ND Filter set vs Fader ND?

[l2oBiN]

Finding the need to extend my exposure at times, I would like to purchase some sort of a Neutral density solution. Since i have invested in a cokin P system, logically the cokin ND filter set comes to mind, however I am unaware of their quality? What are your experiences with these filters?

Alternatively, it might be convenient to just carry a single fader nd? Offcourse it cannot be inserted into the cokin p holder but it might provide a much more convenient way if dialing in the exact needed density? Any comments or experiences with the fader?

[snay1345]

I would just stick with a regular nd set. It drives me crazy using a filter that rotates with my grads and other rectangle filters.

[Bob Salomon]

There are many different qualities to filters. Some ND are more color neutral then others. There are also differences in the neutrality and the strengths available for variable ND filters - what you call a fader. For instance, the Heliopan Vario ND goes from 1 to 6.6 syops (0.3 to 2.0 optical density) while most others start at 0.6 and go to 1.2 or so optical density). Most Variable ND filters are quite fat, 10mm or larger while the Heliopan is only 8.7mm, so it is useable with wider lenses. Most of them rotate 360° continuously but only a small part of that rotation actually creates variable ND. The Heliopan only rotates through the part of the arc that changes ND so it won't turn continuously. The Heliopan has no front threads so it will not cause other filters to rotate since it can only be attached last in the chain.
The Heliopan, for instance, is the equivelent of carrying the following ND filters; 03, 0.6, 0.9, 1.2, 1.5, 1.8 and a 2.0. Seven quality ND filters would be much more expensive and far more cumbersome to carry and find then one simple variable ND and its color is more neutral then Cokin arcylic ND filters.
One last benefit, when you get to heavy ND filters it is far more convenient to focus and compose at a lower value, say at 0.3 ND and then just rotate the filter to the higher density then to try to do that at the higher ND where it is difficult or virtually impossible to see through it at all.

[Jeff Bannow]

Silly question I've been wondering - how do you meter with the variable filter? Is the barrel marked somehow?

[Two23]

Silly question I've been wondering - how do you meter with the variable filter? Is the barrel marked somehow?


I tried one and while it worked out on my Nikon digital camera because I could check the histogram, it seemed to be guess work with my 4x54. I sent it back and got a set of multicoated ND filters.

Kent in SD

[vinny]

The singh-ray vari nd has a number system on the rim to tell you the # of stops being used. By the way, these aren't some sort of magic filter invented by nasa, just a couple polarizers, one circular, one linear.

[Bob Salomon]

Silly question I've been wondering - how do you meter with the variable filter? Is the barrel marked somehow?

The Heliopan Vario ND is calibrated from 1 to 12 and has an index pointer that you can easily sett to the measured density that you want. Since it is hard stopped at each end of the range it is very easy and fast to reset a desired density.

[Juergen Sattler]

The fader vario also has index pointers around the perimeter. It works quite well, but I agree, using it on a LF camera would be a major hassle. Even with my 5D using the Fader getting the exposure right is only possible by using the histogram. Another draw-back is that it does not work with wide angle lenses very well - you get terrible vignetting and mottled exposures. Stick with regular NDs.

[Bob Salomon]

The singh-ray vari nd has a number system on the rim to tell you the # of stops being used. By the way, these aren't some sort of magic filter invented by nasa, just a couple polarizers, one circular, one linear.

No it doesn't, according to their web site it has:
"The small evenly spaced "benchmark" dots you see on the Vari-ND filter ring between the "Min." and "Max." density settings are intended only as reference markings. They are NOT indexed to any specific density ratings nor do they represent calibrated exposure stops. They are useful to help you reset your Vari-ND Filter to a certain density setting you've previously selected."

The Heliopan is indexed and numbered.

Attached is an image of the Singh Ray from their web site showing the dots and an image of the Heliopan showing the numbers.

[Bob Salomon]

The fader vario also has index pointers around the perimeter. It works quite well, but I agree, using it on a LF camera would be a major hassle. Even with my 5D using the Fader getting the exposure right is only possible by using the histogram. Another draw-back is that it does not work with wide angle lenses very well - you get terrible vignetting and mottled exposures. Stick with regular NDs.

The Heliopan does not have those artifacts. Heliopan uses different foils and works with WA lenses down to the 16 to 35L without those artifacts.

[tgtaylor]

When I moved from 35mm to 6x7 back in 2000 I purchased the Cokin P holder and Cokin filters for color transparency films (81 series), B&W, color correction (85 series)...everything except their ND filters which had a reputation of a not so neutral grey. For the latter I purchased the HiTek brand. Excepting the ND's, all the Cokin filters are of excellent quality and a real bargain compared to the other brands.

However with the addition of wide angle lens for my 6x7 camera the P system proved too small. Cokin does have a "slim" holder for the P-sized filters but its drawback is that it will only hold 1 filter at a time so you can't, for example, use a polarizer and a warming or ND filter at the same time.

When I moved into LF ~2004 the time had come to change to a filter system that would work with all of my cameras and lens and purchased the Cokin Z holder and gradually replaced all the P filters with 4x4 Cokins, Lees and HiTeks. Recently I have been replacing all the more important and most used of the filters which for me is the polarizer, UV, and various ND's with 4x4 Schneider glass filters. A benefit of the glass over resin is that the former comes packed in a padded storage case with a micro fiber cloth and remains scratch free. I keep the Z holder in a Lee storage case with a 82mm adaptor ring with the various step-up rings from 49mm upwards attached. The filters themselves are kept in a Lee Filter holder.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd start with the Cokin Z holder instead of the P which will accommodate lens whose front thread does not exceed 82mm. The width of the filter slots on the holder are adjustable allowing you to mount filters of varying thickness. Cokin does make a larger holder, the X, which will accommodate lens with larger front apertures but its size is prohibitive for general packing.

Thomas

[Greg Miller]

Do you really need to dial in a precise ND factor?

Here's what I do. A standard polarizer filter will give you about 2 stops of ND. I carry a Singh-Ray 3 stop ND rectangular filter (I don't use a holder; I just hand hold the filter (as I also do with my Singh-Ray GNDs).

It would be rare that I need to differentiate between 2 and 3 stops of ND. But if I did I can use either the polarizer or the ND filter by themselves. If I need more ND, then I combine two filters for 5 stops of ND.

I carry a polarizer anyway. So for the cost and weight of a single ND, I have a pretty flexible ensemble.

As a side note, I hate messing with filter rings and holders, so I don't carry any. I only carry hard edge GNDs (plus my polarizer). If I need a soft GND, I use a hard GND and just jiggle it up and down slightly during the expose. This means less weight, less expense, and less hassle, and faster to set up and tear down.

[Bob Salomon]

Do you really need to dial in a precise ND factor?

Here's what I do. A standard polarizer filter will give you about 2 stops of ND. I carry a Singh-Ray 3 stop ND rectangular filter (I don't use a holder; I just hand hold the filter (as I also do with my Singh-Ray GNDs).

It would be rare that I need to differentiate between 2 and 3 stops of ND. But if I did I can use either the polarizer or the ND filter by themselves. If I need more ND, then I combine two filters for 5 stops of ND.

I carry a polarizer anyway. So for the cost and weight of a single ND, I have a pretty flexible ensemble.

As a side note, I hate messing with filter rings and holders, so I don't carry any. I only carry hard edge GNDs (plus my polarizer). If I need a soft GND, I use a hard GND and just jiggle it up and down slightly during the expose. This means less weight, less expense, and less hassle, and faster to set up and tear down.

No, you just rotate until you get the amount of density that you want. The exposure meter will tell you what the change in exposure is as you rotate the ring on the filter.

[Greg Miller]

Sorry, Bob. I should have been more clear. I was questioning the OP's idea that a variable ND could provide for dialing in an exact density. I'm thinking in most cases +/- a stop or 2 isn't going to make a meaningful difference in the final image.