Adox MCC 110 & KRST

[chuck461]

I have noticed, as others have, that the Adox MCC 110 paper does not seem to change tone with selenium. I believe that to have any archival benefit from the toner that the paper must be toned enough to change the print color. So my question is: Is there any reason to put the Adox paper through the toner or am I just wasting time and chemistry? This is supposed to be the same paper as Agfa 111, so any experience with that should apply.

Thanks
Chuck

[Oren Grad]

I believe that to have any archival benefit from the toner that the paper must be toned enough to change the print color.

As a general rule, this is not correct. Papers vary radically in their response to selenium, and there is no consistent relationship between the amount of visible color change and the extent of conversion of the image silver.

[Sal Santamaura]

I have noticed, as others have, that the Adox MCC 110 paper does not seem to change tone with selenium...Is there any reason to put the Adox paper through the toner or am I just wasting time and chemistry? This is supposed to be the same paper as Agfa 111...In reverse order:

While based on the design of Agfa MCC 111, it's not "the same." Very close, but a bright white base and around 1/3-stop more sensitivity
Yes, there are good reasons to put the paper through toner. Doing so increases density of low values and eliminates the green color that results from processing in most developers
I finished establishing a toning regime for this paper just three days ago. After developing it in Print NE (the same as Agfa Neutol NE -- see http://www.freestylephoto.biz/9428-Rollei-Compard-Print-Neutol-NE-1.25-Liter), my optimum result was at 4 minutes in Ilford Selenium Toner diluted 1:10. Pleasingly deep blacks and the classic 'hint of purple' color change.

[Roger Cole]

In reverse order:

While based on the design of Agfa MCC 111, it's not "the same." Very close, but a bright white base and around 1/3-stop more sensitivity
Yes, there are good reasons to put the paper through toner. Doing so increases density of low values and eliminates the green color that results from processing in most developers
I finished establishing a toning regime for this paper just three days ago. After developing it in Print NE (the same as Agfa Neutol NE -- see http://www.freestylephoto.biz/9428-Rollei-Compard-Print-Neutol-NE-1.25-Liter), my optimum result was at 4 minutes in Ilford Selenium Toner diluted 1:10. Pleasingly deep blacks and the classic 'hint of purple' color change.


Interesting that you do find a color shift even if only removing the green (which is mainly what I want from selenium, plus increased d-max.) I have some MCC110 in my refrigerator waiting to try out, hopefully this weekend.

How does the Ilford ST compare to the Kodak? Would the same time/dilution in KRST likely produce similar results?

[Drew Wiley]

It can change color significantly with selenium. It just depends on the developer you
used in the first place and how far you let the developer go to completion. But it's a difficult paper to get a true cold tone from, if that's what you're after. It will split tone
too, but somewhat slowly. Just has its own personality. It's a rich paper and I like it for some images, but not for many others. A lot has to do with the final image color.

[Sal Santamaura]

...How does the Ilford ST compare to the Kodak? Would the same time/dilution in KRST likely produce similar results?I used KRST many years ago but haven't compared it to the Ilford product on current paper, so can't answer your question. The MSDSs:

https://www2.itap.purdue.edu/msds/docs/9711.pdf

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2009212911331407.pdf

exhibit different degrees of specificity on how much sodium selenite is contained in the concentrates, i.e. "2%" vs. "1-5%," so no help there. Unless someone else who has tested them against each other posts, I suggest you perform the trials and let us know. :)

[chuck461]

Thanks for all the responses.
I've been using Ansco 130 developer 1:1. KRST 1:20. Maybe I'll try a stronger dilution and see if it will tone for me.
I perceive the paper to be neutral in tone. I don't see much color in the tone at all. Just gray, which is what I like about it. Good mid tones. Seems to hold detail in the shadows too.

[Roger Cole]

I've toned plenty of MGIV RC in 1+20. Others insist it doesn't change in tone but I see a clear change away from green and an increase in d-max. If I can get that out of MCC 110 I'll be happy with the toning.

[Merg Ross]

Thanks for all the responses.
I've been using Ansco 130 developer 1:1. KRST 1:20. Maybe I'll try a stronger dilution and see if it will tone for me.
I perceive the paper to be neutral in tone. I don't see much color in the tone at all. Just gray, which is what I like about it. Good mid tones. Seems to hold detail in the shadows too.

I have gone through 500 sheets and it is now my preferred paper for most negatives. I tried toning with KRST, out of habit, when the paper was first marketed. I found no benefit re color shift, and am not a big fan of using toner for the so-called archival benefits. I have found that processing the paper in a slightly modified Ansco 130 developer gives beautiful prints with no detection of the aforementioned green color. I wish it were packaged in larger quantities, perhaps 100 sheet boxes. Truly, a beautiful paper.

[David Karp]

I love this paper too. It is becoming my favorite and unless a photo cries out for something else, I think it is the only paper I am going to use. I have used it with Agfa 100 print developer and KRST 1:20 for 5 minutes. Any shift is quite subtle but I believe that there is a slight deepening of the blacks.

[J D Clark]

Thanks for all the responses.
I've been using Ansco 130 developer 1:1. KRST 1:20. Maybe I'll try a stronger dilution and see if it will tone for me.
I perceive the paper to be neutral in tone. I don't see much color in the tone at all. Just gray, which is what I like about it. Good mid tones. Seems to hold detail in the shadows too.

Chuck,
At 1:20 there is no apparent change in color. However, in 1:9 KRST, which is what I used to use with Kodak Polymax, and [one version of] Oriental Seagull, will definitely change the color of ADOX MCC 110. I didn't like that color change at that dilution, and ended up using 1:19.

John Clark
www.johndclark.com

[Drew Wiley]

1:20 will work, but you just have to be very patient with it compared to many other
papers.

[Roger Cole]

I used to leave MGIV RC in 1+20 for more than ten minutes. It was pretty much impossible to over tone, and took that long for the shift to cooler (neutral really versus very slightly green) blacks and deeper d-max.

I didn't think MGIV RC was green either until I toned it and compared a toned to an untoned print. Then the untoned one looked faintly but distinctly green in comparison.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I tone this paper all of the time in selenium and it will for sure have a color shift. I develop it both in Clayton P20 and Ansco 130. What fixer are you using?

I find at a 1+10 dilution in selenium I get the color I like in about 2 minutes. I always use selenium at 1+10 for all papers and simply test to determine the time I prefer.

A simple test is to take a work print and cut it into 10 (or 12, whatever number suits your needs) squares, then number the back of each square 1 through 10. Dump all squares into the toner and set the timer for 10 minutes. At 1 minute intervals, take the square out that matches the time and put it into a holding bath. After 10 minutes and all squares are removed, rebuild the image on your viewing board in the sink and choose the color/time combination that looks best to you.

The Adox paper is outstanding.