Cutting a 4x5 film holder slide cover for two panoramic images on one sheet of film?

[l2oBiN]

I have a spare "Lisco REGAL II" holder slide which I would like to adapt/cut to allow for dual panoramic exposures on one film sheet. However, not wanting to make a mistake, I was wondering whether someone who has successfully made such an adapter would be able to outline the exact dimensions that need to be cut?

[dave_whatever]

Exact dimensions depends exactly how much rebate between your two shots the you want, so you'll probably want to cut a little less than half the slide away.

So measure the central line, then think how much rebate you want (personal choice here), half it, then draw a parallel line that distance away from your first line. Cut along this line, then when you reach the end of the image area (mark this in advance on your slide) then just make another cut 90degrees toward the edge. I.e. don't cut right down to the handle, you want as much of the original material as possible still intact in the light trap end.

[l2oBiN]

Thank you Dave. Is there any merit in leaving the front and edge slide borders. That is "punching out a hole/rectangle"? Also what is an appropriate amount of "rebate" I would not want light from either panorama spilling into each other ...?

[Wayne Crider]

I cut mine with the tang at 56mm. The total width of my slide is 106mm. That leaves an approximate image width of 50mm and a border of 6mm which works fine. If you want you can cut a 1 or two mm wider tang. I cut back on the slide to the opening of the hole which gave me 35mm of plastic next to the handle. Don't try to cut out a rectangle. Too thin of a piece of plastic will crack.
One thing I did find out is that the slides are brittle. I got chip out on one end and on 1 face. If I had to do it again I'd probably sandwich it, clamp it and cut it against the guide. You can score it but it's not fast. Cut all the way thru, don't bend it to snap off.
Be careful when inserting it. It's strong enough but depending on your light trap you might get a leak. Alot of older felt gets threadbare. You can use a darkcloth or a small piece over the end. Overall I determined that I'd rather crop the image for all the bs to get 2 panoramic's. Rule the GG with pencil or crop whatever size you want.

[al olson]

. . .
So measure the central line, then think how much rebate you want (personal choice here), half it, then draw a parallel line that distance away from your first line. Cut along this line, then when you reach the end of the image area (mark this in advance on your slide) then just make another cut 90degrees toward the edge. I.e. don't cut right down to the handle, you want as much of the original material as possible still intact in the light trap end.

Much as Dave says. I started out by inserting the slide in the holder so I could draw a pencil line across the slide along the top (open) side of the holder. Then I used a T-square to measure and draw a line down the center of the slide. Cutting was very simple, I used a pair of common household scissors and cut along the lines.

Leaving rebate down the middle was not a concern since want to obtain as much image as possible and I simply crop out any overlap.

I usually insert the half slide so that it covers the bottom of the film. This is for two reasons: 1) Sometimes, if the slide covers the top of the film I have bumped the tripod before making the exposure and the slide has drooped, masking more than I intended. 2) I usually wish to minimize the sky so that it is the top of the film that gets most of the landscape image.

After the first exposure I rotate the back and again insert the slide into the bottom half of the holder.

[I should clarify that the image in my signature line below was not intentionally made as a panoramic, but was cropped after the fact.]

[Vaughn]

Here is a diagram of my 8x10 slide I modified.

I do not think that they made them for 4x5, but I used a metal darkslide for the 8x10 (came out of a x-ray medical holder). I made one out of the traditional material, but it eventually broke in the field. I had not put it in anything for protection, just tossed it in with the holders -- the metal one does not need anything and so takes up little space.

Note that I rounded all the corners to allow for easier insertion. Since I contact print and wish to show the film rebate, I make sure that I have sufficient over-lap. Having enough rise (or fall) to center the lens on the image (or left and right shift for verticals) is nice so that one is using the sweet spot of the lens (especially with lens of minimum coverage).

I will be making a modified darkslide for 11x14 soon -- I have a couple extra 11x14 metal darkslides, The 5.5x14 images will be sweet! (now if I could only carry the 11x14 around like I do the 8x10 -- I have to work on that!)

Vaughn

[l2oBiN]

By the way this DOES NOT WORK, because the light trap gets hung up on the distal internal short edge when you attempt to pull the slide out...

[dwross]

Vaughn,

Could you describe how you make your exposures? I was meaning to ask you last time you were in Newport, but totally forgot. The pano carbon prints you make with the 8"x10" are gorgeous. I can only imagine how they'll look even bigger. Good luck. I finally got my Frankenstein 11x14 together, and now I can't imagine getting it any farther afield than my car can carry it! 11 inches by 14 inches is weirdly larger than 8x10 :).

d

[Vaughn]

I have a gridded GG, so I have a halfway mark on the GG for composing.

I usually compose hort shots on the upper part of the GG (since I am tall), using front rise to center the lens (sweet spot) on the upper 1/4 of the GG (thus centered on the 4x10 I'll be making). I load the film holder, then with the modified darkslide under my armpit, I remove the full darkslide and then install the modified darkslide (DS).

After the exposure, I remove the modified DS, take the full DS from under my armpit and put it in.

Generally I take two exposures of a scene, either the same exposure or with a slightly different one. I usually just flip the camera back 180 degrees and just expose the other half of the negative, but sometimes I will re-compose the second image (in which case I image may or may not flip the camera back the 180 degrees.)

But yes, I have developed negatives where I have a double exposure on one half and blank on the other -- and even a negative where I set up the 4x10 image on the upper half of the GG, but for some reason exposed the bottom half of the GG -- on both shots (I was tired). And somewhere in there I have removed the film holder from the camera with still having just the modified DS in the holder.

Anything new has its learning curve! LOL!

Vaughn

PS -- it does not look like I will be hiking all day with the 11x14 like I do the 8x110...it is a big jump! But I guess I will have to keep an eye out for a used baby jogger or something similar...because I do want to be able to take the 11x14 a distance away from the car! I guess I should have kept the stroller I used to haul the triplets around -- I took that (loaded with boys, not cameras) up creeks, on hiking trails, etc. I could have hauled the 8x10 and the 11x14 on that sucker!

Here is the stroller -- of course after 5 years of everyday use, mine did not look quite so nice!

http://bergdesign.net/triple.htm

[dwross]

Thanks Vaughn (and Al),

Forehead-banging moment! I don't know why I had such a brain block about how it works. I wasn't visualizing either the back rotation or a separate 'exposure darkslide'.
Very clever.

d

ps. I've used a Radio Flyer plastic wagon for quite a while. Works great, but the trail has to be in reasonable shape. A jogging stroller is an excellent idea.

[domaz]

Just brainstorming here but have you thought about using 120 film taped into a 4x5 holder? You could tape a strip of 120 in the center of a film holder and then have an "dark" darkslide with no cuts and a "active" darkslide that is cut in the center to the dimension of the 120 film. You could get just shy of a 6x12 negative that way without the cost and compatability issues (your camera has to have a Graflok etc..) of a 6x12 back.

[Vaughn]

Probably no reason to have a second, modified, darkslide with the 120 film.

Glue in rails to hold the 120 film (like the ones that hold the sheet film in). You might want to insert a spacer to bring the 120 film .003" closer to the lens (120 film is .004" thick, I believe, and sheet film .007" thick). Just a second piece of 120 film might be close enough.

But in the end, sheet film might be easier than cutting 120 film in the dark (especially the way it wants to curl and considering finger prints scratches and dust). But I do have some 100 foot rolls of 70mm film -- stretched out in an 11x14 camera might be fun!

[Michael Batchelor]

I've thought about all this before, and maybe I just don't shoot enough film. But I just consider that a sheet of film is a "generous" sized frame, and then I crop it like crazy in the dark room.

Every sheet of 4x5 has a panoramic view embedded in it as a subset.

[Vaughn]

Michael, while I have done this with 4x5 (cropping to make 7x19 prints), with the larger formats I am contact printing using alt processes and like to have the film rebate showing all around -- so the modified darkslide is great for this.

For enlarging, a 2x5 negative would require its own negative carrier, so that and the relatively low cost of film might make a modified darkslide for 4x5 more hassel that it is worth.

Vaughn

[Michael Batchelor]

Michael, while I have done this with 4x5 (cropping to make 7x19 prints), with the larger formats I am contact printing using alt processes and like to have the film rebate showing all around -- so the modified darkslide is great for this.

For enlarging, a 2x5 negative would require its own negative carrier, so that and the relatively low cost of film might make a modified darkslide for 4x5 more hassel that it is worth.

Vaughn

I do see the point for larger negative sizes. But I've only recently started testing the waters there myself. I have a functional B&J 5x7 and a half-way functional home made 8x10. And some grand schemes and cardboard frame patterns that will one day - if I live long enough or win the lottery - become an 11x14. (Hell, if I win the lottery I'll order a brand new Deardorff.)

But my enlarger is limited to 4x5, so I'm forced to contact print anything larger than that.

[Randy]

Overall I determined that I'd rather crop the image for all the bs to get 2 panoramic's. Rule the GG with pencil or crop whatever size you want.Makes since. I cut down an 8X10 dark slide and used it a couple times with good results but did get confused on one occasion with all the flipping and inserting, and double exposed one shot. Since I am now using 8X10 Xray film, I guess I can afford to just expose the entire sheet and crop.

[Eugen Mezei]

Here is a diagram of my 8x10 slide I modified.

I do not think that they made them for 4x5, but I used a metal darkslide for the 8x10 (came out of a x-ray medical holder).


Are those x-ray holders of any use for our purposes? I see them often at the sellers I buy x-ray film.

[Vaughn]

Yes -- I am using both 8x10 and 11x14 Fidelity "Medical Cassettes". But one must be careful -- there are some that are slightly different -- for example, I saw an 11x14 for sale that had no ridge that locks the holder in the camera back -- and have seen 11x14 holders set-up to hold two 8x10 sheets of film on each side.

[esearing]

It works ok to cut a slide in half - but you have to make sure it goes in straight and isn't at an angle. its much easier to use a 6x9 or 6x12 roll film back with 120 film if your camera can accept it. Chamonix also makes one that is more rigid than using a cut dark slide.