New Harman Titan 4x5 pinhole camera [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Kerry L. Thalmann

19-Sep-2011, 21:58

"Designed to be robust, the Harman Titan is built from 'tough plastic' and designed by Mike Walker, a field camera specialist based in North Wales. "

As soon as I saw the photo, I knew Mike Walker had to be involved.

It's also interesting that the available focal lengths are 72mm, 110mm and 150mm. I wonder if it will be possible to adapt the comes to use conventional lenses (72mm Super Angulon XL, 110mm Super Symmar XL and 150mm of your choice) to make it the ultimate 4x5 point-n-shoot camera.

Kerry

cdholden

20-Sep-2011, 03:43

I saw the trade show booth video clip (pushing Harman's direct positive paper) some time back where they were talking about the Harman/Walker collaboration. They talked about making them affordable for mass marketing to schools and amateurs.
I don't think they intended SA/SS XL lenses, but it would be a benefit if they did support them.

Chris

Steve Goldstein

20-Sep-2011, 04:17

Seems to me that if they want them to be "affordable for mass marketing" that they should choose a different price point. North of $200 seems kind of high though I realize they need to amortize the mold costs. I wonder if they'll sell just the "back" without a cone for someone who wants a different focal length...

Greg Lockrey

20-Sep-2011, 05:05

vinny

20-Sep-2011, 05:05

Looks like a hasselblad. I wonder if it has live view and shoots hd video?

GPS

20-Sep-2011, 08:06

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Ilford_launches_5x4in_pinhole_camera_news_309687.html

"A huge amount of interest"? As if those interested in pinhole cameras could not choose from a plethora of them available on the market...
The weak point of the design is the cone - who the heck loves to stock and carry cones with different focal lengths? If made with simple bellows and a locking mechanism the universality of the camera would be much more appealing. After all, a pinhole camera doesn't need such a precise focusing.
Just another pinhole camera on the market then.

Frank Petronio

20-Sep-2011, 08:13

The backs on these cameras are usually bogus, I'll wait and see... I doubt it will have a nice springy Graflock back with a good ground glass but I can hope ;-p

Robert Hughes

20-Sep-2011, 08:32

I doubt that any pinhole camera would boast a ground glass. What good would it serve, unless you're making pinhole shots of the sun?

Frank Petronio

20-Sep-2011, 09:12

Right it's probably just rubber bands or some wedges, a real crackerjack set-up.

dave_whatever

20-Sep-2011, 09:17

There's a video on youtube somewhere of the guy from harman with one of these at a trade show. I don't remember there being any rubber bands.

CantikFotos

20-Sep-2011, 09:32

There's a video on youtube somewhere of the guy from harman with one of these at a trade show. I don't remember there being any rubber bands.

Actually, it looks pretty good.

Jump to the 2:00 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY141C3mQKA

Kirk Gittings

20-Sep-2011, 09:39

I doubt that any pinhole camera would boast a ground glass. What good would it serve, unless you're making pinhole shots of the sun?

How else are going to check the composition. It doesn't have a rangefinder right?

Greg Lockrey

20-Sep-2011, 09:44

How else are going to check the composition. It doesn't have a rangefinder right?

Good pinholers can estimate what the camera sees. It's quite easy if you cut a frame the size of the film format and place it on the front of the camera and place your eye up to the camera back. You don't need any way to tell or make focus as a pinhole depth of field is near infinity.

GPS

20-Sep-2011, 09:52

Good pinholers can estimate what the camera sees. It's quite easy if you cut a frame the size of the film format and place it on the front of the camera an your eye up to the camera back.

That kind of frame viewfinder was used even on some WWII aerial cameras. It is surprisingly precise and the longer the focal length used the more precise it is - which cannot be said about small optical viewfinders... :)

Greg Lockrey

20-Sep-2011, 09:54

"A huge amount of interest"? As if those interested in pinhole cameras could not choose from a plethora of them available on the market...
The weak point of the design is the cone - who the heck loves to stock and carry cones with different focal lengths? If made with simple bellows and a locking mechanism the universality of the camera would be much more appealing. After all, a pinhole camera doesn't need such a precise focusing.
Just another pinhole camera on the market then.

There is an optimum pinhole diameter for the focal length. Running one on a bellows will work but not all focal lengths will be as sharp. Good pinholes are in the $30-50 range and they are designed for a specific focal length. Some are so good you'd swear that they are shot using a lens.

Greg Lockrey

20-Sep-2011, 09:56

That kind of frame viewfinder was used even on some WWII aerial cameras. It is surprisingly precise and the longer the focal length used the more precise it is - which cannot be said about small optical viewfinders... :)

True.... :) ie Speed Graphics

GPS

20-Sep-2011, 10:01

There is an optimum pinhole diameter for the focal length. Running one on a bellows will work but not all focal lengths will be as sharp. Good pinholes are in the $30-50 range and they are designed for a specific focal length. Some are so good you'd swear that they are shot using a lens.

You misunderstood. The bellows would be to use different focal lengths pinholes without the need of cumbersome and costly plastic cones.

Greg Lockrey

20-Sep-2011, 10:11

You misunderstood. The bellows would be to use different focal lengths pinholes without the need of cumbersome and costly plastic cones.

Ok.... I did this very thing with my Speed Graphic. The Zero Image has the three correct lenses on a turret for the three focal lengths plus is also has three zone plates on the same turret for even softer effects and the whole thing weighs less than a pound. It will depend on how much they want for those cones and you could easily lay them inside each other in the bag. If they could be adapted to lenses.... even better!

CantikFotos

20-Sep-2011, 10:22

Ok.... I did this very thing with my Speed Graphic. The Zero Image has the three correct lenses on a turret for the three focal lengths plus is also has three zone plates on the same turret for even softer effects and the whole thing weighs less than a pound. It will depend on how much they want for those cones and you could easily lay them inside each other in the bag. If they could be adapted to lenses.... even better!

Greg, which Zero Image do you have?

Greg Lockrey

20-Sep-2011, 10:31

Greg, which Zero Image do you have?

I have the Deluxe 75B in 4x5. It has 25, 50, and 75 mm focal lengths. Also have a 612F in multiformat 120 film with a focal length of 40mm if I recall and it's #1 of 1000. BTW it made my signature pic.

GPS

20-Sep-2011, 12:48

...
I wonder if it will be possible to adapt the comes to use conventional lenses (72mm Super Angulon XL, 110mm Super Symmar XL and 150mm of your choice) to make it the ultimate 4x5 point-n-shoot camera.

Kerry

I strongly doubt it. It would be too far from the original purpose design, demanding different cones (with different geometry because lenses have a bigger diameter), a mechanism for tuning the infinity FFL and the end would just be a plastic Fotoman poor cousin.
More probably even this plastic phenomenon will go the road of another Walker plastic camera - it is there, that's all...

David Karp

20-Sep-2011, 20:34

I have a Walker plastic camera, and it is outstanding. All the movements I could ever need. Rugged as hell. Rigid as hell too. No problem racked all the way out to use a 450mm Fuji. Outstanding fit and finish. Mike makes a very nice camera.

Really Big Cameras

20-Sep-2011, 20:51

I strongly doubt it. It would be too far from the original purpose design, demanding different cones (with different geometry because lenses have a bigger diameter), a mechanism for tuning the infinity FFL and the end would just be a plastic Fotoman poor cousin.

The rear elements of the 110mm Super Symmar XL and most 150mm lenses are quite small. Picture this ultralight body with something like a 150mm G Glaron mounted on it. Adjusting the FFL could be accomplished with thin "trim rings" between the shutter and cone. Yes, I suppose to would be a cousin to the Fotoman, but at $200, it's a much less expensive cousin.

In my original post, I wasn't necessarily suggesting the manufacturer would make production versions that accept standard lenses, just as a possible DIY project for some of the more industrious, and mechanically skilled, members of the forum.

Kerry

GPS

21-Sep-2011, 09:16

The rear elements of the 110mm Super Symmar XL and most 150mm lenses are quite small. Picture this ultralight body with something like a 150mm G Glaron mounted on it. Adjusting the FFL could be accomplished with thin "trim rings" between the shutter and cone. Yes, I suppose to would be a cousin to the Fotoman, but at $200, it's a much less expensive cousin.

In my original post, I wasn't necessarily suggesting the manufacturer would make production versions that accept standard lenses, just as a possible DIY project for some of the more industrious, and mechanically skilled, members of the forum.

Kerry

As usual, the devil is in the details...:)

GPS

21-Sep-2011, 09:50

The rear elements of the 110mm Super Symmar XL and most 150mm lenses are quite small. Picture this ultralight body with something like a 150mm G Glaron mounted on it. Adjusting the FFL could be accomplished with thin "trim rings" between the shutter and cone. Yes, I suppose to would be a cousin to the Fotoman, but at $200, it's a much less expensive cousin.

...
Kerry

What "this ultralight body" have you on mind? ABS density is about double of that of cherry wood... SF Walker Titan 4x5 camera - not without a reason - weighs 2.9 kg (6.4 lb)!
A wooden pinhole of a similar construction is certainly lighter than this Walker pinhole.
What ABS material means, in Walker's marketing strategy, is "extreme durability". A big deal for a pinhole enthusiast. Or maybe not...:)

dave_whatever

21-Sep-2011, 11:24

What ABS material means, in Walker's marketing strategy, is "extreme durability". A big deal for a pinhole enthusiast. Or maybe not...:)

That could well be the deal sealer if the target market is schools/colleges/universities. I don't think it would take very long for a few clumsy students to totally trash a wooden zeroimage or whatever, whereas I suspect you will be able to knock nails in with the walker offering.

GPS

21-Sep-2011, 11:36

That could well be the deal sealer if the target market is schools/colleges/universities. I don't think it would take very long for a few clumsy students to totally trash a wooden zeroimage or whatever, whereas I suspect you will be able to knock nails in with the walker offering.

It could - if UK colleges/universities students want to knock nails in with their pinholes cameras. Good that somebody thought of their needs...:)

Struan Gray

21-Sep-2011, 12:10

I could see myself using one for ultra-long exposures outdoors. Think month-long pinhole shots and/or solargraphy.

anglophone1

21-Sep-2011, 13:02

I've been thinking about a ZI deluxe but never got round to it.
Mike Walker is great guy who makes good stuff, I like it!

Lachlan 717

21-Sep-2011, 13:22

Anything that brings film (back) to the Masses is a good thing IMO.

Especially if it's Ilford film.

Perhaps some of you should lighten up a little.

anglophone1

21-Sep-2011, 13:47

Anything that brings film (back) to the Masses is a good thing IMO.

Especially if it's Ilford film.

Perhaps some of you should lighten up a little.

Exactly!

GPS

21-Sep-2011, 22:37

Anything that brings film (back) to the Masses is a good thing IMO.

Especially if it's Ilford film.

...

Especially when the camera is made for - Ilford positive paper. The "Masses" will go wild now...:)

Lachlan 717

21-Sep-2011, 22:51

Especially when the camera is made for - Ilford positive paper. The "Masses" will go wild now...:)

I'm not sure whether you looked at the YouTube video; however, if you did, you will have seen a Toyo 4x5 dark slide in situ in the camera.

As such, this is obviously for both film and/or paper.

GPS

22-Sep-2011, 01:00

...
As such, this is obviously for both film and/or paper.

Could that make it the first truly universal pinhole camera - and plastic on the top of it all? :)

John T

22-Sep-2011, 20:02

I played with this camera back in March. It is a very well made, simple camera. Using a bellows would increase the price of the camera, make it more complex to operate and make is less durable.

The camera, as Lachlan 717 mentioned is designed to take a standard 4x5 film holder so it isn't just for paper. On the pre-production version the holder slides in and is held securely. Using a graflok style back would drastically increase the price is isn't necessary for a pinhole. If you sight along the edges of the cone you can estimate the field of view.

Some of you seem to be bashing the camera without any knowledge or hands-on experience with the camera, or don't have an interest in a pinhole camera. Maybe you could lighten up a little. It is a nice little camera for what it is intended. I told Harman that I would hope that it would be around $150, but other than that, it should do well for its intended market

GPS

23-Sep-2011, 01:19

I played with this camera back in March. It is a very well made, simple camera. Using a bellows would increase the price of the camera, make it more complex to operate and make is less durable.
...

Having bellows would not increase the price necessarily. The mould to make the multiform cone dictates the high price of the camera. More complex to operate? Once the given focal length is there it is as simple to operate as the cone version. The durability is what Walker bangs on with his ABS cameras. But that point is quite a moot one. 50 year old Deardorfs is durable enough or not? Graphics cameras from WWII are durable enough or not? Being able to use a camera in extreme conditions is another point of Walker's marketing hype. Hm. A very disputable point too as lenses are the weak point of a camera in this regard. But it is his choice and if he wants to convince the public with these points go ahead. There is a price for that though - the price of the camera, its higher weight etc..

DJG

27-Sep-2011, 09:29

There's a link to a kit with the pinhole camera + film + paper here (http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=75&t=Photo+Accessories+%26+Equipment) on Ilford's website.

Michael Jones

27-Sep-2011, 12:16

Some of you seem to be bashing the camera without any knowledge or hands-on experience with the camera, or don't have an interest in a pinhole camera. Maybe you could lighten up a little.

Amen. Heaven forbid lack of actual knowledge of the product (let alone reality) may stop postings.

Mike

GPS

27-Sep-2011, 12:45

There's a link to a kit with the pinhole camera + film + paper here (http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=75&t=Photo+Accessories+%26+Equipment) on Ilford's website.
DJG,
thanks for the link. There you have it - the traditional Walker marketing of the ABS material on his cameras: "The body is made from injection moulded ABS, finished with a very durable non-slip coating. All fittings are made from stainless steel. This combination of materials makes the camera exceptionally durable and able to withstand extreme natural elements, and rough handling."

Can you tell me, in what situations you need a pinhole camera more durable than the one made of wood? And what "extreme natural elements" he's got in mind when using a pinhole camera? Rain? Cannot be as the film inside doesn't like it, be it in a wooden box or a plastic one. Cold? What's the matter with a wooden box in cold weather?
Now take the rough handling - once the camera is on a tripod or a stump, you cannot handle it at all. Before you put it there, what rough handling do you need to expose it to so that a wooden box would ask for help? You either have it in your backpack or you hold it in your hand - where's the rough handling he talks about?
I just don't see any need for the these material properties he boasts about. You can't be a Robert Capa with a pinhole camera anyway, can you? :)

GabrielSeri

14-Dec-2011, 15:56

These are available to order via badger graphic now.

https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=297

Jan Pedersen

15-Dec-2011, 07:33

Receiving mine today and a little exited about it, never shot pinhole cameras bofore.
Anybody on the forum having anything to show from the Titan yet?

Fred L

15-Dec-2011, 07:42

I will probably get to use one shortly but I expect the images to look exactly like all other pinhole images I've taken, in focus but not tack sharp, as one would expect from a pinhole.

GabrielSeri

15-Dec-2011, 12:27

Jan and Fred, I would and maybe others would really appreciate it if you guys can scan some images and show them on the forum. I am really interested in getting one of these and it would be cool to see images from them. I found one source for images so far on flickr and they look cool but I would like to see more especially from largeformatphotography members.

This is what I found so far on flickr. http://www.flickr.com/groups/1808410@N21/pool/with/6357359991/

Fred L

15-Dec-2011, 12:48

Will do Gabriel.

The camera isn't mine and I already have several 4x5 pinholes so probably won't be buying one. I love the look and feel of my wooden pin cameras (Leonardo and a Lensless) and consider these aesthetics better than ABS tbh.

I think the thing that is overlooked is the direct pos paper. This could change how we shoot some things, if the paper's contrast can be controlled in the field. Imagine doing a project in situ in real time ? This is what gets me excited more than another pinhole camera.

GabrielSeri

15-Dec-2011, 12:55

Hmmm, you're right. That is really interesting and it is overlooked. I think there is a thread on the image sharing forum regarding this Harman direct positive paper. There really is endless posibilities with that in the field.

To me the camera is interesting because I feel that is well built, and hence sharper than other pinhole 4x5 cameras I have seen in the past. Take a look at that link on flickr, especially a guy named Leon who took some excellent images on the titan pinhole.

Fred L

15-Dec-2011, 13:06

I don't believe sharpness has *that much* to do with built quality. I don't see how this camera can be that much sharper than, say, my wooden cameras, brass shim is brass shim (speaking same thickness) and most commercial pin cameras have laser cut pinholes. I would trust actual prints vs Flickr for judging pinhole images.

I should add I'm not a serious pinhole shooter like other members out there but I really do enjoy using them and what they produce, if that's what I'm feeling like.

GabrielSeri

15-Dec-2011, 14:48

You made a strong point Fred, regarding judging from an actual print rather than from the flickr site. I don't know anything about pinholes either, this would be my first one, but it seems sharper online. haha What do I know. Anyway, I would love to see your results from when you use it.

Douglas Henderson

17-Dec-2011, 09:12

For the sake of discussion and comparison, here is a pinhole photograph shot with a Zero 4x5--set to 50mm and the .28mm pinhole (the middle size of three pinhole choices on its rotating aperture wheel). The Zero Deluxe version (shutter assembly) is remarkably compact and reliable. The 50mm arrangement (2 25mm sections) is very pleasingly wide-angle and quite sharp without excessive light fall off. There were a lot of Zero pinhole cameras on Ebay last year about this time and I picked up several for a considerable discount.

The photo is of the Gardner Canyon winding back around Bunsen Peak in Yellowstone NP, not far from Mammoth Hot Springs.

Doug

jon.oman

17-Dec-2011, 09:57

Another example of a 4x5 inch pinhole shot:

http://joman.gophotog.org/photos/pin_barn04.jpg

This was done with my homemade 90mm, 300micron pinhole camera, on Tri-X 320 film.

Here is what my 8x10 and 4x5 cameras look like:

http://www.gophotog.org/allphotos/pinhole/photos/D7F_1565_nef.jpg

Jan Pedersen

18-Dec-2011, 16:23

jon.oman

18-Dec-2011, 17:46

Nice looking cameras Jon and the 4x5 image proves that you did it right.

Does anyone shooting pinhole use filters?
After i received the Harman Titan a few days ago i have taken a few test shots but nothing serious yet.
Today got the idea to glue a 49mm filter adapter ring inside on the flat spot where the pinhole is mounted. Would it matter if the filter is in front or behind the pinhole?
Thanks..

Thanks Jan!

I have heard that you will get dust spots if you use a stationary filter. The standard technique is to use the filter in front of the camera, and move it during the exposure. This prevents the dust from showing up.

Jan Pedersen

18-Dec-2011, 19:48

Good point Jon, i did not think of that but it makes sense since everything is in focus.
Thanks.

Chuck Pere

19-Dec-2011, 06:53

Can you use a Grafmatic holder on this camera?

Jan Pedersen

19-Dec-2011, 07:30

Not sure but post the dimensions and i can check tonight.
The Fuji QL holder will not fit but it should be an easy modification to ad a couple of spacers under the two flaps that holds the film holder in place.

Chuck Pere

20-Dec-2011, 08:27

Looking at a review video I now see that a Grafmatic won't fit without some modifications. The holder just slips in place and the larger Grafmatic is too big for the slot.

20-Dec-2011, 08:52

I've used fuji fp100c in another pinhole camera and with several minute exposure, you get serious reciprocity issues and serious greenish color shift. I wouldn't advise it.

http://new55project.blogspot.com/2010/10/fuji-fp-100c-exposure-reciprocity-and.html

backs this up but without extremely long shutter speed results.

soeren

16-Jan-2012, 07:45

So users of the Harman Titan, Have your excitement cooled or are you as happy with the camera as ever? Is it worth the money?
How is the availability of camera and direct positive paper?
I'm thinking about purchasing some Direct positive paper for use in my 13X18 Sinar Norma.
Will I need 5X7 holders for that size of paper or will it fit in my 13X18cm holders.
In other words same size as the film and/or same problems as filmsize/DDS.
Best regards

Jan Pedersen

16-Jan-2012, 07:58

Exitement not yet cooled but i have not really had a chance to use it for anything serious. I did expose a few sheets of the direct positive paper that came with the camera (Same size as 4x5 film) but that did not turn out well. It will be strictly film use for me. I have a little project in mind that i will try to make on color negative film. (Ektar)
The 5x7 paper will be slightly smaller than 13x18 so you might have problems keeping it fixed in your film holders. Can you cut down 8x10 paper instead?

Paul McMullin

18-Jan-2012, 04:17

The Harman Titan Pinhole camera is now available direct from the manufacturer. Just noticed it on his website as im looking to get a new lens. I tried to get one from a dealer for a young friend and was told there was a long waiting list?
http://www.walkercameras.com/pinhole_cameras.html

In regards to previous discussions about it. It is what it is. I think it looks like a camera and is quite ingenious really when you look at it in detail - I suspect that Universities, colleges etc will be ordering these over a wooden type due to their robustness. Anyway I use a titan SF and have done for 15 years and it still looks like new and it sure gets used and the pinhole is made from the same material enough said.

soeren

22-Jan-2012, 11:05

>SNIP
The 5x7 paper will be slightly smaller than 13x18 so you might have problems keeping it fixed in your film holders. Can you cut down 8x10 paper instead?

Had a look at my Foma 5X7" paper and that paper will fit in my holders so maybe I'll buy some just to try it out. If it won't fit I'll find other use for it.
Loaded some 4X5" holder with EFKE IR 820 today. They are harder to load than my
13X18cm holder, go figure :confused: Looks like I'm in the market for a Harman Titan.

Ron Bose

23-Feb-2012, 12:49

I wonder if a polariod 545i will fit it ???

Jan Pedersen

23-Feb-2012, 13:38

No, the polaroid will not fit on the Harman Titan unfortunately. It was the first thing i tried getting it out of the box. The Fuji QL holder will not either but a small modification can make it work.
The two small plates that holds the film holder in place will need to be raised up a little, can be with shims or a little plate but should be easy to make. making this change will however make the gap to large for a normal film holder.

Ron Bose

24-Feb-2012, 10:27

That's a shame ...

Eric Biggerstaff

12-Sep-2012, 09:20

I am bringing back to life this old thread as I am interested in getting one of these cameras.

Now that it has been around for a bit, of those who own one, what is your impression?

Thanks,
Eric

Brian C. Miller

12-Sep-2012, 10:17

It's a decent light-weight camera. The pinhole itself can be taken off and taped to a lensboard if you want to use it with, say, a film holder that's thicker than a normal holder.

The normal film holder just snaps right in, no problem. If you want to use a roll film back then you'll need to shim it so it stays seated under the clips.

While it's a bit bulky because it doesn't fold up, it's easy to toss it into a backpack and make a couple of exposures during lunch or on the way to the bus. Since the exposure time is like 2 seconds at ISO 100, you'll need a little tripod, or something to keep the camera still.