4x5 pricing

[Ronan87]

Ok so I have been doing a lot of reading and theirs something that doesn't add up.

I often see people post cameras they find and how much they paid.

I see posts where people pay ~200 for a crown/graflex and ~500 for a folding woodie (what I want).

I looked locally in Montreal, and respectively they go for $500-700 and around $1200-1400 for the woodie.

I looked on eBay and sellers are asking ridiculous prices which makes me think they do not know what they are selling.

So, where do you guys buy good cameras at reasonable price?

Or is a Zone VI with no lens for $1300 a good price?...

Thank you :)

[Roger Cole]

Ok so I have been doing a lot of reading and theirs something that doesn't add up.

I often see people post cameras they find and how much they paid.

I see posts where people pay ~200 for a crown/graflex and ~500 for a folding woodie (what I want).

I looked locally in Montreal, and respectively they go for $500-700 and around $1200-1400 for the woodie.

I looked on eBay and sellers are asking ridiculous prices which makes me think they do not know what they are selling.

So, where do you guys buy good cameras at reasonable price?

Or is a Zone VI with no lens for $1300 a good price?...

Thank you :)

Buy them on here, on APUG, or on local Craigs Lists.

[Gem Singer]

Keep your eyes on the classified section of this forum. Wooden folding flat bed cameras come up quite often.

Purchase the lens separately.

If the price seems too high, make the seller an offer. You might be surprised.

Be patient.

$1300 for a 4x5 Zone VI body is way out of line.

[Noah A]

Or is a Zone VI with no lens for $1300 a good price?...

Thank you :)

For that price I'd buy a used Technika, but then again I like my cameras to be made from metal instead of matchsticks...

Sorry, I just don't get the fascination with expensive wood field cameras. I understand that not everyone wants to carry a Sinar or Linhof monorail (even though they can be had for pennies on the dollar compared to their original prices and represent an incredible value).

The prices you mentioned sound high, but I don't know much about the used camera market in Montreal. Many ebay sellers from the US will send to Canada, so that might be an option. Better still, many of the sellers on this forum in the Buy and Sell section will also sell to Canada.

I'd start your search right here on the LF forum. I think it sold already, but there was a mint Chamonix right here on this forum this morning listed for $700. There was also a Technika IV on ebay that I just missed out on...it sold with a buy-it-now price of $669.

[Ari]

I've bought most of my stuff here, actually.
Ebay prices are all over the place, and some dealers can afford to sit on a $6000 MT for five years.
I don't know much about Zone VI, but others will chime in.

But why would you choose wood over metal? You're losing out on precision, ruggedness, rigidity and durability.

[Jim Jones]

Some sellers flood ebay with long-running over-priced cameras, hoping a sucker won't do his homework or someone with lots of money and little patience will want it now. There are also some bargains for those who look for items that may be listed in the wrong category or poorly described. Sometimes a camera and lens are cheaper when bought together because many buyers don't want just that combination. Some cameras, like the Burke & James flatbeds that I occasionally use, are quite functional but not as elegant and easy to use as newer cameras. Their prices reflect that. I recently bought a 5x7 B&J flatbed for just under $100 (including shipping) with a Packard shutter and a perhaps useable lens. Another one had an original 4x5 back. Some rainy day I'll piece together the best combination of three of these, and get some of my money back on ebay or make a friend happy with a freebie.

[Roger Cole]

I've bought most of my stuff here, actually.
Ebay prices are all over the place, and some dealers can afford to sit on a $6000 MT for five years.
I don't know much about Zone VI, but others will chime in.

But why would you choose wood over metal? You're losing out on precision, ruggedness, rigidity and durability.

Weight and aesthetics.

Note - I have a metal camera. But I could use a couple pounds less weight and I agree that woodies sure look cool. There are always trade offs though.

[Brian Ellis]

To check ebay prices of items that actually sold look in the completed sales section using different camera brands you've seen listed as the key words. "Buy It Now" prices don't mean much, nor do opening bid prices, if the item never sold.

I think $1,200 for a Zone VI, no lens or other significant accessories, would be a little high. You can check any actual sales of Zone VI cameras on ebay by the above method. I could be wrong but I would have thought something like $700-$800 would be more realistic assuming excellent but not like-new condition.

Places to look besides ebay include the "For Sale" section here, the large format classified ads in www.photo.net, maybe www.fredmiranda.com (they're mostly digital, there may not be any large format stuff there), and of course retail stores such as KEH, MidWest Photo Exchange, Lens & Repro, Ken Mar Camera, et al. All have web sites you can find by googling.

It's odd to me that when someone comes on here looking for a wood field camera somebody often seems to chime in with "you should get a metal camera" or "you should get a monorail." Wood field cameras have been in use since the invention of photography, they didn't disappear when metal cameras came into existence and there's plenty of good reasons to use them. My favorite 4x5 field camera happens to be a metal camera (Linhof Technika) but I've owned about 12 wood field cameras and all were perfectly fine. Some were expensive - Ebony - some were inexpensive - Tachihara and Shen Hao - some were in between - Agfa Ansco, Chamonix.

If you want a wood camera get one, don't let anyone tell you they aren't precise, rugged, or stable enough. A good one is more precise and stable than you'll need 99% of the time and that other 1% would be problematical for any camera. As for durability, there's wood cameras still in use that are 100 years old. Many Deardorffs are 70 or more years old and they're highly coveted on the used market. I never once had to send a wood camera in for repairs. I sent my metal Technikas in for repairs at least 5 times.

[jk0592]

Actually, I find that the best deals appear in this forum. One just has to be patient, and when what you want is FS, there is not a lot of time to decide. So it is better to research and to do the homework beforehand.

[Two23]

But why would you choose wood over metal? You're losing out on precision, ruggedness, rigidity and durability.

Durability? I have an 1880s wooden tailboard camera that's still working fine. It didn't rust away. I have a Shen Hao and a Chamonix. I love the fine walnut in these cameras. The Chamonix has a solid carbon fiber base and seems as rigid as I need it to be. As an outdoor/adventure photographer either of these have been doing the job for me.


Kent in SD

[Kevin Crisp]

Zone VIs can be had in the $600 to $700 range, be patient. Not a bad camera at all. $1200 is more than a little high. A Tachihara is a good starting camera too and costs nowhere near $1200 used.

[Kevin Crisp]

There's a nice Zone VI on that auction site right now, $749 buy it now with free shipping.

[Jay DeFehr]

I may be a heretic, but I've been working with plastics for my cameras and accessories, though I sometimes use wood as a scaffold for my plastic skins. I've always had a thing for engineered materials.

[Frank Petronio]

The problem isn't with new people wanting wood cameras, it's that they're usually starry-eyed and ignorant of the potential of alternatives like metal/monorails. If they don't try a solid camera with full movements at least once then how will they know what they've been missing?

I've owned and used plenty of wood cameras too, and they all have been wobblier and more complex to operate than a comparable metal folder or monorail. But it is a trade-off, a Chamonix or Tachi will be lighter and more compact and perfectly usable. My argument is that saving a couple of pounds or inches isn't worth that trade-off for most photographers.

As for prices, patience and timing are key. A lot of the best gear sits for weeks because of unlucky timing.

[Pawlowski6132]

I've bought most of my stuff here, actually.
Ebay prices are all over the place, and some dealers can afford to sit on a $6000 MT for five years.
I don't know much about Zone VI, but others will chime in.

But why would you choose wood over metal? You're losing out on precision, ruggedness, rigidity and durability.

Why do you think your metal camera is more precise, rugged, etc. than my zone vi/wisner camera? The camera is just sitting on the tripod! It's not a tool or something to ride on.

[Ronan87]

The problem isn't with new people wanting wood cameras, it's that they're usually starry-eyed and ignorant of the potential of alternatives like metal/monorails. If they don't try a solid camera with full movements at least once then how will they know what they've been missing?

I've owned and used plenty of wood cameras too, and they all have been wobblier and more complex to operate than a comparable metal folder or monorail. But it is a trade-off, a Chamonix or Tachi will be lighter and more compact and perfectly usable. My argument is that saving a couple of pounds or inches isn't worth that trade-off for most photographers.

As for prices, patience and timing are key. A lot of the best gear sits for weeks because of unlucky timing.

Iv owned my share of hassy's, Leica's and Nikon gear.

Folded woodie because of the shooting experience and it will look great on our collection (we shoot everything with have btw).


I'll wait to be able to see the sale section then. I should have join sooner (been lurking 2-3 month but only joined recently).

Thanks all!

[I Am Luna]

Wow. Lots of people hating on wood field cameras.
Can we argue about film vs digital next?

[Roger Cole]

Wow. Lots of people hating on wood field cameras.
Can we argue about film vs digital next?

No argument there. Film rocks. :D

[Kuzano]

Weight and aesthetics.

Note - I have a metal camera. But I could use a couple pounds less weight and I agree that woodies sure look cool. There are always trade offs though.

"weight and aesthetics"... pooh

Two considerations that have near the least to do with image quality, lockdown capacity, and rigidity-precision.

However, they are "so pretty".....

[Roger Cole]

"weight and aesthetics"... pooh

Two considerations that have near the least to do with image quality, lockdown capacity, and rigidity-precision.

However, they are "so pretty".....

Um, yes, your point?

There's nothing wrong with buying something because it looks better, and there's even less wrong, as in very much right, with buying something lighter. If it's easier to carry the whole shooting experience is more positive. You might even take it where you wouldn't lug a heavier camera.

Your money, you buy what you like, and I'll do likewise. I won't ridicule your choices but I deserve the same consideration.

If image quality, rigidity and "lockdown precision" were all that mattered we'd all just get the biggest, heaviest (mass is proportional to inertia after all, less likely to be moved by wind or bumps!) 8x10 we could find, put it on a big honkin' studio stand, and haul it around out in the field in a truck...

[Ken Lee]

Implicit in these conversations is the assumption that we have to find only one camera - the right one, the best one, the most portable, affordable, functional, etc: the magic one !

For most people, that one camera doesn't exist - which is why many people have more than one. The same is true of lenses.

Yes, there are probably a few people who use only one camera, only one lens, only one everything - but they are in the minority, if they exist at all. It's not a magic formula for success, just a philosophical approach - and every philosophy has its strengths and weaknesses, and is limited.

[Ronan87]

Implicit in these conversations is the assumption that we have to find only one camera - the right one, the best one, the most portable, affordable, functional, etc.

Tbh any nice 4x5 folding woodie that looks and performs good will do :P

Budget won't allow me to spend more than a couple hundred since I just purchased some Leica items.

:)

[Steve Smith]

I looked on eBay and sellers are asking ridiculous prices which makes me think they do not know what they are selling.

If they are actually selling, then it's not a ridiculous price (unless you meant ridiculously low instead of high).


Why do you think your metal camera is more precise, rugged, etc. than my zone vi/wisner camera? The camera is just sitting on the tripod! It's not a tool or something to ride on.

I agree. You don't need precision when everything is adjustable. As long as it stays in the same place you set it until you open the shutter.


Steve.

[Ronan87]

If they are actually selling, then it's not a ridiculous price (unless you meant ridiculously low instead of high).

Steve.

I meant ridiculously high. I'm pretty sure most aren't selling.

[munz6869]

Wood cameras are fine. I use my Wista for fashion, architecture and random stomping, and it's performed admirably. I enjoy its light weight - and it means I am more likely to take extra lenses up that mountain, etc. Metal cameras are also cool.

Marc!

[ashlee52]

I have gotten many terrific deals on EBay... most typically by buying a camera complete with lenses and accessories. The combinations often sell for well less than the value of the lenses alone. It just takes patience. Craigslist is also a very easy way to find bargains.

[chassis]

IMHO the best prices are as previously mentioned: this site, APUG and craigslist. I wouldn't restrict yourself to your local craigslist. I use allofcraigs.org or allofcraigs.com and have bought some equipment inexpensively from far away places.

Have some patience and you will find what you are looking for. New gear is put up for sale on a daily basis.

[Ronan87]

IMHO the best prices are as previously mentioned: this site, APUG and craigslist. I wouldn't restrict yourself to your local craigslist. I use allofcraigs.org or allofcraigs.com and have bought some equipment inexpensively from far away places.

Have some patience and you will find what you are looking for. New gear is put up for sale on a daily basis.

Interesting, i'll take a look at that!

Thanks.

[Tim k]

Implicit in these conversations is the assumption that we have to find only one camera - the right one, the best one, the most portable, affordable, functional, etc: the magic one !

For most people, that one camera doesn't exist - which is why many people have more than one. The same is true of lenses.

Yes, there are probably a few people who use only one camera, only one lens, only one everything - but they are in the minority, if they exist at all. It's not a magic formula for success, just a philosophical approach - and every philosophy has its strengths and weaknesses, and is limited.

Well said. !!

[Tim k]

A few days ago, a local craigslist deal ended up in a shooting. (like guns, loud noise, and bullets, not film) Kinda makes on-line sound a little better these days.

[John Koehrer]

Patience and the 'bay or CL is good and you can sometimes find good deals. Many cameras like this tend to be more valuable in the collector"s mind.
Judging from some prices they may be out of their mind.
I'me surprised no one's mentioned ShenHao or Chaminoix(sp?) new they'r less $$ than some you may have looked at and several people here are very happy with them.

[Ronan87]

Patience and the 'bay or CL is good and you can sometimes find good deals. Many cameras like this tend to be more valuable in the collector"s mind.
Judging from some prices they may be out of their mind.
I'me surprised no one's mentioned ShenHao or Chaminoix(sp?) new they'r less $$ than some you may have looked at and several people here are very happy with them.

Love Shen Hao, but the prices... ridiculous. Shipping and taxes for a new 4x5 Shen Hao comes just above $1000 :rolleyes: Trying to find a used one at a good price (i found a couple... the seller are asking for more than what they paid for new...).

Chamonix (spl?) i barely see and when i do, again over $1000.

I took a look at APUG, and their search system is total trash. What i did find i liked, but barely.

This forum's classified just open to me, time to browse :D

[mikebarger]

I got a like new Zone VI (series right after Wisner model) for $525 shipped off Ebay. I have a nice Sinar F I bought locally for $175 from a guy that thought he was to old to use it and sold it on a local Craigslist type of forum. He said he had listed it on the forum for just over a year before I spotted it. He was thinking of sending it to one of the local thrift shops.

Oh, I haven't used the Sinar once since getting the Zone VI.

Mike

[Eric Biggerstaff]

The best camera is the one you will use, it doesn't matter what it is made of or what the cost is along as it does what you need it to do.

I have used monorails, and they are great for what they are! Terrific with all the movements and inexpensive these days.

I currently use a 1910 Conley 5X7, it creaks and moans and wobbles and takes wonderful images! As good as I can make them anyway, I don't worry about it, I just learn to use what it offers and not ask more from it than it can provide.

I also use a beautiful Zone IV 4X5 and a great, lightweight Tachihara 4X5, wondeful cameras and again they do all I need them to do!

I have used very expensive metal and wood cameras and they too are great, they were just more than my simple needs dictated. On some the movements were easy and logical, on others I could never get comfortable with them.

In the end the image is what counts. No one will look at an image you make that is good and say "He(she) must have used an old wooden camera, it would have been better with an expensive modern camera!". It just won't happen.

So, set a budget, get good feedback from people you respect, keep your eyes open and search for a deal that fits your need. If the camera you get doesn't feel right to you, then sell it and try another. Chances are, you will have to go through a few to find one that really suits your needs (but then my Tachi was my first and is still a favorite so you never know).

Good luck and have fun.