Reciprocity Timer 1.0 [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Boinzo

31-Aug-2011, 19:50

SMBooth

1-Sep-2011, 19:44

Been hoping for something like this, will download and give it a try.

jeroldharter

1-Sep-2011, 20:37

It would be useful to know all of the films included.

Boinzo

1-Sep-2011, 20:43

The included films are listed in my post. I am also happy to add new films as the maths comes to hand!

jeroldharter

1-Sep-2011, 20:52

OK. I did not notice that. What I should have said is that I wish it had TMY2!

Boinzo

1-Sep-2011, 22:35

Have you got a chart of times? I can try to calculate a best fit formula for it and add it if you have. If you have some useful data for other films just pm me!

sultanofcognac

2-Sep-2011, 06:20

Just downloaded it – looks very interesting and will put it to the test this weekend ;-)

How about Acros 100 and Efke films?

Good luck in the future and thanks for what looks like a good tool!

David Aimone

2-Sep-2011, 06:56

tmax 100 and 400; Efke 25 and 100; Acros 100 are those I use the most. Looks good.

Steve Goldstein

2-Sep-2011, 09:33

Nice-looking and useful app, well done.

Is there any value in some sort of zoom function on the filter slider to trade less range for finer resolution, like 1/2 or 1/3 stop? I don't use filters that need 9 stops of compensation, but usually use 1-1/3 stop for my polarizer. So maybe the full +-9 stop range in 1-stop steps as now, and a second with +-3 stop range in 1/3 stops???

Light Guru

2-Sep-2011, 11:38

Any chance of adding Velvia 100?

Steve Goldstein

2-Sep-2011, 12:11

Hi Stef,

The times you list in the "Metered Exposure" column differ slightly from those that you'd read off a light meter dial, for example 15sec instead of 16sec. How did you choose the times?

SW Rick

2-Sep-2011, 12:49

I think the "bell" at the end is WAY too loud- the iphone volume doesn't lower it. I'm embarrassed to use it in public. Please either drop it or make it user-controllable.

jeroldharter

2-Sep-2011, 13:00

Does anyone have a table of verified reciprocity times for various films (e.g. TMY2)?

I have not yet downloaded the app because it does not include my primary film. I wonder if it could include user programmable tables that feed the controls/dials on the app?

Boinzo

2-Sep-2011, 15:48

Thanks for all the suggested improvements guys. I will certainly take those suggestions on board and make some changes. You can expect an update soon.
The times I selected for metered exposure were really just arbitrary so I will look at making them more closely match a spot meter.
I'll turn down the bell. Sorry! I'm a bit deaf....:)
I will also look at changing the slider to provide some finer control. I have a lee big-stopper. Hence the 10 stops...
I did want to make it possible to add your table but this is complex and might be a while away.
I will also try to add some more film types while I am doing an update. If anyone has reliable references for formulas I am keen to see them. One issue I have found is that there are many conflicting tables and formulas...
Thanks for the feedback guys and thanks for trying it out. I'll see what I can do to address the suggestions!

jeroldharter

2-Sep-2011, 16:36

I went ahead and downloaded the app. I think it has good potential.

Apart from adding additional films, some additional features might include:

A toggle switch to calibrate the slider in 1/10, 1/3, 1/2, 1 stop increments

A link to tables with filter factors and stops including the math for combining filters

A link to bellows compensation information, and perhaps a second slider for bellows extension adjustments that could be enabled/disabled.

If it had Tmax films plus the above features I would be willing to pay more also.

Allen in Montreal

3-Sep-2011, 07:53

I bought the app too.

What would be a great addition is the development compensation that matches the chosen exposure.
ie: A 12 second metered exposure requires X time and -8% dev. etc.
That would be perfect.

I like Jeroldharter's idea about a bellows extension table.

I think in North America, it has to have T-Max tables to fly, T-max really seems to the number once choice of film here.

I agree the bell is a little loud if you are in a public place. I imagine shooting the interior of a cathedral. :eek:
For now, you can hold the phone so the speaker rests on the tip of your baby finger and it cuts the noise by 80 percent.

Boinzo

4-Sep-2011, 21:44

Hi all. I have submitted an update to the app to Apple for approval. Hopefully it will hit your phones in the next week or so.

I have added a bunch of films - including Kodak TMY, TMX, Velvia 100, and Efke. Among others. The maths for the black and white films is now largely based on the Gainer method as discussed here (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/11566-reciprocity-misbehavior-12.html) (thanks to SMBooth for putting me onto that article).

The Efke calculations are based on adding 1/3 rd of a stop to 10 secs, 1/2 stop to 100 secs and 2/3 of a stop after that.

I also messed with the Ilford math (splitting it out into separate films and using the Gainer method). The returned data for HP5+ is now a very close match to Ilfords published charts.

Please be aware that I don't personally shoot all of these films so I have no way to verify the calculations will result in correct exposure or negative density. If the numbers you get don't meet your real-world experience please send me your data tables and I'll try to make the required adjustments.

I have also added the ability to adjust the slider by 1/3, 1/2 or 1 Stop increments.

I also tamed the loud bell and made sure it adjusts with the volume control as expected.

I like the bellow extension suggestion - but I only shoot wide angle and have never needed to calculate it. If someone can give me a definitive reference I'll look into it.

Thanks again for giving the app a try. And for all the great suggestions. Some of the more complex ones might take a little longer to implement but I have certainly taken them on board.

jeroldharter

4-Sep-2011, 22:09

Those are excellent and quick updates.

For extension factor:

Bellows length squared/focal length squared=exposure factor

Example:

Extension = 300 mm
Focal length = 210 mm
Extension factor = 90000/44100=2.04

So the extension factor is ~2, or 1 stop.

A metered exposure of 1/4 sec would then be 1/2 second.

Boinzo

5-Sep-2011, 03:34

Thx! I have implemented 2 sliders. One for extension and one for focal length. This seems to work well but I am wondering what the highest values should be? I have implemented it with 10mm to 500mm range. Does that seem right?
I can have this feature included in the current release which should then cover off on all the main requests so far.

jeroldharter

5-Sep-2011, 09:26

For large format, 90 - 600 mm should cover. I think Olympus made a 35mm macro for 35mm film.

So 35-600 should cover film based scenarios.

SW Rick

5-Sep-2011, 09:51

Thanks for your prompt action on our suggestions, esp. the bell :) - makes for a better product and happy user base! Will note this in itunes.

Boinzo

5-Sep-2011, 18:07

Hi Again! So I have implemented bellows extension with 2 sliders between 30mm and 600mm as you can see in the screen grab below.

Now - my concern is that the sliders are a bit difficult to adjust accurately over such a large range. Eventually I might push focal length out into a setup page where you enter your and select your lens. But right now I want to get this updated for you guys that have already downloaded it.

My question is - what accuracy do you guys use when measuring this stuff? The sliders would be easier to use if I made them move in 5mm increments (for example). But will this make the accuracy of the exposure calculation unacceptable? I am thinking about making the sliders go 30,35,40,45 etc... in my tests it seems to take a change of around 5mm to change exposure by 1 second on a 10 second exposure.

I am a bit concerned that anyone with big fingers might struggle to set the sliders right where they want them.

Any thoughts?

jeroldharter

5-Sep-2011, 19:24

That looks much better. For me, the 5mm increments would be fine.

Is the first slider in the picture a filter factor adjustment?

If possible, it would be nice to have a link to a table of common filter factors.

jeroldharter

5-Sep-2011, 19:27

By the way, is the updated version available? I can't find it. Thanks.

Boinzo

5-Sep-2011, 19:47

Ok - I'll roll it up at 5mm increments. It just makes it easier to use.

The first slider is filter factor -yes. I agree a table would be nice. Some of those features will be part of a bigger app I have in mind that will incorporate this functionality. It'll take a bit longer to do though!

The updated version wont be available until Apple approves it. That usually takes 5-7 days. Once it's approved it'll just appear as an update within App Store on your phone and you'll be able to install it from there.

William Whitaker

5-Sep-2011, 20:49

Glad to see the support. I've just purchased it.

SMBooth

5-Sep-2011, 23:12

Can you explain how this works, do you now need to set the bellows at the the len focal length each time you use it? So 90 for a 90mm lens when there is no bellow ext to worry about?

Sorry my bad another look at the image and I see that the len / bellow is separate and just gives a stop value to add

Boinzo

6-Sep-2011, 01:25

Ok guys. After spending all day on this... here's where I am at.

I have added a table of filter values - some may need a bit of editing. I based the data on this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_factor#Filter_factors_for_common_filters) page at Wikipedia.

Someone let me know if they are no good - I rarely use any of these so aren't sure. Some of the values look a bit high to me.

Effectively you will now be able to hit the little circular blue arrow button to access a list of filters. These can be added (as many as you like) to the exposure calculation. You can clear them all out as well.

The slider is now just an additional compensation device for times when your filter isn't in the list - like my Lee Big Stopper!

So basically there are 4 things that impact the exposure time. Film and Metered Time selection, the adjustment slider (in Whole, Half or Third Stops), the Filters you add and the Bellows Compensation you set.

I need to do some more testing before I release this to Apple for approval but thought you might like to see the progress so far. It's now a pretty complex app so I need to re-make-sure I don't have any memory leaks etc.

Hopefully Apple will have it tomorrow so you guys should get an update about a week or so later.

Future additions will include ability to add and manage your own filters and lenses but I might need to do some work for some actual clients tomorrow! :rolleyes:

Here's some pix...

Steve Goldstein

6-Sep-2011, 04:11

This is a really useful app, thanks for undertaking it.

The new additions look great. I'm not sure you really need to carry around the UV and Skylight filters.

What would be really cool, and a lot more work, would be a light meter (spot, of course) with this functionality. As good as this app is, metering is still a 2-step process - read the exposure, then compensate for reciprocity. It's always been thus. But imagine one of those Sekonic meters, that already contains a micro, that gives direct exposure time when you're in fixed-aperture mode. That would be sweet!

Hmmm, I have a friend with contacts at Sekonic...

rdenney

6-Sep-2011, 06:53

This is perfect. Don't clutter it up with a personal lens library or anything like that--no need to have to maintain a database that then can't be transferred to a new phone.

For those focused in the far field who don't need a bellows extension factor, one can just leave the sliders all the way to the left with no need to worry about the focal length.

And if someone doesn't want to use the timer, they don't have to. I like software that provides features that stay out of the way when not needed.

And as for me, I don't need this capability in a meter. I want the meter to be simple and predictable, with the fewest number of buttons to push. I think that desire is pretty common, and the reason the classic Pentax spot meters are still so popular.

Rick "who bought it already and is looking forward to the upgrade" Denney

Steve Goldstein

6-Sep-2011, 08:58

rdenney

6-Sep-2011, 12:39

As I've given a little more thought to a reciprocity-compensated meter, I've realize that to be really useful the meter would need to be much more sensitive than any on the market today. I don't see that happening, but will pursue with Sekonic nevertheless.

I'm also a big fan of simple meters, and have both analog and digital Pentax models. But if I have to make a reading with gadget A, then transfer the info and push some buttons on gadget B, I don't see that life would be worse if gadget A had the optional capability to do the work of gadget B.

I don't want to get into an argument, I'm just saying...

No argument--just an aspect you might not have considered. It seems to me that reciprocity failure varies quite a lot over different films, and including it in a meter would require some way to enter the film type as well. Keeping that sort of data on the meter seems to me a hassle.

If you have pull with Sekonic, get them to reissue the L-488 with a low price tag.:)

(By the way, in looking at the meter in my Canon 5D, it does seem to have built in the reciprocity failure of the sensor in its calculation. I discovered this comparing it to a traditional meter. But it should tell you that your idea makes a lot of sense--if you know what film you are using.)

Rick "who'd rather have two simple and fool-proof gadgets than one that can be easily programmed wrong" Denney

ljsegil

6-Sep-2011, 16:06

Just happy to have bought your app and support all your good work.
LJS
?Porta 160 and 400?

Allen in Montreal

6-Sep-2011, 20:13

Great work, thank you.
I have been toying with mine for ideas to improve but you have beat me to them!:)
Looking forward to the bellows draw addition and the T films.

Ok - I'll roll it up at 5mm increments. It just makes it easier to use.

The first slider is filter factor -yes. I agree a table would be nice. Some of those features will be part of a bigger app I have in mind that will incorporate this functionality. It'll take a bit longer to do though!

The updated version wont be available until Apple approves it. That usually takes 5-7 days. Once it's approved it'll just appear as an update within App Store on your phone and you'll be able to install it from there.

Boinzo

8-Sep-2011, 21:31

Hi Again! I just wanted to let everyone know that it's taken me a little longer to get the update submitted to Apple than I had hoped. The app got a lot more complicated this week and it took me some time to finish and to completely test it. It is now submitted to Apple so I hope you will be getting the update soon.

The new version now includes an editable table of common photographic filters. This is accessed by touching the little notepad icon. You can select a filter and edit its details to suit your needs. So if you know that your CPL requires 1.4 stops of compensation you can enter that in and the app will remember that value. You can then apply your CPL to the reciprocity calculation. You can move back and forth between the main screen and the table adding as many filters as you want (or to clear them all out of the calculation).

As I said it also now includes bellows extension, lots more films and the ability to add manual compensation in whole, 1/2 or 1/3 stops increments.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and the supportive comments.

BTW: With respect to Portra films - I couldn't find much on reciprocity for these. But what I did find seemed to indicate that you could probably use the calculation for Efke B+W film and come out pretty close.

Here's some screen grabs of the new app....

leetmode

9-Sep-2011, 12:07

thanks a lot for this boinzo, please let us know when apple accepts it!

Steve Goldstein

13-Sep-2011, 18:32

I just downloaded rev 1.1 from Apple. It looks great. Thank you.

Are the arrow, plus, and times buttons supposed to have different functions on the filter page? They all seem to revert back to the main timer.

Boinzo

13-Sep-2011, 19:26

Hi Steve.
Yeah - I just saw Apple had approved it. Hooray.

The Back Arrow button just takes you back to the main page. It does nothing else.

The Plus button adds the currently selected filter's exposure factor into your maths and then goes back. You will see the filter and its factor appear on the main page. If you go back and forth between the filter list and the main screen pressing the plus you can add more than one filter to the exposure.

The X Button removes all filters from your exposure calculation so you can start over.

When you have a filter selected you can hit the pencil icon to make edits to it. So you can rename the filters and modify their exposure factors to more closely match what you use.

Enjoy.

Lachlan 717

13-Sep-2011, 20:03

Boinzo,

Thanks for the App.

One (hopefully not too stupid) question: What is the difference in the Velvia 50 tabs (filtered/unfiltered)?

Thanks.

Boinzo

13-Sep-2011, 20:12

Hi Lachlan. You're welcome!
There are no stupid questions!

I had 2 sets of maths and figures. One (filtered) is if you have a colour-correction filter attached to deal with Velvia's known colour shift on long exposures. The other is if you don't.
Hope that makes sense!

Steve Goldstein

14-Sep-2011, 02:56

Thanks for the filters explanation. I only noticed that all buttons took me back, but missed the time changes. Feeling a bit dumb about that, the numbers are certainly big enough!

jeroldharter

14-Sep-2011, 05:01

I am using it on an iPad. Is it hard to "upsize" the app for iPad?

Boinzo

14-Sep-2011, 05:17

Hi Jerold. Unfortunately it's basically a separate app. It would take a lot of effort to make it fill the iPad screen.
My original design was to have something I could use out hiking in the mountains or next to the sea. Something I could fit in my pocket. I never take my iPad on those trips!

jeroldharter

14-Sep-2011, 07:58

SW Rick

14-Sep-2011, 08:07

Just wondered. It works fine on my iPad.

On the larger screen I was envisioning sliders for f stop, shutter speed, then the adjustments, a field for notes, a field for exposure number, and a save feature. Ability to attach an iPad photo would be ideal. Kind of like the BTZS software disengaged from film development data, but appealing to a broader audience. I would pay a lot more for that.

While I understand the desire for an all-in-one, things tend to get complicated and wind up with bloated dslr-like menus and sub-menus. Have you looked at Lenny Eiger's PhotoToolsPro app, which does most, if not all, of what you're describing?

There's virtue in doing a few things well, which is why the Pentax spotmeters have an advantage over the Sekonic in terms of ease of use and not needing to carry the manual with you.

Rick

jeroldharter

14-Sep-2011, 10:50

Good point.

However I assume it could be designed with smart toggle to disable unwanted features and make for a simpler interface.

For someone with no Mac skills, I have a lot of ideas.

SW Rick

14-Sep-2011, 12:53

Good point.

For someone with no Mac skills, I have a lot of ideas.

Hey, you're an Artist, not a coder :)

Boinzo

14-Sep-2011, 13:57

I do have another app I am working on that will do much more than this one but it's still some time away. It will come at things from a different perspective and provide many more features to support the film workflow.

But I agree I will need to be careful not to make a "sekonic" where a Pentax would do.

In any case I hope the new version meets most people's needs for the task of getting more accurate and repeatable long exposures. And thanks again for all the suggestions and comments. Tell your friends to buy it!

I firmly believe it's possible to be both an artist and a coder! :)

Erik Larsen

14-Sep-2011, 15:09

I'm not sure if it's possible, but it would be nice if the reset button would reset the filter factor so you do not have to go to the filter screen to do it. Just a thought. I think I will be using your app a lot, Thanks!
regards
Erik

Boinzo

14-Sep-2011, 15:31

Hi Erik. I know what you mean and I just couldn't decide between the two options. On one hand if you are going to make another exposure you may well leave the same filters in place and just bracket or something. On the other hand you might change lenses and/filters and shoot another frame.

I figured which ever way I did it it was going to not work for someone... Sorry.

If the consensus of comments is that reset should zero the filters I'll make the change in the next update.

Thanks for the input. And glad the app is working for you.

jeroldharter

14-Sep-2011, 18:20

I have been playing around with the TMAX 400 and filter sliders. As far as I can tell, the filter factors shown on the sliders become the f stop corrections on the main page. For example, when I add a red filter with a filter factor of 8, the exposure is then adjusted by 8 stops instead of 3 stops.

Boinzo

14-Sep-2011, 19:00

Oh no! :eek:

Sorry - I just checked and I had omitted the log maths for the filter factors. I think I was too fixated on making the filters editable! :mad:

I have fixed this and re-submitted to Apple. Once again the update will take a few days.

When it arrives the filter maths will be correct based on multiplication factors. In the mean time if you edit the filters to show actual stops of compensation required you will get the correct exposure. So if you change the Red filter's factor from 8.0 to 3.0 you'll get correct times.

Sorry for the error.... :o

jeroldharter

14-Sep-2011, 19:34

That's ok. Thanks for being so quick with the changes.

SMBooth

15-Sep-2011, 14:38

While your fixing thing you cannot make changes to the lower filter factors as the keyboard get in the way and you cannot scroll the display up far enough.

Boinzo

15-Sep-2011, 17:43

Ok. I have made some changes to allow for editing of the bottom rows of the filter table. Thanks for pointing that out.
I also made it so that the sliders all disable when you start the timer. This is just to prevent accidentally moving them during an exposure and throwing the time out.
This is all submitted to Apple so you should have an update in due course.

SMBooth

15-Sep-2011, 21:24

I bet you wish you never started this now don't you :)

Boinzo

15-Sep-2011, 21:32

Hahaha. No. It's all good. :-)
I am hoping everyone is happy now though! ;-)

Allen in Montreal

20-Sep-2011, 10:50

There is a new update posted today

Boinzo

20-Sep-2011, 16:05

That's right! Apple have approved the latest update. Hopefully this release will address everyone's requests. :-)

I'd appreciate it if those that have bought the app and found it useful could take a few seconds to review and/or rate it on the app store. Supporting this little app will help me to move forward on developing some more photography tools I have in mind!

Thanks again everyone for all your suggestions and support.

jeroldharter

2-Oct-2011, 16:40

I have another suggestion. I understand that the purpose of the app is to figure out the exposure time corrected for reciprocity taking into account the variables. But sometimes, you don't know in advance that reciprocity will be an issue.

For example, if you use TMY2 (TMAX400), with a 1/8 second base exposure, a filter and some bellows compensation the resulting exposure might be 1/2 second. But the program won't show you that.

So the suggested change is to add a field above the Reset button that shows the actual shutter speed that the program calculates formatted in usual photographic notation, e.g. 1/4, 1/2, 1", 1.5", 2"...

Boinzo

6-Oct-2011, 16:56

Thanks for the input.
I have looked at implementing this but it is a little complex because the app can easily generate shutter speeds with small fractions of a stop. To achieve sensible "standard" shutter speed notations is a bit difficult - I end up with shutter speeds like 1/33, 1/62, 1/12 for example...
In any case - I am looking into it but the primary purpose of the app is to calculate and time reasonable shutter speeds for longer exposures where reciprocity is an issue.

Dcohio

20-Nov-2011, 10:19

Just purchased the app this week and got to use it this morning. Very usefull! Times listed where very close to my highly refined total guesstimations that I typically use. Thanks for giving me something I can actually use on my phone other than playing games.
Thanks,
Doug

Boinzo

26-Nov-2011, 05:34

I'd just like to say thanks for the positive comment! I appreciate it. I'm really pleased you are finding my little app useful.
I'd really love it if people who are using the app would take a moment to submit a review on the app store...
Thanks again to all that have purchased the app!

jb7

4-Dec-2011, 10:18

Hello-

I downloaded this ages ago, haven't used it yet-

One thing, I've searched through the thread, but haven't seen this as an issue-
the app timer doesn't seem to work in the background- which might be useful for my current setup- Efke 25, dark interior, 72XL, centre filter, f/16. Computed time is around 15 mins...

When the phone goes to sleep, which I think is reasonable, for battery conservation, the timer just pauses, until it is woken up again. Any chance of making it run in the background, or am I missing something?

Other than that, good app, well done-

Erik Larsen

4-Dec-2011, 10:31

Boinzo

4-Dec-2011, 15:03

Guys. I am looking into the timer issue. It did not used to do this ... Playing a sound should be enough to keep the app from deep sleeping...but it certainly seems to be an issue now. I will try to implement a fix for this ASAP. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Boinzo

4-Dec-2011, 23:57

It used to be fine on IOS4 because it was playing a sound.... (this is supposed to stop the device from going in to sleep mode).

Ok. So making the timer stay alive was not an option (this violates Apple's Development Guidlelines - something to do with battery life). :(

So. Instead I have managed to make it time how long it is asleep for and compensate accordingly when it wakes up. Also - if it goes to sleep with more than 30 seconds left it will create a system alert at 20 seconds to go to remind you to wake it up. If your exposure has less then 10 seconds to go when it goes to sleep - it'll throw an alert at the end of the exposure time to tell you to shut your ... umm.. shutter.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Most of my use has been at times of under 30 seconds so it had not come up for me.

I am pleased you are getting good use out of the app. The new version with this fix will automatically appear once Apple have approved it. This usually takes about 7 days.

I'd appreciate it if those using the app would take the time to jump on iTunes and rate it for me. Every bit helps.... :)

SW Rick

5-Dec-2011, 08:15

Thanks for your continuing interest in keeping your product current and useful!

jb7

5-Dec-2011, 09:16

Very good, thank you, appreciate your continued support of the app-

Boinzo

8-Dec-2011, 16:41

Apple have approved the update. So your App Store icon should have a little red number on it!
Thanks all. I hope this fix makes the app more useful for you.

Steve Goldstein

9-Dec-2011, 04:13

Just downloaded version 1.5. Thanks for your continuing efforts on this slick and useful app.

Ken Lee

9-Dec-2011, 05:07

I just got the app - brilliant!

Here are 2 suggestions from a software engineer/photographer :rolleyes:

1) The focal length and bellows extension sliders are great for moving a large distance, but once you get close to your desired number, they are hard to adjust with fine control, on an iPhone at least. In cold weather, I imagine it would be even harder. If there were > and < arrows (or +/- buttons) then we could finely increment/decrement the numbers simply by clicking. So don't remove the sliders, just augment them with a finer control that is easy to adjust with fat fingers.

2) Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I generally think about my lens first, and bellows draw second. ("I'm using a 210mm lens. Done. Now what is the bellows extension ? 250mm. Done") not ("I've got 273mm of bellows extension. Now what lens am I shooting with again ?"). So I'd like to have the lens selection appear before the bellows extension. That's less important of course, and I may be in the minority.

jb7

9-Dec-2011, 06:12

Thanks for doing that-

There's still a bit of an issue with the timer- if I switch to the app when I receive the alert, the timer counts down from the last two seconds- effectively cutting the time by nearly twenty seconds. Not a big deal, but if I have to manually count out the last few seconds, then a 5 second alert might be more accurate than 20. Or rather, more convenient- If the alert contained the end of the countdown timer, that would be perfect.

However, in the grand scheme of things, and considering the application of the app, at those sort of times, perhaps a 20 second difference might be unmeasurable on film anyway.

It just results in me standing around for a bit longer, lips moving, mumbling, not really a great look...

Boinzo

9-Dec-2011, 14:11

Thanks for doing that-

There's still a bit of an issue with the timer- if I switch to the app when I receive the alert, the timer counts down from the last two seconds- effectively cutting the time by nearly twenty seconds.

How long does it takes you to unlock the phone? The timer keeps running as this is happening. The 20 second notification is not second accurate because the phone will queue this alert. It's meant to simply give you time to get back into the app. Perhaps it should just say "exposure is ending soon" to more accurately reflect that.

There is another issue Ken found where just starting and sleeping the app is enough to get you an exposure alert sometime later. I am looking into this.

It serves me right for trying to get the update out too quickly!

jb7

9-Dec-2011, 14:38

It only takes a couple of seconds to get back into the app. I've checked the overall time against a stopwatch, and the difference is around 20 seconds-

Boinzo

9-Dec-2011, 19:02

Ok. So I have done another update.

The timer is definitely accurate to within a second or two on long exposures! Even after phone call interruptions and sleeping. I have done many tests over and over at various durations.

I fixed Ken's issue with the notifications. And I have added fine adjustment buttons for focal length and bellows extension. I have also swapped the position of the two sliders as per Ken's suggestion. This makes sense and I don't know why I didn't do it in the first place!

While I was in there - I added the Big Stopper to the list of available ND Grads.

As always it's now with Apple. Should hit your phones by the end of the week.

Apologies for messing up the previous update. Was in a bit too much of a hurry I think.

And again thanks for the support!

jb7

10-Dec-2011, 04:54

Ken Lee

10-Dec-2011, 04:58

And again thanks for the support!

You should get an award for world-class customer support. :)

Boinzo

10-Dec-2011, 05:09

Yes, sorry for the panic, the alerts were late, but the times were accurate- however, the lateness of the alerts seemed to also slow the stopwatch app, which I was using to time the timer, not being near any other timing device at the time-

Altogether a bit confusing, but I'm glad it works, and that I can be confident it works-

Sorry for the wobble...

All good jb7. You only cost me $4 million in sales. My lawyers will be in touch... ;)

You should get an award for world-class customer support. :)

Haha. Thanks Ken. It's how I run my real software business. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to afford LF!

SW Rick

10-Dec-2011, 08:17

Haha. Thanks Ken. It's how I run my real software business. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to afford LF![/QUOTE]

Too bad you don't run most of the software companies I have to deal with.... :)

J. Fada

11-Dec-2011, 19:33

Wow, you have my two bucks. I look forward to trying it out! Almost all of the exposures I do with LF have reciprocity issues. I usually just eeny meeny it, but this app (hopefully) will let me be more accurate. Thanks.

MWitmann

12-Dec-2011, 14:55

Bought yesterday; will try it tomorrow.

Any chanche to have listed also the Portra 160?

Many thx

Boinzo

12-Dec-2011, 15:15

Bought yesterday; will try it tomorrow.

Any chanche to have listed also the Portra 160?

Many thx

I have always said I am happy to add new films if people can provide me with an appropriate formula or at least a list of times they find reliable.
It takes many hours of research to find the best data for each film and I can't make the time at the moment.
My initial research on Portra did not turn up much of value though which is why it isn't listed.
Hope you enjoy yet app and it works well for you. There is another update due this week.

MWitmann

12-Dec-2011, 16:54

I have always said I am happy to add new films if people can provide me with an appropriate formula or at least a list of times they find reliable.
It takes many hours of research to find the best data for each film and I can't make the time at the moment.
My initial research on Portra did not turn up much of value though which is why it isn't listed.
Hope you enjoy yet app and it works well for you. There is another update due this week.

many thanks

SMBooth

12-Dec-2011, 22:36

Regarding filter, I find when adding a yellow(8) filter (1 stop) makes no difference to the time, however if I add a red (25) filter (2 stop) it only adds one stop of time , eg 1/500 > 1/250

Boinzo

12-Dec-2011, 22:43

Regarding filter, I find when adding a yellow(8) filter (1 stop) makes no difference to the time, however if I add a red (25) filter (2 stop) it only adds one stop of time , eg 1/500 > 1/250

Check what you have as the filter factors. The value listed next to each filter is filter-factor not stops. So a 1 Stop Filter has a factor of 2.0x . A 10 Stop filter has a factor of 1024.0x. The skylight filter is 1.0x and so does not change exposure.

The default value for a Yellow filter is 2x when the app is installed. This is 1 stop. It changes a 1/500 exposure to 1/250 as expected in all my tests.

Of course you are free to edit these factors to more closely represent what you have in your kit. They are not over-written by an update.

SMBooth

12-Dec-2011, 23:06

OK that's the problem, my yellow was set to x1.0 which I assume to be 1 stop not as you say filter factor. I go through and fix. Thanks

For reference: http://myphotohome.com/pto/filters4.html

Boinzo

13-Dec-2011, 00:40

Apple have approved the latest update. This should improve the notifications and a couple of other little things (as suggested by Ken). It also adds the Lee Big Stopper 10 Stop ND to the filter list.
Enjoy!

Ken Lee

13-Dec-2011, 16:12

I installed the update. Now it's even better !

r.e.

13-Dec-2011, 19:47

The new + & - controls for 5mm changes in focal length and bellows extension are a good idea.

Dcohio

14-Dec-2011, 09:04

Like the updates. Makes it easier to adjust lense and bellows slider. Thank you

Ken Lee

18-Dec-2011, 11:15

I used it again this weekend. What a treat. It has paid for itself many times over ;)

John Wiemer

20-Dec-2011, 13:05

Thanks for all the work on this very useful app. Since you are using Filter Factors to determine the exposure changes, it seems to me that the FF for the polarizers should be between 3 and 4, not 1.6 (2/3 of a stop) as you have listed them. My experience in reading exposures through the filter is that polarizers generally have between 1 1/2 to 2 stop differences.

Boinzo

20-Dec-2011, 16:46

Hi John. Glad you are finding the app useful. The filter factors are editable to meet your requirements. Just select a filter and touch the pencil icon and enter the required factor as a decimal such as 3.0.
There is such a variation in different filters that people carry so I felt it best to allow you to enter your own and simply provide a starting point.
All the best Stef.

John Wiemer

20-Dec-2011, 17:29

Good point. I have done just that with my most used filters. I guess my point was that there are those who will use your filter factors as they are listed on the app as being totally correct. Rather than use a filter factor of 1.6 for the polarizer why not list it as 3 or 4 which is more accurate. A FF of 1.6 is about a one stop difference from 3 or 4. Wilkepedia has a good chart under "Filter Factors." Again, thank you for an excellent app. I have used it several times and find it very useful.

Boinzo

20-Dec-2011, 17:31

No problem. I'll change the default in the next release. That wiki page was one of my sources so perhaps I copied it wrongly!
Thanks again.

Ken Lee

27-Dec-2011, 06:05

Here's a set of Large Format photos (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/NineInchKershaw.php) made at close range with long exposures - all timed using the app.

Michael W

1-Jan-2012, 03:56

I have this app and it looks to be useful. I have noticed one thing that doesn't appear to be correct. If I set the exposure reading to 10 seconds and bring up Kodak Tri-X the app says the exposure should be 12 seconds. However according to the Kodak pdf for Tri-X the adjusted exposure should be 50 seconds.

taulen

1-Jan-2012, 06:13

Seems to be right about tri-x, at least that should be a quick fix =) If apple approves it ;)

Boinzo

2-Jan-2012, 04:48

Hey Guys. I'm away on a family holiday at the moment. I'll look into this when I get back to the office in 2 weeks.

Allen in Montreal

2-Jan-2012, 17:51

I was wonder about the bellows draw feature.
I really appreciate it and use it, but it falls a little short allowing only plus one stop. I ran out of calculations and had to dig up my homemade chart once it went beyond 1 stop.

Thanks for a great app!
Allen

Ken Lee

2-Jan-2012, 18:17

The bellows compensation is not limited to 1 f/stop.

Try a focal length of 30mm and a bellows extension of 600mm: the app tells you to apply a compensation of 8 2/3 stops.

What may be limiting, is the upper bound of 600mm. You're starting out with a long lens (410mm), and you have reached the upper bound.

An 8x10 camera with a 300mm normal lens, needs 600mm of extension just to reach 1:1 magnification.

An upper limit of 2000mm or greater might be overkill for most users, but it would put an end to requests to increase the number.

Boinzo

3-Jan-2012, 15:36

Thanks Ken. It's funny how it works. When I implemented the bellows extension feature I actually posted here for suggestions on an upper limit! 600mm seemed to be the suggestion (I have no experience with this because I shoot wide angle only). :)
I can push up the limit easily but it is a trade off between using the slider and the limit.
Would 1200mm work for most?

Allen in Montreal

3-Jan-2012, 16:36

Hi Ken,

I was actually shooting people, with a 16.5 red dot, which I really like. It is razor sharp and a length I like for portraits. I know many prefer the 14", which allows 1 2/3 for 23.6 inches of draw.

The rail on my 8x10 camera is 30 inches (762mm) but if anyone adds a second standard to that (which I do once in a while), it can hit 1143mm.
I really can't see myself ever going beyond that, but if the app went to outer limits, I could stop carrying my reference book. ;)

Ken Lee

3-Jan-2012, 17:40

I think beyond 1200, anyone can just drop the unit of measure altogether (mm/cm/inch, etc.)

After all, a 12mm lens at 24mm extension gets the same bellows compensation as a 1200mm lens extended to 2400mm - or a 12 inch lens extended to 24 inches.

It's the relationship between the two which matters, not the absolute unit of measure.

corgan4321

5-Jan-2012, 20:23

As soon as TMAX films are added, I'll buy it!

Allen in Montreal

5-Jan-2012, 20:29

As soon as TMAX films are added, I'll buy it!

T400
T100
TMZ

Are supported.

Steve Hamley

8-Jan-2012, 15:25

I just bought it - let's see how it works. Thanks Boinzo!

Cheers, Steve

Russell Regnery

26-Jan-2012, 20:14

Boinzo,

I noticed the app store description does not mention the Efke films as currently supported by your well reviewed application. And I also note that you offer to include additional films when data is provided. I found a link for reciprocity failure and Efke films that can be readily translated if necessary from the German:

http://www.fotoimpex.de/Technik/efkefilms/efke100/efke100.html

As large format Kodak films have become either essentially unavailable (e.g., Tmax 5x7) the Efke sheet film data should become more relevant to many of us. I hope this is useful...inclusion of Efke info in your app would be much appreciated.

Thanks much, Russ

Boinzo

26-Jan-2012, 23:12

Hi Russell.
Thanks. The app does support efke film already. Although I think it is not adding the 6th of a stop at 1 sec to 2 secs. In any case efke 25 is a film I use a lot and have certainly made many long exposures timed with the app on efke!
I am not at my desk ATM (away for the weekend). But I'll check exactly what math I am doing on efke and post it for you. If it needs some change I'll look into it.
Thanks again for the post!

Allen in Montreal

30-Jan-2012, 16:28

You could probably make a killing on a basic darkroom timer,

Just a basic timer, autorun is a must, 10 stages would be best, programmable and be able to name the steps and save.

Simple but no one has made the ideal simple timer yet.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=86345

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=86345&page=4

Roger Thoms

30-Jan-2012, 17:04

I just started using the reciprocity timer and I works well, at least it did for the three exposures I used it on. It would be nice if the beeps were a little louder, I could barely hear them and yes the volume was up all the way. Also didn't see Tri-X 320 on there.

Roger

thrice

4-Jun-2012, 02:30

Any plans for an android version?

Underaglassbell

22-Jul-2012, 14:58

Hi All. I have just had Apple accept my first iPhone App into the store! It is a simple little app I originally made for my own use that I thought others might also get some value from.

It allows you to select from a list of available films and a metered exposure duration - from there it will calculate an actual exposure including reciprocity. The maths is based on as many formaulas I could find for some common films. You can currently select from Ilford B+W, Velvia (color filtered and unfiltered), Provia, Tri-X and Ektar. I will be more than happy to add new films if anyone has the mathematics and can send it to me.

The app also includes a slider to let you add or remove stops of initial exposure (for example if you add an ND) and gives you a count-down timer to time-out your shutter.

It's pretty simple - but I have found it really useful.These (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=79804) shots were made using it.

I have it listed at $1.99 - but will obviously review that depending on feedback and workload.

You can get it here (http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/reciprocity-timer/id459691262?mt=8).

Hi, I purchased this app recently and used it for the first time today, in conjunction with the 'ND timer' app.

I was shooting with a roll of efke IR820 Aura (100) film, and I used your 'efke' setting; I take it that is right - meaning the Reciprocity is the same for most efke films, or have I got this wrong?

It seems a great app though. I would really love it if you could include Portra 160/400 in the next update, as I do tend to shoot with them quite frequently, and it would be nice to have them in the app for reference.

Regards,
DaN

Geraldine Powell

6-Jan-2013, 08:05

I don't understand how to use the reciprocity timer. I tried it for the first time yesterday and got a weird result that had to be wrong. Here is what I input:

HP5+ film.
the meter reading was f32 at 20sec, so I put in 20"
Focal length 120mm
bellows extension 300mm (That gave bellows: 2 and 2/3 srops)
no filters, so that was 0

That gave just over 25 MINUTES as the exposure time. What am I doing wrong?

Also, how do I prevent the iphone5 turning itself off during the countdown?

I read through all 12 pages of this thread but no-one seems to have had this problem.
Geraldine

Ken Lee

6-Jan-2013, 10:22

I entered the same parameters and got the same result, which may be perfectly correct.

An increase of 2 2/3 stops for bellows extension equates to a factor of 6.5x, so 20 seconds becomes 130 seconds.

If we look at the reciprocity table given by Ilford for HP5+, see see that 130 seconds is "off the chart", but perhaps the author of the software has determined the formula according to an exponential function.

By 30 seconds, the curve is basically linear, but rather steep: to go from 30 to 35 seconds of measured time (X axis) requires an additional 50 seconds of exposure (Y axis). At that rate (10 seconds compensation for each additional second), compensation might add up pretty quickly.

Am I overlooking something ? Perhaps some brighter lighting would help get things down to a more reasonable exposure.

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/HP5Reciprocity.png

Geraldine Powell

6-Jan-2013, 11:31

Thank you for the reply. I opened up 2 and 2/3 stops. Was that correct? Anyway, what I did to the lens aperture would not affect the app on the iphone. 25 minutes just seems too long compared to an other image I took under the same lighting. I am off now to process the negatives and I will report what I find.
Geraldine

Ken Lee

6-Jan-2013, 13:10

Opening up by 2 2/3 stops allows you to shorten the exposure by a factor of 6.5 X, so the 20 second indicated exposure goes down to 3 seconds.

Next, we consider reciprocity failure: the app tells us that a 3-second exposure with HP5+, should actually be given 6 seconds. That matches the Ilford chart too.

So if you compensated for bellows extension but not for reciprocity, you will have under-exposed by 1 stop.

Depending on the subject, that may or may not matter. If the subject is very contrasty, then some detail in the shadows will have been lost. If the subject is of low contrast and not particularly dark, then you can still get an optimal print.

Geraldine Powell

6-Jan-2013, 14:36

Ken Lee

6-Jan-2013, 15:21

I don't understand why I need to shorten the exposure time if I have already opened up 2 and 2/3 stops. I thought you either open up the stops or you lengthen the exposure time, not both.
Anyway, I had the shutter open for 25 minutes at the settings I described. I expected total over exposure but actually the image looks good in the negative. I wil scan it tomorrow and then I will really be sure. Maybe the app was right on. The first negative I shot where I forgot reciprocity failure was grossly underexposed.
I think it would be very helpful if we or someone could make a tutorial of how to use this app so it is really clear to inexperienced people like myself.

You don't need to shorten exposure time. You needed to lengthen it because of bellows draw, and then some more for reciprocity. If you shot at infinity, there would be no need for bellows compensation. However, you shot at greater magnification than 1:1, so 2 2/3 stops more exposure were needed as compensation.

Next comes reciprocity failure. Some films handle long exposures better than others. This is a separate consideration from bellows extension, and needs to be calculated after bellows compensation - which is what the app does.

This page (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/bellows.php) gives the formula for bellows compensation (see the section entitled "How Many More f/stops are Required ?"). That the app is a lot more convenient.

Reciprocity varies with brands of film, and with length of exposure. Fuji Acros requires very little compensation, even for rather long exposures. More traditional films like Tri-X or HP5+ lie at the other end of the spectrum, and require a lot of compensation. So that app is actually pretty straightforward: you enter the parameters, and it tells you the results, quite reliably, and for a great range of variables.

I recently shot some close-up images near a window in an otherwise dark room. The metered exposures were several seconds, but with bellows draw and reciprocity, the required exposures were 40 seconds. I followed the app's recommendations and things worked out satisfactorily. Here's one of those photos.

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/s29.jpg
Antique Rulers, 2012
Sinar P, 210mm Macro Sironar
4x5 TMY, Diafine

Boinzo

6-Jan-2013, 20:45

Hi Geraldine

As the guy that wrote the app let me give you some insight....

Firstly a big thanks to Ken for his comments.

Ken is completely correct in his very detailed explanations as well as in his "guess" that the app is using an exponential formula to calculate out reciprocity beyond known values. The app supports as many films as I could find reasonable data for from fairly reliable sources and recreates the values as closely as possible. Other films have required the development of "formulas" that most closely approximate the published curves. These equations are always exponential in nature.

So some films in the app have more exact formulae based on the published experiences of many photographers and others less so. There is a little bit of voodoo about reciprocity calculation - different photographers have different approaches and beliefs. The app is really designed to give you a repeatable and reliable reference point. It should at no time over-ride your own experience, creativity or intuition. It does aim to give you some easy-to-use mathematics to get you as close as possible to a repeatable exposure in the current metered light. I do not warrant that it will create a perfect exposure on every film in every circumstance. And obviously I can't personally test every film. :-)

With respect to your exact situation - all I can say is that app will take your input exposure time - add any required filter factors as entered - then add any bellows extension as entered and then apply the appropriate reciprocity calculation to the resulting time.

I don't actually think a tutorial in using the app is necessary (in over 2 years this is the first request for something like that!) - the process itself is pretty simple so long as the photographer is clear about what elements of exposure are required in the situation at hand. It is important to understand how bellows extension (well explained above by Ken) and so on actually work. The app assumes the photographer is on top of all that stuff.

With respect to the earlier point about waking the device in long exposures - the app will raise a notification at 20 seconds remaining exposure warning you that your exposure will end soon giving you the ability to manually wake your device. The exposure countdown continues in the background when the phone is asleep and when you wake the device it will take up where it had left off.

It is actually against Apple's development guidelines and rules to create an app that keeps the device awake (doing so can result in flat batteries very quickly and prevent other apps like the phone from functioning correctly) - although some developers have used "hacks" like playing silent sounds to keep the device awake I chose not to. In part because I often use this app myself on very long hikes and do not want a flat battery!

I hope you continue to use the app and I am pleased the image you made relying on it was correctly exposed!

Michael W

7-Jan-2013, 02:14

Hi Boinzo - something I think I mentioned here a while back - the app is very good but the Tri-X times suggested by the app are wrong - they are the same as Tmax 400, whereas Tri-X requires more compensation, I know this from experience and the Kodak datasheet. Any plans to update this?

Payral

7-Jan-2013, 02:24

+1 for TXP 320 !

Boinzo

7-Jan-2013, 15:28

Hi Michael. How much more compensation does TriX require? Are you able to give some sense of the math? I'll take another look and see if can find anything!

Michael W

7-Jan-2013, 18:56

Hi Michael. How much more compensation does TriX require? Are you able to give some sense of the math? I'll take another look and see if can find anything!
I use the Kodak data sheet (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:uwmjYhPSVYUJ:www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf+&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgKdbsSLC_h0sx027Pwihmk6v020-f639MJAAf1Bx3_gb4aqmJYipzLj2mCBwIHin3LEEYjCTyncguQIrKwzelA8rh4H68orVfKNWF9Z3yV9PwyFHz9LWkLKEcbdNQaDiVHkFyy&sig=AHIEtbQKWLreCtH9ph2z2nWx9qgkUXBnMQ) which says if the meter suggests 1 second expose for 2 seconds; if the meter reads 10 seconds expose for 50 seconds and if the meter reads 100 seconds expose for 1200 seconds. That's all they give and I have found the times to be accurate. I'm not sure what the maths is or if you can work it out from that.

Boinzo

7-Jan-2013, 20:22

Thanks Michael. I'll look at what I can do... :-)

tenderobject

8-Jan-2013, 04:47

do you have kodak plus x and arista edu ultra 100/200/400 in your list of films?

Noah A

8-Jan-2013, 07:32

I use this app and love it. The timer itself is handy.

Any plans to add Portra 160? PLEASE????

jose angel

3-Feb-2013, 02:38

First of all, thank you Boinzo for your work and your attention.

Just two issues I have noticed; in the "filter section", when trying to overwrite the filter name (using the iPhone "typewriter"), the typewriter area gets off... it turns suddenly white. I then leave the "filter section", but when I return to it, the "typewriter area" is kept off and white. I`ve had to uninstall and re-install the app to make it work again.

The second one is not a bug, but a suggestion; the app screen is already too compressed with all the controls, it could take advantage of the bigger screen in the iPhone 5. Specially for the focal lenght&bellows extension sliders which are too small. In my iPhone 5, there is a wasted blank area at top and bottom. I wonder if the film selection controls can be placed in another screen, maybe leaving at the main screen a reminder or a small two or three buttons selector, for the most used films (at the end, these days we use to work with one or two kinds of film, so there is no need of having this big selector in a first plane).

I find it to be an useful app for LF photographers; yours have been a very good idea. I`m working with it today.

tenderobject

1-Mar-2013, 08:52

What films are available on this app? Will tryn o get this sooner

Eric Bryan

3-Mar-2013, 13:17

Purchased and downloading right now. Great utility!

Boinzo

3-Mar-2013, 19:15

Purchased and downloading right now. Great utility!
Awesome Eric. Hope it works well for you!

What films are available on this app? Will tryn o get this sooner

The app currently supports the following films. There are one or two obvious omissions - Astia, Provia and Portra for example - this is because all my research indicates that reciprocity is of minimal concern with these or I have simply been unable to find useful data.
The Tri-X times the app determines have been found to have some issues in the current release. These have been resolved and times that more accurately reflect Kodak's official data will appear in the next version. Along with a few other enhancements. I just need the time to complete it!

Velvia 50 (unfiltered)
Velvia 50 (with magenta filter)
Velvia 100F
Provia 100F
Ektar
Efke 25/50
Fomapan 100
Fomapan 200
Ilford HP5+
Ilford Delta 100
Ilford Pan-F+
Ilford FP4+
Ilford SFX 200
Ilford XP2
Kodak T-MAX 400
Kodak T-MAX 100
Kodak TRI-X
Kodak PLUS-X
Kodak Tech Pan
Kodak T400 CN
Kodak TMZ

Kimberly Anderson

3-Mar-2013, 19:28

Boinzo

3-Mar-2013, 19:49

Tried to use it yesterday. I was disappointed that the apertures stopped below what I wanted to use. I was wanting to use f/128 but when I realized I couldn't, I just opened up the calculator and figured out my exposure on my own.

Hi Michael. I'm not sure I understand your issue. The app does not have any apertures in it. Can you give me a clearer idea of what you were trying to achieve in case it's an issue I need to address in the program?
Thanks!

StoneNYC

3-Mar-2013, 20:11

Awesome Eric. Hope it works well for you!

The app currently supports the following films. There are one or two obvious omissions - Astia, Provia and Portra for example - this is because all my research indicates that reciprocity is of minimal concern with these or I have simply been unable to find useful data.
The Tri-X times the app determines have been found to have some issues in the current release. These have been resolved and times that more accurately reflect Kodak's official data will appear in the next version. Along with a few other enhancements. I just need the time to complete it!

Velvia 50 (unfiltered)
Velvia 50 (with magenta filter)
Velvia 100F
Provia 100F
Ektar
Efke 25/50
Fomapan 100
Fomapan 200
Ilford HP5+
Ilford Delta 100
Ilford Pan-F+
Ilford FP4+
Ilford SFX 200
Ilford XP2
Kodak T-MAX 400
Kodak T-MAX 100
Kodak TRI-X
Kodak PLUS-X
Kodak Tech Pan
Kodak T400 CN
Kodak TMZ

Wait I thought Acros 100 was supported? Has this changed? It's specifically what I use for long exposures because it has such good reciprocity characteristics and use it when I shoot 10 minute to 4 hour exposures... Thanks!

Kimberly Anderson

3-Mar-2013, 23:34

I guess I am using a different app called 'Reciprocity'. Let me download yours and check it out. Thanks!

EDIT: Oh yes, your app is much better. Well worth the price. Thanks!

Boinzo

3-Mar-2013, 23:40

Wait I thought Acros 100 was supported? Has this changed? It's specifically what I use for long exposures because it has such good reciprocity characteristics and use it when I shoot 10 minute to 4 hour exposures... Thanks!

My understanding is that Acros has virtually no reciprocity up to 2 minutes and was then add 1/2 a stop. Does that sound correct? If so - I will add it in the next release ...
:-)

StoneNYC

3-Mar-2013, 23:43

My understanding is that Acros has virtually no reciprocity up to 2 minutes and was then add 1/2 a stop. Does that sound correct? If so - I will add it in the next release ...
:-)

You are correct that it has no failure for 2 minutes, but I don't know after that, but the PDF for the film as the reciprocity chart in it (all the fuji pdf's seem to have it.

But I'm no good at math so having a chart would be great help after the 2 minute mark, right now I just "guess" lol

Boinzo

4-Mar-2013, 00:03

No worries Stone. Just PM me the chart you have and I'll see if I can do the math and include it in the next version. Be aware though that all reciprocity math after 2 mins is a bit sketchy as a film's characteristics may start to increasingly deviate from the expected math. If that makes sense!

Eric Bryan

4-Mar-2013, 09:00

I used this app yesterday when I was shooting a beach sunset. My stopwatch is in the shop for repairs, so I found the included timer on this app to be super useful.

Just wanted to say again, this is a kick-ass app and I've been sharing it with all my film friend :)

dperez

6-Mar-2013, 09:32

I made a 1 hour and 30 minute exposure on Arista Ultra EDU 100 using the Fomopan 100 settings on this app, worked great!

welly

7-Mar-2013, 19:04

Awesome Eric. Hope it works well for you!

The app currently supports the following films. There are one or two obvious omissions - Astia, Provia and Portra for example - this is because all my research indicates that reciprocity is of minimal concern with these or I have simply been unable to find useful data.
The Tri-X times the app determines have been found to have some issues in the current release. These have been resolved and times that more accurately reflect Kodak's official data will appear in the next version. Along with a few other enhancements. I just need the time to complete it!

Velvia 50 (unfiltered)
Velvia 50 (with magenta filter)
Velvia 100F
Provia 100F
Ektar
Efke 25/50
Fomapan 100
Fomapan 200
Ilford HP5+
Ilford Delta 100
Ilford Pan-F+
Ilford FP4+
Ilford SFX 200
Ilford XP2
Kodak T-MAX 400
Kodak T-MAX 100
Kodak TRI-X
Kodak PLUS-X
Kodak Tech Pan
Kodak T400 CN
Kodak TMZ

I've been shooting with Fomapan 100 for a while now and use RT for my reciprocity calculations. The app reports 1 second exposures for Foma 100 to result to 1 second. However, looking at a few sites, they report Foma 100 at 1 second should be 1.9 seconds.

See:

* http://consumptive.org/technical/Fomapan_100_Schwarzchild_Effect.pdf
* http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=616301

I may try this and get back to you to confirm though!

Michael W

7-Mar-2013, 21:31

I've been shooting with Fomapan 100 for a while now and use RT for my reciprocity calculations. The app reports 1 second exposures for Foma 100 to result to 1 second. However, looking at a few sites, they report Foma 100 at 1 second should be 1.9 seconds.

See:

* http://consumptive.org/technical/Fomapan_100_Schwarzchild_Effect.pdf
* http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=616301

I may try this and get back to you to confirm though!
I just had a look at the Foma data sheet I have as a pdf and it states no correction required up to .5 second. A 1 sec meter should be given twice as much light (so 2 seconds as you say), a 10 sec meter should be multiplied by 8 and a 10 sec meter reading multiplied by 16.
So the app does disagree with the Foma numbers. The question of course is which is more accurate?

Tony Lakin

8-Mar-2013, 01:47

Great idea:cool: wish I could afford an Iphone/pod:(

StoneNYC

8-Mar-2013, 12:50

Great idea:cool: wish I could afford an Iphone/pod:(

Says a guy shooting LF lol

Eric Bryan

9-Mar-2013, 14:12

Says a guy shooting LF lol

Haha I was thinking the same thing :cool:

Tony Lakin

9-Mar-2013, 15:51

StoneNYC

10-Mar-2013, 00:18

I acquired all my LF equipment up until a couple of years ago when I was a practising professional photographer, I also layed down stocks of LF film prior to my retirement, now I have a small pension which will not allow any more large capital purchases, any spare cash goes on materials:p

FYI an iPhone is $100 with contract, you can probably afford that, can't you? Or sell/barter for one. If you have a toyo 45A I'll trade for my iPhone ;)

tenderobject

10-Mar-2013, 01:25

Great i will get this app later on. Would you add foma400 soon? Thank you!

Awesome Eric. Hope it works well for you!

The app currently supports the following films. There are one or two obvious omissions - Astia, Provia and Portra for example - this is because all my research indicates that reciprocity is of minimal concern with these or I have simply been unable to find useful data.
The Tri-X times the app determines have been found to have some issues in the current release. These have been resolved and times that more accurately reflect Kodak's official data will appear in the next version. Along with a few other enhancements. I just need the time to complete it!

Velvia 50 (unfiltered)
Velvia 50 (with magenta filter)
Velvia 100F
Provia 100F
Ektar
Efke 25/50
Fomapan 100
Fomapan 200
Ilford HP5+
Ilford Delta 100
Ilford Pan-F+
Ilford FP4+
Ilford SFX 200
Ilford XP2
Kodak T-MAX 400
Kodak T-MAX 100
Kodak TRI-X
Kodak PLUS-X
Kodak Tech Pan
Kodak T400 CN
Kodak TMZ

davidmarinero

15-Mar-2013, 17:25

Eric Bryan

17-Mar-2013, 11:01

I believe Velvia 100 has a reciprocity time closer to Velvia 50. I treat Velvia 100F as I treat Provia 100F in terms of reciprocity.

Hope that helps!

Larry Kellogg

5-Apr-2013, 01:02

Eric Bryan

6-Apr-2013, 10:41

What a great app! I used to carry a cheat sheet with reciprocity tables and used a calculator to figure out bellows extensions and filter factors. Not anymore! Now what I need are some good gloves that allow using a touchscreen whilst being warm enough for New England's winter ;)

Can anybody confirm whether the reciprocity compensation of Velvia 100F is the same as Velvia 100 (no F)?

Here's Fuji's data sheet for Velvia 100. You're fine out to a minute of exposure :)

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/professional_films/pdf/velvia_100_datasheet.pdf

Boinzo

12-Apr-2013, 16:39

Hello,
First, I bought your app. As a fellow iPhone app developer, I know that is good to hear. ;-)

I don't see Kodak Tri-X 320 in the list of films. This one (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243153-USA/Kodak_8416638_TXP_4164_4x5_50.html). Am I missing something? Can I treat 320 the same as 400 in terms of reciprocity?

Thanks Larry!
As far as I know Tri-X 320 and 400 share the same data-sheet (here (http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf)) so you should be fine to select 400 in the app.
All the best!

StoneNYC

6-Aug-2013, 23:27

Hi, since getting my 4x5 I've pulled out the reciprocity timer 8 times in the last week, but many films are still missing, the glaringly obvious is Acros100, the one film designed for long exposures, and the one I often use. And Velvia100 still is missing.

And what does the "filtered" version of Velvia50 mean? What filter? Which filter and filter factor?

Delta3200 is also missing.

It also states that Provia100f doesn't start failing until after 2 minutes, I could be wrong but I think that's closer to Acroa100 than it is to Provia100f or does Provia100f also have a ridiculous reciprocity non-failure? I didn't think color films could ever get that good.

Anyway just a few things, please reply, if not ill PM you tomorrow, it's still a great app just wondering about a few things for improvements as I'm going to Acadia National Park this weekend and planed for some great night exposures and wanted Acros and Velvia100 and Provia100f to be there and accurate, thanks!

Boinzo

6-Aug-2013, 23:53

Hi Stone!

Let me try to answer your questions.

AFAIK both Velvia 100 and Acros require no adjustment up to 2mins of exposure. At 2 mins (and up to 1000 secs) you add half a stop. While Acros is not in the film list it's not too hard to just use the adjustment slider to add 1/2 a stop to the timer. This is basically all the app would do for Acros if I add it (based on the info I can find at this stage).
Velvia 100 is a little more complex - with adjustments of 1/3 for 2-4mins, 1/2 for 4-8 mins and 2/3 over 8 mins being the best info I can find.

Please be aware also that when I made the timer I was very new to LF and not necessarily across all the films people were using. I have been very busy with other work and just haven't found the week or two I need to sit down and do version 2.0. I do hope to get it done some time soon though!

It was also originally very very difficult to get any reliable info on some films. Especially when I started the app. It takes a lot of research - and some effort to cross check data I find. Often times the numbers contradict. So some will swear that official charts from a manufacturer are not right etc. Making the app itself has actually helped some in that regard though because people have tended to offer some info on their fave films. I simply don't have the resources to research and then verify every film there is of course - but am happy to add data provided by people that have good experience with those films.

Anyway - all of that just means that if you have good reliable data for Acros, Velvia 100 and Delta 3200 send it to me. If it's easy to implement I'll do it.

All my research on Provia told me it had effectively no reciprocity to 2 minutes. This is also true of Astia and I believe Velvia 100. It might be wrong - but that's the best I could find at the time!

With respect to your trip - firstly I hope it goes great (I'm jealous). Second - just try the technique above - add 1/2 a stop over 2 mins (1/3 for Velvia 100 up to 4 mins) using the slider.

The "filtered" for Velvia 50 is appropriate for if you are filtering against Velvia 50s alleged Magenta shift on long exposures. V50 is my principle film and I often shoot very long exposures and have never seen it go magenta... so will probably remove that in the next version and put V100 in instead!

Another thing to keep in mind is that iOS7 is due very soon and the app will likely be updated then to deal with changes in the operating system - this will be a good time to add those films above.

Please let me know if the reciprocity info I have posted above sounds right. It's always hard with films I don't personally shoot.

All the best and have a fantastic trip.

Hi, since getting my 4x5 I've pulled out the reciprocity timer 8 times in the last week, but many films are still missing, the glaringly obvious is Acros100, the one film designed for long exposures, and the one I often use. And Velvia100 still is missing.

And what does the "filtered" version of Velvia50 mean? What filter? Which filter and filter factor?

Delta3200 is also missing.

It also states that Provia100f doesn't start failing until after 2 minutes, I could be wrong but I think that's closer to Acroa100 than it is to Provia100f or does Provia100f also have a ridiculous reciprocity non-failure? I didn't think color films could ever get that good.

Anyway just a few things, please reply, if not ill PM you tomorrow, it's still a great app just wondering about a few things for improvements as I'm going to Acadia National Park this weekend and planed for some great night exposures and wanted Acros and Velvia100 and Provia100f to be there and accurate, thanks!

welly

7-Aug-2013, 00:46

Can you let the timer continue to run when the app goes into the background? I was caught out with this when I forgot to turn off the screen lock!

Boinzo

7-Aug-2013, 00:54

It does. When you lock the device (or it goes to sleep) it sets a notification for 20-30sec before your exposure ends. If you wake the device the timer resumes from the correct time. It has been like that for the past 3 versions Welly.
I use it all the time!

Actually - I should add... you may need to go into settings and check you have notifications turned on for the app for this to work. This is common to all iOS apps. Apple will not permit an app that runs in the background - it is against their terms of service (something to do with battery life).

Can you let the timer continue to run when the app goes into the background? I was caught out with this when I forgot to turn off the screen lock!

welly

7-Aug-2013, 01:11

It does. When you lock the device (or it goes to sleep) it sets a notification for 20-30sec before your exposure ends. If you wake the device the timer resumes from the correct time. It has been like that for the past 3 versions Welly.
I use it all the time!

Actually - I should add... you may need to go into settings and check you have notifications turned on for the app for this to work. This is common to all iOS apps. Apple will not permit an app that runs in the background - it is against their terms of service (something to do with battery life).

Ah, maybe you're right! I'll test it out again!

Cheers

Steve Goldstein

7-Aug-2013, 03:21

When you do next update the app, please don't delete any films just yet if you can avoid it. Some of us have freezers...

StoneNYC

7-Aug-2013, 06:34

When you do next update the app, please don't delete any films just yet if you can avoid it. Some of us have freezers...

Good point, yes I believe he said he is only deleting the "filtered" version of Velvia50 which you can just add a filter factor of your own in another section.

Anyway, data sheets...

http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/fuji_tech/AF3-083E.pdf

http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/katalog/04_filmm/download/en_1004.pdf

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201071394723115.pdf

These aren't hard to find, you just google them :)

The confusion for me is that the reciprocity starts at 2 minutes, so adding 1/2 stop to a 45 minute exposure means I'm also halfing the first 2 minutes, there's no way to tell the timer to WAIT for the 2 minutes to be up.

The last exposure I made was with FOMA100 of an hour and a half, FOMA sucks and I would never use it again for long exposure but its all I had at the moment a it was a gift, but I don't use it normally.

Anyway, I'm very appreciative of the app, so if this sounded harsh, it wasn't meant to.

I'm not good at reading the curve charts etc, that's why I look to you, you seem to understand this better than I do, I'm better at framing a shot haha

Thanks.

Eric Bryan

7-Aug-2013, 08:29

It also states that Provia100f doesn't start failing until after 2 minutes, I could be wrong but I think that's closer to Acroa100 than it is to Provia100f or does Provia100f also have a ridiculous reciprocity non-failure? I didn't think color films could ever get that good.

Provia 100F actually goes to 4 minutes before needing to account for reciprocity. It is a great color film for long exposures!

Glad someone finally asked what Velvia filtered means. I was always unsure as well, but I figured it meant the filter for the magenta cast.

I would love to see a Portra 160 profile, but until that happens I usually go with Ektar reciprocity numbers when shooting with Portra.

I recommend this app to every film photographer I know. Really great app!

Kimberly Anderson

7-Aug-2013, 09:05

The other day I was using it and needed the bellows extension to go beyond 600mm. I had the camera way racked out and figured it out on my own, but after RT gave me a good place to start.

petetsai

7-Aug-2013, 11:29

Michael, I wish the BE scale went out further or had an option to switch, I've found what worked for me was to just use my values divided by 10 which is in scale for the app and still provides the same compensation factor. ie, if i'm racked out to 700mm and the lens is a 600mm lens I'd plug in 60mm and 70mm, its not the most accurate for the inbetweens as I'd like but at least it gives a quick ballpark.

Boinzo

7-Aug-2013, 17:18

StoneNYC

7-Aug-2013, 17:54

Guys. There is no way I'm deleting any films ok! I may change Velvia 50 (filtered) to Velvia 100. But that's it.

Thanks for the tip on Google Stone! Who knew? :p ;)

What the chart for Delta 3200 tells me is that it has the same (official) curve as HP5. So basically - if you select HP5 you'll get the same numbers. This is may actually the case for some of the other films people want to have implemented as well. If so it's pretty easy to add - so let me know if you have good info that one film's characteristics are very close to anothers.

I'll certainly add those films in the next release - so thanks!

Reciprocity is typically calculated across the whole length of the exposure because it is a cumulative phenomenon. The mathematics are mostly exponential type equations - so each value is dependent on the previous. Reciprocity normally only kicks in after a certain duration because the foot of the exponential curve is mostly flat. How flat and for how long is obviously variable. So - AFAIK you should be applying the half stop to the entire exposure. Not just the bit over 2 minutes. This is certainly how the app works (with weird exceptions and special math for some of the crazier curves).

I'll see if I can add a multiplier switch to BE slider. So you can change it scale.

Thanks for input everyone!

Interesting, thanks.

My suggestion for adding additional films is more about not knowing or remembering which ones are the same, so even if HP5+ (remember HP5 and HP5+ are different films as are all the other ilford "plus" emulsions) is the same as D3200, when out in the field I don't always have access t references and not everyone is going to know this, so it's best to just add all the films you can even if they have the same times just so you can simply click it and calculate without thinking :)

Thanks, really appreciate it, so FOR NOW, I click the "generic formula" and add one half stop? Is that what I should do?

Boinzo

7-Aug-2013, 20:40

Interesting, thanks.

My suggestion for adding additional films is more about not knowing or remembering which ones are the same, so even if HP5+ (remember HP5 and HP5+ are different films as are all the other ilford "plus" emulsions) is the same as D3200, when out in the field I don't always have access t references and not everyone is going to know this, so it's best to just add all the films you can even if they have the same times just so you can simply click it and calculate without thinking :)

Thanks, really appreciate it, so FOR NOW, I click the "generic formula" and add one half stop? Is that what I should do?

I understand the issue. I have the code open right now and am reviewing where I was up to on version 2.0 before the need for serious paying work got in the way ... :-) And what's the first thing I see in the films list - Velvia 100, Provia ... etc....

Yes. Just go generic. And use the adjustment slider to add 1/2 a stop if you are over 2mins.

I know it's been a long time between updates. Keep the faith people!

StoneNYC

7-Aug-2013, 21:35

I understand the issue. I have the code open right now and am reviewing where I was up to on version 2.0 before the need for serious paying work got in the way ... :-) And what's the first thing I see in the films list - Velvia 100, Provia ... etc....

Yes. Just go generic. And use the adjustment slider to add 1/2 a stop if you are over 2mins.

I know it's been a long time between updates. Keep the faith people!

Cool thanks! And it's ok, no one else is doing it... So, you're good. I hope it's bringing in more money but if nothing else, we "appreciate" you :)

Course that doesn't pay the bills, but you can feel good about it haha

Light Guru

7-Aug-2013, 22:12

It would be nice if you could mark certain films as your favorite and have them show at the top of the list of films.

It would also be REALY nice if you had the option to save the exposure information for your shot for reference later. Even better if you could add in notes about things like location, what lens was used, where you metered in the scene for zone system metering and what development you want to use N, N+1 etc.

I love the app and use it all the time, but not having to write down separately all the info I feed the app and the exposure time it gives me would be really nice.

StoneNYC

7-Aug-2013, 22:16

Light Guru

7-Aug-2013, 22:26

If you're going to go that far, add the option to print the data to the printer using the iPhone instant printer option feature. (You need a new printer that uses the wifi protocol but still, I use it a lot I print right from my phone).

That would be nice but I would be ok with printing them from the computer when I get home. Just have the app save each exposure note to Dropbox.

Boinzo

7-Aug-2013, 22:56

Arrrrrrggggh! What have I done! ;)
My hourly rate on this thing is around 4c an hour Stone. Just so you know. It's the "appreciation" I'm doing it for!
:)

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 00:56

Arrrrrrggggh! What have I done! ;)
My hourly rate on this thing is around 4c an hour Stone. Just so you know. It's the "appreciation" I'm doing it for!
:)

:) I'll post it on my Instagram, vogue photographers and DP's follow me, but after the update ;)

Boinzo

8-Aug-2013, 01:07

:) I'll post it on my Instagram, vogue photographers and DP's follow me, but after the update ;)

Thanks. I think... :p
BTW - don't use "Generic" use "No Reciprocity" for your Neopan stuff. I gave you the wrong advise earlier. Sorry.

Ok. So below is the current list of films ... (I've been in the code working on it....). What am I missing that someone can get quality data for?
Note the multiple T-MAX and TRI-Xs. This is because there are 2 competing sets of data. One from APUG thats some people swear by and the official chart data.... I'm giving you both. I'm also working on a process to let you put your fave films at the top of the list. As well as a way to let you enter a custom film with your own values for each exposure time (over 1 sec).
Anyone who wants a film added - get it in this thread with a good reference to reciprocity data and I'll get it in if I can.
I am also reviewing the Fomapan numbers based on those provided earlier.
I'll look at note-taking but it's pretty nightmarish (especially printing! :-o) .... we will see. If everything else goes well and I have some gas left in my tank I'll give it a go.

1 Velvia 50
2 Velvia 100F
3 Neopan Acros 100
4 Provia 100F
5 Ektar
6 Efke 25/50
7 Fomapan 100
8 Fomapan 200
9 Ilford HP5+
10 Ilford Delta 100
11 Ilford Delta 3200
12 Ilford Pan-F+
13 Ilford FP4+
14 Ilford SFX 200
15 Ilford XP2
16 Kodak T-MAX 400
17 Kodak T-MAX 100
18 Kodak T-MAX (official)
19 Kodak TRI-X 400
20 Kodak TRI-X 400 (official)
21 Kodak PLUS-X
22 Kodak Tech Pan
23 Kodak T400 CN
24 Kodak TMZ
25 Generic Formula

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 01:13

Thanks. I think... :p
BTW - don't use "Generic" use "No Reciprocity" for your Neopan stuff. I gave you the wrong advise earlier. Sorry.

Ok. So below is the current list of films ... (I've been in the code working on it....). What am I missing that someone can get quality data for?
Note the multiple T-MAX and TRI-Xs. This is because there are 2 competing sets of data. One from APUG thats some people swear by and the official chart data.... I'm giving you both. I'm also working on a process to let you put your fave films at the top of the list. As well as a way to let you enter a custom film with your own values for each exposure time (over 1 sec).
Anyone who wants a film added - get it in this thread with a good reference to reciprocity data and I'll get it in if I can.
I am also reviewing the Fomapan numbers based on those provided earlier.
I'll look at note-taking but it's pretty nightmarish (especially printing! :-o) .... we will see. If everything else goes well and I have some gas left in my tank I'll give it a go.

1 Velvia 50
2 Velvia 100F
3 Neopan Acros 100
4 Provia 100F
5 Ektar
6 Efke 25/50
7 Fomapan 100
8 Fomapan 200
9 Ilford HP5+
10 Ilford Delta 100
11 Ilford Delta 3200
12 Ilford Pan-F+
13 Ilford FP4+
14 Ilford SFX 200
15 Ilford XP2
16 Kodak T-MAX 400
17 Kodak T-MAX 100
18 Kodak T-MAX (official)
19 Kodak TRI-X 400
20 Kodak TRI-X 400 (official)
21 Kodak PLUS-X
22 Kodak Tech Pan
23 Kodak T400 CN
24 Kodak TMZ
25 Generic Formula

You're missing velvia100 which is the data I sent I believe NOT velvia100f which has been discontinued (you should include both because they are very different films).

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 01:14

Ektar is different from Ektar100 which is it?

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 01:14

Tri-X is different than 400TX (new reformulation) which is it?

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 01:17

T-max400(original TMY) is different than new T-Max400 (TMY-2) which is it?

This may also be why you have conflicting numbers from APUG users with large freezers of old stock, and the data sheets you're finding for the newer formulas?

Boinzo

8-Aug-2013, 01:20

You know what. This suddenly just got way too hard right now.
It's been a long day. I might look at it tomorrow.

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 01:21

Delta 400

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010628953322222.pdf

Think that's it I'm done :)

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 01:26

You know what. This suddenly just got way too hard right now.
It's been a long day. I might look at it tomorrow.

Sorry, was trying to help, you asked for any errors.

It's a lot to take in.

I'm sure most of your data is for the newer films as the PDF's for older films probably aren't online.

Just pointing out some potential confusion.

Also, I don't know a lot, just minor things, it's possible for example the re-formulation of Tri-X into 400TX didn't change the reciprocity rate. But if you ONLY have the data PDF for 400TX then list it as 400TX as that's the currently available one, look to the future :). Same with TMY-2, that's probably what you have for data, so just put "T-Max400 (TMY-2)" as the listing so it's clear and forget original TMY For now, don't make it harder just use what you have :)

Glad you have Tech Pan in there, I'm about to shoot a whole bunch of it! :)

Thanks for putting the time in, we all honesty appreciate it.

I think this new update will get it noticed and sell more, and I will tell the other photogs I know about it.

Sleep well, and thanks.

Boinzo

8-Aug-2013, 01:32

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 01:35

It's fine. I'm not bent out of shape.
It's just kind of hard to answer the questions since the original sources don't necessarily identify the films to that level. A lot of this stuff is just like passed down from father to son type voodoo...
:)

Haha agreed, 2 years ago when someone said TMY or TMX I got so frustrated because I didn't know what that meant, but now I know, but I'm hoping amateurs but this too, in fact, I'm thinking after this version, you research the reciprocity of Lomo film and try and sell the app to urban outfitters as like a $1 or $2 app card they buy at the store to download with the film, that would be really profitable, just a thought, imagine all the hipsters with your app, that's a lot of $ :)

Night

Eric Bryan

8-Aug-2013, 07:54

If you're going to go that far, add the option to print the data to the printer using the iPhone instant printer option feature. (You need a new printer that uses the wifi protocol but still, I use it a lot I print right from my phone).

Since you're going this far already, it would be really nice if you could add a feature that would allow it to take my camera out and snap the pictures all on its own. This would be really useful for sunrise shots when I want to sleep in but need the shot :cool:

Light Guru

8-Aug-2013, 08:12

Arrrrrrggggh! What have I done! ;)
My hourly rate on this thing is around 4c an hour Stone. Just so you know. It's the "appreciation" I'm doing it for!
:)

I would be just fine if you created a second app at a bit higher of a price point that had the added features of exposure notes etc. At that point its not just a reciprocity timer so why not make it a completely separate app.

StoneNYC

8-Aug-2013, 10:14

I would be just fine if you created a second app at a bit higher of a price point that had the added features of exposure notes etc. At that point its not just a reciprocity timer so why not make it a completely separate app.

Yes that would also be a way to make more profit, and would be totally worth it, call it the "Pro" version :)

Also, the poster gave me the idea of taking a cell picture of the scene and attaching it to the recorded data for reference later on, of course this sounds more complicated. But it's a thought to ponder at least. Keep up the good work.

Ken Lee

8-Aug-2013, 10:53

Notes are nice, but the ability to persist the settings would also be helpful. In other words, default values. I don't like having to specify the film and lens every time, since they rarely change. What changes most often are exposure details.

Eric Bryan

9-Aug-2013, 07:32

Also, the poster gave me the idea of taking a cell picture of the scene and attaching it to the recorded data for reference later on, of course this sounds more complicated. But it's a thought to ponder at least. Keep up the good work.

I have a light meter app that will take a picture of the scene and record all the relevant info including geo coordinates. If the reciprocity app did that, I would gladly pay a lot more for that functionality.

Ken Lee

9-Aug-2013, 08:08

What application is that please ?

Light Guru

9-Aug-2013, 10:30

I have a light meter app that will take a picture of the scene and record all the relevant info including geo coordinates. If the reciprocity app did that, I would gladly pay a lot more for that functionality.

iPhone light meter apps are ok if you have no real light meter but they are not as accurate and definitely no substitute for a real light meter especially in situations where spot metering is required.

Boinzo

9-Aug-2013, 14:47

I have a light meter app that will take a picture of the scene and record all the relevant info including geo coordinates. If the reciprocity app did that, I would gladly pay a lot more for that functionality.

I am looking at adding that functionality. Managing the phone's camera and GPS is way easier than printing!
The new version will also let you mark films as favorites to push to the top of the list. As well as let you enter your own reciprocity info (a custom film).

I'm interested in what people think a fair price would be a super-version of the app?

StoneNYC

9-Aug-2013, 18:04

I am looking at adding that functionality. Managing the phone's camera and GPS is way easier than printing!
The new version will also let you mark films as favorites to push to the top of the list. As well as let you enter your own reciprocity info (a custom film).

I'm interested in what people think a fair price would be a super-version of the app?

This one is what $1?

So not much more, &3-$5 no more. I think $2.99 looks best and isn't TOO much to invest in.

Make sure you include the "go pro" banner on the cheaper version.

"Super/Pro" version should definitely include a printer option to print your recorded data.

I can't remember the last time I actually connected my iPhone to iTunes, probably over a year, so keeping the app independent from needing to connect it to a computer for some functions is essential. It's all in the cloud or airwaves now.

Either that or allow users to email an excel type spreadsheet of the data to themselves to save it/print it that way.

Whatever you think is best.

Michael W

10-Aug-2013, 05:46

What application is that please ?
Pocket Light Meter does that.

Ginette

10-Aug-2013, 10:15

Just download the app.
Witch is the closer film data for Shanghai 100 ISO sheets film?

Ken Lee

10-Aug-2013, 10:42

With iPhone if you turn on Location Services for photos, it will record latitude, longitude, altitude and compass direction with every photo.

Ginette

16-Aug-2013, 16:51

Just download the app.
Witch is the closer film data for Shanghai 100 ISO sheets film?

Very nice application.
Is the closer equivalent for Shanghai 100 ISO sheets film Is the Plus-X ?, I read some comparaisons from members on the forum.
A big difference for long exposures between Plus-X and Ilford FP4 or Delta100. Ex: basic 4" exposure = 15sec on Delta100, 14" on FP4 and 9" on Plus-X

StoneNYC

17-Aug-2013, 03:16

Very nice application.
Is the closer equivalent for Shanghai 100 ISO sheets film Is the Plus-X ?, I read some comparaisons from members on the forum.
A big difference for long exposures between Plus-X and Ilford FP4 or Delta100. Ex: basic 4" exposure = 15sec on Delta100, 14" on FP4 and 9" on Plus-X

You need to give him specific data sheets for him to include a new film, he can't just say its 15 seconds, he needs a graph data to extend it out, make sense?

It's a great app though.

Boinzo

17-Aug-2013, 18:31

Haha. Thanks Stone!

I've done a quick search on Shanghai and it seems that most say it is close to FP4 but may require 10-20% longer. There also seem to be some consistency issues reported which might be a worry. Anyway - I would start with FP4 as the basis.

It seems there is no such thing as a data chart for Shanghai so ... I would probably implement it in the app with an exponential formula (using the Gainer principle for reciprocity)...this is how FP4 is handled and generates values that are very close to those from the official Ilford chart. In the mean time - I'd use FP4 and add some time.

I have been doing a lot of work on the app over the past week. Version 2.0 is coming along well. It now includes Custom Films where you can enter your own reciprocity data points from 1 sec to 30 mins of exposure and then add then add those to the film selector. It will also include the ability to flag films as favourites that will go to the top of the list. It allows for larger bellows extensions (of up to 1200mm). It includes a complete note system that will automatically generate notes (if you choose to) based on your current exposure settings (or you can enter them manually). Notes included all details used when the timer starts as well as GPS location and time and allows you to attach a photo and enter free text. I am working on making the notes printable and exportable to Excel.

The app will probably have to support only iOS 5.0 and above though for all this new functionality to work properly. Some of the new features just aren't do-able with iOS4.

Anyway - I hope to finish development in the next week or 2 then start testing the new version. So hopefully it should be ready for release in the 6 weeks or so.

You need to give him specific data sheets for him to include a new film, he can't just say its 15 seconds, he needs a graph data to extend it out, make sense?

It's a great app though.

AtlantaTerry

17-Aug-2013, 18:53

Since more Android smart phones, tablets, etc. are being sold worldwide than iPhones, when will you have an Android version?

Michael W

18-Aug-2013, 03:19

Boinzo - are you going to update the Tri-X data? The current version gives Tmax times for Tri-X.

dsrthorne

18-Aug-2013, 12:55

Anyway - I hope to finish development in the next week or 2 then start testing the new version. So hopefully it should be ready for release in the 6 weeks or so.

Hi Boinzo, I'm new. I tried to view your profile so I could send you a quiet message on the side, but apparently new people don't have permission to do that. Anyway, I'm on android, people are asking for android, and there are services out there that will convert IOS apps to Android... for a price. I'm rather curious about android app development myself, and I've got the background in java to (probably) do it. So if you're interested in sharing the code and getting some help, I'd be happy to lend a few hours a week to a conversion effort.

I'm also new to large format photography, so this is a helpful learning experience for me for that reason as well.

And actually the way I found this thread is by searching for bellows extension factor, to find out if you have to compensate negatively as well as positively. e.g., 300mm extension on a 150mm lens is a +1 stop compensation, but what about 100mm extension on a 150mm lens? Is that -1/2 stop?

Ginette

18-Aug-2013, 13:51

I've done a quick search on Shanghai and it seems that most say it is close to FP4 but may require 10-20% longer. There also seem to be some consistency issues reported which might be a worry. Anyway - I would start with FP4 as the basis.
It seems there is no such thing as a data chart for Shanghai so ... I would probably implement it in the app with an exponential formula (using the Gainer principle for reciprocity)...this is how FP4 is handled and generates values that are very close to those from the official Ilford chart. In the mean time - I'd use FP4 and add some time.

Thanks for implement Shanghai films. I have some boxes in the freezer since 2 years but still don't test it.
I never saw any exposure data chart for this film only development info.
Here and on APUG, some members compare it to Plus-X more than to FP4, maybe some users can post about exposure data.

Continue your good work on the app.

StoneNYC

21-Aug-2013, 11:35

Haha. Thanks Stone!

I've done a quick search on Shanghai and it seems that most say it is close to FP4 but may require 10-20% longer. There also seem to be some consistency issues reported which might be a worry. Anyway - I would start with FP4 as the basis.

It seems there is no such thing as a data chart for Shanghai so ... I would probably implement it in the app with an exponential formula (using the Gainer principle for reciprocity)...this is how FP4 is handled and generates values that are very close to those from the official Ilford chart. In the mean time - I'd use FP4 and add some time.

I have been doing a lot of work on the app over the past week. Version 2.0 is coming along well. It now includes Custom Films where you can enter your own reciprocity data points from 1 sec to 30 mins of exposure and then add then add those to the film selector. It will also include the ability to flag films as favourites that will go to the top of the list. It allows for larger bellows extensions (of up to 1200mm). It includes a complete note system that will automatically generate notes (if you choose to) based on your current exposure settings (or you can enter them manually). Notes included all details used when the timer starts as well as GPS location and time and allows you to attach a photo and enter free text. I am working on making the notes printable and exportable to Excel.

The app will probably have to support only iOS 5.0 and above though for all this new functionality to work properly. Some of the new features just aren't do-able with iOS4.

Anyway - I hope to finish development in the next week or 2 then start testing the new version. So hopefully it should be ready for release in the 6 weeks or so.

;)

One note, when you say "exportable to excel" do you mean directly or with an emailable file? I ask because many of us iPhone/Mac users, use the Mac version of excel called "numbers" which reads excel files pretty well usually, but if the app needs to directly communicate with excel, that would pose a problem for many of the Mac users who don't use excel.

Thanks :)

Excited about the new app and the new iOS that's coming haha :)

Sean Chilibeck

3-Sep-2013, 07:43

Hey Boinzo,

I'm not sure if you have seen this thread for Portra 160 & 400 (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?106441-Portra-160-and-400-Reciprocity-Failure), but it might give you some good information to add them to the app? They are currently the only films that I regularly use that aren't on the app and it would be nice. I've got V1.X and it's great, I use it all the time.

Boinzo

3-Sep-2013, 14:36

Hi Sean. No, I hadn't seen that thread. Awesome! I'll definitely include that in the next release!
Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

Hey Boinzo,

I'm not sure if you have seen this thread for Portra 160 & 400 (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?106441-Portra-160-and-400-Reciprocity-Failure), but it might give you some good information to add them to the app? They are currently the only films that I regularly use that aren't on the app and it would be nice. I've got V1.X and it's great, I use it all the time.

akurek

10-Sep-2013, 22:27

Hi Sean. No, I hadn't seen that thread. Awesome! I'll definitely include that in the next release!
Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

At this point the selection of color LF negative film is very limited: Ektar 100, "new" Portra 160 and Portra 400...It would be great if you could add both new Portra 160 & Portra 400...

StoneNYC

21-Sep-2013, 09:29

Just FYI I just got the new iPhone the iPhone 5 S. It has iOS 7 on it and when I downloaded the app, it downloaded and then didn't appear anywhere and I couldn't find it but it said it was on my phone and at first didn't know how to delete it to try and reinstall it then I remembered you can go into settings and look at your usage and delete an app from there, but many people don't know that.

Anyway when I finally reinstalled the app it showed up and worked just fine but I thought you should know that that happened because it may happen to others.

Now that the new iOS is out when will the version to come out?

Thanks for making such an awesome app!

~Stone

TXFZ1

21-Sep-2013, 11:48

FYI I updated to the IOS 7 on my iphone 4 and iPad, no issues.

David

Boinzo

7-Oct-2013, 00:54

I am getting there .... :-)

103122

Steve Goldstein

7-Oct-2013, 04:04

That's a lot of information, I hope I'll be able to see it all on my iPhone 3GS...

StoneNYC

7-Oct-2013, 14:54

That's a lot of information, I hope I'll be able to see it all on my iPhone 3GS...

You won't, because it won't be available for your phone, only phones running iOS 7 which the 3G won't run... Sorry man

Also it's no more info than version 1.0

StoneNYC

7-Oct-2013, 14:56

I am getting there .... :-)

103122

Suggestion/request...

That's a LOT of white... Causing a total loss of night vision... Could you provide a red version? That you can set to open in red always? Just red, no other color (even if dark and light red) because white is the worst color for night time long exposures .... :(

Boinzo

7-Oct-2013, 15:26

Stone. This is NOT correct. You should probably check with me before you post stuff like this mate! :cool:

I am doing a LOT of work to retain support for older devices back to iOS 6.1.3 - the last version supported on 3GS. Although you are correct that it will not run on iPhone 3G since those only support iOS 4.

The app includes 2 complete screen layouts and is being developed against iOS 6.1 to ensure it will work. This is because I am aware that a lot of people run the app on older devices and iPod touches and I do not want to leave them out. It makes the process more complex, sure. But I think it's the right approach. Here it is on iOS6.1.3! :)

103169

With respect to the information on the screen there are only some small additions. The first is a bellows-length-range selector to allow for a greater maximum length.
The second is a set of switches on the left to allow for access to 3 new features - notes, marking a film as a favourite (to pin it to the top of the list) and access to a custom reciprocity time entry system.

You won't, because it won't be available for your phone, only phones running iOS 7 which the 3G won't run... Sorry man

Also it's no more info than version 1.0

Steve Goldstein

7-Oct-2013, 16:19

Thank you for keeping us Luddites stuck in iOS6 in mind.

StoneNYC

7-Oct-2013, 18:29

Stone. This is NOT correct. You should probably check with me before you post stuff like this mate! :cool:

I am doing a LOT of work to retain support for older devices back to iOS 6.1.3 - the last version supported on 3GS. Although you are correct that it will not run on iPhone 3G since those only support iOS 4.

The app includes 2 complete screen layouts and is being developed against iOS 6.1 to ensure it will work. This is because I am aware that a lot of people run the app on older devices and iPod touches and I do not want to leave them out. It makes the process more complex, sure. But I think it's the right approach. Here it is on iOS6.1.3! :)

103169

With respect to the information on the screen there are only some small additions. The first is a bellows-length-range selector to allow for a greater maximum length.
The second is a set of switches on the left to allow for access to 3 new features - notes, marking a film as a favourite (to pin it to the top of the list) and access to a custom reciprocity time entry system.

Whoops!

Sorry :/

Could have sworn you said you were developing the 2.0 version for iOS 7 only but obviously I have a broken memory lol

Boinzo

7-Oct-2013, 18:34

No worries! You have been a great supporter of the project so you get away with it! This time .... :-)

Just testing on an old iPod Touch with 6.13 - it's all working but some of the new features are a bit slow ... that's to be expected I guess.

Whoops!

Sorry :/

Could have sworn you said you were developing the 2.0 version for iOS 7 only but obviously I have a broken memory lol

StoneNYC

8-Oct-2013, 10:20

No worries! You have been a great supporter of the project so you get away with it! This time .... :-)

Just testing on an old iPod Touch with 6.13 - it's all working but some of the new features are a bit slow ... that's to be expected I guess.

:)

I would put a disclaimer like "I only made this available for older models to give as many people a chance to use it but some features may be slow on 3G models (or something).

Also, make sure to test it on models that have almost no memory, that's when you see the real problems, like 200mb left... Heh

andreios

8-Oct-2013, 10:27

I think it's been asked previously, but - any chance of an android version?

Boinzo

8-Oct-2013, 14:59

Not in the very near future. In all honesty it simply does not sell at a high enough price to make the effort worth while. My intention is to see what happens with the new version and then make a decision on Android after that. I am investigating using a tool like AppPortable but it requires a downgrade of my iOS dev tools to version 4 so I would need to maintain 2 sets of code. I may attempt a simple version using this approach.
So - no promises, but I am looking into it.

I think it's been asked previously, but - any chance of an android version?

Boinzo

20-Oct-2013, 18:29

Reciprocity Timer 2 point 0 is imminent.

Working on the help files ...

Should go to Apple this week.

All users will get a free update that includes the new films and addresses some of the time discrepancies people have raised. It also increases maximum bellows extension to 900mm.

Here's the new film list:

Efke 25/50
Fomapan 100 Classic -> based spec sheet
Fomapan 100 -> based on Gainer method data
Fomapan 200 -> based on Gainer method data
Ilford HP5
Ilford Delta 100
Ilford Delta 3200
Ilford Pan-F
Ilford FP4+
Ilford SFX 200
Ilford XP2
Kodak Ektar 100
Kodak T-MAX 100 -> based on Gainer method data
Kodak T-MAX 400 -> based on Gainer method data
Kodak T-MAX (official) -> this is calculated to hit the official spec sheet info
Kodak TRI-X 400/320 -> based on Gainer method data
Kodak TRI-X 400/320 (official) -> this is calculated to hit the official spec sheet info
Kodak PLUS-X
Kodak Portra 100/400
Kodak Tech Pan
Kodak T400 CN
Kodak TMZ
Fuji Astia 100
Fuji Neopan Acros 100
Fuji Provia 100F
Fuji Provia 400X
Fuji Provia 400F
Fuji Velvia 50
Fuji Velvia 100/100F
Shanghai GP3 100 -> best estimate based on available data

If anyone has any other film they want included in this release they had better get it to me very quickly!

Also - for Stone's benefit - the light bulb icon flips the screen between the light version and the dark so his eyes don't hurt at night.

To access the new features including:

Note Taker with ability to record all exposure details, location and attach an image as well as ability to export to PDF, CSV, XML and Jpeg (with note data in Exif). Exported notes can be printed or emailed. App can automatically create notes when the timer gets to zero. I have not implemented Drop Box because it would force the app to rely on an additional third party.
Custom Film Editor that lets you enter and save custom reciprocity data either using the "Gainer Method" (just enter an actual and a compensated time and the app will calculate the rest for you) or actual tabulated entry for all exposures. Custom films can be emailed to other users of the app so you can share reciprocity data with other photographers.
Film Fave Marker that lets you flag any film in the list as a favourite (and have it appear at the top of the list to save scrolling). Also lets you rename any film in the system. So if you think T-MAX should be called TMY you can call it that!

you will need to upgrade to the pro edition. This can be done inside the app. At this stage this is likely to be 10 bucks. Less than the cost of 2 sheets of Velvia 50.... I'm not trying to make some big profit on this. The app's market is surprisingly small and I do not expect a large percentage of users to upgrade to pro. But I would like the ability to be able to continue to develop and support the software and believe this pricing will secure its future.

The "normal" edition's price will stay at $1.99 for those that don't feel they need the extra features.

Note that when the upgrade is installed you may lose any custom filter data you entered in the previous version. It might be wise to make a note of any edits you made so you can re-enter them.

It's been a massive amount of work to get this to where it's now at. I want to thank everyone that has made suggestions and asked for films and so on. I'm really pleased with how the app is working now!

103306 103307 103308 103309

StoneNYC

20-Oct-2013, 19:17

Awesome! And thanks for adding a black version! (Is it RED? Or grey? Remember red is the safe color to not loose night vision).

Off the top of my head...

Adox CHS 100 II (which JUST came out but I think is SIMILAR in reciprocity to the old one, so here's the old one...

http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Films/Art/ADOX_Films/page20/page20.html

Also Kodak Double-X (since it's a movie stock film it's called Eastman Double-X just FYI). Here's the data sheet but it doesn't show any info on reciprocity after 1 minute, unless I'm blind? I also am not sure if it changes with tungsten light vs daylight as it's sensitivity to either is different. Anyone who can help??

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/Kodak/motion/Products/Camera_Films/BW_Negative/Technical_Data/5222_techpub.pdf

Light Guru

20-Oct-2013, 19:29

I like the look of the update.

A couple of thoughts. I would love to see the notes better accommodate using the zone system. Places to note where you measured your highlights and shadows or other zones or better yet to be able to note that on the image you attach.

Also the $10 in app purchase for the added features seems rather steep. I agree the additional features are worth an in app purchase I just think that it seems a little high.

I also don't see any reason why you would not offer a export to Dropbox option. Why does it being a 3rd party company matter. It just an export destination option.

Lachlan 717

20-Oct-2013, 19:42

Is there a way to add a voice-activated start? I use the DDS as a lens shade with one hand, and the cable release is in the other, so find it difficult to use this App. I'd love it if I could place the iPhone on the tripod and start it with a noise. With shorter exposures (1-10 seconds), this function would help a lot.

Also, any chance of adding drop in Zones in the Note Taker image to record what you've put where?

Looking forward to upgrading to the pro edition, as this is already a great App! Thanks for the effort that you've put into it.

Boinzo

20-Oct-2013, 19:52

Hi Zak.
Thanks for your suggestions. I like the idea of annotating the note photo with zone stuff and it's something I can work to implement in another update. If I am ever to get this version released I need to stop adding new features!
I understand that some people will consider $10 as "steep" and it's not locked in yet. What needs to be considered is that the "Pro" version of Reciprocity Timer has a maximum market of around 600-800 units world-wide. Take out Apple's percentage and the App does not even pay for the computer it is developed on. So far it's cost thousands more than it's made - I don't expect that to change but I do expect to be able to justify the many many hundreds of hours I have spent on it. If you think it's too expensive - don't buy it.
With respect to Dropbox - I'm not sure if you've ever done any software development but "It's just an export option" is a pretty demeaning statement to be honest. No wonder you don't think it's worth 10 bucks!

Boinzo

20-Oct-2013, 19:55

Hi Lachlan. I just double-checked, Apple do not expose the Siri API to developers so there is no easy way to implement a voice activated button. I'll do some more research as there may be a third party SDK like Dragon that can do it ...
I'm checking it out because I know there are apps where you can clap to start stuff etc ...

Roger Thoms

20-Oct-2013, 20:03

10 USD is fine with me. I've been using the app for a while and it works great. I'll definitely upgrade to the pro version when it is available.

Roger

Boinzo

20-Oct-2013, 20:05

Thanks Roger. I appreciate the support!

Light Guru

20-Oct-2013, 20:27

With respect to Dropbox - I'm not sure if you've ever done any software development but "It's just an export option" is a pretty demeaning statement to be honest. No wonder you don't think it's worth 10 bucks!

I think you misunderstood me my Dropbox statement was in regards to you saying you didn't want the app to rely on a 3rd party service. Having Dropbox as an export option does not make it rely on a 3rd part service it's simply an export option.

I think the added features have a bigger market potential then what you claim. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.

It is likely that the steep in app purchase on top of the original app purchase will make the total prophet less then if the added features were less.

The way the added feachers are described currently it's not worth $10 to me. If it had zone system support then sure.

My whole entire approach to shooting large format revolves around the zone system. Without support for that in notes any note feature would be useless for me. So the one feature I would benefit from is saving a film as a favorite and that is definitely not worth $10.

Boinzo

20-Oct-2013, 20:41

"Having Dropbox as an export option does not make it rely on a 3rd part service it's simply an export option."
Zak - Drop Box IS a 3rd party service. You seem to think it is built in and I just put a button in and wave a wand.

It relies on a large an relatively complex programming interface that would have to be linked into the app and may well make it no longer compatible with iOS6.1. Further it would require users to login to use the app or at least to authorise Reciprocity Timer with Dropbox's security system. While I use Dropbox a lot and accept it has many benefits - they are not huge over simply emailing notes directly from the device. You may disagree. And it may well be something that is implemented in a future update. But it isn't going to happen in the current one.

"It is likely that the steep in app purchase on top of the original app purchase will make the total prophet less then if the added features were less."

THERE IS NO PROFIT!!! None. :p
The figures I have mentioned are based on actual data. How many copies of the $1.99 app do you think there are out there! I can tell you exactly and it's a LOT less than you might think. On the actual figures Reciprocity Timer has cost me around $5K for you to use!

I am sorry my app is not worth 3 cups of coffee (2 in Australia!) to you. :)

StoneNYC

20-Oct-2013, 21:24

"Having Dropbox as an export option does not make it rely on a 3rd part service it's simply an export option."
Zak - Drop Box IS a 3rd party service. You seem to think it is built in and I just put a button in and wave a wand.

It relies on a large an relatively complex programming interface that would have to be linked into the app and may well make it no longer compatible with iOS6.1. Further it would require users to login to use the app or at least to authorise Reciprocity Timer with Dropbox's security system. While I use Dropbox a lot and accept it has many benefits - they are not huge over simply emailing notes directly from the device. You may disagree. And it may well be something that is implemented in a future update. But it isn't going to happen in the current one.

"It is likely that the steep in app purchase on top of the original app purchase will make the total prophet less then if the added features were less."

THERE IS NO PROFIT!!! None. :p
The figures I have mentioned are based on actual data. How many copies of the $1.99 app do you think there are out there! I can tell you exactly and it's a LOT less than you might think. On the actual figures Reciprocity Timer has cost me around $5K for you to use!

I am sorry my app is not worth 3 cups of coffee (2 in Australia!) to you. :)

I drink Starbucks, so it's only 2 cups of coffee for me ;)

Or 1/6th tank of gas

Question, so you won't have 2 apps just 1? So a NEW person would have to buy the $1.99 version and THEN upgrade? Costing a total of $12?

Or is the upgrade only $8 from within the version 1.0 app but a new user could just buy version 2 for $10 from the App Store?

And were you able to find anything on Double-X? It's only a 35mm film so bellows don't (usually) come into play, but time does for long exposures. Thanks.

Light Guru

20-Oct-2013, 21:32

"Having Dropbox as an export option does not make it rely on a 3rd part service it's simply an export option."
Zak - Drop Box IS a 3rd party service. You seem to think it is built in and I just put a button in and wave a wand.

Yes I know that Dropbox is a third party my point is that the using basic usage of the app does not rely on Dropbox. The entire app would not rely on Dropbox support like your original Dropbox statement came across to me.

The whole Dropbox thing is not a big issue for me. Like I said it the notes feature not actually being useful at this point to me.

THERE IS NO PROFIT!!! None. :p
The figures I have mentioned are based on actual data. How many copies of the $1.99 app do you think there are out there! I can tell you exactly and it's a LOT less than you might think. On the actual figures Reciprocity Timer has cost me around $5K for you to use!

I am sorry my app is not worth 3 cups of coffee (2 in Australia!) to you. :)

First off calm down and chill out. You posted on the forum to get feedback and I have given honest feedback. Just because you don't like my feedback does not mean you you should get all upset after all you wanted feedback right.

If you are so upset about not making a profit then simply don't develop the app. You obviously made the decision to continue development knowing you would not make a profit.

If the notes feature met my needs then absolutely it would be worth what you are asking. But like I said my entire approach to shooting large format revolves around the Zone System. I would pay $10 in a hart beet if the notes feature supported the zone system well.

Here a a couple of thoughts on how you could increase your market potential with reciprocity timer.

Currently it's focused mainly toward large format shooters. Is is evident because bellows factor is right there under choosing your film. Why not also try to get the word out about the app to 35mm and medium format shooters. You could even make a separate in app purchase that was geared toward roll film shooters. Keeping notes on a roll of film would be different then when keeping notes on sheet film. Differences like roll film would not really need the zone system part because you can't develop each image separately, you would also want the notes for a roll of film to be contained in a set of notes for that roll and not for each image, you also don't need to make note of what film holder you used when shooting a roll of film.

Just a couple of thoughts do with them what you want, but why not try and reach more people. You could even reach out to the people that do the film photography podcast and do a interview or something to let people know the app is out there.

StoneNYC

20-Oct-2013, 21:37

Personally I DON'T use the zone system (maybe someday I will) but it would hinder me if couldn't just take my own notes without the zone system.

Maybe it can be an add on for an extra $2 hehe

Boinzo

20-Oct-2013, 21:43

Lachlan 717

20-Oct-2013, 23:23

Boinzo,

I discussed a Zone placement system with another developer a few years ago, and we came up with (what I think is) a great function.

While I don't want to publicly name the App, I'd be happy to let you know which one if you PM me.

Also, thanks for checking up on the clap start.

StoneNYC

21-Oct-2013, 02:05

I can assure you I am very calm Zak. I am also sanguine about what it has cost to make. The reason I continue is because a lot of people I respect have found it very useful. That, and I'm a masochist for conversations like this one.... :)

I have considered shifting the bellows stuff to a separate window but I also know lots of the LF guys like having it where it is.

I also appreciate the feedback. Your input is just as important as anyone else's. It has nothing to do with whether I like it or don't like it. So thanks.

Nooo! Don't move the bellows to another menu! I use it all the time! Lol

OH OH!!!!! can you maybe install some kind of button that would make a ruler appearance screen! so we can actually measure the Bellows and then easily enter it right into the screen that would be really helpful!

In fact you could even make it slidable so you would just touch the screen and then slide it and move the iPhone as you go so that eventually it would just get to the end of the Bellows and you wouldn't even have to do anything as far as adding up the sections!

I feel like a genius right now LOL

Boinzo

21-Oct-2013, 03:42

I feel like a genius right now LOL

If you lived in my neighborhood I'd be throwing rocks on your roof right now...;)

Bellows if going to move into a sweet little popup so it's still handy but takes up less room...

One day, I'm coming to New York and we are having a beer.

Lachlan 717

21-Oct-2013, 03:53

One day, I'm coming to New York and we are having a beer.

You know that you don't have to travel that far to get away from XXXX, don't you?

Boinzo

21-Oct-2013, 04:02

You know that you don't have to travel that far to get away from XXXX, don't you?
Ha! I'm a bit of a fan of the Holgate brewery from down your way mate!

Lachlan 717

21-Oct-2013, 04:35

Ha! I'm a bit of a fan of the Holgate brewery from down your way mate!

White Rabbit as well...

Michael W

21-Oct-2013, 06:10

If anyone has any other film they want included in this release they had better get it to me very quickly!
Fuji FP100C would be a good one if you have time (that's the instant film.) They have a pdf with their reciprocity data.

Jim Cole

21-Oct-2013, 06:32

Boinzo,

The updates and add-ons look great. I'll be buying the Pro version as soon as it's available. I am one who thinks that your pro upgrade is of a reasonable cost. The other way to do it would be to raise the standard version to $5 and then charge $5 for the Pro upgrade. I really have a hard time with understanding some folks' aversion to paying so little money for something so useful.

Light Guru

21-Oct-2013, 07:00

I really have a hard time with understanding some folks' aversion to paying so little money for something so useful.

I don't have an aversion to paying for something useful. I just don't find the current note feature to be useful. I don't find it useful because it does not meet my needs. Lack of Zone System support is like giving me a keyboard with no vowel keys on it.

StoneNYC

21-Oct-2013, 20:38

If you lived in my neighborhood I'd be throwing rocks on your roof right now...;)

Bellows if going to move into a sweet little popup so it's still handy but takes up less room...

One day, I'm coming to New York and we are having a beer.

Beer is on me! Haha

Ever had "Inns & Gunn - Rum Cask" beer? I'm not much or a beer drinker, but this stuff is delicious!

Also, to make it more complicated I live in Connecticut (CT) haha. Name is a long story, short version, the website was available, simple, memorable, and supposed to manifest destiny my success :) (stonenyc.com)

Didn't work...

I do work in NY but it's sporadic, but yes, let's meet!

Gotta admit, that ruler idea is pretty awesome even if it is a pain :)