Another chinese 8x10 camera

[pjotr]

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10234587080
(use google translator)

it is of the nonfolding type, made from metall and costs 1500$.

pjotr

[Juergen Sattler]

Looks like a copy of the Canham DLC - the Chinese did it again.

[MIke Sherck]

Interesting that the website is entirely in Chinese; no nod to western photographers at all. Is the Chinese market for LF so robust that they don't need overseas sales any more?

Note: not complaining, just curious.

Mike

[Oren Grad]

Interesting that the website is entirely in Chinese; no nod to western photographers at all. Is the Chinese market for LF so robust that they don't need overseas sales any more?

Taobao isn't the camera company's website, it's a general business-to-business and business-to-consumer platform aimed exclusively at the Chinese market. We can't conclude anything about the camera manufacturer's ambitions beyond China based solely on the fact that they're showing their merchandise on Taobao.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

It looks like they also make two 4x5 models; one with no rear tilt and one with rear axis tilt. From the photos of the 4x5 models, the brand name appears to be Frica.

Kerry

[William Whitaker]

Sounds like another frica Chinese camera...
;)

[Darin Boville]

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4556690

The Frica looks smaller that I expected.

--Darin

[Frank Petronio]

For all the clout and might of the new China, I'd respect them more if they actually designed something new. I guess their culture doesn't see anything wrong with copying and undercutting an individual's intellectual property but they can kiss my ass.

And when some of clamor to buy one because it's cheaper than a Canham (or Phillips or....) don't come whining to me when your job or retirement is lost. All the "savings" we thought we were getting from buying cheap Chinese crap at Walmart is going to end up costing us many times over with higher taxes, lost jobs, and a shitty future.

Geezum I sound like my Dad.

[Alan Gales]

Frank,

You also sound like me. I have been saying this for years. Now most of our manufacturing jobs are overseas. Donald Trump recently asked, "How can you be anybody if you don't make anything?".

Everyone thinks I'm crazy for not shopping at Walmart. I don't need their anti-union, anti-middle class, anti-minority, anti-women, etc. philosophy. I also don't need their child labor junk!

Alan

[dsphotog]

Interesting that the website is entirely in Chinese; no nod to western photographers at all. Is the Chinese market for LF so robust that they don't need overseas sales any more?

Note: not complaining, just curious.

Mike

OOOPS! I think by accident I clicked on "Buy it now"! Not sure since I can't read any of it.


All of my LF cameras were U.S. made,
Calumet C1, Deardorff, a few Anscos , a Crown & a Super Graphic, a Toyo 45F (Hey it says Omega on it!)

[John Koehrer]

Frank,

You also sound like me. I have been saying this for years. Now most of our manufacturing jobs are overseas. Donald Trump recently asked, "How can you be anybody if you don't make anything?".

Everyone thinks I'm crazy for not shopping at Walmart. I don't need their anti-union, anti-middle class, anti-minority, anti-women, etc. philosophy. I also don't need their child labor junk!

Alan

+1 I haven't shopped at Wally World for at least fifteen years..
Although it's making the family stinking rich the only thing it's done for the US is eliminate far too many small shops.
A manufacturer didn't have to become large if they had a steady demand for a niche product.
In today's market there's very little variety of merchandise in any of the big box stores

[evan clarke]

Out of curiosity, what do all you guys make? Beside photographs..

[dsphotog]

Out of curiosity, what do all you guys make? Beside photographs..
.....CO2 and methane.

[Frank Petronio]

I build Walmarts ;-p

In truth I used to do corporate and advertising photography, then design and advertising, for manufacturing industries, so yes, I have been affected by "globalization". And having worked for foreign clients, it ain't nearly as good....

[evan clarke]

I manufacture pool cues and have been really augered by the Chinese. I'm serious about the question, the reason that the Chinese are doing all the manufacturing is that everybody here wants to sit on their butt in an office and doodle around with data and the like...nobody wants to put in a real day's physical work or get their hands dirty.

[Alan Gales]

Out of curiosity, what do all you guys make? Beside photographs..

I'm a retired Journeyman Union Sheet Metal Worker. I have made and installed ductwork for HVAC systems. Copper and stainless steel gutters, copper, aluminum, and stainless steel flashings, copper crickets, valleys etc. for roofs. I even made a hood scoop for Rusty Wallace's brother's race car.

I have also built home projects out of wood like decks, cabinets, etc. I could go on and on.

[evan clarke]

I'm a retired Journeyman Union Sheet Metal Worker. I have made and installed ductwork for HVAC systems. Copper and stainless steel gutters, copper, aluminum, and stainless steel flashings, copper crickets, valleys etc. for roofs. I even made a hood scoop for Rusty Wallace's brother's race car.

I have also built home projects out of wood like decks, cabinets, etc. I could go on and on.


Need some young guys like you:)

[Alan Gales]

Need some young guys like you:)

Thanks! We need more guys like you too!

[Louis Pacilla]

For all the clout and might of the new China, I'd respect them more if they actually designed something new. I guess their culture doesn't see anything wrong with copying and undercutting an individual's intellectual property but they can kiss my ass.

And when some of clamor to buy one because it's cheaper than a Canham (or Phillips or....) don't come whining to me when your job or retirement is lost. All the "savings" we thought we were getting from buying cheap Chinese crap at Walmart is going to end up costing us many times over with higher taxes, lost jobs, and a shitty future.

Geezum I sound like my Dad.

+2

Could not have said it better brother Frank. So I won't try.

BTW- your Dad,My Dad were right. Bummer:(

[Andrew O'Neill]

Still like the story of the fake Apple stores in China. That's China and the Chinese mentality to be successful. At whatever cost.

[pjotr]

Actually, I can't see where this camera is a direct copy of an existing product.

It seems more to interestingly combine features of different cameras like the Phillips, Canham but also Ebony. Also viewcameras aren't really state of the art technology anyhow.

pjotr

[dsphotog]

It seems strange to tool-up to build a new product for a niche market.

[Ronan87]

Frank,

You also sound like me. I have been saying this for years. Now most of our manufacturing jobs are overseas. Donald Trump recently asked, "How can you be anybody if you don't make anything?".

Everyone thinks I'm crazy for not shopping at Walmart. I don't need their anti-union, anti-middle class, anti-minority, anti-women, etc. philosophy. I also don't need their child labor junk!

Alan

Then enjoy your overpriced 'Made in America' goods. Just don't complain when you pay 3-5x more for the same 'Made in China' goods.

Also, America has been copying European goods for ages, i don't see you guys complaining? Or is hiring mostly European engineers over American one's acceptable too?

You guys should be a bit more thankful and respectful to the Chinese. They are loaning you money to keep your 'economy' afloat.

Edit: I have nothing against America, except maybe the general idiocy that comes from the average Joe. I lived 10 years in NY where my family still runs an energy oriented business where we employ Americans (and others of course). If i made a couple English mistakes, I'm sorry, English is my third language.

[William Whitaker]

...I have nothing against America, except maybe the general idiocy that comes from the average Joe. I lived 10 years in NY where my family still runs an energy oriented business where we employ Americans (and others of course). If i made a couple English mistakes, I'm sorry, English is my third language.

Yeah? Well diplomacy isn't your first language, either.

[Steve Goldstein]

According to my Chinese-born wife, the website is similar to eBay, and uses some sort of escrow service. Her first comment when she walked into the room was "you've got to be careful about this kind of website". And yes, the name of the camera if "frica", which could be Chinglish for "flicker" for all I know.

Now back to the rants ;)

[Frank Petronio]

Well my Chinese made daughter turned out OK but the Chinese used to dispose of their little girls until they realized how valuable they were.

[cdholden]

All of my LF cameras were U.S. made,


How about those lenses?
German, Japanese, another German, another German, a Russian, a few British ones... Hey! There's a Wollensak!

[jack_hui]

This camera has been out for almost one year

http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=783977&pagenumber=69

and the "taobao" website, is actually similar to ebay, but most of the items are "buy it now" instead of auction. The payment system is somehow "better" than paypal. You send the payment to "taobao" instead of the seller, "taobao" will wait for the buyer to comfirm they received the good in good condition and then release the payment to the seller. So the seller can't get the money and go.

If there are any arguement, just like paypal, "taobao" will have followup.

[Alan Gales]

Then enjoy your overpriced 'Made in America' goods. Just don't complain when you pay 3-5x more for the same 'Made in China' goods.

Also, America has been copying European goods for ages, i don't see you guys complaining? Or is hiring mostly European engineers over American one's acceptable too?

You guys should be a bit more thankful and respectful to the Chinese. They are loaning you money to keep your 'economy' afloat.

Edit: I have nothing against America, except maybe the general idiocy that comes from the average Joe. I lived 10 years in NY where my family still runs an energy oriented business where we employ Americans (and others of course). If i made a couple English mistakes, I'm sorry, English is my third language.

I used to buy only American made tools, clothes, etc. and yes I did pay more and no I never complained about it. It was my choice. The problem now is finding American made products and the lack of jobs available.

Everyone copies everyone else. The problem is the Chinese copy an item like Disney, Gucci, Nike etc. and then put the brand name they copied on their items. This is fraud.

I'm not mad at the Chinese for loaning our government money. I'm mad at our government for getting our country in the horrible position it is in. I'm very disillusioned with both political parties and don't care at all for the new Tea Party either. Of course this is getting into politics.

I used to know a fellow named Uri. He was from the Soviet Union. I think Uri had it right when he said that there are good people all over the world. It's just that our governments are all screwed up!

One more thing. The last I looked Europe isn't doing so well either.

[Lachlan 717]

One more thing. The last I looked Europe isn't doing so well either.

Australia is, and I buy Chinese. Go figure.

[Frank Petronio]

And your grandkids will be speaking Chinese.

[Tim k]

Anybody but me think it was funny that the copyright notice was in English?

[morie]

This post may not a scam, but this one is definitely a scam:

http://www.shsydc.com/ProductShow.asp?Id=9110

They are selling Canon 5D MarkIII (not existing in the market!!!) for about US$1,400.

[Michael E]

Chinese products used to be easily recognizable by poor quality in rough cardboard boxes printed with potato stamps. Now the quality is (often) very good. The next step will be creative new products in good quality. Reminds me of the demise of the german photo industry when the japanese came in.

Michael

[goamules]

A couple months ago I bought a Chinese made acoustic guitar to play on a long trip, basically a copy of a 1940s Gibson. The company that made it was Flinthill. After I bought it, (It sounded really nice, and yes, was cheap) I discovered the Chinese factory was shut down because of diverting parts to another factory, where more copies of copies were made. The American owner discovered his parts appearing on another Chinese line. http://theunofficialblueridgeguitarforum18213.yuku.com/reply/42904/The-Saga-of-Flinthill-Recording-King-#reply-42904

Meanwhile, the real Gibson (the great American company that, along with Martin, gave the world the guitars and mandolins we use today) was just raided by the Feds and guitars were confiscated because of the US trying to make foreign wood workers happy. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903895904576542942027859286.html

Globalization will hurt the countries that obey the rules, (US and Euorpe) and help countries that don't. It takes about 1 month to start up production for anything in China. From winning the RFP, to building the tooling, to shipping items out the door. Want to guess how long it takes in America or Europe, with all the environmental impact studies, special rules for tooling, plant design, NIMBY opponents, Union negotiations, etc? Forever. China doesn't worry about all that, they just build and grow. Like we used to. Now we are sinking in our own bureaucracy and special interest groups, and the growing economies are learning to use that against us. How'd you like to be a Gibson employee being laid off because US marshalls are enforcing a Madagascar policy?

[tonkhang]

I own many cameras from 4x5 until 20x24 : Deardorff , Wisner , Zone VI , Ebony , Tachihara ,Canham , Chamonix .
If you want to pay , Chinese people can build the best and the price is cheaper than any western company . You can't find any western company build the same quality and cheaper than Chamonix company and ... I'm living in Canada .

[Ron McElroy]

How'd you like to be a Gibson employee being laid off because US marshalls are enforcing a Madagascar policy?

Everyone is back to work at the Memphis plant,
well not today.
Happy Labor Day

[goamules]

Good Ron, my hyperbole was for effect. But I sold the "other" guitar, and hope to one day get a J-45!

[GPS]

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10234587080
(use google translator)

it is of the nonfolding type, made from metall and costs 1500$.

pjotr

Unfortunately, the pictures do not reveal many details. It looks like a non-folding copy of - Chamonix camera. Gives an impression of being frail and with simplistic control knobs.

[Mark Sawyer]

Chinese products used to be easily recognizable by poor quality in rough cardboard boxes printed with potato stamps. Now the quality is (often) very good...

Sometimes, but they've also recently given the world lead-painted and cadmium-plated children's toys, toxic toothpaste, poison pet food, lethal infant formula, etc. etc. etc.

It's easy to make stuff cheap when a well-paid worker gets a dollar a day, no health care or vacation, there are no environmental, safety, or health regulations, and patent/copyright infringements aren't enforced.

But they do make some nice 99-cent large format lenses!

[pjotr]

Unfortunately, the pictures do not reveal many details. It looks like a non-folding copy of - Chamonix camera. Gives an impression of being frail and with simplistic control knobs.

in the afore mentioned newsgroup (http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=783977&pagenumber=1) you can see some pictures. It looks like a simple design but well made.

Sadly the posted pictures taken with it are rather dull and uninspired, like in so many western photography forums…

pjotr

[goamules]

...Chinese people can build the best and the price is cheaper than any western company . You can't find any western company build the same quality and cheaper than Chamonix company ...

Yep, you cannot. Because of what I said and Mark said above.

[Rod.F]

According to my Chinese-born wife, the website is similar to eBay, and uses some sort of escrow service. Her first comment when she walked into the room was "you've got to be careful about this kind of website". And yes, the name of the camera if "frica", which could be Chinglish for "flicker" for all I know.

Now back to the rants ;)

Chinese don't really have a problem with their l's and r's, that tends to be the Japanese stereotype. "frica" actually seems to mean "friend and camera".

Personally, I think it seems like a nice camera and hope to see more companies in China (or anyway else) getting started in making large format cameras.

[GPS]

in the afore mentioned newsgroup (http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=783977&pagenumber=1) you can see some pictures. It looks like a simple design but well made.

Sadly the posted pictures taken with it are rather dull and uninspired, like in so many western photography forums…

pjotr

Rather short bellows draw. Hard to guess if the standards are more rigid than those on Chamonix cameras or where is the innovation (if any) or the advantage of this metal construction. It seems that these Chinese firms are happy with their products even if not original or innovative. Let them have that.

[MDR]

Let's not forget the chinese gave us paper including Toilet paper, ceramics, noodles, they were the first to comprehend basic chemistry so all in all the chinese gave us more than we gave the chinese people. Up until the 1960s the US received pretty much every aeronautical invention made by the Europeans (England, France, Germany, Austria, etc...) as war reparation. The Bell X1 would never have broken the sound barrier without massive help from the UK, the "cooperation" ended around the time of the Concorde. No country has the monopoly on stealing ideas. Every country is doing it. Just ask Bill Clinton a fan of helping corporate America trough Industrial Espionage.
The camera looks well built and resembles pretty much every LF camera built since the 1980's. The more LF Camera manufacturers the better, and I personaly don't care wether the camera was made in the US, Germany or China as long as the quality is Okay and the workers are treated right (sweatshops exist in every country so does pollution). And instead of blaming the chinese blame corporate Americas/Europes greed after all accordin to ADIDAD the cost of manufacturing products in china is to high and they left for countries

[engl]

Seems like a rather interesting lineup, can't see why they'd be called copies any more than a lot of American/European/Japanese cameras. The metal non-folding 4x5 for wides looks nice, I've been looking for something like that, but I wish it had rear rise to compensate for the limited front fall.

[goamules]

Let's not forget the chinese gave us paper including Toilet paper, ceramics, noodles, they were the first to comprehend basic chemistry so all in all the chinese gave us more than we gave the chinese people. ...

There is a saying over here, "what have you done for me lately." I appreciate that TP and all, but we were talking about modern times, and current idea appropriation. I guess all those cheap GE refrigerators and other American cheap appliances in the 1940s-1970s didn't help anyone as much as TP did.


...Up until the 1960s the US received pretty much every aeronautical invention made by the Europeans (England, France, Germany, Austria, etc...) as war reparation. The Bell X1 would never have broken the sound barrier without massive help from the UK, the "cooperation" ended around the time of the Concorde.

Yeah, after 1945 we played with the V-2 and Me-262. But before 1945 America was building our airplanes just fine. From the Wright Brothers, to the P-51 Mustang, and all in between. And I know personally the SR-71 (fastest aircraft ever built) and the F-117 were the result of good American aeronautics.

Wait, are you saying the UK didn't want to cooperate with the US during and after the war? I think you are wrong, we cooperated very well with our allies. Before, during, and after an "austrian" started causing little problems in the 1930s.


... (sweatshops exist in every country so does pollution). And instead of blaming the chinese blame corporate Americas/Europes greed after all accordin to ADIDAD the cost of manufacturing products in china is to high and they left for countries

Sweatshops were outlawed in the US during the Labour period in the 1910s, and we ended the practice in your country in mid 1945. But I hear workers are still being exploited in other parts of the world. I know I saw some in India and China when I was there a while ago. No, I'd blame human greed. America and Europe don't have a patent on that!

[Frank Petronio]

Let's not forget the chinese gave us paper including Toilet paper, ceramics, noodles, they were the first to comprehend basic chemistry so all in all the chinese gave us more than we gave the chinese people. ...

Just like the Arabic people gave us math and astronomy until their religious leaders confined them to the perpetual dark ages. Any complaints I'm making aren't against individuals but more the region/country's leadership and attitudes towards innovation.

[Ken Lee]

Thread now closed. Religion, politics, etc.