Question for headless photographers

[r.e.]

I know that some people here attach their camera directly to a tripod, either to a plate on top of the legs that is flat or to a plate, from the film/video world, that provides about 15 degrees of leveling function. As I understand it, at least one person - Christopher Broadbent - uses a Novoflex Panorama Plate on top of a leveling plate to get a panning function.

I happen to use the Arca-Swiss system for 8x10 and 4x5. A few weeks ago, I decided to attach a 50cm rail that telescopes to 75cm, and front and rear function carriers that fit both the 8x10 and 4x5 standards, directly to the flat plate of my tripod (a carbon fiber tripod made by Gitzo, model 1325, that supports 26.5 lbs). The effect of this is that the tripod, rail and function carriers are now one piece, and when I set up for a shot, I use a level to level them as one piece. Then I slide either the 8x10 or 4x5 standards/bellows on to the carriers depending on which format I want to use.

I have come to the following conclusions:

1. The cameras feel much more stable and I have gotten rid of a few pounds - I am not inclined to go back to a traditional pan and tilt head;
2. I need to be able to level the tripod and camera, either by shortening/lengthening the legs in conjunction with a level, or with a leveling base;
3. I need to be able to pan the camera after the 8x10 or 4x5 standards/bellows have been mounted (panning using the tripod legs at that point is problematic, and the Novoflex looks attractive);
4. I do not, for the photography that I do, need to tilt the camera forwards or backwards.

On the few occasions that this subject has come up on this forum in the past, there has been a tendency for people to say that they can't imagine anyone taking photographs without the tilt function of a pan and tilt head. On that issue, and for the purpose of this thread, please see #4 above.

I would appreciate comments from people who are not using tripod heads on how they are dealing with leveling and panning, including any gear recommendations they may want to make. I'd also appreciate a recommendation for a good level (e.g. Starrett 98 6", something else?). In a thread a couple of years ago, Drew Wiley talked about a "self-leveling angle finder". A Google search has left me none the wiser about what this is. So, what is it?

Thanks.

[John Kasaian]

When sking, I'll leave the head behind. Snow is generally very forgiving.

[Colin Graham]

I tried going 'headless' a few times to save weight, but leveling with the legs on uneven terrain was a little fussy with the way my tripod works- I just can't see the level while I'm adjusting the locks. So I look forward to hearing about other methods/gear for working without a tripod head.

That novoflex panning base looks as nice as anything I've seen and I've been casually looking for one for a few years.. It's seems a little small and might be difficult to use directly under the bed of a field camera, but looks like it might be just right for a monorail or tripod block.

As for Drew's angle finder, try searching with the terms inclinometer or angle locator. I tried a cheap one just to compare the facility of it to a torpedo level, but preferred working with the level. I have the Klein Tools version of the 6" magnetic electrician's level and it is decent- the castings are good and the vials are sensitive. I tried using the smallest Stabila torpedo level I could find for a while as well, but like the Klein better.

Of course, Starrett levels are the gold standard in machinist's levels, but I wonder how practical they would be in the feild. I've never handled one, but the castings make those look very heavy, and I like having a 90 degree vial as well.

[r.e.]

Colin, thanks for the reference to Klein's 6" level. Turns out there's a brief YouTube video about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJOiWgDvY2I

[John Koehrer]

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=manfrotto+leveling+base&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10034787057640846962&sa=X&ei=Qv6ZTuKWIfSDsAK1oJG2BA&ved=0CDsQ8wIwAA

Manfrotto leveling base +/- 5 degrees weighs just over a pound and looks to have a very solid manner of adjustment.

[Ed Richards]

There is a cheaper version that will also let you rotate the camera when it is loosened for adjustment:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=manfrotto+leveling+base&cid=8318739336665189343&ei=bgmaTqvxNZ34MZ6sqJ0I&ved=0CBMQrhI

[Steve Barber]

I use a leveling base made by Feisol for their CT-3371 tripod. It works well and gets rid of a lot of weight while using a Wisner 8x10 for landscapes when a geared head is not needed.

[jp]

procedure for item 2:
I do 8x10 without a head. I aim the camera roughly first, then level it. If you have the front axis over one tripod leg, you can use that front leg to go up/down, then only deal with 2 legs for leveling in the other axis.
3. I pan by loosening my 5/8-1/4 adaptor, adjusting the camera, and tightening it back up.

[jeroldharter]

I use a leveling base made by Feisol for their CT-3371 tripod. It works well and gets rid of a lot of weight while using a Wisner 8x10 for landscapes when a geared head is not needed.

I've been curious about that, especially for travel.

How does it operate? Does the "handle" on the bottom rotate to screw the camera tightly to the base, or does it loosen/tighten the leveling mechanism? Is it rock solid for 8x10?

Also, how do you attach the camera? Must you spin the camera around the screw or does the handle rotate the screw so that the camera remains stationary?

[r.e.]

If you have the front axis over one tripod leg, you can use that front leg to go up/down, then only deal with 2 legs for leveling in the other axis.
Yes, and it doesn't take much time.


I pan by loosening my 5/8-1/4 adaptor, adjusting the camera, and tightening it back up.

Could you expand on this? What 5/8-1/4 adaptor are you using? Is it just a bushing or something more complex? Are you essentially using it in lieu of a quick release plate? Sorry, having trouble understanding/visualizing this, but want to understand.

[Steve Barber]

I've been curious about that, especially for travel.

How does it operate? Does the "handle" on the bottom rotate to screw the camera tightly to the base, or does it loosen/tighten the leveling mechanism? Is it rock solid for 8x10?

Also, how do you attach the camera? Must you spin the camera around the screw or does the handle rotate the screw so that the camera remains stationary?


This is, actually, four separate pieces. The leveling base with a 3/8th tripod screw at the top, which has a rounded bottom that sets into a bowl shaped insert that is bolted into the center of the tripod frame that the tripod legs are attached to. Three hex head bolts securely attach the insert into the center of the tripod frame. You can see the hole for one bolt on the left side of the insert. The next bit is the small locking collar between the bottom of the insert and the handle. The collar slips over a large bolt, about 15mm in diameter that extends from the top of the handle, thru the collar and the insert and threads into the center of the rounded bottom of the base.

When assembled, everything remains aligned along the centerline of the handle and the 3/8ths diameter bolt threaded into the camera base except for the leveling base, itself. You turn the handle to loosen the assembly and this allows everything to swivel, universally, at an angle of up to about 20 degrees relative to the leveling base. Tightening the handle, which is nice and large, with large, deep grooves making it possible to get a good grip, allows you to clamp everything in position at whatever angle you want within the 20 degree arc that it is capable of.

In use, it is not practical to thread the camera onto the base. It is much easier to unscrew the handle and remove everything from the tripod insert. You thread the 3/8ths mounting bolt into the camera base and tighten the leveling base to the camera. With the leveling base securely tightened onto the camera base, you set the base into the tripod insert and then, from beneath, thread the handle with the locking collar back up, into the leveling base and tighten to hold everything in position. It sounds more complicated than it is.

For carrying everything, keep the base attached to the camera with the insert bolted into the tripod. That leaves only the handle and locking collar loose to keep track of. The handle and collar go into your pocket. This allows you, for short distances, to balance the load with the camera in one hand and the tripod and a bag of film holders and stuff in the other.

Setting up, using the camera levels, is no more difficult than using a ball head, it just does not provide as much leeway in positioning the camera and it does not allow panning the camera with everything else held constant. If you must pan the camera, without allowing any other movement, Feisol makes a panning base that looks like it could be placed between the leveling base and the camera to make that possible.

The leveling base with the Feisol CT-3371 tripod makes a very rigid, but light-weight means of providing adequate control and support for my 8x10 camera. I won’t say that it is as stable as a Linhof Profi III tripod and head, nor does it provide that kind of control, however, the Feisol set-up weighs less than 7 pounds where the Linhof tripod and head weigh, together, about 22 pounds. Setting the camera up with a 24 inch Artar focused at infinity and attaching a laser alignment tool, I don’t see much more deflection using the Feisol than I do with the Linhof. No, the Feisol is not the equal of the Linhof for stability and control, but it is more than adequate for what I am using it for.

[jeroldharter]

Steve, Excellent. Thanks for the detailed explanation. That is just what I was hoping for.

[r.e.]

Steve, thanks very much for that.

It looks like several tripod manufacturers - Feisol, Gitzo, Manfrotto, Really Right Stuff, etc. - are making these. If I understand correctly, it amounts to replacing the flat plate on the top of the tripod with a socket in the shape of a bowl, into which one inserts a half sphere that can be moved around to make a level (or indeed up to 20 degree tilted) surface. It seems inspired by the standard setup for video tripods, which have a bowl at the top of the tripod legs, 75mm, 100mm or 150mm in diameter, into which a video fluid head is inserted and leveled.

That takes care of leveling. By screwing a Novoflex Panorama Plate to the half sphere's flat top, one could add panning. This would make for a very low profile setup.

I think that I'll drop by one or two camera shops tomorrow to see how this would work in practice. B&H is closed until next Sunday, but Foto Care, K&M or Abel Cine might have the parts to check this out.

[jp]

Yes, and it doesn't take much time.



Could you expand on this? What 5/8-1/4 adaptor are you using? Is it just a bushing or something more complex? Are you essentially using it in lieu of a quick release plate? Sorry, having trouble understanding/visualizing this, but want to understand.

http://www.amazon.com/Pacific-Laser-Systems-PLS-20351-Threaded/dp/B00006393Y

is what I use with a surveying tripod for my 8x10.

[domaz]

When sking, I'll leave the head behind. Snow is generally very forgiving.

Maybe it's the infamous Cascade Concrete snow here in the Northwest but I find snow generally annoying. One leg will go really deep and another won't go anywhere so it feels like my tripod legs will almost break apart at the base since one leg ends up with all the weight. Are you using snow baskets on your legs or something?

[Drew Wiley]

I've been doing it "headless" for decades, at least with view cameras, on just about
every kind of terrain imaginable. Once you get used to it, it isn't going to slow you down. You not only save weight, but the camera is going to be a lot more stable,
expecially at long extensions. You need a bit of a platform to the top of the tripod,
however. Not all tripods are ideally designed for this. Ries wooden ones are excellent,
but I have also modifed carbon fiber ones. This is simply the traditional "European"
or survey-style of attachment, with a captured 3/8-16 wing stud running through the
platform. Just look at a Ries to get the idea.

[Sevo]

There is a cheaper version that will also let you rotate the camera when it is loosened for adjustment: (link to Manfrotto 438)


I've been using the 138 (a earlier Manfrotto leveller) since some 25 years. For many large format purposes levelling functionality is all that is needed, and dedicated levellers are much less vibration prone than any similarly light three way or ball head.

[Drew Wiley]

All you need is a flat top. No need for a bowl or anything else. The more surface area
the better.

[r.e.]

All you need is a flat top. No need for a bowl or anything else. The more surface area
the better.

Do you have something between the camera and the crown to make it easier to attach/remove the camera from the tripod or do you screw/unscrew the camera directly on the crown?

[Drew Wiley]

With an 8x10 folder, I just use the 3/8-16 stud. The Ries concept is very nice - it's
spring loaded with a nice turnkob at the bottom. But with my much lighter 4x5 Ebony
I use a quick-release plate on a Gitzo carbon fiber tripod, that is, for distance
backpacking where weight reduction is important. Just don't use a small version of plate. Again, the more surface area the better. With the Sinar monorail system I have
either used their own rail clamp directly on the tripod, or at times have removed even
this and made something even lower center-of-gravity, and longer, especially for long
bellows extensions.

[r.e.]

Drew, thanks very much for your comments. As a result of your earlier post, I had a look at a Reis today and I see what you mean about how the crown is designed.

[r.e.]

At the risk of derailing this discussion, I did indeed visit several NY camera shops today, as I said last night I was going to do, in an effort to check out tripod components. What I learned is how important B&H is (closed until next Sunday) and that everybody else is carrying minimal inventory.

I went to Calumet, Foto Care and K&M and they all had limited Gitzo/Manfrotto tripod components. None of them had a Novoflex Panorama Base. The constant refrain was "We can order it". Having forgotten to pack my Toyo loupe and Linos lens wrench before coming to NY, I was also looking for a loupe and wrench. For these, I also dropped by Lens and Repro and, on the chance that they might have a loupe, Kurland Photo. Here's the bottom line. Nobody had a Linos wrench, and K&M was the only store that had a loupe of any kind - namely, a $9 Gepe 8x.

Perhaps a little incongruously, Foto Care, which is my favourite NY photo store, is where I had a look at a Reis tripod crown as a result of reading Drew Wiley's earlier post. They had a Reis, but neither a lens wrench nor any kind of loupe.

[jeroldharter]

A sorry state of affairs. Even B&H is not so good anymore. I went a couple of years ago and they had minimal large format gear, locked up like museum pieces, almost no darkroom gear except for minimal chemistry, and loads of digital toys. I did not bother to go when I was in NYC this summer.

I ordered the Feisol leveling base to check it out and see if it is a viable option for me when backpacking my gear. My Gitzo pan tilt head weighs ~3 pounds which nearly doubles my tripod weight.

[r.e.]

Jerold,

Most of the problem that I ran into today applied to digital users as well as film users. The limited tripod components, etc. have nothing to do with film usage. The Novoflex base is apparently of principal interest to digital photographers making digital panoramas.

What struck me is that B&H has this stuff and that other reputable NY camera stores seem to be cutting way back on inventory.

[Steve Barber]

It looks like several tripod manufacturers - Feisol, Gitzo, Manfrotto, Really Right Stuff, etc. - are making these. If I understand correctly, it amounts to replacing the flat plate on the top of the tripod with a socket in the shape of a bowl, into which one inserts a half sphere that can be moved around to make a level (or indeed up to 20 degree tilted) surface. It seems inspired by the standard setup for video tripods, which have a bowl at the top of the tripod legs, 75mm, 100mm or 150mm in diameter, into which a video fluid head is inserted and leveled.

That takes care of leveling. By screwing a Novoflex Panorama Plate to the half sphere's flat top, one could add panning. This would make for a very low profile setup.

I think you understand correctly and I compliment you on your ability to say it more succinctly than I was able to.

[jeroldharter]

I received my Feisol leveling head today and installed it. It requires a 2.5 mm Allen wrench to swap out.

Takes some getting used to. Definitely need levels on the camera. The clamp down mechanism is solid but not damped. All or nothing tension so you have to hold onto the camera to avoid flop.

I think it is best for people who walk around with the camera attached to the baseboard. Removing it with the "Barber Method" results is the fairly large half-ball protruding from the base of the camera. Not a problem for me in the field but could be a packing problem with some cases. Attaching it was relatively easy with practice, not much different than attaching the camera to a regular pan tilt head. I don't like having two loose pieces, the locking handle and collar. Too easy to lose.

It is quite solid. It locks solid too. The base plate on which the camera sits is smaller than the base plate of my Gitzo pan-tilt head so there is more potential for the bed of the camera to flex.

The weight is 16 ounces. That compares to my Gitzo head at 44 ounces! That is a ~2 pounds saving right there which is significant in the field. So I think I will try it on my next trip.

[r.e.]

So I think I will try it on my next trip.

I appreciate your observations on the Feisol. I would also be interested in your views once you have used it in the field.

I'm rapidly coming around to Drew Wiley's view, but I'm going to go to B&H on Sunday when they re-open and have a look at various leveling heads and the Novoflex Panorama Plate. I also want to have a look at video tripods.

I don't know whether Christopher Broadbent has seen this thread, but if so, and if he's inclined to comment, I'd like to know what he is using as a half sphere/plate for the 75mm bowl on his Vinten tripod. As far as I can tell from the Vinten catalogue, they only make full pan and tilt fluid heads, so presumably it is someone else's.

[jeroldharter]

I just weighed my tripod with the ball removed (attached to the base of my camera) and the handle/locking collar removed. It weighs a hair under 4 pounds. Amazing really. If I left the complete leveling base on the tripod, the weight would be just under 5 pounds. Still not bad.

If only my film holders did not weigh 20 pounds...

[r.e.]

I went to B&H today and had a look at levelling bases and dedicated pan plates.

For the Gitzo 1325 tripod that I have, there appear to be two leveling base options:

1. Gitzo 1521 levelling base,
2. Gitzo 75mm or 100mm bowl adaptor plus Manfrotto 500 or 520 half ball adaptor.

It turns out that Gitzo and Really Right Stuff, in addition to Novoflex, make dedicated pan plates.

At the moment, my inclination is to use the tripod legs to level for awhile and see how it goes. A pan plate remains an interesting idea, not so much to make minute adjustments, but as a way to orient the camera rail in relation to the legs. Right now, the rail, when screwed down to the tripod crown, is almost directly in line with one of the legs. This is not ideal for close work. Still thinking about whether this is an issue as a practical matter.

[jeroldharter]

Wouldn't the size of the camera bed make it awkward to access the controls of a pan head? I forget, is this 8x10?

[r.e.]

Wouldn't the size of the camera bed make it awkward to access the controls of a pan head? I forget, is this 8x10?

Hi Jerold,

It's an Arca-Swiss 8x10 monorail, so that isn't an issue. However, the Novoflex Panorama Plate is pretty small in diameter. I understand now, when Christopher Broadbent talked about using the Novoflex, why he said that he would have preferred something larger. I'm going to make some measurements of my tripod crown and camera tripod block and drop by B&H again later this week. Today, it was open for the first time in 10 days and it was a madhouse :) I did a quick run-through, will go back when things are calmer.

[jeroldharter]

That is a nice aspect of a monorail vs. a field camera. But yes, the relatively small top plates on these things are more of a see-saw design than a camera support.

I need a 6 inch square, carbon fiber lazy Susan as the trpod's top plate.

I forget exactly how it worked, but Bruce Wehman (Wehman Cameras) has a clever, minimalist design for mounting his 8x10 that consisted of an aluminum disc on the bottom of the camera. It locked down tight but if slightly loosened it would pan.

[johnielvis]

for light weight witht he 11x14 field camera (hah ha ha ha ha) I've started using a safe lock projector table---huge base--4 legs.....just place the big 11x14 field camera on the top of it flat base on the flat base of the table...either put a sticky kitchen cabinet rubber on top to keep it from slipping OR...for minute slide adjustments, put a cardboard or something...a cutting board works too (keep the bottom of the camera from being scratched up.....it has 4 legs---so kind of a pain sometimes...but for light weight, the safe lock is the absolute best---a modification o that table with three legs would be the best, but they donnt make them---using a safe lock is silmilar to some of these ulf cameras with "made for the camera" tripods, that use the WHOLE camera base as the base plate.

the safe lock can be carried next to a case of filmholders adding minimal weight--I started doing this so that I can carry the 11x14, a pack of like 10 film holders (heavy--fidelity) for the other arm--and a bag with big packard box, lens, meter, vivitar 285, tape, etc etc.....over the shoulder--now where to put the saltzman???? NOWHERE...gotta make 2 trips or use a cart---FOR GET THAT....so I saw this safe lock on craigslist---does the job for moveing the camera to , say another building for portrats or whatever--use the camera movements to "level" it---OR...bring some shims (or "find" some at your destination)...you can put in books, magazines newspapers to proper thickness under the camera bottom....it works out pretty good so far---

to move the camera around on the floor too--to compose portraits, I get these furnature sliders for the bottom of the legs...allows the whole shebang to be moved around on a floor, carpet.

[jeroldharter]

Manfrotto has a slide projector plate that fits atop a tripod. A handy person could add a camera screw to the top for something like the big 11x14. I would hate to leave the camera up there unattached. It weighs almost as much as my tripod though, so not a good option for "ultralight" 8x10.

[jeroldharter]

The link did not come through:

http://www.vistek.ca/store/ProVideoAccessories/129544/manfrotto-projector-table.aspx

[johnielvis]

hay---that's a pretty decent size plate...BUT....maybe I'll just make a bigger plate for the calumet tripod I got....just lke a bigger base---I'm actually getting used to the big camera resting without anything holding it....I guess if I want to use extreme angles, there's always the carpenters clamps..

it's an iterative process...getting what works right with me for what I'm doing at the current time...what works now...well..probably won't work in a year if doing something else....there a millions ways to skin a cat....just keep looking is what I do---there's ALWAYS another way to do it. just because it's been done before, that don't mean that's the best way---

a lot of things evolve because they are best--that's nature at work, but some things aren't best for all people---you use what works best for you.

there is NO "best" anything.....it's all relative to the situation at hand and the job to get done---and the tools available--the constraints--especially time, I'm finding, is a huge constraint.....ahhhh..but I digress....

[r.e.]

I measured the diameter of the Novoflex Universal Panorama Basewhile at the NY Photo Show yesterday. For whatever reason, this info is not available on the Novoflex site, nor, as far as i can tell, anywhere else. Anyway, the disc is 50cm.

The Really Right Stuff equivalent, which comes with an Arca-Swiss style quick release clamp, is 70 mm.

The Novoflex is $195 and the Really Right Stuff is $235. Novoflex makes a version with a clamp, but it is much more expensive. I have not seen the RRS plate, and therefore can't make a comparison.

[Jeff Dexheimer]

I didn't read through the other responses so my apologies if what I say has been covered already.

I am using a Berlebach without a head. My camera mounts directly to a ball and socked joint on top of the tripod. I can loosen easily loosen and tighten the ball to pan. Problem is, there is 15 degrees of tilt so whenever I pan I have to re-level the camera. Personally this doesn't bother me in the least. I know you say you don't need tilt, nor do I, but the 15 d tilt is great to have to fine tune leveling the camera which would solve #2 on your list. For me the easiest level is simply a standalone level that I keep in my bag. I can use it where ever I need it whenever I need it.

I have really only used a headless tripod, so I don't know what I am missing. Don't really care either since my headless system works perfect for me and it cost a ton less.

[jeroldharter]

I measured the diameter of the Novoflex Universal Panorama Basewhile at the NY Photo Show yesterday. For whatever reason, this info is not available on the Novoflex site, nor, as far as i can tell, anywhere else. Anyway, the disc is 50cm.
.

50 cm? That is almost 20 inches in diameter. Quite the plate. Are you sure you don't mean 50 mm, but that is like balancing an 8x10 on a thimble.

[r.e.]

50 cm? That is almost 20 inches in diameter. Quite the plate. Are you sure you don't mean 50 mm, but that is like balancing an 8x10 on a thimble.

Hi Jerold, sorry yes I meant 5cm, 50mm. Which makes it small, although I know, from other threads, that Christopher Broadbent is using it for 8x10, although he also said that he would prefer something larger. The RRS panorama plate is apparently larger, based on a telephone discussion with them, by 2cm, 20mm.

[jeroldharter]

In a few days I will be in Yosemite trying out the headless Feisol with the leveling base. I will report back next week.

[r.e.]

In a few days I will be in Yosemite trying out the headless Feisol with the leveling base. I will report back next week.

I look forward to it.

[mamanton]

For a half of a year I use Linhof Leveling head with Linhof kardan 13x18.
it weight only 550g. 15 degree. Very comfortable.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/31375-REG/Linhof_003659_Large_Leveling_Head.html

you may find it much cheaper, than on BH

[jeroldharter]

Well, just a few hours into using the Feisol leveling base with mu Wehman 8x10 I abandoned ship. Just to be safe, I packed my Gitzo pan-tilt head so I drove back to the hotel to change out the heads.

The leveling base is over 2 pounds lighter so I loved that. I had no problem attaching the camera using the large screw-in base. Leveling the camera in one dimension was fairly easy. However, leveling it in the second dimension was much more fussy. If I found that I needed to pan a little bit I was screwed because I would have to do everything over again.

I concluded that practice would not make perfect in this case so I threw in the towel. I need the pan and tilt functions. I am impressed with the guys who manage without a head. But it slowed me down too much and was annoying.

[r.e.]

If I found that I needed to pan a little bit I was screwed because I would have to do everything over again.

Do you think that you'd still be unhappy if you had a panning base between the leveling base and the camera?

[jeroldharter]

Do you think that you'd still be unhappy if you had a panning base between the leveling base and the camera?

Probably not with my camera (flatbed). I don't think I could have only a panning base on top because that would require spinning the camera around on the screw which I would not like. So I would need to add a quick release plate on top of that. In the end, I would be spending a lot of money to recreate a stripped down pan tilt head with out much weight savings.

I spent all day today with my Gitzo pan-tilt head and it was so much easier and faster to set up. I did not mind the weight so much after spending the previous morning wrestling with the leveling base. The incidental things I like about the Gitzo head are the stout handles. When I stop, I can hang things securely from the handles like a filter wallet, hat, scene framing card, etc. Not a huge deal but I realized how convenient that is.

I am surprised that nobody makes a CF or some other lightweight pan-tilt head to go with all of these CF tripods.

From what I can tell from checking out all of the digital photographers milling around Yosemite is that 99% of them use ball heads.

So yes, I think I would still be unhappy with a leveling base + panning base.

[r.e.]

Yes, I'm considering a levelling base and panning base for a rail camera. From what I've seen, the available panning bases would not work well with a flatbed camera.

[cjbecker]

Right now I am using a 3021 and a 410 geared head. I love the usability of the head but i don't like how much it gets torqued under the load of my older arca swiss. I was wondering if the manfrotto 555b leveling column would be able to handle it. All I ever used the 410 is to level the tripod so i don't really need all the movement that it offers.

I already know that the 3416 leveling base will work. Just wondering if the 555b would work?

[Robert Tilden]

Gives me an idea for a product- an audio output level that nulls out when the bubble is centered, and gives a tone proportional to how off-center the bubble is (no actual bubble used). Should be fairly simple...

If you have an iphone or pad there's a pretty good level app called "Clinometer" that has a couple of modes- bubble or spirit. At least on the iPhone it has a 'beep on lock' option.

[cjbecker]

I actually used the 3021 with the 4x5 older arca swiss straight on the top. I was using the the legs too level the camera and it worked out beautiful.

[Drew Wiley]

It's just a matter of practice. The old time surveyors did it that way routinely. I rarely use
a tripod head in any format. Never with 8X10. You can always simply pack a pan/tilt head
on the side, and if you can't get along without it, it's there. But you really do get more
stability without one. Just redundant weight as far as I'm concerned. And after awhile setting up headless becomes spontaneous, and virtually as fast. Don't get me wrong - I
kept all my tripods heads just in case, and sometimes do use them, but more for studio
applications like the copystand - almost never in the field.