Adapting Half Plate Tailboard?

[Two23]

I've been doing some minor repairs on the c.1885 Watson tailboard I bought earlier, intending to use it soon. I have two holders for it. These are the wooden book style for half plate glass. Instead of sliding straight down into the camera back, they have sort of notches on the left side and go in by inserting that edge first, then swinging the rest of the holder into place and then sliding it down a few inches. I'm finding these old holders are harder to put 4x5 sheet film in than I first thought. Here's what I'm thinking of doing. Couldn't I take one of the holders to a woodworker who specializes in antiques/restoration and have him fabricate a wooden adapter with outside dimensions exactly like my half plate holders, and make it so I can simply use modern 4x5 holders in it? A modern holder looks like it would easily fit into those dimensions. That would make the camera much easier to use, and the results should be better rather than trying to force a sheet of 4x5 to behave in an old dry plate holder. Anyone ever done anything like this? And no, I'm not a purist.


Kent in SD

[Ash]

Can you remove the back entirely? Is it a revolving back? If so, make a 5x4 reducing back.

[Two23]

Can you remove the back entirely? Is it a revolving back? If so, make a 5x4 reducing back.

The back is removeable. The ground glass swings out of the way on hinges, and the back comes off so I can rotate it. What I was thinking was to simply make an adapter that fits into the current back in plce of the holder, that can accept regular 4x5 holders.


Kent in SD

[Ash]

Nope, much easier to make a whole reducing back, in fact you may find one for a 10x8 or 5x7 camera that you can cut down. I'd previously made one for a half plate Kodak using a 5x4 spring back and a spare sheet of timber.

[Steven Tribe]

I personally think these Watson type cameras are so attractive that changing the whole back out is rather sad.

But:

"Couldn't I take one of the holders to a woodworker who specializes in antiques/restoration and have him fabricate a wooden adapter with outside dimensions exactly like my half plate holders"

Yes, but you have to find someone with the suitable skills, raw materials (spanish mahogany), who will except your demands for fraction of a mm accuracy (depth) and will do this for next to nothing.

[Two23]

I personally think these Watson type cameras are so attractive that changing the whole back out is rather sad.

Yes, but you have to find someone with the suitable skills, raw materials (spanish mahogany), who will except your demands for fraction of a mm accuracy (depth) and will do this for next to nothing.


Yes, I'm really trying hard to not mess up the appearance. It's the big reason I bought the thing in the first place. I think I'd be happy with any hardwood stained to match. I think I could get the accuracy needed by slowly sanding off the adapter until it fit, or adding shims if needed. My other thought was to take one of the two holders I have that came with the camera and gut it so it accepts a 4x5 holder. I really don't want to do that though. It's been doing its job for over 100 years, and I would rather not be the one that comes along and Fs-it up. Another thought is to get some solid black foam and carve it out into what I need.


Kent in SD

[Drew Bedo]

I have two wooden field cameras: An 8x10 Kodak 2-D and an early Zone VI in 4x5. Neither of them is considered "antique" or collectible. Yet I feel as though I am less their owner and more a conservator or steward. With care, they will each outlive me as they have outlived their first "owners".

You have a true antique artifact of photographic history. By all means, delight in it and use it. But I would strongly urge you to avoid modifying it from its original purpose. Have a new back made to take sheet film holders. There are craftsmen available on this board who can fabricate whatever it might take to allow you to shoot film in your camera and still keep it true to its beginnings.

Another thought: There are people doing wet plate photography today who would love to have such a camera. Sell or trade it to a wet plate photographer and get a sheet film camera.

[Two23]

Yet I feel as though I am less their owner and more a conservator or steward. With care, they will each outlive me as they have outlived their first "owners".

You have a true antique artifact of photographic history. By all means, delight in it and use it. But I would strongly urge you to avoid modifying it from its original purpose. Have a new back made to take sheet film holders. There are craftsmen available on this board who can fabricate whatever it might take to allow you to shoot film in your camera and still keep it true to its beginnings.




That's pretty much how I feel about it. The camera is about 120 years old and I don't want to be the one that screws it up! Who are these people that can make me an adapter? So far they haven't responded to me.


Kent in SD

[Ash]

I'd sooner screw up a camera that was sitting unused for 80 years, than leave it unused for another 80.

[Steven Tribe]

I have re-read the first post.
As far as I can see, all you need is a decent set of 1/2 plate film sheaves. This was a standard size when Kodak Eastman produced them by the 1,000's. I sold a number of this size last year. They appear on ebay as well as here. It is a good system and Kodak printed what they were and size number on the back. The film sheaves can be loaded with film and inserted in the old plate back.
I assume your camera looks like:-
Does it have the fitments for the stereo option?

[Drew Bedo]

Try these websites:

http://starcameracompany.com/index.html

http://www.lg4mat.net/

[Two23]

I like the make an adapter out of black mat board best so far. After a careful look, here's what I'm finding. The half plate holders are in good shape but there is no light trap along the tops of them. I think the slides were designed to stay in and simply fold over while taking a shot? (photos 5 & 7) The holders have a notch in them and don't simply slide down like modern ones do. (First photo.) I'll have to cut out a tab to fit into that notch, otherwise the mat board adapter won't stay in place.

The holders have a piece of metal in them, but only one. One side is flat, and the other side has a spring. Is that all there is supposed to be inside them, other than two glass plates? I have some Kodak 4x5 film sheaths but I'm not sure how to keep them from shifting around. Maybe I could fill the space inside the holders with a thick piece of mat board etc.?

Below are some shots showing what I'm dealing with. Thanks for the links to the guys making adapters, but $250 is more than I think I need to spend.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

The final four photos, showing more details of the folding dark slide etc.:


Kent in SD

[Steven Tribe]

"I think the slides were designed to stay in and simply fold over while taking a shot?"

Correct - a very common system. It works well as long as the black fibre tape inside across the "bend" is in good condition.

"One side is flat, and the other side has a spring. Is that all there is supposed to be inside them, other than two glass plates?"

Yes. Most have similar springs on both sides. There will also be a end locking system (indent and spring).

"Maybe I could fill the space inside the holders with a thick piece of mat board etc.?"

Like film sheaves, these format changing inserts, were commercially available at the time. They are very thin but well-made wood frames. Most are designed for plate to plate reduction ( 1/1 plate to 5x7 or 1/2 plate to 4x5) but can be used for film sheaths. They were also produced in papier mâché. I have had a number of these reducing inserts and will post a photo later.

[Steven Tribe]

These plate adapters are from size 13x18cm to 10x15cm.

[Two23]

Thanks for all the ideas! Now I'm thinking of not trying to adapt to shoot regular 4x5 holders, but instead put mat board inserts into the holders that came with the camera. I think I can shim two pieces back to back so they put the film at the correct depth in the holders. I will try some of those semi-sticky mounts made for photos to hold the film in place. This will be cheap to try and keeps the vintage look intact as well. Thanks for the help!


Kent in SD

[edp]

Why not just shoot half-plate sized film?

[Steven Tribe]

In which case, he will still need 1/2 plate film sheaths for secure photography. These are in sort supply. But I agree with this solution. Those who are 1/2 platers are very happy with the format.

[Two23]

Why not just shoot half-plate sized film?

Can you give me a source? I haven't found any.


Kent in SD

[edp]

I've bought some from here a couple of times.

http://www.lumiere-shop.de/index.php?page=product&info=1670

I think half plate FP4+ and HP5+ was available in this year's Ilford special order, but I didn't get any because my freezer is full. Maybe somebody stockpiled some.