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View Full Version : What are you using to temper your chemicals (Bathroom geniuses please respond)



sully75
9-Oct-2011, 13:57
Getting back into the "darkroom" aka the bathroom or maybe kitchen of the house I live in with 2 roommates. I've been frustrated in the past with tempering chemicals. Currently I'm using some plastic rubbermade drink pitchers. They work ok but probably something metal would be better for quickly chilling or warming stuff. I have some metal graduates, but find they are too small for when I want to do a batch operation.

So...any thoughts or suggestions about what to use? I'm open to any suggestions, but it needs to be something that I can carry into the bathroom and carry out. I have extremely limited space to work in. I'm only developing the film, I'm printing digitally.

Cheap is good also.

The short question: can you link to me something good to temper my chemicals in?

Gem Singer
9-Oct-2011, 14:34
I have been developing film in a walk-in closet that has been serving as my darkroom for the last 4 years. No running water in the closet.

Using a 3-liter size Rubbermade pitcher, I carry enough tempered water for film processing from the kitchen to the darkroom.

The door of my refrigerator dispenses ice and water that has passed through a 5 micron filter. Good enough for mixing photo chemicals

If the water temperature is under 70F, I place the pitcher in my microwave for a few seconds to warm it.

If the water temperature is too warm, I dispense enough crushed ice from the refrigerator door to cool it down to 70F.

The final wash is done in the adjoining bathroom sink under filtered tap water.

Simple, fast, and effective.

ic-racer
9-Oct-2011, 14:41
If you are doing B&W, the only temperature sensitive step is development. Just run it at room temp. and adjust your development time based on the ambient temp.

AnselAdamsX
9-Oct-2011, 15:11
I haven't bothered tempering my D76 and so far so good:cool:

chassis
9-Oct-2011, 15:20
I use D-76 stock solution at room temp, and "temper" in a BTZS tray using water from the cold tap. The water in the tray is more to float and rotate the tubes, than it is for tempering. I am happy with the results.

I don't temper stop bath or fixer, and wash negatives using cold tap water.

Gem Singer
9-Oct-2011, 15:27
It's a good idea to temper the pre-wash, developer, stop bath, and fixer within a few degrees of each other to prevent grain clumping in B&W film.

If processing with an MQ or PQ developer in water below 65F, the hydroquinone in the developer may not activate

When washing in tap water warmer than 86F (as it often is here in Texas in the summertime) there is a risk of softening of the gel in the film emulsion.

It's a good idea to temper all film processing solutions to within a few degrees of each other, if possible.

I have noticed that the method of agitation has a greater effect on the contrast than temperature variations. (I have no scientific facts to back up that statement).

Merg Ross
9-Oct-2011, 15:54
It's a good idea to temper the pre-wash, developer, stop bath, and fixer within a few degrees of each other to prevent grain clumping in B&W film.

If processing with an MQ or PQ developer in water below 65F, the hydroquinone in the developer may not activate

When washing in tap water warmer than 86F (as it often is here in Texas in the summertime) there is a risk of softening of the gel in the film emulsion.

It's a good idea to temper all film processing solutions to within a few degrees of each other, if possible.

I have noticed that the method of agitation has a greater effect on the contrast than temperature variations. (I have no scientific facts to back up that statement).

Hi Gem,

I agree with all of your statements (speaking from experience)! I keep all solutions within two degrees of each other, even the wash step. I am fortunate that the tap water never runs warmer than 70 degrees here.

Merg

Bill Burk
9-Oct-2011, 16:18
A metal saucepan / stockpot would work well. I was lucky to pick up a stainless steel pot at a local overstock store for just a few dollars. It has a rolled lip, no handles 7 inch diameter, 7 inch high, holds just over a gallon. I stamped the gallon mark in it and use it to mix chems (put on stove until temp is right for mix) and for tempering it is perfect. If the ambient temp is cold, I just fill it with hot tap water and set it in the developer tray. If a bottle of chem is cold, I drop it into the pot with the hot water. A gallon plastic jug fits nicely inside. Only thing inconvenient is that I have to remember the bottom is contaminated after sitting in a tray, but that is pretty obvious.

Like Merg, I rarely have to deal with anything hotter than 70-degrees. A bit of chilled water and ice cools the tray as easily as the hot water warmed it.

I also run water from the laundry sink to the darkroom sink in a long hose. I bought an extra hose and strapped it into a coil. When the tap water is 70-degrees, I put a bag of ice in an ice chest and drop the coil into the ice chest. Running the water slowly, it can cool 2-degrees without difficulty. Of course a copper coil would be so much cooler but also would take this out of being cheap. This last year was on the cool side, I didn't need to put the coil in the ice chest.

jeroldharter
9-Oct-2011, 16:24
Some options:

A Phototherm water bath tray which includes a thermostatic heating element and circulation pump. You can temper your bottles in the bath.

A tub with an aquarium heater and aquarium circulation pump. Inexpensive but slow to heat.

I forget the brand, but you could get one of the thermostatic submersible heating element. They look like a long, U-shaped element on a cord.

You could use a tray/tub with a large bottle of hot water and another bottle of frozen water. When the water gets too cool, put the hot jug in for awhile. If too hot, put in the frozen jug. You could use freezer packs for coolers, or microwaveable gel packs for heaters also.

A Jobo TBE 12 is a tempering bath that works with Jobo 1 liter bottles.

If you process in BTZS tubes, you can use the included tempering tray.

tgtaylor
9-Oct-2011, 17:12
For B&W chemistry simply plug the bathroom sink and fill it up with tap water and a little cold water from the fridge/cooler to bring it to, say 68F if necessary. Insert the chemistry in caped bottles like the Jobo containers mentioned above and use a ice cube or two to keep it at the right temperature. You can also use the water in the sink as a rinse.

Thomas

Jan Normandale
11-Oct-2011, 21:09
I recommend Square Frog's video… don't bother with 'tempering' just use room temp water and go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0Ul_wsYO8

For the actual film / developer time go to Digtal truth's , Massive Dev Chart
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php

Works for me. All you need to see, read, and know. Good luck!

Jan Normandale
12-Oct-2011, 08:44
To clarify I should add that I use HC110 or Rodinal with room temp water for one shot developing.

Brian C. Miller
12-Oct-2011, 13:04
I use my chemicals at room temperature, but only when the room temperature is within a reasonable range.

When room temperature isn't reasonable, I cool with cold water, ice, and even put a jug in the freezer for a bit. Or else I heat it up with a tray and an aquarium heater and circulate with a fish pump. I fill a gallon jug with wash water, and that way I don't have to keep monitoring the temp coming from the faucet.

One fellow I met used the heating pads for reptiles under his trays. He said they worked just fine.

jnantz
12-Oct-2011, 14:27
get a tray at your local dollar store for "kitty litter"
fill it with water and use that as your "holding bath"
where you put all your beakers, or trays or whatever you use ...
figure out how long it takes you to do a film run ...
put your chemistry in your beakers or containers you usually use
and do a dry run ( without film )
see what the temp. difference is between the beginning and the end.

how are you processing your film ?

sully75
12-Oct-2011, 16:11
Thanks for all the suggestions. My roommates don't seem to mind me using the kitchen to develop, which is a lot easier because I can fit all my beakers (aka juice pitchers) into the sink. Previous bathroom sinks didn't have enough room for all of them. It was no problem today. My tap water seems to be around 65 degrees, so pretty easy to get things to 68.

Henry Ambrose
12-Oct-2011, 16:34
Assuming reasonable room temperature, don't temper - just keep a large quantity of water sitting to use in your processes. A five gallon container full with top can be kept in most any out of the way spot in your house.

If all your chemicals and the water you use are at let's say, 70 degrees - you're good to go. Use a temperature conversion chart to adjust your times if the temp varies a little from day to day.

Robert Oliver
12-Oct-2011, 20:22
I use frozen film canisters when I need ice and I don't want to dilute dev or fix.

Bill Burk
13-Oct-2011, 07:05
Good roommates! (Or is it just that they appreciate the kitchen is finally getting cleaned?)

Brian Ellis
13-Oct-2011, 07:31
Paper chemicals don't need to be tempered as long as you adjust developer time for increases or decreases. That can be done mechanically (Zone VI Studios Compensating Developing Timer) or by eye. Unless you think you can get a final print on the first try, which I never ever did, adjusting by eye is simple though I did use the Zone VI timer.

For film I used the BTZS tubes and rolled them in a water jacket that was a couple degrees cooler than my starting temperature of 75 degrees. Even then I'd find that the temperature of the developer at the end of the 7-10 minutes of time was a couple degrees warmer than when I started. But that's how I tested and that's how I consistently processed so it didn't matter.

Stop and fix can be any temperature within reason.

Kerry L. Thalmann
13-Oct-2011, 11:20
I forget the brand, but you could get one of the thermostatic submersible heating element. They look like a long, U-shaped element on a cord.

One of these is about to end on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Doran-Processor-Temperature-Control-Model-TC-750-/130583836562

Kerry

Kerry L. Thalmann
13-Oct-2011, 11:32
A Jobo TBE 12 is a tempering bath that works with Jobo 1 liter bottles.

Holy cow! A Jobo TBE-2/12 recently sold for $449.44 on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-JOBO-TBE-2-12-Darkroom-Chemical-Tempering-Box-/150651794664

I know prices on Jobo gear have been skyrocketing, and that one was in exceptionally good condition (unused), but that seems like a lot of money just to keep liquid warm.

Don't get me wrong, it's a GREAT unit (I have one). You can remove the red plastic top (that holds the Jobo bottles) and use whatever size bottles you desire, or use it as a tempering bath for BTZS or other developing tubes/drums. So, it's a very nice, very usable tempering bath. I was just surprised by the final bid on that one.

Kerry

jeroldharter
13-Oct-2011, 13:10
Hard to believe that Jobo cannot make a profit selling $500 plastic jars and tubs.

John Kasaian
13-Oct-2011, 13:31
I keep my B&W chemicals are in amber glass 1 gallon jugs in the same location, so they are all the same temperature.

Graybeard
13-Oct-2011, 14:34
My darkroom is the the basement of a rural farmhouse. With the exception of the month of August (and then not always) I find it necessary to heat my B&W chemistry in order to process film at 72F.

For several years now, I have been using a surplus laboratory water bath (constant temperature bath), obtained on eBay, for film processing; this will easily hold temperature to within +/- 0.1C (As a retired chemist, I've been using these things since my University days). I first bring the developer to temperature in a SS pitcher (beaker, graduate) in the bath, then put my processing tank (sheet film with hangers or Nikor roll film tank) right in the bath and work with it there.

The bath that I'm using cost about $35, my spare/replacement bath, much newer and which I bought on a good day, was 99 cents.

For printing, I just heat the darkroom with an electrical space heater; it will hold the room +/- 5F.

BIG TIME IMPORTANT!!!. It is all too easy to forget things and leave one of these baths going after you leave the darkroom. If your luck is really bad, the water will all evaporate from the bath, the electrical heater will overheat and start a fire. This had occurred with sufficient frequency in industrial chemical laboratories in the past that the CT baths sold now are equipped with overtemperature controls intended prevent this. A surplus unit may not have such a safety device; the older unit that I use now does not.

I have my unit on a mechanical industrial timer that shuts the power off after two hours, far too short a time to evaporate the water should I forget to shut the CT bath off. I just wind the time and have power to the CT bath for two hours - for a long session I just wind the timer a second time.

This said, I just turn the CT bath on, and within an hour am ready to work no matter what the ambient temperature.

EdWorkman
15-Oct-2011, 15:46
I use liquid concentrates, stored in the darkroom, but I've had several bathroom "labs".
I have a large Rubbermaid -5 gallon? storage tub which i fill with water. The tapwater temp varies with season , and in summer the cold side may near 80 degrees F.
So I mix hot+cold or cold+icecubes until I get a constant 65-75 degrees .
Parts of the year a tidy 68 is easy, others not, so I vary the develope time accordingly
That takes a few minutes but not long as I take the temp frequently while the tub fills so as to keep it from the extremes. Then I mix the concentrates with the water a little short of the total volume to allow a last adjustment with hot water or ice as needed to get the dilution to match the tub temp. As i rinse-develope-rinse-fix-rinse-dehypo, the tub water volume is large enuogh to stay very close to the original temp, and if the ambient temp is extreme I have time to toss in a dollop to correct it so the large volume of wash water will be on temp.
During the next set i have time to top up the tub and adjust it.
Other than thermometers for each volume, it's no tech