughn]

My opinion, don't tell even if asked.

[Drew Wiley]

Just too many tire tracks might tempt some kids to snoop around with spray paint.
Even out in that part of the world you've got brats like that. More often, however,
it's some cheapo-beer-guzzlin rednecks that decide the rock art is ideal for target practice. That's something I've seen quite a bit of, bullet holes on petroglyphs and pictographs. Plus the usual assortment of carved names, dates, and initials. The last
thing anyone needs is this kind of place ending up on a feature travel magazine article
or a guidebook.

[LF4Fun]

gentleman: would you go further as closing all the NPs to prevent so call "irresponsible" people from damaging the parks? and only allow a few privileged one to enjoy the beauty?

btw, this topic has been debated many times on many forums.

[Drew Wiley]

Calling attention to something fragile is just looking for trouble. There's something
special about "discovering" something yourself within solitude and without a lot of
modern detritus laying around, even if someone else has been there before. You don't
get that kind of experience holding onto a metal handrail following a herd up a paved
trail in a Natl Park. Fortunately, there are Parks which are largely wilderness, and even
a heavily trampled place like Yosemite has significant patches of backcountry where
solitude is the norm. I took a rainy day hike in the early Spring one time to what is
arguably the most impressive set of petroglyphs in California. No one was around in
many miles. I carried my 8x10 a few miles to the site and it was a totally different
kind of experience than having other people around. And it allowed me to take my
time photographing. Unfortunately, as spectacular as the color and textures were,
the biggest logistical problem was simply finding some section of the rock art that
hadn't been vandalized back in the 1800's when the site was first discovered. Some
of their names were carved clear across the faces of the petroglyphs just like billboards. They wanted everyone to know they were here first. Then more names followed. Probably 90% of the particular rock art was defaced before the turn of the century. Nothing would have been left if the site had not become isolated and relatively forgotten since then.

[Harley Goldman]

gentleman: would you go further as closing all the NPs to prevent so call "irresponsible" people from damaging the parks? and only allow a few privileged one to enjoy the beauty?

The oldest living single organism in the world is a bristlecone pine in the White Mountains of California. That tree is named Methuselah. The Forest Service will not disclose the exact location of the tree out of the fear that idiot yahoos will destroy it, just for yuks. I see pretty much an exact parallel with the petroglygh in question.

I don't see it as a "close the whole park for the privileged" issue. It is more protecting an irreplaceable historical gem, because yahoos will go to it and destroy it if the location is readily available.

There is a reason the Mona Lisa is behind thick glass in the Louve. A certain small segment of the population loves to destroy valuable things. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with creating a privileged class, as you seem to infer with your national park analogy.

[Jeffrey Sipress]

Very good, Harley. I concur.

[Juergen Sattler]

gentleman: would you go further as closing all the NPs to prevent so call "irresponsible" people from damaging the parks? and only allow a few privileged one to enjoy the beauty?

btw, this topic has been debated many times on many forums.

Well, I said more than once that some people should not be allowed access to national parks. There are more idiots than one would think who have no respect at all for nature and behave like complete morons. Then there are those who just drive through the parks without ever getting out of their damn cars - just hold that little P&S camera out the window and take pics - and I am not talking about handicapped people!

Sorry for the rant.

[Drew Wiley]

Harley - there are lots of folks who know exactly where the Methuselah tree is. In fact, one relatively famous outdoor photographer cut a limb off it to put on his fireplace mantle. Allegedly some even older bristlecones have now been identified in the desert mtns of Utah. Same kind of problem I've seen with some pristine canyons
in the Southwest; real quiet until the BLM posted an official "wilderness" sign at the
mouth of the canyon and it subsequently got trampled. Debates are fine in this society. What isn't fine is when the outcome of the debate is essentially irreversible,
like damming Glen Canyon or putting oil infrastructure in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge.
Once you smash the Hope Diamond, it's never going to be the same, regardless of the
cumulative carats after the act.

[Darin Boville]

There are very few secret places any more. Technology is telling everyone where everything is, at least if you know about camera metadata :)

--Darin

[Drew Wiley]

Darin - that's why I scout out all those fantastic photo spots ahead of a trip and then
go the opposite direction and find secret spots of my own; and there are plenty
of them. Ironically, sometimes you just have to be a half mile off some popular trail or
known scenic wonder to find something even more remarkable without even a footprint
in sight anywhere. Let the herds have their cliches.

[Darin Boville]

Darin - that's why I scout out all those fantastic photo spots ahead of a trip and then
go the opposite direction and find secret spots of my own; and there are plenty
of them. Ironically, sometimes you just have to be a half mile off some popular trail or
known scenic wonder to find something even more remarkable without even a footprint
in sight anywhere. Let the herds have their cliches.

"Siri, track Drew. Identify locations where he takes pictures. Post results on the LFF board."

:)

--Darin

[Peter York]

I've always wanted to walk into the ___ Gulch ranger station with a pickaxe and a burlap sack, asking where the best spot for finding a pot and a mummy is. All joking aside, this don't ask, don't tell business can get quite farcical, as at ___ Gulch. They sell postcards of ruins there, and if you point to the picture and ask them where so and so is, they won't respond. Turn the postcard over and read the popular name of the ruin to them and they will give you full directions.

The real artifact hunters know the terrain better than you, are probably scouting it in a helicopter rather than a 4x4, and have a full database of logged archaeological sites. No actions on our part will stop them. And don't forget that Native Americans will desecrate these petroglyphs under certain circumstances. The Navajo ritually desecrated an Anasazi petroglyph recently (years ago I think) because they viewed it as the source of an evildoer's power.

I have no idea what all this means. It is hearbreaking to see a petoglyph riddled with bullet holes, or aerial photographs of Mimbres pot-hunting. Yet I would not have been able to see so many historical wonders if someone didn't tell me where they were.

[brianam]

Timely topic. I've just finished two books with discussion of petroglyphs, and preserving our heritage: "The Void, the Grid & the Sign: Traversing the Great Basin" by William Fox, and "Vanishing America: in Pursuit of Our Elusive Landscapes" by James Conaway.

The former has extensive discussion of petroglyphs "culture" in Nevada (w/o directions to any of them), and the latter is IMO particularly well-written, and was really educational for me --if a little depressing.

[Drew Wiley]

Following me around has its risks, Darin. Just ask anyone who has tried. Sticking to the
trail ain't my thing. Besides, I rarely have recognizable "scenery" in my shots. Postcards
ain't my thing either. ... But as someone who spent a lot of time studying archaeology
in my younger years, it's a sad thing to see how much gets destroyed by real-estate
bulldozers, ignorance, or even deliberate vandalism. Glad I did get certain petroglyph
shots before they vanished forever. In some places they're pretty rare. It can be fun
to try and interpret them, but you can only get so far before it's just guesswork. I've
helped friends on some of their books, and a few childhood native American friends of
mine are still compiling and publishing as much local lore as they can salvage.

[Darin Boville]

>>Following me around has its risks, Darin. Just ask anyone who has tried. Sticking to the
trail ain't my thing.<<

You don't know Siri, I think. She and her brethren (what's the female form of this word) can follow most people, if they really wanted to!

--Darin

[Michael Gordon]

You have not responded to the many concerns voiced here, Daniel. Are you too busy answering all the GPS location requests?

[D. Bryant]

...PS hyped color makes the shot look corny anyway.

Prior to his death Rowell never used PS to alter the color of his work, it was done in camera using Velvia and filtration on the lens.

I agree the grad is a bit over done for me. I still use my Galen Rowell Singh Ray grads when needed.

[Vaughn]

Prior to his death Rowell never used PS to alter the color of his work, it was done in camera using Velvia and filtration on the lens.

I agree the grad is a bit over done for me. I still use my Galen Rowell Singh Ray grads when needed.

Except for a few vintage prints with his signature, most of the Galen's work at the gallery is now heavily PS'ed -- including, I believe, the one in the OP. But I have been wrong before!LOL!

[D. Bryant]

Except for a few vintage prints with his signature, most of the Galen's work at the gallery is now heavily PS'ed -- including, I believe, the one in the OP. But I have been wrong before!LOL!

That's why I said prior to his death. I visited his gallery in Bishop just a few days after the fatal plane crash. At that time, all of his work (in the gallery) was printed from 70mm internegs onto Fuji Crystal Archive (or what ever Fuji Crystal was called then.)

I can't say I was major fan of his style but some of the prints did appeal to me, mostly his less ostentatious images. His work was a bit formulaic but to give him credit he did do nice work.

As for now I can't fault prints made electronically but I'm doubtful that the estate had to pump the color based on what I saw at the gallery during the pre-PS days.

[dperez]

You have not responded to the many concerns voiced here, Daniel. Are you too busy answering all the GPS location requests?

That's funny... No, I just don't wish to get intio an argument over it. Thanks.

[Newport Coast]

I located "Sky Rock," near Bishop, CA over the weekend and I would be willing to provide an LF Forum member with the GPS coordinates to the site. Just send me a PM.

I recommend a 4x4 vehicle, and some good shoes. There is a little rock hopping involved. Rock climbing gear might be useful, or a lightweight aluminum ladder 6-8 feet tall might also work fine.

http://www.mountainlight.com/AA-images/aa_1161_480.jpg
Credit - Galen Rowell
Source: The Mountain Light Gallery Page

-DP

Mr D Perez:
Do you still recommend a 4x vehicle?

[lab black]

In my humble and limited opinion, it is and will be a tragedy to share your information with anyone. There are some petrogylphs out of Barstow, accessible only with four-wheel drive that are extremely difficult to find. As you go by the initial carvings, people have taken jack hammers and removed some of them completely from the rock and in other places, there are hearts traced around the sacred figures with initials scratched inside obliteratong the art. As you come to the primary area where the rock art is located, there are fire rings filled with the sad remains of a culture that lacked the proper parenting. I have enjoyed the Eastern Sierra for the a lifetime and watched the changes. This rock that you have located does not need any further photographs which would certainly subject it to uncertain changes. With all due respect, if anyone on this forum wants to make petroglyph images, there are well known areas with appropriate safety fencing put there for good cause, that can be explored, so I implore you to take some time and possible discuss this with a team with far greater widom than I, such as park officials and Indian Council members before proceeding with haste and creating a situation that can not be reversed. I certainly appreciate your consideration of my request.

[Drew Wiley]

Publication equals destruction. I can think of a few noted photographers who have done
more damage to special places simply by publishing locations and/or conducting conspicuous workshops in such locations than generations of would-be teenage vandals.
Anyone who really wants to find a spot can do with with a bit of their own homework.
And why the hell does everyone want to take shots of the same stereotypical image?

[dperez]

Guys & Gals,

It's been almost a year since I made this post about Sky Rock and its coordinates. I acknowledge all of those who have asked me not to share the location. I understand the argument for keeping the location secret, although it isn't really secret at all, and I'm not sure that it ever has been.

I have provided the coordinates to a small handful of established members of this forum, with one exception. I have not posted the coordinates online, nor will I ever. I'm sure that I have been more selective about who I give the coordinates to, than the BLM officials in the Bishop office, as they willingly provide detailed location information for this site to anyone that asks.

I respect those with differing opinions, and I see the logic in many of the arguments that have been made in this thread and others like it.

Sincerely,

-Daniel

[ROL]

Guys & Gals,

It's been almost a year since I made this post about Sky Rock and its coordinates. I acknowledge all of those who have asked me not to share the location. I understand the argument for keeping the location secret, although it isn't really secret at all, and I'm not sure that it ever has been.

I have provided the coordinates to a small handful of established members of this forum, with one exception. I have not posted the coordinates online, nor will I ever. I'm sure that I have been more selective about who I give the coordinates to, than the BLM officials in the Bishop office, as they willingly provide detailed location information for this site to anyone that asks.

I respect those with differing opinions, and I see the logic in many of the arguments that have been made in this thread and others like it.

Sincerely,

-Daniel

Christ, what a load. Daniel: KEEPER OF THE LIGHT. If you wanted to keep the location secret (and it is no secret), then why the cryptic, exclusionary post? Really now...

(I apologize for the tone, but a week in the northern Nevada desert has stripped me temporarily of any pretentious bullsh*t.)

[dperez]

Christ, what a load. Daniel: KEEPER OF THE LIGHT. If you wanted to keep the location secret (and it is no secret), then why the cryptic, exclusionary post? Really now...

(I apologize for the tone, but a week in the northern Nevada desert has stripped me temporarily of any pretentious bullsh*t.)

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're talking about. I never said anything about wanting to keep the location secret, it's been quite the opposite in fact. I also don't understand the Keeper of the Light title.

Let's summarize: I found a location on my own, took note of the GPS coordinates, then offered to provide the coordinates to members of this forum as a courtesy, partially because I don't feel I should keep such locations secret. A number of people suggested that I should keep the coordinates secret. While I respect their opinions, I chose to give the location data anyway to "established members" who have asked for the info. I say "established" because shortly after creating the thread I started getting requests from new members that joined the forum just for the purpose of obtaining the coordinates. I preferred to give the info to members who were really part of the forum.

I didn't start the thread because I felt as though I was the KEEPER OF THE LIGHT. It was offered as a courtesy to other members of a forum I enjoy being a part of and with sometimes like-minded individuals that I periodically associate with. Some appreciated the gesture and took me up on the offer. That is all.

If you would like the info, I'd be glad to provide it to you.

I'm not interested in engaging in any flame wars.

-DP

[lab black]

I understand your point and recognize your altruistic motivations. One problem that surfaces is the concept that all cultivated photographers are principled, which is open to debate, given the now famous photographer, who in his attempt to capture the decisive moment, utilized a few dura flame fire logs to do so. For example, if one is to head further up 395 and go back into the aspens of Lundy lake, unfortunately, attempting to photograph the trees is close to impossible as a majority of them have been significantly defaced. I fear that history may and will repeat itself at Sky Rock.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln

[ssharick]

I am one of those people who Mr. Perez says "joined the forum just for the purpose of obtaining the coordinates"

I came across his post that said that he was willing to give the coordinates to "responsible" photographers like the ones in this forum. I did not see his first post where he was more specific.

Yes I did join this forum because of that post. There is no way to post here without joining and no contact information could be obtained without joining. In order to get in touch with him I had to join. I am not ashamed that I did that.

Of course Mr. Perez was not willing to give the information to me. Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with someone keeping the information to themselves in order to preserve something that may very well be damaged if it becomes too popular. I do have a problem when people say they will give out the information to 'responsible photographers' when they have no way to actually know if the people on the internet they are giving the information to are actually responsible or not. Of course Mr. Perez feels that he possesses this uncanny ability.

I am also taken back by comments such as "Let's summarize: I found a location on my own.......". Unless someone happened to be walking in the area and curiosity drew them to climb of those rocks after which they 'found a location on their own' then they indeed used the help of someone along the way. If this place were only left to those that happened upon it then almost none, if any of us, would even know about it. We all use the help of others when seeking out new sites whether it be specific or general in nature.

Even though I was not able to obtain any specific information I still ventured out to look for the petroglyph. For me this meant a trip of more than six thousand miles and a couple thousand dollars in costs to get near there. I was not successful in finding it but I was closer than I had ever been.

A few weeks later with a little more generic information under my belt I returned to the area again taking thousands of miles to get there and a load of money spent. Try number two was also unsuccessful. Again I knew I was even closer than I was the first time.

I am still not deterred from getting there. With all of the information I got from talking with people, searching the internet, emailing, maps, hikes, and attempts I have now found the rock using Google earth. I have the spot pinpointed and I am confident that it is the right rock based on images and information I have been gathering for the past half-year. I sit here again looking to the internet to book my flight, rent my car, and book hotels planning my trip back there again taking me across thousands of miles of travel and a bunch of money. I will be back there in a few weeks to finally get 'my taste' of Sky Rock.

Does it bother me to spend all this time and money to travel to a faraway place to experience something like Sky Rock and to get some images? Not at all. I have met many people, seen many things I never would have, made images I would otherwise not had the opportunity to make, and had a hell of a good time while doing it.

This I don't mind at all. What I do dislike is pretentious people who feel they did it all on their own when if fact they didn't. Keep the site secret and safe. I have no issues with that. Just try not to play games in the process.

And for those who ask why anyone would want to get an image that has already been done, if not over done - for me it is not all about the image. It is about the experience. I hope to look at Sky Rock with no one else around. I want forst to experience the place, then to photograph it. Anyone can look at any of my images and really love the image. What they can never do is look back at the experience I had in making the image. I know where I was when I made an image, what the weather was like, what it smelled like, what was behind me and to my right and left. This and more can never be conveyed through an image. It is something for me that makes photography worth it. I don't care if an image has been done before or not. That is no reason for me to shy away from increasing my life expereinces.

[Drew Wiley]

Gosh ... why do people always think they have to photograph the same damn cliche spot?
There a quite a few other pictographs in the general area - a lot of them spattered with
bullet holes, but with patience, some undisturbed ones too. I'm glad I did take some shots
of certain ones elsewhere, because they've since been literally bulldozed. Whatever. Just
be careful what you publish, because for every "responsible" photographer there are twenty curiosity seekers who will tell twenty other friends, or will publish coordinates.
Then some brat will be out there with a spray can soon enough.

[David Higgs]

WOW

I'm amazed by all of this, if it's more that ten miles from me, I let someone else photograph it. I'd have thought there would be a huge amount of photography to be done in Hawai?

/Hippy Tree Hugger

[Kirk Gittings]

I once drove from Albuquerque to Yellowstone to take one photograph (the weather looked perfect) and then turned around and drove back home.

I'm amazed at the reactions to this too. It seems to me that what one chooses to photograph is no ones business and he handled this very responsibly.

[David Higgs]

I once drove from Albuquerque to Yellowstone to take one photograph (the weather looked perfect) and then turned around and drove back home.

I'm amazed at the reactions to this too. It seems to me that what one chooses to photograph is no ones business and he handled this very responsibly.

That argument assumes we have no collective responsibility for finite natural resources, and that our actions have no consequences. If we all had that attitude would the world be a better or worse place?
I can admire your pictures Kirk (and do!) and get a feel for the landscape you work in even though I am thousands upon thousands of miles away. That's enough for me. It seems a shame that it's not enough for many others.

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks for the kind words. These are challenging issues. Part of the reason I photograph is it gets me to places I would never experience otherwise. Much of my work is at sites with spiritual or religious interest. I like to experience the feel of these sites and try and evoke that in my images. I may also not make photographs once I get there. Oftentimes its enough to just be there. Aside from photographs I have had some profound personal experiences at some sites, and personally I would not want to deny such experiences to others by denying them locations, but its a potential problem with insensitive people for sure. I don't think there are simple answers.

The photography sometimes is just the excuse to get me there. On the other hand I also always feel challenged to do something photographically at popular sites that is better, unique, individual etc. etc., but unless the potential image has some real feel for the spirit of the place, I probably won't bother. I generally don't take snapshots or "memory" shots. I prefer my memories. I spent allot of my free time for ten years awhile back traveling with a 90 year old Pawnee medicine man. In that time I never photographed him or a single site or ceremony we visited. It wasn't that I was keeping his secrets-he never once asked me to not reveal sites or ceremonies-it was that the experiences were simply enough-photography would have gotten in the way. He is gone now and sometimes I feel I did an injustice by not recording his spiritual practice and ways-but that was not important to him either-we were just friends traveling to his old haunts while he still could and his spiritual life was just his life. He had latched on to me at a friends house when he found out that I had some Sac and Fox indian ancestors-his dead wife was Sac and Fox and he wanted me to hear some S&F songs he had learned from her. That led to a great friendship and he taught me a lot about life and spirituality-a very interesting time for me.

[Drew Wiley]

That's interesting, Kirk. I have personally never photographed an Indian, even though I once lived among them. Photography was one thing - and I have shot a lot of antiquity
subjects - friendship a completely different topic. I can also relate to long trips, often on
foot, and coming back with only one or two shots, or sometimes none, even when the
scenery per se was spectacular. Some things I just want to witness and not be hung up in
making use of. And yes, what people choose to photograph is their own business, but what
potentially happens to public lands is inherently everyone's business - that is, if they care.

[Greg Miller]

I spent allot of my free time for ten years awhile back traveling with a 90 year old Pawnee medicine man.

That could make for an interesting book. I would read it.

[Leszek Vogt]

Wow, just a little perseverance and one can find this place. I've seen defacing done by many good-meaning people....look at what happened to Mesa Verde....the fingerprints and human 'touch' is all over this irreplaceable treasure (just one example). No wonder the one near Santa Barbara...they had to install metal-bar-fence to keep vandals out. My friend was in a petroglyph kick back in the 80's and we found some rare spots that only anthropologists and geologists were privy to....and the one we found was rather tiny, but still in excellent condition and v. difficult to get to physically. But, I wouldn't doubt if that some other folk have made similar discovery by now. I'm hesitant to even mention the area.

Les

[Heroique]

No way to share Sky Rock Petroglyph w/o significant costs.

No way to keep its location from others w/o significant costs.

What’s your goal, and what required cost are you paying?

[tgtaylor]

The BLM knows the location and will even give you a map of the general location. But they will not tell you the exact location. Hint: You'll discover it from above and, if you a short and alone, you will need a ladder to access it after spotting it from above.

In addition to vandalism, "professional photographers" photographing petrogliphs have used chalk to delinate the faint figures carved into the rock. Chalk is a corrosive and will destroy the image. To counter this photographer John Wimberly, a member of this forum, developed a developer specifically for his work on petroglyphs.

In addition to doing your research on finding the location, research the technique of how to capture the image without relying on the use of chalk or any substance that is damaging to it, to bring it out.

Thomas

[richardman]

Ha ha, I joined this forum to see if I can find a Nikkor 300m F9 M, but I guess I better not ask for the location since this is only my first post!! :-)

I was fortunate that one of our friends was a docent of the petroglyph "museum" in China Basin so he gave us a private tour without tourists. It was over 12 years ago and I didn't have any good cameras at that time. Unfortunately, he has since passed away so the best I can do would be to go on the tour.

China Basin also has some really fantastic Joshua Trees, even better than the ones in the JT National Park. We couldn't stop as it is inside the military base, but we did drive very slowly at spots so we could take on the view.

It is sad that some people have no regard for other people. I remember I got so mad on top of Morro Bay when a couple teenagers were carving their names on the tree.

[Kodachrome25]

This thread is kind of depressing really. I know of places like this and feel no need to share it to any "community" just to feel some warm and fuzzy Internet validation. In 2002 I found an old silver mine prospect up in a cliff band devoid of snow due to a drought year. When I went inside, I found an almost Hollywood looking scene of picks, hammers, shovels, log books and other things that were covered in a mold that pretty much meant they were discarded around the time they were put there, 1886.

I light painted the scene and the photo ran in a well known magazine with a yellow border. Even when the editor asked me where it was, I would not tell him. I am to this day the only one who knows where this undisturbed scene is.

I have no desire to share cherished places other than in photographs and generally you have to buy them to see them....and I still wont tell you where they are.
By sharing this place with anyone, you have increased the chances of someone down the line getting the info and don't the wrong thing...

And for what, so you can claim a warm and fuzzy of helping out some amateur camera owners on the Internet?

Damn it!!!!

[Vaughn]

I will more than glad to take anyone (well, just about anyone) to see my favorite redwoods. And if someone tries to deface one of them, their body might make excellent fertilizer for the tree.

Not really, but I would think about it...

[Kirk Gittings]

And for what, so you can claim a warm and fuzzy of helping out some amateur camera owners on the Internet?

As opposed to that smug little self aggrandizing feeling of "I know something you don't"?

Making stupid simplistic assumptions about people's motivations works both ways.........

[Heroique]

...By sharing this place with anyone, you have increased the chances of someone down the line getting the info and don't the wrong thing...

And for what, so you can claim a warm and fuzzy of helping out some amateur camera owners on the Internet?

Damn it!!!!

And if your presence damages the scene w/o your knowing it, telling people the location may allow trained archaelogists to get there before you go back.

I sympathize w/ your basic idea, but it’s complicated...

[C4D]

I'm now a bit more of "keep it secret" side of the coin ever since the Fantasy Canyon incident a few years back.

[tgtaylor]

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/7/5/8/highres_9202360.jpeg

[richardman]

I'm now a bit more of "keep it secret" side of the coin ever since the Fantasy Canyon incident a few years back.


Can you give a quick summary what happened?

[Vaughn]

Google: Fantasy Canyon Teapot

The only thing known for sure was that there a man of very short stature yelling something about a plane...

or to save you the work:

http://www.kapplemultimedia.com/fantasy/bin/fantasy_canyon_destroyed.htm

[C4D]

Yeah the teacup at Fantasy Canyon is the one that got away for me.
I spent a couple years trying to pinpoint it's exact location and finally found the location and even had a trip planned for the perfect time to photograph the formation and then a couple months later it was reported damaged and gone forever so I settled for the "Little Finland" rock formations instead in Nevada for that trip.

[Paul Porter]

In light of a recent petroglyph theft and destruction events in the Volcanic Tablelands north of Bishop, I would like to ask that anyone with knowledge of the location of Sky Rock to please refrain from sharing with others you cannot trust implicitly to keep it to themselves. Better yet, don't share it all. Please read this article in the LA Times - www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-petroglyphs-theft-20121119,0,6886011.story. I think the photography community has a responsibility to pull together to do what we can to protect these valuable historical resources. Will you join me? I'm appealing to everyone I know with pictures or knowledge of potentially vulnerable locations to edit out anything possibly revealing about that site's location; anything in the title, text, tags and or mapped locations. Would you be willing to edit any of that location revealing information you have on your postings. And while I know it may a lot to ask, would you be willing to either pull those photos or at least make them invisible in some way? I appreciate many photographers have strong feelings about issues such as these, but your consideration is greatly appreciated.

Please consider the following when the question arrises about sharing locations: www.gdanmitchell.com/2012/11/19/petroglyphs-stolen-a-lesson-for-photographers

I've already removed images from both Google+ and Flickr, because even though it didn't directly reveal the location, smart and resourceful people could perform an approximate triangulation of the location from my composition. Hopefully, BLM will be able to place reasonable protective measures in place soon.

Many thanks!

[Drew Wiley]

Another real problem for delicate formation and things like natural bridges comes from climbers and their own set of websites. It's getting pretty popular to scramble up and rappel off such things. I was infuriated just this past weekend when I walked up to one of
the most remarkable sets of natural rock colors in the immediate area, just to find some
brat had recently blasted spray paint over it. I'd hate to think that the last picture we've
got of that "teacup" formation is the faked-over one Fatali published of it, with a crescent
moon sandwiched in the sky from a completely different chrome (he's used the same moon
shot on several different composite images).

[richardman]

Sigh, I would contribute to a "bounty fund" to find the guilty parties. Thankfully, it wasn't Sky Rock.

http://framework.latimes.com/2012/11/20/ancient-petroglyph-stolen-near-bishop/

Those other petroglyth are much more out in the open.

[C. D. Keth]

Sigh, I would contribute to a "bounty fund" to find the guilty parties. Thankfully, it wasn't Sky Rock.

http://framework.latimes.com/2012/11/20/ancient-petroglyph-stolen-near-bishop/

Those other petroglyth are much more out in the open.

I was just coming to this thread to add a different article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20404856) about the same incident. Disgusting behavior. Im going to be even more tight lipped about sky rock after that.

[Newport Coast]

I was just coming to this thread to add a different article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20404856) about the same incident. Disgusting behavior. Im going to be even more tight lipped about sky rock after that.

You are going to be "tight"
ha ha ha!
they don't give a fuck!
they already destroyed Fantasy Canyon
and they stole shit from 3500 years ago!
It doesn't matter what the fuck you think or you do!

You and all the assholes can't watch 24/7 this place!
they already know the locations!
Idiots!!!

[Newport Coast]

As opposed to that smug little self aggrandizing feeling of "I know something you don't"?

Making stupid simplistic assumptions about people's motivations works both ways.........

I agree with you sir!
A fool always finds a greater fool who admires him
ha ha ha!

[Newport Coast]

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/7/5/8/highres_9202360.jpeg

Ha ha ha!
who gives a fuck?

[Sideshow Bob]

So why all the bad language? ....Don't you have to be at least 18 before you can be a member of this group?

Mr.Gale

[Preston]

so why all the bad language? ....don't you have to be at least 18 before you can be a member of this group?

Mr.gale

+1

--p

[Drew Wiley]

Apparently someone has never been blasted with rock salt yet. There are two things the
West still needs ... irritable bulls and cantankerous ranchers.

[C. D. Keth]

Then California would probably ban rock salt.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh there are plenty of places in Calif where you can still find rock salt coming your way at
high velocity. But if you're from LA you might need a passport to cross over the Grapevine
into California. I once tried selling LA on EBay to the Mexican Mafia, but they said they
owned it anyway, but didn't even want it themselves. If you simply annexed Bakersfield you could have all the rock salt you need just by picking it off the ground between blobs
of oil. My grandfather had a plot like that in Long Beach. He couldn't afford the property
taxes while he was dying of TB, and the land was worthless for growing anything anyway,
so he forfeited 22 acres of it. Three years after he died, oil was discovered on it and it became the Signal Hill US Naval oil reserves!

[dsphotog]

The thieves should have their hands cut off....
...slowly...
...with their own angle grinders.

[Joseph Dickerson]

You are going to be "tight"
ha ha ha!
they don't give a fuck!
they already destroyed Fantasy Canyon
and they stole shit from 3500 years ago!
It doesn't matter what the fuck you think or you do!

You and all the assholes can't watch 24/7 this place!
they already know the locations!
Idiots!!!

Please come back when you grow up. Shouldn't be too long I suppose. :rolleyes:

JD

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah ... should have added one more ingredient to rock salt ... soap for washing out little
kid's mouths ... another rural custom.

[tgtaylor]

The vandalized site featured in the LA Times link is a 'drive-up" site clearly marked on BLM maps handed out to visitors. Which proves the point that the more that know the location of something valuable, the more likely it is that one of those will destroy, or in this case, steal it.

Thomas

[Bill Burk]

I was initially put-off by the strong language. But this kind of damage is inconceivable and strong language is warranted.

I wish the culprits are found and made to pay restitution for their crime, the pieces are found and cemented back in place with care.

[Kodachrome25]

I am fairly certain the world was a better place without the garbage heap called the internet. Sorry you took offense to it Kirk, it just really ticked me off...


As opposed to that smug little self aggrandizing feeling of "I know something you don't"?

Making stupid simplistic assumptions about people's motivations works both ways.........

[maike]

My two cents.

I've attempted to find them twice, and gotten closer each time. I looked around at images after this last time.

Do you know what I saw in these photos? I saw several instance of people walking on top of the pictographs, stepping on them!

Some of those people would like to consider them selves photographers. Like the saying goes, "there are no bad christians."

[JMSpyV]

I saw several instance of people walking on top of the pictographs (PETROGLYPHS), stepping on them!


I have to report seeing the samething.
After researching its location, I had a pretty good idea where it was located. But it was the number of people standing on top of it that nailed it.
At least 15 people had congregated around it. Some where photographers, others where hikers. A truck load of people drove up. They proceeded with the beers and wine glasses filled with chardoney, and danced around, hooping it up. Little dog running around on top of it. People laying on top of it for poses.

I asked one gentleman to stop walking on the glyphs because of the potential for damage. He blew me off, saying how could he damaga it since it was made of rock. I don't know how many 60 year old men you have taken a swing at, but I was tempted. What made it worse was that he held a P.h.D in Psychology.

I visited maybe 20 other rock art sites in my time I was there, and they are all in danger of vandalism due to the proximity of roads, campsites and other activities. Some had already been damaged by spray paint and bullet holes, others had pieces broken out of them or cut.
Rocks are not as durable as you might think....and a more important aspect, these places are considered sacred and irreplaceable to Native Americans. Imagine if people picniced and partied on your Grandmothers grave.

Never advertise and keep the above in mind if you share. It seems the harder it is to find...the more appreciated and respectful people are when they do.

[C. D. Keth]

You should have taken lots of photos of them doing it, including faces, and publicized them.

[Steve Slinger]

I am one of those people who Mr. Perez says "joined the forum just for the purpose of obtaining the coordinates"

I came across his post that said that he was willing to give the coordinates to "responsible" photographers like the ones in this forum. I did not see his first post where he was more specific.

Yes I did join this forum because of that post. There is no way to post here without joining and no contact information could be obtained without joining. In order to get in touch with him I had to join. I am not ashamed that I did that.

Of course Mr. Perez was not willing to give the information to me. Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with someone keeping the information to themselves in order to preserve something that may very well be damaged if it becomes too popular. I do have a problem when people say they will give out the information to 'responsible photographers' when they have no way to actually know if the people on the internet they are giving the information to are actually responsible or not. Of course Mr. Perez feels that he possesses this uncanny ability.

I am also taken back by comments such as "Let's summarize: I found a location on my own.......". Unless someone happened to be walking in the area and curiosity drew them to climb of those rocks after which they 'found a location on their own' then they indeed used the help of someone along the way. If this place were only left to those that happened upon it then almost none, if any of us, would even know about it. We all use the help of others when seeking out new sites whether it be specific or general in nature.

Even though I was not able to obtain any specific information I still ventured out to look for the petroglyph. For me this meant a trip of more than six thousand miles and a couple thousand dollars in costs to get near there. I was not successful in finding it but I was closer than I had ever been.

A few weeks later with a little more generic information under my belt I returned to the area again taking thousands of miles to get there and a load of money spent. Try number two was also unsuccessful. Again I knew I was even closer than I was the first time.

I am still not deterred from getting there. With all of the information I got from talking with people, searching the internet, emailing, maps, hikes, and attempts I have now found the rock using Google earth. I have the spot pinpointed and I am confident that it is the right rock based on images and information I have been gathering for the past half-year. I sit here again looking to the internet to book my flight, rent my car, and book hotels planning my trip back there again taking me across thousands of miles of travel and a bunch of money. I will be back there in a few weeks to finally get 'my taste' of Sky Rock.

Does it bother me to spend all this time and money to travel to a faraway place to experience something like Sky Rock and to get some images? Not at all. I have met many people, seen many things I never would have, made images I would otherwise not had the opportunity to make, and had a hell of a good time while doing it.

This I don't mind at all. What I do dislike is pretentious people who feel they did it all on their own when if fact they didn't. Keep the site secret and safe. I have no issues with that. Just try not to play games in the process.

And for those who ask why anyone would want to get an image that has already been done, if not over done - for me it is not all about the image. It is about the experience. I hope to look at Sky Rock with no one else around. I want forst to experience the place, then to photograph it. Anyone can look at any of my images and really love the image. What they can never do is look back at the experience I had in making the image. I know where I was when I made an image, what the weather was like, what it smelled like, what was behind me and to my right and left. This and more can never be conveyed through an image. It is something for me that makes photography worth it. I don't care if an image has been done before or not. That is no reason for me to shy away from increasing my life expereinces.

[Steve Slinger]

Good post. I'm heading up to Bishop the end of this month hoping to find Sky Rock; if I can locate it, I'll give you the directions.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Wasn't there some vandalism/theft there recently? Should be better protected. Perhaps surveillance cameras?

[Brian C. Miller]

Unfortunately, surveillance cameras aren't free, they need power and communications, and then there is the problem of hunting down the a$$h0l3z.

Now, would it be defacement of public land to create fake petroglyph rocks? If there were decoy rocks, then the risk to the real rocks would be drastically lowered.

[Jmarmck]

Been there...............many year ago......................without a camera I might add.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Unfortunately, surveillance cameras aren't free, they need power and communications, and then there is the problem of hunting down the a$$h0l3z.

Solar powered.
If this is a sacred site, why aren't there natives around keeping an eye on it?

[Drew Wiley]

If there were cameras they'd just shoot em out, just like they do to "no shooting" signs. But it would help if there were a few real felony penalties for vandalism on
BLM land under the antiquities act that garnered serious attention. It should hurt. I just ran into one of my favorite mini-cave areas which had long been pristine, but now the taggers have finally gotten to it. When our urban areas themselves simply cave in, and with a sigh start calling this stuff "street art", where does it stop?
Wonder whatever happened to that jerk who toppled the rock at Bisti, or wherever that specifically was. "Sacred sites" basically mean little or nothing to anyone
but New Age types, who often flagrantly leave their own version of vandalism at such places.

[Brian C. Miller]

Wonder whatever happened to that jerk who toppled the rock at Bisti, or wherever that specifically was.

A plea deal for one year of probation, $925 for court costs, $1500 for the investigation, and signs warning to not vandalize the rocks.

[Drew Wiley]

Thanks. But that's a pretty small slap on the wrist, figuring it will probably cost tens of thousands to lift that thing by net and helicopter and repair the damage.
In that case, the public shame was probably more effective. There is some absolutely exquisite lichen on beautiful rock in the park up the street from my house.
Some tagger finally got to it. But they have a serious budget and some excellent scientific consultants in that particular park system, and remarkably found something which solvented off the paint without killing or abrading the lichen. I was amazed. Most agencies would have just pressure washed it and ruined even
more. Another happy sign is in the renovations being budgeted my the military. They have all the lovely old architecture seriously fenced off and patrolled while
renovation and hazmat cleanup is going on, so a lot of the old historic buildings are going to be in wonderful shape once they reopen to the public; but what happens that is another question. The brats move fast.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes, of course they'd be shot at. I should have known after seeing many road signs at Death Valley with bullet holes in them.
In regards to that puke who toppled over that rock, he may have gotten a slap on the wrist but people will never forget. It will come back to haunt him more than once throughout his life. "oh, you were that little shite, eh? No way am I gonna hire you! Piss off!"

[Kirk Gittings]

Solar powered.
If this is a sacred site, why aren't there natives around keeping an eye on it?

New Mexico is full of such sites on "government land". So the government takes the land but the natives then have to protect it?

[Drew Wiley]

I've encountered all kinds of formerly incredible rock art that was itself shot to pieces, probably beginning in the late 1800's. Stupidity certainly wasn't patented
recently.

[Racer X 69]

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/7/5/8/highres_9202360.jpeg

Well then!

[Racer X 69]

You are going to be "tight"
ha ha ha!
they don't give a fuck!
they already destroyed Fantasy Canyon
and they stole shit from 3500 years ago!
It doesn't matter what the fuck you think or you do!

You and all the assholes can't watch 24/7 this place!
they already know the locations!
Idiots!!!

Vulgarity is the linguistic too of the inarticulate.


So why all the bad language? ....Don't you have to be at least 18 before you can be a member of this group?

Mr.Gale

Some people are frozen at an age that prevents them from expressing their ideas in a manner more acceptable in certain social circles.

[Steve Slinger]

Found Sky Rock last week and took a snap. 115095

[Jmarmck]

Shame on you! Haven't you ever heard of triangulation? :p


BTW, very nice shot.

[Kirk Gittings]

Hmmm that sky looks added after the fact? Is that a Large Format image?

[djdister]

Found Sky Rock last week and took a snap. 115095

Metadata says it was taken with a Nikon D700, not LF...

[Steve Slinger]

Made me laugh . . . thanks, Marty. Like your website.

[Jmarmck]

Thanks Steve! :cool:

[tgtaylor]

Well then!

Haha! That snap was taken in New Idria - California's latest ghost town - a couple of days after gaining extensive news coverage. The "Keep Out" sign was posted by New Idria's last resident and official Mayor "Me", well that's what we called her. I first discovered the location about 15 years earlier while hiking, camping, and exploring in the general area. At that time it was occupied by a county drug Rehab outfit that was supposed to clean-up the site. The drug rehab people cleared out and extensive news coverage followed when New Idria was declared an EPA Super Fund site. Hanta Virus was supposed to to infest all the structures and warnings were posted throughout. The whole area was supposedly cordoned-off by the San Benito County Sheriff's Department and anyone caught entering would be ticketed/arrested. I couldn't resist the urge to see it again and about 10 of us (photographers) did a field trip. Great shoot! We entered all the buildings wearing surgical masks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Idria,_California

[ROL]

I love night photography! :rolleyes:



Metadata says it was taken with a Nikon D700, not LF...
How did you get the metadata off of that?

[djdister]

How did you get the metadata off of that?

Simple. I did a "save as" of the image file and then opened it in a photo editor, which showed that it was taken with a Nikon D700 on 4/30/2014, 9:14:28 AM (date and time could be inaccurate on the camera), using a 17mm focal length, f/3.5, for 1 second exposure.

[Brian C. Miller]

How did you get the metadata off of that?

Using Firefox, open the menu in the top-left, and click Add-Ons.
The Add-ons Manager tab will open, and then enter "exif" or "metadata" into the search box. I loaded up Exif Viewer 2.0.
Then open the image for viewing, and right-click on it, then select "View Link EXIF Data" from the context menu.

You'll see a huge helping of data there!

[Drew Wiley]

Methinks the sky is jet contrails

[Sideshow Bob]

Haha! That snap was taken in New Idria - California's latest ghost town - a couple of days after gaining extensive news coverage. The "Keep Out" sign was posted by New Idria's last resident and official Mayor "Me", well that's what we called her. I first discovered the location about 15 years earlier while hiking, camping, and exploring in the general area. At that time it was occupied by a county drug Rehab outfit that was supposed to clean-up the site. The drug rehab people cleared out and extensive news coverage followed when New Idria was declared an EPA Super Fund site. Hanta Virus was supposed to to infest all the structures and warnings were posted throughout. The whole area was supposedly cordoned-off by the San Benito County Sheriff's Department and anyone caught entering would be ticketed/arrested. I couldn't resist the urge to see it again and about 10 of us (photographers) did a field trip. Great shoot! We entered all the buildings wearing surgical masks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Idria,_California

I rode dirt bikes for years in the Clear Creek area adjacent to New Idria. They closed the area a few years back because of the Asbestos levels, maybe that's why I lost my hair?

Mr.Gale

[Drew Wiley]

All California serpentine has low levels of asbestos. But old mines in general aren't particularly safe places for any number of reasons. I'm surprised I survived my own
teenage misadventures exploring old gold mine shafts. The modern mantra, however, is, when in doubt, scare people away for reasons of hypothetical liability risk.

[Steve Slinger]

That's the sky that was there . . . not large format, D700. The 4x5 never got out of the car . . . fifty years ago I wouldn't hesitate to lug the LF stuff up that cliff, but not today.

[Steve Slinger]

Methinks the sky is jet contrails

You're right, Drew.

[ROL]

The 4x5 never got out of the car . . . fifty years ago I wouldn't hesitate to lug the LF stuff up that cliff, but not today.

So, your'e just here today to thumb your nose at us? Quite an asset to the community.

[ROL]

Simple. I did a "save as" of the image file and then opened it in a photo editor, which showed that it was taken with a Nikon D700 on 4/30/2014, 9:14:28 AM (date and time could be inaccurate on the camera), using a 17mm focal length, f/3.5, for 1 second exposure.

Seemple for you, deeficult for me. No EXIF info is shown in either Aperture or Pixelmator that I can find.

[ROL]

Using Firefox, open the menu in the top-left, and click Add-Ons.
The Add-ons Manager tab will open, and then enter "exif" or "metadata" into the search box. I loaded up Exif Viewer 2.0.
Then open the image for viewing, and right-click on it, then select "View Link EXIF Data" from the context menu.

You'll see a huge helping of data there!


Thanks. I had been in Safari on the Mac. I did just that in Firefox and downloaded EXIF Viewer. But no EXIF info was present. It was an academic exercise anyway.

[tgtaylor]

I rode dirt bikes for years in the Clear Creek area adjacent to New Idria. They closed the area a few years back because of the Asbestos levels, maybe that's why I lost my hair?

Yes, I think you’re right. But I don’t think that they actually “closed” it with barricades and all just closed it officially on the map. One could do a loop through New Idria and back out through Clear Creek but I never went any further than up the hill a mile or so on the back-side of New Idria. The maps call for high clearance 4-wheel which was beyond the capabilities of my little Nissan and Toyota’s.

New Idria was a hand-out for motorcycle gangs – I believe the Mongrols used it.
Thomas

[Drew Wiley]

Last time I went past there, the road was literally washed out. That was obviously awhile back.