The lens

[graflex45]

hello
I have been thinking about large format for a long time then I was introduced to Sally Mann and other photographers work . I liked it very much so I got myself a Crown Graphic then I realized that it is very limited in movements. I guess I will need another camera but any way. This Crown Graphica had this 127mm Wallensak Raptar lens and I guess is not very good lens for portraits and all around. can anyone sugest one lens around 150mm-210mm for this camera. I do not want a modern lens. I hope to get some old lens . I looked at xenar 180mm in Campur and heliar but heliars are very expensive. is there anything that I'am missing?
Thank you
Alex

[Fotoguy20d]

Try a Wollensak Velostigmat Series II (7" and up). For that matter, a B&L Tessar - the 5x7 Tessar will be a nice length for the camera. The 203mm Ektar is a wonderful lens - if you want a somewhat different look, the 203mm Kodak Anastigmat is the same lens but uncoated. For portraits, the movements of the Crown should be adequate.

Dan

[Two23]

Velostigmat, tessar, Heliar, and the Ektars will all do what you want. for something even older look at rapid rectilinear lenses.


Kent in SD

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Maybe not the best focal length for tight portraits, but if that Rapax shutter is any good you might not want to dismiss the 127mm Wollensak so soon. As may be true of most any Tessar type lens from the press camera era, it's likely to be spectacularly sharp by f/16 to f/22, arguably equal to anything else available at the normal taking apertures for LF.

The biggest challenge with vintage glass might be finding a lens in a shutter that can be nursed back to health. The Wollensak Rapax shutters (same as a Wollensak-made Graphex, incidentally) were relatively simple, quite durable and accurate. They usually can be cleaned & lubed to run consistently. They'll probably time slow on the two highest speeds, but that's going to be true of most 50+ year old shutters.

Compur-mounted lenses, in spite of the shutter being more complicated and not nowadays easily repaired, are more desirable because the lens cells will directly thread into a modern (or new) Copal shutter, with the same cell spacing and only the need for aperture scale calibration. Prontors also share this thread standardization.

Supermatics and Rapax shutters each have lens cells that will directly fit only another shutter of the same brand.

203mm f/7.7 Ektars originally came in Supermatics but later ones were also available in Compurs and Prontors which would be my recommendation if you're intent on something vintage in a longer affordable lens.

(That all said, for a similar amount money you could also buy a modern 210mm plasmat type lens in a Copal shutter in mint condition which might be less than a decade old, which is what I ultimately did.)

[mrladewig]

Compur-mounted lenses, in spite of the shutter being more complicated and not nowadays easily repaired, are more desirable because the lens cells will directly thread into a modern (or new) Copal shutter, with the same cell spacing and only the need for aperture scale calibration. Prontors also share this thread standardization.


Except when a lens is mounted in a Compur #2 shutter. This shutter size does not have a modern equivalent.

That said, it does seem that compur and synchro-compur shutters are very well made, so if it is running, a CLA should return it to health.

Mel-

[dsphotog]

180 or 210 convertible Schneider Symmar lenses (pre apo & S) are under valued, & give a great Sally Mann classic portrait look.
BUT.... Don't expect to use the convertible's longer focal length feature, because that needs a lot more bellows extention than a Crown Graphic can provide.

[rdenney]

This Crown Graphica had this 127mm Wallensak Raptar lens and I guess is not very good lens for portraits and all around.

The first step is to decide what look you want. Do you want a lens that is sharp in the middle but swirly blurry around the middle? Do you want a lens that provides very narrow selective focus? Do you want a lens that provides a vintage look (whatever that is) in the out-of-focus areas?

Lenses come in a wide range of varieties, from lenses intended to make sharp images all over to lenses intended to be soft all over.

The Tessar was intended to be a sharp lens, but when used at wide aperture, will be a bit soft at focus (still reasonably sharp) and with a particular flavor to the out of focus areas. Most of the normal lenses of the vintage of your Crown are tessar designs. At the widest aperture, they are slightly soft in the middle, not particularly contrasty, and they fade in sharpness very smoothly to a quite general blur in the out-of-focus areas. When used at small apertures (f/22 being the start of small for 4x5 and going down from there), they become very sharp, particularly in the center, with good contrast. You might experiment a bit more with your Raptar at the full range of apertures to learn how it renders the scene. The Raptar (and the identical Optar) are actually quite good performers, except perhaps in the extreme corners on 4x5. Many truly classic photographers were made with lenses like these. They are quite similar to Kodak Ektars, which were used on Graphics prior to the Wollensak lenses.

If you want a very sharp lens, look for a Kodak Commercial Ektar or an Ilex-Caltar, in the 8-1/2" focal range. These are also tessar designs, but are more optimized for sharp performance at smaller apertures. They work fine for portraits but are not specifically designed for that purpose.

If you want an intentionally soft lens, then that's when you want to consider a soft-focus lens. I have to stop there--my tastes have never gone that way and I don't keep up with intentionally soft lenses.

Heliars have a swirly rendering of out-of-focus backgrounds that many like. I don't--they make me a bit motion sick. I prefer that vintage tessar look. But they get a high price because of that look.

And then there are the really old designs, including Petzvals, that were designed to be sharp in the center only over the range of apertures. They also have a particular look to the rendering of the unfocused areas. That may be a bit too vintage, considering you are modeling yourself on Sally Mann.

The only thing wrong with your Raptar is that it might be too short. You might look for something in the 7-8" range.

Another classic tessar with a vintage look is an Ilex Paragon f/4.5.

If you are shooting black and white especially, the precision of a modern shutter may not be necessary. In proper order, those old Wollensak and Kodak shutters were design to provide +/- 30% over most of their range.

Modern lenses such as the later Symmars, Sironars, and so on were designed for sharpness, and not all of them are all that pleasing in the way they render backgrounds, at least to me. And they are very contrasty, which works against a vintage look.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that you spend enough more time with the Raptar to be able to be very specific about what it is not doing for you, and to be sure that the weakness you perceive is caused by the lens and not by your novice understanding of it.

Rick "who doesn't know very many lenses that are not sharp enough for a vintage portrait look when used with good technique" Denney

[graflex45]

Thanks for the reply
I realy liked the Aero Ektar but that thing is so radioactive 5ml in hour , I just do not get how does people shot with it?
I grew up 30 km for Chernobil station and I do know what the radiation is.
Sorry for off topic

[Donald Miller]

The largest lens/shutter that I have used in a Crown was a 210 Symmar S. I don't know that you will be able to mount anything larger than a copal one shutter in that lens board.

[Carsten Wolff]

If the 10" Wollensak Tele version is anything as good as my 15" f5.6, which is my main 5x7" portrait lens, I'd go for it, esp. as they can often be had fairly cheap. 10" is a nice focal length for 4x5" portraits. The 15" only needs about 250mm bellows at infinity, but would be too long for your C-G's bellows, however, the 10" should thus need less than 7".

I have the later, coated version and those may well be too "modern" in looks for you, but there are uncoated ones about. Their Alphax shutters are very reliable and uncomplicated as well.

[Fotoguy20d]

The largest lens/shutter that I have used in a Crown was a 210 Symmar S. I don't know that you will be able to mount anything larger than a copal one shutter in that lens board.

You can get an Acme #3 in there or a Compur #2 but its a tight fit. Biggest lens I ever jammed into my Speed is a nearly 3" diameter projection petzval - it just clears the light traps in the front standard.

Dan

[rdenney]

You can get an Acme #3 in there or a Compur #2 but its a tight fit.

I have an Ilex Paragon 8-1/2" f/4.5 mounted on a Pacemaker Speed Graphic. It's in an Ilex No. 4 shutter, and that's probably about as big as a Graphic board can handle. I do have to swing the remote shutter release linkage out of the way. A Copal #3 requires a bigger hole.

Rick "who likes that lens on that camera" Denney

[Carsten Wolff]

Alphax/Betax #4 also just fit, esp. if you saw down the outside of the retaining rings a bit.