non field camers for hiking?

[rich caramadre]

anyone using a monorail type 8x10 for backpacking? I saw a video of Rodney Lough jr. and it looked like he was packing an Arcia swiss. Just curious.

[Ari]

It would have to be pretty light, and have the capability of folding down to almost nothing for backpacking or any kind of foot-travel.
I think you'd be looking at a minimum of 40lbs, with lenses and film holders.
My Toyo 810, in its flight case, is portable, but only from the house to the car :)

[Bob Salomon]

Kardan Standard 810

[sultanofcognac]

Plaubel Peco Profia 8x10. . . and it's almost broken my back a few times!

[Frank Petronio]

Arca-Swiss
Toho
Gowland
etc.

Are all pretty compact monorails. The Toho and Gowland are amongst the very lightest (lighter than wooden field cameras). The Arca is expensive but really nice because it is solid yet still fairly light and compact. The total weight of shooting 8x10 is the real back-breaker, the holders get very heavy.

[Steve M Hostetter]

I hiked with an 8x10" sinar p for years but know better now! If I were to own a 8x10 for hiking it would be a Chamonix or ebony non-folder

[Kimberly Anderson]

Canham 8x10

[Daniel Stone]

I've used an 8x10 Arca F-Line, and it, IMO, is the best monorail for field use, Period.

If I were to sell my 8x10 Calumet C-1(which is HEAVY, but super sturdy, and cheap $$$-wise), then I'd seriously consider the Arca, even w/ the extra cost. However, on the 2nd hand market, they're still not cheap, but oh so light!

Arca F-Line(w/ longer bellows for my 24" lens, normal-length bellows IIRC is like 50cm MAX) for backpacking, that'd be my choice.

-Dan

[Brian Ellis]

anyone using a monorail type 8x10 for backpacking? . . .

Centuries ago certain religious orders engaged in the practice of self-flagellation. The handful of people who use 8x10 monorails for backpacking are their lineal descendants.

[Bob Salomon]

"I've used an 8x10 Arca F-Line, and it, IMO, is the best monorail for field use, Period."

But that doesn't mean that you have seen or handled all the others, does it?

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I agree with Daniel. If you want the ease of use and other capabilities of a monorail in the field, you simply cannot beat the ARCA-SWISS F-Line. It's a true system camera, so you can configure it to meet your specific needs. Perhaps you have one configuration for backpacking that can handle lightweight, compact lenses from 150mm - 450mm on 110mm boards, and then another configuration that handles longer, larger, heavy portrait lenses on 171mm boards in the studio. The 8x10 ARCA-SWISS F-line can easily be configured to handle both (or any other) applications just by swapping a couple modular components.

Configured for field use, you can get the weight in the 9 - 10 lb. range. That's not ultralight for an 8x10, but it's not heavy, either (about 3 lb. less than a Deardorff).

Kerry

[John Powers]

Canham 8x10

Not a mono rail, but if allowed, then also RH Phillips

John

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

"I've used an 8x10 Arca F-Line, and it, IMO, is the best monorail for field use, Period."

But that doesn't mean that you have seen or handled all the others, does it?

I've seen and handled most, and agree with Daniel. when it comes to using an 8x10 monorail for hiking and backpacking nothing beats the ARCA-SWISS F-Line system. IMHO, nothing else even comes close.

Sure, ultralight monorails like the 8x10 Gowland and Toho are lighter, but they aren't nearly as versatile, configurable or easy to use as the ARCA-SWISS F-Line. The Sinar F series rivals the ARCA-SWISS F-Line in versatility, but is heavier and MUCH bulkier than the ARCA. So, that makes it much less desirable for hiking and backpacking.

So Bob, if not the ARCA-SWISS F-Line (which I assume you've tried) what 8x10 monorail would you recommend for the OP's application of hiking and backpacking? Is there something that offers all the same capabilities that folds down smaller and lighter than the ARCA-SWISS F-Line that the rest of us have all missed? If there is please let us know, because I'm sure a lot of people would be eager to purchase such a marvelous camera.

Kerry

[Ari]

Centuries ago certain religious orders engaged in the practice of self-flagellation. The handful of people who use 8x10 monorails for backpacking are their lineal descendants.

:D Amen.
I had to re-read the OP to make sure that "810 monorail" and "backpacking" were being used together.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

:D Amen.
I had to re-read the OP to make sure that "810 monorail" and "backpacking" were being used together.

Two of the lightest 8x10 cameras ever made (perhaps THE two lightest), the Gowland and the Toho are monorails. When most people hear "monorail", they tend to picture a big, heavy studio camera, but that isn't always the case. In it's lightest configuration, the Gowland weighs about 4.4 lbs. Can anyone here name an 8x10 wooden field camera that's lighter?

Kerry

[Peter De Smidt]

I've seen and handled most, and agree with Daniel. when it comes to using an 8x10 monorail for hiking and backpacking nothing beats the ARCA-SWISS F-Line system. IMHO, nothing else even comes close.


+1 to what Daniel and Kerry said. If I could afford one of the Arcas, I'd have one.

[Tony Lakin]

I remember a saying which goes as follows:- 'Gone are the days when the ships were built of wood and men were made of steel', I suppose you could use this for large format cameras, well almost:D

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Centuries ago certain religious orders engaged in the practice of self-flagellation. The handful of people who use 8x10 monorails for backpacking are their lineal descendants.

Does that mean that Da Vinci Code author Dan Brown should add to his next book hikers in the mountains with tripods over their sholders and monorails tied to them with leather straps so the cameras may swing too and fro whipping the carriers back?
I've seen one of them in the Indiana Dunes. I offered to clean his sinar after everything jammed up. (He got caught in the wind. I was using my V8 Deardorff with a barrel lens and a ND filter and no shutter) I won.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Another plus for the ARCA-SWISS F-Line. Due to the modular nature of the system, it's easy to disassemble, clean and reassemble in the field - no tools required. The focusing tracks are right there, on top of the rail sections, easily cleaned with rag or brush. And, the function carries can easily be slid off the ends of the rails, exposing the drive gear (pinion) for easy cleaning.

That said, in over 10 years, including a lot of shooting in the desert SW and the Oregon Coast, I have never once had to resort to cleaning my any of my ARCA-SWISS cameras in the field. I'm just pointing out it could be done, quite easily, if needed.

Kerry

[Ed Kelsey]

Rodney uses and Arca Swiss but he's also shooting with medium format digital. Bob Salomon is obviously in denial.

[Brian Ellis]

Two of the lightest 8x10 cameras ever made (perhaps THE two lightest), the Gowland and the Toho are monorails. When most people hear "monorail", they tend to picture a big, heavy studio camera, but that isn't always the case. In it's lightest configuration, the Gowland weighs about 4.4 lbs. Can anyone here name an 8x10 wooden field camera that's lighter?

Kerry

No, it's not ALWAYS the case but it's usually the case. I notice that no one in this thread so far has said they actually use an 8x10 Toho or Gowland. And for every 8x10 Toho or Gowland I see on ebay (if I've ever seen one, I'm not sure I have) I'd be willing to bet I see at least 1000 8x10 Calumets/Cambos/Toyos/Horsemans/Sinars et al, i.e. the "big, heavy studio cameras" you mention. So it's not surprising that when the OP asks if anyone uses a "non-field" camera for hiking, most of us think of those kinds of cameras rather than an 8x10 Toho or Gowland.

[Oren Grad]

So a question for all you ARCA-SWISS users: when you configure an F-line front standard for 8x10, how much front rise is available?

EDIT: OK, I see that there's a component called the "Extender for Front Format Frame 8x10" (part #69000) which presumably is used to help center the front standard on 8x10 without consuming too much of the front rise. Has anyone used one of these? How much rise from center do you have with and without?

[Frank Petronio]

No, it's not ALWAYS the case but it's usually the case....

It's probably more often the case that people only claim they are going to backpack with their large format cameras but usually end up not that very far from the car, usually with some flimsy, floppy lightweight wooden toy that gets jostled about in the Summer breeze.

Whilst the togs with the heavy, back-breaking, metal cameras plan appropriately and actually make pictures. My money is on the patient old geezer carrying solid gear in a baby jogger -- when it comes to delivering good pictures....

I have to chuckle at the knuckleheads here who say they're going backpacking with their 8x10s and then only taking two holders to save weight.... and you can bet they're shooting chromes.

[Maris Rusis]

Plaubel Peco Profia 8x10. . . and it's almost broken my back a few times!
Most of my early 8x10 landscapes were done with a Plaubel monorail. I used to run the front and rear standards up tight, tie both together with cord, and pull the rail out. The bits would go in the backpack and get carried to the photography site where they would get reassembled. At the end of the day the Plaubel got disassembled and packed up again for the long trek home.

[Kirk Fry]

The word mule comes to mind. That was Ansel's solution.

[Drew Wiley]

Part of the weight comes from the rigidity of the rail and standards themselves. I'd
be skeptical how well a Gowland or Toho would perform on a breezy day in any size,
especially 8x10, or with a long lens extension. And yes, some of us really do backpack with view cameras and have been for many years. But when it comes to
8x10, I'm in the Philips folder camp. What's the point of a big piece of film is it is
blurred from vibration?

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Part of the weight comes from the rigidity of the rail and standards themselves. I'd
be skeptical how well a Gowland or Toho would perform on a breezy day in any size,
especially 8x10, or with a long lens extension. And yes, some of us really do backpack with view cameras and have been for many years. But when it comes to
8x10, I'm in the Philips folder camp. What's the point of a big piece of film is it is
blurred from vibration?

I can't speak for the 8x10 Toho, but I used the 4x5 Toho FC-45X as my backpacking camera for many years and it was more rigid than any 4x5 wooden field camera I ever used, even those weighing over twice as much.

And an 8x10 ARCA-SWISS F-Line will be more rigid, faster to set up, easier to use and more versatile than any wooden field camera.

I used a number of wooden field cameras, both lightweight and more robust for the first 8 or ten years I shot large format. I switched to metal cameras about 13 years ago and never looked back. It's all a matter of personal preference, but I found a Toho for backpacking and an ARC-SWISS F-Line for everything else a tough combination to beat.

Of course, with the modular nature of the ARCA-SWISS, I was able to combine the metal rails, function carriers and front standard (basically, all of the moving parts) with wooden backs to make my 4x10 Swiss Lotus and 7x17 Franken-ARCA. These hybrid cameras worked great in these non-standard formats. They gave me all the rigidity, precision and ease of use of an ARCA-SWISS monorail, combined with compact size, lightweight and the beautiful elegance of cherry and mahogany wood.

Kerry

[Jim Andrada]

I Used to carry my 6x7 Linhof Kardan Bi in a backpack. (I know it isn't 8X10!

The trick was to have a tool and die maker cut the standard rail down so the camera could be collapsed to where it was just possible to clamp the monorail in the tripod head.

Then I got a couple of extension rails and I was in business. Camera is not too heavy but the tripod is a different story.

Oh well I was 40 years younger.

[Vaughn]

FWIW, I think the only way I'd backpack an 8x10 would be some sort of super-light Hobo-Camera (P&S) type of thing and one lens. Even still, the film holders, changing bag, etc still add up! Pehaps 5x7 would be fun to do this way.

But I rarely backpack my 4x5 (a trusty Gowland!) anymore...just the Rolleiflex and a light pod to save on the knees. Food for a week is heavy enough! LOL! And I save the 8x10 for the day hikes.

Vaughn

[Rory_5244]

So a question for all you ARCA-SWISS users: when you configure an F-line front standard for 8x10, how much front rise is available?

EDIT: OK, I see that there's a component called the "Extender for Front Format Frame 8x10" (part #69000) which presumably is used to help center the front standard on 8x10 without consuming too much of the front rise. Has anyone used one of these? How much rise from center do you have with and without?

Hey Oren,

Without the format frame extender there will be about 40mm rise and 60mm fall. With the extender there will be the full 100mm of rise. I stopped using the extender because I never required that much rise for my stuff. The extender can also damage the front of the bellows (by pinching it) when the camera is compacted in my backpack. It's also a heavy chunk of metal.

I'm very small (100lbs) and I've been successfully toting the 8x10 Arca-Swiss around since 2006. No problems.

[Oren Grad]

Without the format frame extender there will be about 40mm rise and 60mm fall. With the extender there will be the full 100mm of rise. I stopped using the extender because I never required that much rise for my stuff. The extender can also damage the front of the bellows (by pinching it) when the camera is compacted in my backpack. It's also a heavy chunk of metal.

Thanks very much for following up on this point - that's very helpful. Not a show-stopper, but it is one aspect of what otherwise seems a very appealing camera that I would occasionally find limiting. For comparison, I get about 75mm of direct front rise from center on my Phillips Compact II.

[Drew Wiley]

My experience with Sinar has been the same as Kerry's with the Arca. Never had an
issue with sand or grit in the focus gears. These monorails are very easy to reconfigure, or to replace worn components if needed. Alas, what I cannot replace is
my long-lost youth. I still use either the Sinar or my Phillips 8x10 for dayhikes; but
my days of 90 lb packs for long treks seem over, and I have to be content carrying
a little 4x5 Ebony folder.

[Rod Klukas]

The 8x10 Arca is excellent in the field. I used it for 20 years before my current job. The 141 series is about 10lbs. I configure mine with a 6" rail to collapse onto and a 16" rail and the bracket. Camera is about 3" thick except for the 6"rail on the bottom. Very fast to set up and rigid. Quick to use. Superb screen and a great bail on the back to make loading super easy without moving camera. To setup just mount bracket and 16" rail on tripod. Next slide the 16" rail forward a bit, and mount camera so rails touch. Scroll front onto 16" rail and mount lens and focus.
A joy to photograph with. Front rise in normal configuration is about 3 inches. There is a front elevation block available to add 2.5", but these cameras are so easy to use with indirect displacement, that most don't purchase this accessory.

[Rory_5244]

oh yeah, I guess you can do indirect displacement like Rod has suggested. I did that once, but watching bubble levels to make sure the standards are parallel can be a pain. 8-)