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cyrus
16-Aug-2011, 08:35
"Developing - The Negative Technique ; a Focal Manual of Photo-Technique" by Jacobson (18th ed. 1980) suggests this for more even development. Anyone tried it, or is the wetting agent already included in most developers?

BradS
16-Aug-2011, 09:34
I do not remember where I read it but, some piece of Kodak Technical literature specifically says NOT to add photoflo to the developer. I think the admonition may have been specific to HC-110 but, like I said, I do not remember the specifics.

in any case, do not fix what is not broken.

johnielvis
16-Aug-2011, 09:46
are you having problems with unevenness, then just AGITATE more

putting foreign chemicals in the developer CAN'T help.

You even may get all sorts of foaming issues--developer foams by itself and photoflo always way overfoams on me with any type of motion.

I cant' prove it WON'T do any harm, and I can't prove it won't do any good, but I've never needed it ever.

I'd look to changing technique and using what you have rather than going for the magic pill....

don't treat the SYMPTOM....

Now, that will about force you to do the opposite, since it's ME talking....

Kirk Gittings
16-Aug-2011, 09:50
are you having problems with unevenness, then just AGITATE more

unless over-agitation is the source of your unevenness of course.......

I have always used PF in my developers when shuffle processing in trays-now for 33 years. I have never seen any problems with it.

johnielvis
16-Aug-2011, 09:52
and there it is....as expected

Kirk Gittings
16-Aug-2011, 09:55
I might ad that I use it to make the film more slippery. IME it makes the film easier to handle and less likely to stick together or scratch. I also use BTZS tubes and a slosher tray on occasion where I don't use PF and see no difference in the results.

IanG
16-Aug-2011, 10:02
It shouldn't be added to modern film developers, it can be more usefull with print developers.

You run the risk of foaming with films, particularly in inversion dev tanks, many commercial developers contain a very small quantity of long chain wetting agents, these don't foam. I need to add two drops to my Pyrocat HD to prevent air bells when I'm in Turkey where the local water lis excessively hard.

In addition to this most emulsions have a wetting agent added to help coating, when doing a long printing session it's noticeable how this builds up in the developer.

Ian

cyrus
16-Aug-2011, 10:45
I don't have a problem with unevenness myself but the idea of making the negs more slippery for tray processing is intriguing. Yes it may foam up in a tank but the film is supposed to be below the waterline anyway but maybe bubbles may still attach to the film? Anyway, nice to read old books for these sorts of things

Drew Wiley
16-Aug-2011, 10:46
I have sometimes used a tad of Photoflo in the presoak water for tray dev, but never in the dev itself. There is always the possibility this might alter ideal dev times a bit, just as the length itself of presoak will. For some developers, a tiny amt of 1% EDTA will help eveness.

IanG
16-Aug-2011, 11:07
I don't have a problem with unevenness myself but the idea of making the negs more slippery for tray processing is intriguing. Yes it may foam up in a tank but the film is supposed to be below the waterline anyway but maybe bubbles may still attach to the film? Anyway, nice to read old books for these sorts of things

The foam gets lodged around the edges of the spiral/holders and that is often below the liquid level.

I did some testing about 3 years ago, making visual inspections 5x4 in a Jobo 2000 (pre Rotary inversion tank), 120 in a Paterson tank. What I found was quite surprising because air bubbles formed at every stage regardless of a pre soak, no amount of tapping or agitation would remove them all. A very minute amount of wetting agent would but to much caused foaming and thats even harder to control once it start.

Ian

Merg Ross
16-Aug-2011, 11:51
For tray development, I add a weak solution of Balanced Alkali (Kodalk) to the presoak water; this makes the film slippery and easier to shuffle.

polyglot
16-Aug-2011, 16:44
For rotary, no. However when using a Paterson for 120, I always put in exactly one or two drops of photoflo per 500mL developer to prevent bubbles lodging in the spirals. It's enough to let the bubbles out (no amount of tapping will loosen them otherwise) but not enough to cause problematic foaming.

Works fine with D76, XTOL and Rodinal; no change in dev times. Come on, it's just soap.

Mark Sampson
16-Aug-2011, 18:05
This seems odd to me. I guess after 35 years in the b/w darkroom I still haven't heard it all- but that's good. In the late '70s I worked in a custom lab, among other things processing 100+ rolls of customer b/w film a week. We used stainless tanks and reels and D-76 1:1. There were rigid procedures, one of which was to 'purge' the reels weekly by soaking them in 100F running water "to remove the Photo-Flo residue". I was told that back-contamination with PF would cause developer streaking (which thankfully we never did see). I also ran a sheet-film line in the next darkroom; D-76 straight in 3-1/2 gallon tanks, and the procedure was the same with the hangers used for 4x5 and 8x10. So I've never considered putting wetting agent in the developer- although now, when tray-processing my own sheet film, I presoak it in a weak Kodalk bath as Merg Ross mentions above.

D. Bryant
16-Aug-2011, 18:12
For tray development, I add a weak solution of Balanced Alkali (Kodalk) to the presoak water; this makes the film slippery and easier to shuffle.

What Merg said. Or just a pinch (and I mean a pinch) of sodium carb in the presoak water. PF never, IMO.

D. Bryant
16-Aug-2011, 18:15
Come on, it's just soap.

Ah no, it's not soap. If it was we would use just soap.

cyrus
16-Aug-2011, 18:26
Well it is a surfactant which is what soap really is minus the coloring and perfumes. I often use a teeny tiny bit of dishsoap insyead of fotoflo.

Nathan Potter
16-Aug-2011, 19:58
I used to use 1 drop per liter PF a number of years ago with tank development then switched to a surfactant called Triton X-100. A bottle lasts forever. I think I got it from Fisher Scientific at least 15 years ago. Folks in a semiconductor fab turned me onto it. Designed not to foam in various acidic and basic solutions.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.