Thoughts on wood tripods [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Jeff Dexheimer

6-Oct-2011, 17:54

I am soon in the market for a new tripod. My current cheap $60 department store tripod is not cutting it. I have looked around online and I find many onions on the matter.

According to some, wood is best for LF because its ability to absorb vibrations and its resistance to cold weather fluctuations. The thing I like most about wood tripods is that you can get them for about half the cost of carbon fibre. Also, the Berlebach tripods are nice because they don't require a separate head. I looked into Ries as well, but they're more than double a berlebach.

Looking at the CF, they are just too expensive for me. Aluminum seems like a good compromise but I would worry about resonance vibrations on an aluminum tripod.

Most all of my photography involves some light hiking to my destination. I don't think I'll mind the added weight of wood, especially when I know my wallet is much better off because of it.

What recommendations would you have

Daniel Stone

6-Oct-2011, 18:05

wooden tripods are great. If I wasn't so attached to my 5-series gitzo, I'd seriously consider a Ries tripod for my 8x10 camera(my primary format).

Please let us know what you're going to be mounting on the tripod(of any variation) equipment-wise.

-Dan

Jeff Dexheimer

6-Oct-2011, 18:12

paulr

6-Oct-2011, 18:19

I have an old zone vi that works quite well, without the prettiness of a reis. Perhaps there are some on the used market. I like wood because it's so much more comfortable to carry around than aluminum. Smooth surfaces, no parts to pinch you, not as biting in the cold, easy to work with gloves.

Walter Calahan

6-Oct-2011, 18:33

I use two different size Ries tripods for my LF work. They are great. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy a quality carbon fiber tripod, because I use them with my medium format and 35mm work.

What's nice about Ries is their lifetime commitment to assuring you replacement parts. I have had them send me the smallest missing screw for absolutely free years after buying their products.

Leigh

6-Oct-2011, 18:38

I too have a Zone VI wood tripod, and it works great with my Zone VI 4x5.

However, I use a Majestic for the 8x10 Tachihara. The wood tripod is not quite up to the task.

- Leigh

John Kasaian

6-Oct-2011, 21:45

For my 4x5 GV2 and 5x7 Speeder, I've found a used Tilt-all (around &70 on eBay) worls well ... for heavier cameras like the V8 'dorff, I use wood.

swmcl

7-Oct-2011, 01:36

I've just bought a secondhand Ries. Its an A100-2 with an A 250-2 head. My initial thoughts are not that good.

When the legs are spread somewhat, I can press down on the top of the tripod and the legs spread further. The leg locks found on tripods like the Gitzo and Manfrotto basically stop the legs from spreading past their allotted angle.

The legs on the Ries aren't going to flex anytime soon like the carbon fibre and aluminium ones might - but they do spread. The head is huge and rather clumsy too. Luckily, LF photography is a considered pastime where 30mins per photo is quite normal ! I miss the levelling of the Gitzo on the Ries.

I'm not really sold on Ries I must admit. I also own a top-of-the-line CF Gitzo a GT2540LVL with the big LF head and a Manfrotto 190 type. I'm still looking for the perfect tripod - or a really good one.

I get the impression that companies like Ries and Manfrotto are resting on their laurels a bit. I can improve on each so surely their R&D departments can !

Vaughn

7-Oct-2011, 02:53

My Ries is one of the best investment I made. Personally I have had no problem with the legs spreading -- except when using the spikes on a smooth floor. In fact I have to remember to lock the legs after setting it up, not that I am worried that the legs will spread, but to reduce the chances of vibrations, or kicking a leg out with my size 12's! I do need to re-sharpen my spikes on of these days.

But it has take abuse that would have badly damaged a carbon fiber or aluminum pod. Since I often get off-trail I have taken some interesting falls. Whacking a metal or carbon fiber pod against sharp rocks is usually not a good idea. I have had to replace a leg on a Gitzo before from denting the tube enough to keep the inner legs from moving...and have had the threaded portion of a leg crack off.

Wood does tend to give a little rather than dent or break -- and is nicer to carry on cold days.

GPS

7-Oct-2011, 03:32

...

According to some, wood is best for LF because its ability to absorb vibrations and its resistance to cold weather fluctuations.
...
Looking at the CF, they are just too expensive for me. Aluminum seems like a good compromise but I would worry about resonance vibrations on an aluminum tripod.
...

Hmm. Now, what kind of vibrations do you think of? Those from the ground or those from the shutter?
You say you need a tripod for hiking. What kind of vibrations from the ground do you expect in nature? Shutter vibrates the camera (if it does) the same on a wooden or CF tripod because the vibrations start on the camera (if they do at all) not under the tripod.

Michael Graves

7-Oct-2011, 04:40

I'm a big fan of wooden tripods, and have tried several. I had a brief fling with a Zone VI. It was very stable, but ergonomically did not work for me. So I sold it. Then I had a brief fling with the Ries. Once again, it was a beautifully made piece of equipment that gave me fits trying to manage it in rough terrain. Then I got a Berlebach for my 4x5 and the love affair began. I've since bought a 4000 series 'pod for my 8x10 and an itty bitty one for low to the ground use that, despite its small size easily supports my Chamonix.

7-Oct-2011, 05:55

I have used a Ries for a day, but thought the head was a little complicated / unintuitive to use; I'm sure I could get used to it. It was a good tripod though. I'm inclined to try a Berlebach for my next tripod.

Department store tripods are junk, every last one of them, no matter the price, even for the task of holding a flip video cam.

Carbon Fiber is overrated I think. If I have to conserve a pound or two of weight, it ought to come off me, not the tripod. I used a manfrotto carbon fiber tripod a couple weeks ago and it, and it might have been fine for a 35mm camera, but it wasn't very solid for a speed graphic, and when I put a 5x7 camera on it, and pushed down a little to make sure the feet were firm in the grass I was on, the leg started to retract. I like my manfrotto monopod though, so I'm not against the brand. You probably have to buy from the higher end of their product line for something suited to LF.

If it's for 4x5, a tiltall may be suitable. That's mostly what I use with my speed graphics. It only $100, but way more solid than most tripods twice the price, and that is the reason it has such a cult following. I also use an aluminum surveying tripod for 8x10, and use it without a head. Aluminum is underrated in my opinion. The downside of aluminum is it's cold in sub-freezing weather (but you can wear gloves or wrap your tripod). It could transmit vibration better than wood, but that's not a concern for the nature/people stuff I'm apt to use my cameras for.

sully75

7-Oct-2011, 06:04

I'm pretty happy with my $80 Tiltall. Was carrying it around on my shoulder with a 5x7 camera for about an hour last week. Definitely could feel it but not too bad. Controls are pretty simple. Nothing exciting and I'm sure something more expensive would be nicer. But it would be more expensive.

johnmsanderson

7-Oct-2011, 06:24

I have a Ries for sale in the FS forum. Awesome, stable, tripod. Very intuitive and the unlimited tilt angle on the legs comes in handy in precarious situations. Reason I'm not keeping it is that its just a bit heavier than what I use otherwise ( I tend to carry the camera over my shoulder around the city lately, and the Ries isn't the best for this ).

bobwysiwyg

7-Oct-2011, 06:27

If I have to conserve a pound or two of weight, it ought to come off me, not the tripod.

+1

Sadly, I could probably donate more than a pound or two towards the goal. ;)

Brian Ellis

7-Oct-2011, 07:36

Photographers have been making excellent photographs with all kinds of different tripods for years. I don't think the material makes a significant practical difference. I'd just buy whatever you like and that you think will work.

I've never owned a Ries but I sold one for a friend recently and played around with it a little. It was a beautiful tripod, so beautiful I wouldn't have wanted to take it out. I prefer ugly Gitzo carbon fiber that I bang around everywhere without worrying about it.

I use a Feisol carbon fiber tripod for smaller cameras sometimes. Mine is a very nice tripod that cost about $200. It wouldn't be suitable for a heavy LF camera but they make other models, you might check them out if you like carbon fiber but don't want to pay Gitzo prices. If there's a difference in the build quality of my Feisol and my Gitzo 1325 I haven't noticed it. The Feisol is actually easier to use.

Peter De Smidt

7-Oct-2011, 07:40

I have a Zone VI Standard wood tripod, Gitzo series 5 tripods, and a Gitzo 1227 carbon fiber tripod. Well, I have even more, but these are what I use.

I'm not sure about the vibration claims. Wooden tripods tend to weigh more than aluminum ones or carbon fiber ones, and that's the big advantage....and disadvantage.
Remember that violins are made of wood because of how well it vibrates. Some are also made of carbon fiber, but I've never heard of one made of aluminum, at least one that could be played.

Big spiked surveyor style tripod feet work wonderfully in muck and soft ground, but they don't work so well on hard surfaces, especially surfaces that you don't want to damage.

Personally, I use my Gitzo series 5 aluminum tripod the most. It's compact, lighter than my Zone VI, and works well on a variety of surfaces. It is plenty strong and vibration resistant for both my 8x10 and 4x5 cameras. If I'm just going to be out in the woods, say, and not going too far, the Zone VI it is. If I have to go light, then the Gitzo CF is the ticket, but I only use it with medium format rangefinders and smaller cameras. I did use it with a Toho superlight 4x5, and it was ok for that, but I had to weigh the legs down when taking a shot, and that was a pain.

One issue with wood is that it can warp. I had a Zone VI lightweight where this happened, and it caused operational issues. Sure, it could've been fixed, but I got rid of it and got their standard model instead, which I greatly prefer.

I've played with some Berlebach tripods, and they seem quite nice.
Reis tripods are super high quality.

One more thing: the wooden tripods I've used and seen don't work as well near the ground as a standard aluminum or carbon fiber pod.

So as has been said, all of these materials (and more) can make wonderful tripods. The type of construction and weight probably have more impact on usability and performance than the materials of which they are made.

Jeff Dexheimer

7-Oct-2011, 07:42

GPS

7-Oct-2011, 07:58

Wow, thanks for all the replies!

Vibrations in nature that are a concern for me would be wind and water. I shoot in streams quite often and I live in a very windswept area. Plus I am in Northern Minnesota and winter lasts a long time, so cold weather performance is a must for me.

Winds and water don't vibrate a tripod. They're external forces that can move a tripod (but then they move the tripod regardless of its material - only the weight makes a difference) but not vibrate it as winds do not vibrate in themselves, only push. Water cannot vibrate a heavy tripod either for the same reason - in nature, water doesn't vibrate. Irregular pushes can move a tripod only if they're strong enough - regardless of tripods materials.
As to the idea to use a wooden tripod in water it seems it has some disadvantages in comparison to metal/CF tripods too.

E. von Hoegh

7-Oct-2011, 08:07

An easy way to stabilise a tripod is to carry a sack and some line . Fill the sack with rocks or sand, and suspend from the center post. My old CECo wood tripod has holes in the top casting to suspend sandbags from, but you can do this with any tripod - works wonders for damping vibration.

I use a Tiltall for 4x5 and smaller and the aforesaid CECo for 8x10. The CECo weighs 16 lbs with the head and can support me, at 170 pounds. I've never had to use the sack of rocks on either tripod.

Jeff Dexheimer

7-Oct-2011, 08:25

Winds and water don't vibrate a tripod. They're external forces that can move a tripod (but then they move the tripod regardless of its material - only the weight makes a difference) but not vibrate it as winds do not vibrate in themselves, only push. Water cannot vibrate a heavy tripod either for the same reason - in nature, water doesn't vibrate. Irregular pushes can move a tripod only if they're strong enough - regardless of tripods materials.
As to the idea to use a wooden tripod in water it seems it has some disadvantages in comparison to metal/CF tripods too.

Not to start an argument with you, but wind and water do cause vibrations called resonance. This happens more so with hallow materials such a hallow aluminum or cf tubes, hence my concern and also why musical instruments are made out of hallow wood rather than solid wood. If you want to se an extreme example of resonance vibrations, check out Tacoma Narrows bridge. Wind and water passing by the materials causes the material to vibrate.

At any rate, I just want to know what others experiences were with wood. And many thanks for those of you that replied.

Jim Noel

7-Oct-2011, 08:33

I have 4 wooden tripods, all made by Otto. I also have an aluminum one which never gets used. There are too many advantages to wood when properly made.

GPS

7-Oct-2011, 08:39

Not to start an argument with you, but wind and water do cause vibrations called resonance. This happens more so with hallow materials such a hallow aluminum or cf tubes, hence my concern and also why musical instruments are made out of hallow wood rather than solid wood. If you want to se an extreme example of resonance vibrations, check out Tacoma Narrows bridge. Wind and water passing by the materials causes the material to vibrate.

At any rate, I just want to know what others experiences were with wood. And many thanks for those of you that replied.

Don't worry. Tripods have no hallow materials that could create a flute wind singing vibrations to you camera. You would need to drink a lot for that to hear it. And using the Tacoma bridge as an example of why a wooden tripod is better for a camera than CF tripods is technically out of reality. You see, when you defend a technically incorrect notion you inevitably fall into more and more technically incorrect affirmations.
A wind can cause a flute to play but not the tripod. Their construction is different and wind effects on them too.
Now, have a look at the Tacoma bridge and rush for a wooden tripod...;)

Jeff Dexheimer

7-Oct-2011, 08:51

Don't worry. Tripods have no hallow materials that could create a flute wind singing vibrations to you camera. You would need to drink a lot for that to hear it. And using the Tacoma bridge as an example of why a wooden tripod is better for a camera than CF tripods is technically out of reality. You see, when you defend a technically incorrect notion you inevitably fall into more and more technically incorrect affirmations.
A wind can cause a flute to play but not the tripod. Their construction is different and wind effects on them too.
Now, have a look at the Tacoma bridge and rush for a wooden tripod...;)

Do you have something against people new to large format? I have never used a CF tripod nor have I used a quality aluminum tripod and therefore I am unaware of their construction, but if the legs are made out of a hallow tube they will resonate, simple as that. And FYI, everything is vibrating, all the time, yes even the ground, solid rocks and all. I simply want to make an informed decision before I make a purchase and wanted to hear others opinions, which other than you everyone was kind enough to do so. Feel free to reply all day to his and waste you time, I no longer care what you have to say you are on ignore. I just wanted a simple opnion. Sheesh!

GPS

7-Oct-2011, 09:04

Do you have something against people new to large format? I have never used a CF tripod nor have I used a quality aluminum tripod and therefore I am unaware of their construction, but if the legs are made out of a hallow tube they will resonate, simple as that...

Chill down. Metal tripod legs while hollow have their holes covered. And a covered even if hollow cylinder doesn't vibrate in winds. The more you defend a technically incorrect affirmation the more technical faults you make.
For someone who is "unaware of tripods construction" you seem to be quite opinionated about their vibration capacities. Why declare metal tripods as vibrating in winds when they don't?

Robert Oliver

7-Oct-2011, 09:06

I converted an old wooden surveyors tripod to work with my 4x5 and 8x10 when working near the car or in the studio.

I bought a Feisol carbon fiber tripod because it was the simplest and lightest legs I could find for backpacking. I went through a couple of Bogen's CF offerings and decided I needed a bare-bones, no frills lightweight CF tripod.

and to the argument that just take a pound or two off your body instead of your tripod doesn't make much sense when your miserable from all of that extra tripod weight digging into your shoulder. My wooden legs suck to carry for long distances. I don't make very good pictures when I'm not comfortable.

As far as vibrations go... I've never noticed them with any of my tripods (aluminum, wood or CF). You can definitely over think it. Good skills can over-ride any mechanical shortcomings.

Drew Wiley

7-Oct-2011, 09:06

I have always pampered my carbon-fiber tripods. They do get used in all kinds of weather, on granite boulders, in streams and snow etc; but then they are neatly
compacted and tucked under the top flap of my pack. That is not the case with
either of my Ries wooden tripods. They are attached to the back of the pack with
bunji cords and inevitably collide with all kinds of overhanging branches, and have even been used repeatedly to what blackberry vines and poison oak off my intended
route. So I was really suprised when, after many years of battle scars and outright
abuse, and one of my Ries maple legs developed a twist crack, I offered to buy a
new leg from them, but they insisted on giving me one free under lifetime warranty.
I also happen to sell survey tripods, and you get what you pay for. Ries is the real
deal. Nothing rusts, the legs rarely freeze up due to rain or ice, and they support
the camera wonderfully.

GPS

7-Oct-2011, 09:11

...

As far as vibrations go... I've never noticed them with any of my tripods (aluminum, wood or CF). You can definitely over think it. Good skills can over-ride any mechanical shortcomings.

I agree. I routinely take pictures in high winds (have also special cameras for that...) on high mountains (love it) with cameras on CF tripods and don't suffer any vibrations.

Jeff Dexheimer

7-Oct-2011, 09:15

Thanks all. I took most of what everyone here had to say into consideration and I ended up ordering the Berlebach 3032. It fit my budget and seems like a good option based on what people here and other places say about it.

Like anything I know there are many good tools for the job. I am sure this will serve me well. If nothing else it will blow me away when I compare it to my $60 best buy pos I bought 5 months ago.

Brian Ellis

7-Oct-2011, 09:44

Brian Ellis

7-Oct-2011, 09:46

Jeff Dexheimer

7-Oct-2011, 11:01

Haha, That is the funniest thing I have heard today. Thanks!

E. von Hoegh

7-Oct-2011, 11:15

Perfectly good choice. And if it doesn't work out I gather from some of the posts here that it can double as a violin, flute, or bridge. : - )

You forgot that he can burn it in a fit of pique, too.:)

Drew Wiley

7-Oct-2011, 11:57

I totally disagree with the notion that vibration and material composition are unrelated.
There's a reason real surveyors use heavy wooden tripods. Just put a serious laser
or a theodolite on a cheaply made aluminum tripod (even a big survey-style one) up
in these hills on a typical windy spring day. Quality of mfg is of course an integral part
of this question too. But apples to apples, it took me a distinctly heavier aluminum
Gitzo tripod to give me the same performance I now get in the carbon fiber version. And a well-made wooden tripod will do even better, though with a weight penalty. This
might seem like an academic argument because most of us buy top quality tripods
regardless and get excellent performance. But as we backpacker types start fishing
around for lighter and lighter gear, or as less expensive options start showing up
in the ads, it's good to at least know the tradeoffs.

cyrus

7-Oct-2011, 12:23

I don't think the idea that wood absorbs resonance was ever really established, or that even if it does, it would make any practical difference in a photo. The thing that makes a tripod stable is primarily its weight and the distribution of this weight. The more weight closer to the ground and with wider legs spread, the more stable. Wood, metal, CF, whatever.

Peter De Smidt

7-Oct-2011, 12:24

Professional survey tripods can be wood, fiberglass covered wood, carbon fiber....

I'm not claiming that different materials don't have different vibrational characteristics, but what I am claiming is that good tripods can be made using the different materials mentioned. As I said before, I have at least one of each. I've tested my two largest, a wood and a metal one, with a large telescope. The wooden tripod has slightly less vibration as seen with pictures taken through the telescope than the Gitzo aluminum model, but the wooden tripod weighs twice as much, if not more. Technically, the resonance characteristics of the whole system, camera, extension, head, legs, base material....matter.

GPS

7-Oct-2011, 12:37

Vibrations in tripods were mostly considered in studio photography where people were walking or where there were vibrations from street traffic going through the building. But then the remedy more than wooden tripods were the heavy weight studio tripods where vibrations were eliminated by the greater tripod mass. And again - if the vibrations come from the camera (its shutter) then it is the tripod head that is more important than the tripod material (the vibrations start in the camera, not under the tripod).

Roger Cole

7-Oct-2011, 12:37

I have and use an aluminum Manfrotto (actually Bogen back when I bought it) because that's what I had for 35mm and it was and is big enough and sturdy enough for my Technika III.

But I suspect wood (and maybe CF) to be superior in vibration damping to hollow aluminum. Tap the leg of my tripod with a fingernail - piiiiinnnnngggg. Tap a wooden tripod leg - thunk. I've never had a problem with this, but then again this 8 pound plus tripod is probably more than adequate for my 5.5 or 6 lb or so camera.

Besides, if I ever get tired of using it for a tripod I can cut a wind hole in it and play it for a flute.

GPS

7-Oct-2011, 12:40

I totally disagree with the notion that vibration and material composition are unrelated.
...

Not that I couldn't sleep without it but - where did you find that notion you disagree with???

Drew Wiley

7-Oct-2011, 12:42

Wrong again. I can sell you a very expensive great-big German-made aluminum survey
tripod and it will not perform as well as a cheaper wooden one. Everyone in the profession knows this. Fiberglass is also inferior, though wooden tripods are often
fiberglass-clad for moisture resistance. What often confuses photographers per se, however, is that they throw away all of this distinction by vibrations induced in a
tripod head itself. That's way I don't use em, at least for anything large like an 8x10
folder. But I'm sure a certain crowd will want to pull out their little calcultors or consult
with some ivory-tower website and try to argue all this without having the relevant
experience. Fine. I know building engineers who do the same thing, but have never
actually built anything in their whole lives. Once a serious earthquake comes along,
the truth comes out.

Peter De Smidt

7-Oct-2011, 12:47

Some aluminum tripods ring like bells, other don't. I've seen crappy wooden tripods, and I've seen really good ones. The metal field cameras I've owned have been less susceptible to vibrations than the wooden field cameras I've owned, but my big wooden Century portrait camera is the sturdiest I have, and also the heaviest, bulkiest....

GPS

7-Oct-2011, 12:57

...
But I suspect wood (and maybe CF) to be superior in vibration damping to hollow aluminum. Tap the leg of my tripod with a fingernail - piiiiinnnnngggg. Tap a wooden tripod leg - thunk. I've never had a problem with this, but then again this 8 pound plus tripod is probably more than adequate for my 5.5 or 6 lb or so camera.

...

Roger, although I agree with you, it has been found that woodpeckers don't tap on metal tripods - they go for the wood...

Drew Wiley

7-Oct-2011, 13:42

Got nothin to do with me trying to be an expert. It's been the consensus is several
diverse trades for a long time. Ries hasn't been in business ever since the 1920's
for a reason; and people certainly knew how to fabricate steel and aluminum back
then too.

Drew Wiley

7-Oct-2011, 13:46

Sorry about all my typo double negatives - one gets the point. And those damn woodpeckers will tap on aluminum. I grew up in a redwood house with an aluminum roof
and it was certainly obviously from the sounds what those guys were working on. The
funniest ones would fly to the crest of the corrugated alum roof on the school gym
and see an uncaulked spot in the joint and drop an acorn in there. You'd hear it rattle
clear down the sides until it fell down onto the floor when you were playing basketball.

Heroique

7-Oct-2011, 13:51

I totally disagree with the notion that vibration and material composition are unrelated.

Here ya go, Drew:

“I totally agree with the notion that vibration and material composition are related.”

;^)

-----
In many, many (most?) cases, excellent technique trumps an expensive tripod.

If one’s objectives & set-up conditions call, say, only for more mass, a cheap tripod might be the best choice for the shot. Other shots might clearly benefit from expensive tripod materials & expensive tripod designs – (i.e., the other two chief variables) – with mass playing an insignificant role. [Source: personal field notes]

Drew Wiley

7-Oct-2011, 15:30

Oh I do miss waking up to the antics of those woodpeckers up in the hills. A lot of
buildings had metal roofs due to forest fire risk, but were otherwise built of decay
resistant cedar or redwood lumber. The woodpeckers were such a nuisance that the
local high school at one point had a guy on staff full-time walking around with a .22.
These were acorn woopeckers. Across the river the Lewis woodpeckers were even worse, and there was an abandoned cedar miner's cabin so peppered with holes that
it attracted postcard photographers from all over, until it finally fell completely apart.
And yeah, I've seen those damn birds eyeing my tripod too.

Jim Rice

7-Oct-2011, 18:02

When I had my C-1 (green monster) I used it with a J-100 Ries. The J is for junior. Never even had to think about it. 'nuff said...

jayabbas

7-Oct-2011, 19:32

Wood is good !! Wood looks great. Wood insulates and isolates. Wood, like an AK never jams. Wood is like an old trusted friend -- never lets you down. When in the sticks I use sticks. In the city - you guessed, sticks. Some thoughts on wood tripods - go wood.

toyotadesigner

10-Oct-2011, 07:32

If you want the ultimate tripod, go for the Berlebach. Read this test if you want to actually see how a wooden tripod absorbs vibrations (it is in German, but the images of the laserpointer speak for themselves):

http://www.berlebach.de/anleitungen/49.pdf

cyrus

10-Oct-2011, 08:03

I have a day job which largely consists of shooting holes in stuff like this. I don't read German but aside from the fact that this seens to be a manufacturers self-conducted report, the laser pointer chart for the Berlebach Report 2022 seems identical (or, even less prone to movement) to the Giotto MT 8170 which is a carbon fiber tripod. Anyway, there's a logical fallacy suggested in these charts, even if we assume that they show superior performance of wooden tripods: Because wooden tripods show tighter laser pointer charts is not necessary BECAUSE they're wooden. Correlation is not causation. What were the cirumstances of the tests? How many tests were done? On how many tripods? What was the variation between different copies of the same tripod model? What was the effect of weight differences? How far were the legs splayed? How are the tripod weights distributed (higher or lower?) etc etc. We'd need all that info to take these charts seriously.
Oh, and lets not forget the dampening effect of the rubber feet. All the tested tripods had the same rubber feet, right?

toyotadesigner

10-Oct-2011, 08:14

The test had been conducted by LFI - Leica Fotografie International, not Berlebach. If you could read German, you'd know the exact specs for the tests. From the graphic on page 34 of this article you should understand how they conducted the test.

Anyway, there is more stuff on the Berlebach site.

BAS Test Labs and Technical University of Dresden, Germany have conducted some additional tests as well.

http://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=produkte&information=6&sprache=english

http://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=produkte&information=6

Maybe I should mention that I am not married to the Berlebach company...

David R Munson

10-Oct-2011, 08:30

Once upon a time I had an old Ries A-series tripod with a J250 head on it. It remains one of the pieces of equipment I most regret selling, though once I had to part ways with the 8x10 it didn't make any sense to keep. It was simple, robust, a joy to use and to look at. There was a distinct quality to it, something significant that permeated the whole thing. It had a presence. Plus, I could use it as a stool when I felt like it. In time, I will own another.

10-Oct-2011, 08:31

For a material comparison, here's a hands-on example. Remember back when you used a softball/baseball bat. Aluminum and Wood are the common options, sorta like a tripod.

Vibration is caused by the ball meeting the bat surface. The construction material is the smallest factor among many in terms of vibration in this case. The biggest factors regarding vibration are where the ball touched the bat, and where the hands (sensors) were. If the ball and bat meet closer to the hand than the tip, the vibrations are pretty seriously sensed with either wood or aluminum. If the hands are choked up too far (to increase the tangential acceleration for a given swing force), the vibration will also be harsher.

In this example, the source of the vibration, position of the vibration, where it is transferred to (hands, bat, and ball), far outweight the actual material used.

As far as resonance, different materials AND SIZES resonate at different frequencies, and what vibrates one tripod with resonance, may not vibrate another, because of frequency, extension of the tripod, etc... A simple experiment with resonance, only changing the tripod as the changed variable, won't produce meaningful real world results. The tacoma bridge reference is relevant to the discussion, but not terribly meaningful.

Brian Ellis

10-Oct-2011, 08:48

I totally disagree with the notion that vibration and material composition are unrelated.
There's a reason real surveyors use heavy wooden tripods. . . .

Does that mean I need to check the survey done for my home to make sure the surveyor didn't get the boundary lines wrong because he or she used something other than a heavy wooden tripod? Do title companies know about this possible problem with non-wood tripods? Will they start adding a new exception, something along the lines of "we insure your title to the lands described herein unless your surveyor used an aluminum tripod?"

Drew Wiley

10-Oct-2011, 09:09

No Brian ... the dude just won't get hired in the first place if he doesn't know the
difference. You don't show up at the OK Corral with a BB gun!

Drew Wiley

10-Oct-2011, 09:16

So Brian, on a little more serious note, arond here they have a lot of what are called
sliders, meaning lots that slowly move downhill, so that the lot at the top steadily
gets bigger, and the one on the bottom of the hill gradually gets scrunched smaller
and smaller. I like over a tongue of granite, so it's not an issue to me, but just a few
blocks away it's truly a field day for the lawyers, with one property owner suing others,
a downill city suing an uphill one, insurance companies after each other etc. This is an
example of why garden-variety of survey equip is no going to make the cut. To do
anything which will stand up under scrutiny, they need to make long-distance measurements very accurately to known reference points. So in this case (and there
are thousands of properties potentially involved) a damn heavy old-time wooden tripod
versus something which vibrates in our incessant coastal wind is just common sense.

cyrus

10-Oct-2011, 12:18

For a material comparison, here's a hands-on example. Remember back when you used a softball/baseball bat. Aluminum and Wood are the common options, sorta like a tripod.
.

And no one uses their tripod to whack balls with ... or at least I don't think they do. Seriously, is this resonance vibration a real issue? Has anyone looked at one of their negatives and spotted a resonance vibration problem? It reminds me of a neighbor who sucked on 2-4 large cancer-causing cigars daily but was also constructing a fallout shelter in his backyard in the hopes of surviving the unlikely event of a nuclear attack. Tripod resonance would probably be my absolutely last concern.

Drew Wiley

10-Oct-2011, 12:41

Just depends Cyrus. Like yesterday setting up for travel with my Norma with probable use at very long expected rail extensions. I line up my various tripods on the cement patio and set the camera on each sucessively at max extension. Obviously the biggest
Ries with the most mass dampened best. But the medium wt Ries will probably be adequate; the Gitzo CF Gitzo inadequate, though it might be perfectly OK at more
ordinary extensions. Harmonic vibration and wind is a subject which can be beat to death if you want to do the math. In the real world it can be the difference between
a surveyor doing his job or losing his career outright. Survey crews do use quite a few
relatively economical aluminum tripods for secondary applications; but when legal
property lines are involved and they need to reference an official benchmark sometimes
miles away, compromises would be unthinkable. Personally, I almost never duplicate
a shot. 8x10 color film in particular is just too expensive to waste. I already make
enough mistakes. Once had a big Compur shutter where you could feel the harmonic
vibration just by placing a fingernail on the metal tripod legs. In a critical enlargement
this would have made the difference.

cyrus

10-Oct-2011, 14:33

Well Drew I'll take your word for it but I'm skeptical that 1- harmonic vibration is really a problem and 2- wooden tripods deal with it differently, because they're wood (not just because they may just be heavier) Anyway I have wooden tripods so why am I complaining? :)

10-Oct-2011, 14:49

And no one uses their tripod to whack balls with ... or at least I don't think they do. Seriously, is this resonance vibration a real issue? Has anyone looked at one of their negatives and spotted a resonance vibration problem? It reminds me of a neighbor who sucked on 2-4 large cancer-causing cigars daily but was also constructing a fallout shelter in his backyard in the hopes of surviving the unlikely event of a nuclear attack. Tripod resonance would probably be my absolutely last concern.

No, I don't worry about resonance either. I take photos and enjoy it. Physics is fun though, and physics involves photography.

If you did notice resonance though, theoretically, adjusting your tripod to be an inch taller or lower would eliminate the resonance (and the tripod would be subject to a different resonance). Resonance would also increase vibration to the max amount allowed by the material (not dampened amount) and energy input. This would be a lot more than simply transmitted vibration from a shutter or something.

Another comparison where vibration and stillness would be real important is firearms such as target and sniper rifles. Lots of good rifles have wood stocks and many have metal stocks (such as Barrett's). I don't think resonance is a serious concern. Many target rifles have composite stocks now too.

GPS

10-Oct-2011, 15:18

No, I don't worry about resonance either. I take photos and enjoy it. Physics is fun though, and physics involves photography.

...

You do well not to worry about it. But as I remember once upon a time the same topic created almost a war on this forum. It seems that tripod resonance can resonate a lot in some heads...

Drew Wiley

10-Oct-2011, 15:38

Probably we large-format photographers don't think about these nuances because we
buy solid tripods in the first place, and because our lenses generally have leaf shutters.
Harmonic vibration is a much bigger problem with the medium format SLR and ultra
telephoto 35mm crowd, and their temptation to use underweight tripods and unrealisticly cute little gimpy ballheads. But I just have to ask, what would a Stradivarius violin be worth today if it had been made out of aluminum?

GPS

10-Oct-2011, 15:49

Forget Stradivarius, Tacoma bridge and harmonic vibrations. If the shutter vibrates the camera only a bad tripod head or bad camera rigidity can influence the picture. If both of these elements are good the tripod will not be vibrated by the shutter. Unless woodpeckers come to play piano.

Drew Wiley

10-Oct-2011, 16:10

I'm sure a woopecker could play a piano better than me with these carpal tunnel
computer hands. They also sing better. But one practical application of this diatribe
is that I do sometimes travel with both a view camera and a MF slr with long lenses,
useful for sudden potshots of distant scenes, especially in bad weather. So it's nice
to be able to use the same tripod for both cameras without worries about whatever.

Steve M Hostetter

10-Oct-2011, 16:56

I'd say If you want better stability you need more weight in any material..

I think the type of wood would also help so I think the perfect combo would be an Ebony camera on a cobalt head attached to ebony wood legs

If you wanna be realistic watch for a good used CF tripod and buy it!

Drew Wiley

11-Oct-2011, 14:06

I'm thinking whether to replace my old ice axe shaft with ash for authenticity, with maple to match my Ries, or with something dark to match my Ebony camera. Of course
if I'm doing anything serious on ice, I'll be taking my more modern fiberglass-handle axe
along. I had a bit of harmonic vibration myself when my old ash handle finally snapped
and sent me for a joyride.

Alan Gales

11-Oct-2011, 20:44

It's hard to beat a Ries. I own two of them. You can buy lighter weight tripods and you can buy cheaper tripods but if you want the best, it's hard to beat a Ries.

John Kasaian

11-Oct-2011, 21:35

Ries are chick magnets. Team 'em up with a 'dorff and you'll soon have the entire swedish bikini team as your assistants. This much is true! ;)

Alan Gales

11-Oct-2011, 22:44

Thanks for the quick response. I have a Tachihara 4x5. I like the ries but they are out of my price range. To me it looks like I can get into a Berlebach for under $300 whereas the ries would rum me over $500.

Why are you buying new? I bought both of my Ries tripods off of Ebay at much lower prices than new and both in fantastic condition.

Berlebach's are great. I used to use a second hand one that I bought off of Ebay with my Tachihara. I eventually replaced it with a used Ries. I absolutely love the leg locks on the Ries tripods.

Jeff Dexheimer

12-Oct-2011, 05:42

Why are you buying new? I bought both of my Ries tripods off of Ebay at much lower prices than new and both in fantastic condition.

Berlebach's are great. I used to use a second hand one that I bought off of Ebay with my Tachihara. I eventually replaced it with a used Ries. I absolutely love the leg locks on the Ries tripods.

ATM ebay only has one Ries that I could find and they are asking 350 for it. I have nothing right now save a flimsy, wet noodle from best buy, so $250 for a quality tripod is glorious. Besides from what I hear, people that have Berlebach tripods are generally happy with them. I'll let you know tomorrow after it gets to me.

Fred L

12-Oct-2011, 06:16

I absolutely love the leg locks on the Ries tripods.
Ditto this and the reason why I sold my Berlebach to get a Ries. Yeah it's heavier but feels much more solid imo. The two way heads are dead simple to use and I like them better than ball heads for LF work.

If it's still for sale, I'd suggest emailing john sanderson about the Ries he has for sale here.

Bob Salomon

12-Oct-2011, 06:26

Ditto this and the reason why I sold my Berlebach to get a Ries. Yeah it's heavier but feels much more solid imo. The two way heads are dead simple to use and I like them better than ball heads for LF work.

If it's still for sale, I'd suggest emailing john sanderson about the Ries he has for sale here.

We still have too much confusion about Berlebach.

You apparently had the Berlebach Report series. That is much lighter then the Berlebach UNI series.
A UNI series tripod, without head, weighs between 9.3 Lb and 19.6 Lb, depending on the model.
A Report series tripod weighs between 4 Lb and 8.6 Lb depending on the model chosen, also less head.

A Ries may not be lighter then a Berlebach, it simply depends on which you are comparing to what.

The most common Berlebach tripods sold in the USA are the Report series but we do sell the UNI series as well. So they are not uncommon. And at PMA in Jan. both series will be on display. At PHOTOPLUS in NYC this month only the Report will be shown.

R Mann

12-Oct-2011, 06:43

It's hard to beat a Ries. I own two of them. You can buy lighter weight tripods and you can buy cheaper tripods but if you want the best, it's hard to beat a Ries.

Another vote for Ries over Berlebach.

I have owned both brands and they both are good solid tripods. But, I did not like the preset leg angles on the Report series and the lack of a leg angle lock when you didn't use one of the preset angle stops. On the Ries you can place the legs in any position you want and lock them there quickly. The only reason I can think of to prefer a Berlebach would be if you didn't want to use a head, their built in leveling ball is a nice feature.

Fred L

12-Oct-2011, 07:01

You apparently had the Berlebach Report series. That is much lighter then the Berlebach UNI series.

The Uni series wasn't available when I bought my Report tripod and not sure it's currently available in Canada unless it's a special order item. There are many who love their Berlebachs and indeed I enjoyed using mine until I became familiar with Ries and their leg locks.

You cant go wrong with either and each will have features that the other won't. For me, the leg locks were more important than the levelling head/ball. ymmv

Bob Salomon

12-Oct-2011, 11:18

Another vote for Ries over Berlebach.

I have owned both brands and they both are good solid tripods. But, I did not like the preset leg angles on the Report series and the lack of a leg angle lock when you didn't use one of the preset angle stops. On the Ries you can place the legs in any position you want and lock them there quickly. The only reason I can think of to prefer a Berlebach would be if you didn't want to use a head, their built in leveling ball is a nice feature.

Again, Berlebach tripods have hooks on the back of the legs to hold leg angles wherever you want them by connecting a chain or twine to hold the legs at the desired angle. Additionally some Berleebach tripods are equipped with pre-set angle adjustments. These versions still have the hooks as well.

john biskupski

12-Oct-2011, 12:36

Another consideration, in addition to a tripod's dampening characteristics, are said to be the anti-rotational properties of twin-shank construction tripods like Ries, Berlebach and Linhof, which are pertinent to LF cameras with bellows extensions in the field. Gitzo also makes a big thing for its CF tripods about anti-rotational construction of its legs.

In terms of use, big Gitzo CF tripods like the 1325 and 1580 are very rigid indeed, more so than a Berlebach Report series, but not more so than a Ries A in my experience, but the Ries A is considerable heavier.

Bob Salomon

12-Oct-2011, 13:30

ki6mf

12-Oct-2011, 19:04

I have a Berlebach used it on Cambo and Shen Hao for 5 years now. Got the two leg version half the cost appx of a Reis. works great. No complaints.

Jeff Dexheimer

13-Oct-2011, 18:28

It came today. It's big and heavy (7 lbs exact) but it looks as good as my camera and it is sturdy as an tree (pun intended). So far I love the thing. I don't think I am going to miss having a ball head either. The rotation and tilt this offers is more than plenty for what I do.

Fred L

13-Oct-2011, 18:56

did you get the Ries posted here ?

Jeff Dexheimer

13-Oct-2011, 19:07

Got the Berlebach. I looked on ebay for a Ries, but there was only one at $350 when I looked so I ended up buy the berlebach for $250. Used it today and so far so good.

Fred L

13-Oct-2011, 19:11

Enjoy the Berlebach !

George E. Sheils

28-Oct-2011, 11:52

Got the Berlebach. I looked on ebay for a Ries, but there was only one at $350 when I looked so I ended up buy the berlebach for $250. Used it today and so far so good.

I have the Berlebach 3032 in a beautiful Nut Brown colour.

It's a fantastic tripod IMO.

Enjoy it !:)

gnuyork

31-Oct-2011, 13:49

I have a Berlebach and it's great. I also don't have a head with it, but I find f I did it I would have a more flexibility. Sometimes I would want to photograph something on the ground, and it's not quite easy without a head. For shoots like that I have a used Tilt-all that also works great.

Pawlowski6132

31-Oct-2011, 18:35

Robert Opheim

30-Dec-2011, 18:45

I experienced tripod / large format camera movement that showed up in negitives when I was enlarging them. I found that I had a weak undersized gitzo head and the movement was located at the head ( a series #2 head with series #3 legs). Also I found that movement occured when the central column was used on my Gitzo tripod. My Gitzo #4 series legs can easily hold either my technikardan or my C-1 Calumet monster 8x10 (with a series #5 Head). I also have an old Professional Junior wood tripod that will hold either camera equally as well. As to wood or metal vibration due to wind - I have tried bungee chords at mid-point of the tripod legs as a vibration dampeners. I do think wood has a little less vibration issues than aluminum
legs - but the tripod head and single column cantilever - have been my worst devels.....

Curt

31-Dec-2011, 01:48

I have a Mamiya aluminum tripod with center support, a Gitzo Studex with a No5 head, a Berlebach 8032 with a Bogen 3047 and some others.

The Gitzo will hold about anything. The Mamiya will hold everything I have even though it was modeled for the medium format line. The Berlebach will hold all but my Calumet C1.

I happened to like it, I could have a Ries tripod if I wanted but the Berlebach is just fine. I like the wood tripods but metal is fine too.

Brett Weston used a metal tripod and used it with the center colomn raised up. His photographs are stunning in quality so using it wasn't a detrement to his work.

meerkat

1-Jan-2012, 04:07

Harmonic vibration and wind is a subject which can be beat to death if you want to do the math. In the real world it can be the difference between a surveyor doing his job or losing his career outright. Survey crews do use quite a few relatively economical aluminum tripods for secondary applications; but when legal property lines are involved and they need to reference an official benchmark sometimes miles away, compromises would be unthinkable.

My family has been in the engineering equipment business for decades. Modern tripods (either elevating or surveying) are made from aluminum, composite, fiberglass, wood/fiberglass, and wood. Wood is somewhat of a holdover from the 'old days' of brass and wood materials. However the point of using wood has nothing to do with wind and vibrations. It has to do with expansion and contraction during long set up times. Aluminum tripods are used primarily when set up times are under 2-3 hours because they can expand (in the sun) and contact (as temperatures drop.) Wooden tripods are used for long duration jobs because the heat from the sun (or cooling from temperature and sunlight changes) over time has less of an effect on them. Fiberglass and composite are more flexible and can also change during climatic shifts (e.g., long time setups.)

Modern tripods (Crain, Leica, Dutch Hill, Berger, Northwest, Seco, etc.) are made of aluminum, composite, fiberglass, or wood. But the choice isn't about wind and vibration, it's about contraction and expansion. Surveyors will use multiple tripods of all materials depending on the job's environment. e.g., fiberglass, despite it being flexible, can be trashed around with little damage.

Any good surveyor knows to use an appropriate tripod for the job. But it's the accuracy of aluminum that's an issue (from temperature changes) and not because of wind/resonance/vibration. And as far as photographers are concerned, the issue of materials isn't nearly as vital as it's being made out here (aside from personal choice.) Expansion/contraction isn't really much of a concern in making a photograph, but it is with surveyors using theodolites, etc..

Jim Noel

1-Jan-2012, 09:54

I use nothing but wood. Warmer in winter, cooler in summer, and the very best at dampening vibrations.

John Kasaian

1-Jan-2012, 10:21

I like wood. I like aluminium. I don't like wiggle.

Merg Ross

1-Jan-2012, 11:41

Brett Weston used a metal tripod and used it with the center colomn raised up. His photographs are stunning in quality so using it wasn't a detrement to his work.

True enough, Curt, but only for his medium format work. His companion for large format was most often a Ries with a Baco Sr. head. I have his old Baco head and use it with the 8x10's (C1, Agfa/Ansco).

Have fun in the sand, hope you get some winners!

falth j

1-Jan-2012, 12:01

What the heck?

If you all are so worried about resonance, vibrations, moon phase and sun spots, just follow along AA lines and buy and old two ton woody wagon for a base, make sure it has a wood top, again to stop the vibrations, and secure a wooden post through the roof, floor and into a drilled hole in bedrock, that should make do for the most foolhardy perfectionists...

Brian Ellis

1-Jan-2012, 12:15

My family has been in the engineering equipment business for decades. Modern tripods (either elevating or surveying) are made from aluminum, composite, fiberglass, wood/fiberglass, and wood. Wood is somewhat of a holdover from the 'old days' of brass and wood materials. However the point of using wood has nothing to do with wind and vibrations. It has to do with expansion and contraction during long set up times. Aluminum tripods are used primarily when set up times are under 2-3 hours because they can expand (in the sun) and contact (as temperatures drop.) Wooden tripods are used for long duration jobs because the heat from the sun (or cooling from temperature and sunlight changes) over time has less of an effect on them. Fiberglass and composite are more flexible and can also change during climatic shifts (e.g., long time setups.)

Modern tripods (Crain, Leica, Dutch Hill, Berger, Northwest, Seco, etc.) are made of aluminum, composite, fiberglass, or wood. But the choice isn't about wind and vibration, it's about contraction and expansion. Surveyors will use multiple tripods of all materials depending on the job's environment. e.g., fiberglass, despite it being flexible, can be trashed around with little damage.

Any good surveyor knows to use an appropriate tripod for the job. But it's the accuracy of aluminum that's an issue (from temperature changes) and not because of wind/resonance/vibration. And as far as photographers are concerned, the issue of materials isn't nearly as vital as it's being made out here (aside from personal choice.) Expansion/contraction isn't really much of a concern in making a photograph, but it is with surveyors using theodolites, etc..

Thanks, it's nice to hear from someone who actually knows something about the subject he's discussing.

Without having anything like your knowledge of tripods, and therefore never claiming one material was better than another, it's been my impression that too much was often made of tripod materials for photography. I've used aluminum, wood, and carbon fiber tripods made by Bogen/Manfrotto, Gitzo, Feisol, and Zone VI Studios with 35mm, 6x7, 4x5, 5x7, 8x10, and DSLR cameras. All have done a perfectly acceptable job notwithstanding whatever "harmonic vibrations and wind" or "flute wind singing" I happened to encounter.

Merg Ross

1-Jan-2012, 12:29

Thanks, it's nice to hear from someone who actually knows something about the subject he's discussing.

Without having anything like your knowledge of tripods, and therefore never claiming one material was better than another, it's been my impression that too much was often made of tripod materials for photography. I've used aluminum, wood, and carbon fiber tripods made by Bogen/Manfrotto, Gitzo, Feisol, and Zone VI Studios with 35mm, 6x7, 4x5, 5x7, 8x10, and DSLR cameras. All have done a perfectly acceptable job notwithstanding whatever "harmonic vibrations and wind" or "flute wind singing" I happened to encounter.

That has also been my experience. I think more important than choice of materials, is cosideration of where the tripod will be used. Some are better than others in the sand, for instance.

Heroique

1-Jan-2012, 14:44

Before I splurged on my Ries, I learned a lot from the cheap tripod it replaced. Its limitations made it a good teacher, and it made some of my best images possible. My Ries would have been an unhappy purchase if I didn’t remember what its predecessor taught me about fitting tripod technique to compositional purpose.

jwanerman

4-Jan-2012, 12:48

I think that design and craftsmanship are far more important than materials. I currently use a Linhof Twin Shank tripod that I bought used on Ebay for $ 179. It has been rock solid for my Wisner Traditional 4x5 and my SINAR Norma 4x5, even in the field on uneven surfaces. It even weighs less that the Manfrotto 3033 that it replaced. I was considering a wood tripod, but this one is intelligently designed and sturdy. The legs have a very easy to use cam-lock, far more efficient than flip the flip or twisting locks of other tripods that I examined. I did spend a morning at B&H, and this baby beats them all in my opinion. Good luck and happy shooting.

Brian Ellis

4-Jan-2012, 13:08

Drew Wiley

4-Jan-2012, 13:10

E. von Hoegh

4-Jan-2012, 13:15

Whoever named that tripod certainly wasn't a golfer. I wouldn't even look at a tripod called the "twink shank."

It was likely some ad copywriting wiz kid that named it the twin-shank (certainly not a prison guard). I've used an earlier version of that tripod, and it really is excellent. But - I wouldn't get it near mud or sand.

Vaughn

4-Jan-2012, 13:41

I use nothing but wood. Warmer in winter, cooler in summer, and the very best at dampening vibrations.

True. And I am always taking my 8x10 off the beaten path, and a metal or carbon fiber tripod would have been trashed several times over the way I (mis)use my Ries. Between falls I have taken and using it to ford creeks and as a general climbing tool, it has held up remarkably well.

Now I just took an hour-long exposure the other day -- I had not thought about a metal pod changing in length as it heat or cools! The temps in the redwoods, though are fairly consistent. I do have to watch that a leg does not slowly sink into the ground instead. (This is what ruined many of Edward W's shots in the redwoods.)

Vaughn

Drew Wiley

4-Jan-2012, 14:33

Well I guess we could discuss this as both a "use" and "abuse" thread. My carbon Feisol
supports my 8x10 fine, but I certainly wouldn't abuse the thing. My Ries on the other
hand ... I whack weeds out of the way, clear the scene of sprigs of blackberry, even
slap poison oak off the path with it. Nothing rusts. The legs don't freeze up when
wet like cheap wood or otherwise tripods do. I routinely put both my Ries tripods thru
pure undeserved hell. One leg eventually developed a twist crack. I told them about my
abuse and offered to buy a new leg, but they insisted on sending me a free one. No
copay a wait in line. ... beats health insurance!

Heroique

4-Jan-2012, 16:08

I told Ries about my abuse and offered to buy a new leg, but they insisted on sending me a free one!

One of the best arguments for wood = Ries customer service.

I think they take happy medicine all day, but their knowledgable help makes me think they never get drunk on it.

meerkat

4-Jan-2012, 21:53

Dear Meerkat: I don't know what part of the country you market to, but around here
the wind is nearly incessant on the hills. Nobody uses alum survey tripods except for
very casual work. Large traditional wood tripods provide sheer mass. This give not only
stability but bully weight for plunging those spikes down into the clay muck of trenches. Analagously, sudden gusts of wind have picked up my entire 8x10 along with
my bigger Ries tripod. I can hardly imagine the risk with aluminum, or how numb my
fingers would feel handling it. I do own a couple of carbon tripods too and use them
on longer treks, generally in the summer high country. For snow or beach sand, plus
these hills around here, it's really hard to get away from Ries for sheer reliability. I can't
afford to waste too many 8x10 color shots. Just too expensive!

Location has nothing to do with it. The products are sold nationally and are national brands. The business is located in Southern California (Santa Ana winds) with many Bay Area customers. Aluminum tripods such as Seca can weigh upwards of 16 lbs, a lot more than a Ries. Reis tripods are actually quite light by comparison. The material issues are expansion and contraction and not wind stability. Aluminum and composite tripods also have massive spikes with steppers (as do the wood versions) and are much more robust than a photographer's tripod. Stabilizers (spreaders) are also commonly used during extreme conditions and especially on asphalt where a leg can slowly sink over time with the heat.

Material is primarily out of choice including durability and water exposure (excavation sites, etc.), and most often with a material preference dictated by expansion and contraction issues (the length of set up and use time.) Professional surveyors own more than one (or three, four) tripods.

Bottom line is work with what you personally feel most comfortable using, and what works for you in the field and/or studio. All the current higher end tripods are excellent products, despite the material used. Reis, Gitzo, Cartoni, Vinten.

Jan Becket

15-Mar-2012, 01:56

The vibrations one might be concerned about, aside from the shutter mechanism, are those caused by 30+ mph wind. I used my Ries several years ago in a place w/ high winds and got rock-solid results — with the camera and bellows protected by an umbrella, to minimize the wind. (Actually, the umbrella helped with the rain too.) Not ideal conditions, but the negs (to my surprise) came out just fine.

http://www.janbecket.net/gallery3/Open-Access-951335569/Hawai-i-Island/Kohala/06_C1_3

http://www.janbecket.net/gallery3/Restricted-Access/Kohala/09_C1-2

Ditto on the customer service plugs for Ries. Some of the screws worked loose on the metal collars on my legs two years ago. I sent them to Ries and received a new set of three legs. One of the upper legs developed a crack after that and Ries replaced the entire set up upper legs. How often does that happen these days? Gitzos are great, though, for compact use. Mine fits inside a check-on bag for flights to Europe. Recently I took my Reis to Scotland and had the impression that people saw me as an apparition out of the 19th century ...