My new toy

[ghe67]

HI guys, finally received some parts to complete my Graflex XLSW set-up.
I'm waiting other parts to build another camera with different lens and with the rare Graflok 4x5 adapter i would use all my 4x5 stuff.
I've shoot some Polaroid 664 film with the camera to see how it work, well I'm not so happy about the Super-Angulon 47mm F8 lens, I don't know if they are the Pola films or whatever else but the images are not sharp at all.
Obviously I will shoot negative film soon to see the differences but I'd like to know if other members have the same sharpness issue with the lens.
Just a pic of the new baby.
Thanks
Giorgio

[jayabbas]

Nice cool looking camera -- hope you work the kinks out. That rig should have heads on a swivel when you go out with it no doubt. Keep us posted.

[architorture]

I have an old (1960's) vintage 47/5.6 single-coated lens that may be similar to your 47/8, which i've also been using with a homemade camera (6x9 in my case).

I have also not been happy with the sharpness. I'm not getting anything much better than worth ~2-3x enlargement. I also did try the lens on a proper studio 4x5 camera, to eliminate any issues caused by my homemade camera, and the results were similar.

I haven't given up yet, but I so far have not produced technically satisfying images. Some of them have been pretty interesting shots, but not of a high image quality.

This shot is the closest i've gotten to a sharp image:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/4425724570_d7f2dc50b4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skunstadt/4425724570/)
r01-f01 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/skunstadt/4425724570/) by s.kunstadt (http://www.flickr.com/people/skunstadt/), on Flickr

I look forward to seeing your next camera!

[ghe67]

I would be very happy if I could get the same sharpness of your photos...
Now, I will try to shoot some efke 50 film, I will see.
BTW, that is a very good pic.
Giorgio

[TheDeardorffGuy]

In a former life I was an optical tech. I recemented old lenses. My experience with Angulons is this. The older 6.8 Angulons were sharper than any Super Angulon and had better illumination across the format than the super angulons. But the Supers seemed to have better contrast. I had a full set of Supers at one time. I ended up selling them off and getting a set of 6.8 angulons. Just an opinion.

[armentor1@mac.com]

I've got one of these. So far only one roll of film has been through the camera. The tonality of the lens is strong, sharpness was softer than I'd expected.

Do you guys know about how much these are worth? I have one that I'm thinking about selling to help fund a 5x7.

[ghe67]

If the focusing mount/ring has a good tabs and it is soft to operate maybe I will buy it but I'm not interested in the lens, holder and the other bits.
How much are worth...? if everything is fully working you can ask 400$ for the lots more or less but bearing in mind that the cost is the lens alone, the other parts have very low price on the market.
Very nice camera BTW.
Ciao
Giorgio

[Adamphotoman]

I tried a very similar lens on a 6X9 roll back camera in the mid 1980's. The camera was a dedicated one with shift provision. Plaubel Makina? I was very dissatisfied with the whole rig. Everything from too small an image circle to unsharp images. I shot several rolls for a custom stair builder and also my 20mm Nikon. Who would have thunk that the 35mm images worked out better.
I took the rig back to the Camera store and renamed the lens Super Soft Wide Angle.
I ended up finding a Globus Scope 4X5 with a SW65mm F:8 JML Optic which proved to be a Super Sharp camera set up.
Grant

[Bill_1856]

Architorture -- WHAT A PICTURE! I literally got vertigo the first time that I looked at it. Thanks for posting it.
Bill

[GPS]

...
I've shoot some Polaroid 664 film with the camera to see how it work, well I'm not so happy about the Super-Angulon 47mm F8 lens, I don't know if they are the Pola films or whatever else but the images are not sharp at all.
Obviously I will shoot negative film soon to see the differences but I'd like to know if other members have the same sharpness issue with the lens.
Just a pic of the new baby.
Thanks
Giorgio

The most probable reason of the lack of sharpness with this short lens is the fact that you don't have the lens strictly plan-parallel to the film. Unless you have made it possible with your construction to fine tune the 2 planes you cannot reach the ideal with just home cutting a measured part. It is the most common constructional defect of all amateur constructions shown on this forum. Not knowing optical geometry enough, people just think that cutting plywood will do...

[ghe67]

GPS,
sorry but you said:

It is the most common constructional defect of all amateur constructions shown on this forum. Not knowing optical geometry enough, people just think that cutting plywood will do...

What are you speaking about?
Sorry but my set-up is the original standard Graflex XLSW with Graflex Polaroid back, it's a dedicate item for the camera.
I've not done any mods or other DIY job on the camera.
So, your consideration about the sharpness in this case is a non-sense, also I don't think that Graflex engineers have a few optical knowledge...:)
Ciao
Giorgio

[GPS]

GPS,
sorry but you said:

It is the most common constructional defect of all amateur constructions shown on this forum. Not knowing optical geometry enough, people just think that cutting plywood will do...

What are you speaking about?
Sorry but my set-up is the original standard Graflex XLSW with Graflex Polaroid back, it's a dedicate item for the camera.
I've not done any mods or other DIY job on the camera.
...
Giorgio


HI guys, finally received some parts to complete my Graflex XLSW set-up.
I'm waiting other parts to build another camera with different lens and with the rare Graflok 4x5 adapter i would use all my 4x5 stuff.
...
Giorgio

Well Giorgio, "to build another camera with different lens" are you own words that made me understand that you also "built" this one. How did you "built" this camera without "doing any mods or other DIY job on the camera" is beyond my understanding of "building a camera". :)
That aside, being it a Graflex camera doesn't mean it is well built for lenses of 47mm FL. Just know that making standards plan parallel for this short lens on this camera is not so easy either - I would still check on it. Have fun.

[ghe67]

Pardon Sir,
only english is not my language so not always easy to write exactly what I mean and also this time you have understood what you want...
Ciao
Giorgio

PS: building a camera was only to say that I was putting togrther original parts with difficoult availability.

[GPS]

Pardon Sir,
only english is not my language so not always easy to write exactly what I mean and also this time you have understood what you want...
Ciao
Giorgio

PS: building a camera was only to say that I was putting togrther original parts with difficoult availability.

Bene, bene, caro, costruisci quello que vuoi ma cerca di mantenere il parallelismo...:)

[ghe67]

I don't build anything, I'm just an assembler...

[Adamphotoman]

I just found the Proshift W Plaubel Makina camera on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plaubel-Makina-69W-Proshift-Schneider-Super-Angulon-/120563044936#vi-desc

It is actually a f:5.6. The seller wants $3800. perhaps? It was $1600 new in the 80's.
No place to align that camera.

So you have a great system for much less $$$

To get the best out of wides and , copy work I Zig Align my 4X5. It makes a huge difference. Maybe there is something out of alignment with your rig?

Or

I know an excellent photographer who learned the hard way that the tiny set screws on the shutter May Need to be removed. Or the lens can be skewed. I suppose that anything can happen.

Grant

[GPS]

I just found the Proshift W Plaubel Makina camera on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plaubel-Makina-69W-Proshift-Schneider-Super-Angulon-/120563044936#vi-desc

It is actually a f:5.6. The seller wants $3800. perhaps? It was $1600 new in the 80's.
No place to align that camera.
...
Grant

Why would you like to align that camera? It's not a home made one - it has been aligned in the factory (very probably in order of 0.001 mm).

[architorture]

Architorture -- WHAT A PICTURE! I literally got vertigo the first time that I looked at it. Thanks for posting it.
Bill

Thanks Bill!
It is one of my favorite shots.

So glad to see another thread of diy homemade/assembled cameras starting to grow on here. I wish I could have the time to make more...

[architorture]

I just found the Proshift W Plaubel Makina camera on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plaubel-Makina-69W-Proshift-Schneider-Super-Angulon-/120563044936#vi-desc

It is actually a f:5.6. The seller wants $3800. perhaps? It was $1600 new in the 80's.
No place to align that camera.

So you have a great system for much less $$$

To get the best out of wides and , copy work I Zig Align my 4X5. It makes a huge difference. Maybe there is something out of alignment with your rig?

Or

I know an excellent photographer who learned the hard way that the tiny set screws on the shutter May Need to be removed. Or the lens can be skewed. I suppose that anything can happen.

Grant

Very interesting to hear of your experiences with the plaubel proshift. I have been lusting over it ever since I started on the road of researching these types of cameras. I guess that's one camera I can cross off my list now...maybe...

[Adamphotoman]

GPS,
I wouldn't want to align that camera. What I meant by that statement was; that alignment is not the issue with the sharpness problem. I don't think that the lens design was all that good. Unless there is a pressure plate problem or maybe the viewing system was not set up right. I used it plenty stopped down and also I bracketed the focus as well.

Our friends lens here is a bit different as it is an f:8

could it be a GG problem or a roll back issue?

[GPS]

It could be whatever. Probably not set properly at infinity.

[Adamphotoman]

Actually we sent the camera back and they said there wasn't anything wrong with it.
The sharpness issue was fall off towards the edges. It got worse when you tried to use shift. The centre was fairly sharp. There was also barrel distortion and it couldn't keep straight lines straight.

[ghe67]

HI guys,
received today other parts for my new toy :)
THe XL body is in superb conditions, rangefinder working well and the focusing ring has a superb tabs/lugs!!
So, now I'm playing with all my parts WITHOUT BUILDING ANYTHING...:D !!!
The 4x5 Graflok adapter is the most interesting piece of the lot, I can shoot polaroid sheet films and it allows me to use 4x5 cut film holders, Grafmatic holder and all the stuff that generally fits on a 4x5 camera with internationalback, the negative size results as 8x10 cm.
Some bad pics of the stuff freshly arived form US, pictured also a Sinar Handy I've assembled using original Sinar parts for about 150$ :) , it's waiting some SK Grimes parts to use some of the Graflex XL lenses with better coverage.
Ciao
Giorgio

[aduncanson]

ghe67,

I do not know that back, or the Polaroid film you mentioned, but my experience is that photos on Polaroid prints do not show the sharpness capability of the lens and camera.

I have a Graflex XLSW with 47/8 Super Angulon like yours, and while I have not tried to make great enlargements from it, I have been very satisfied with negatives made with it. I got a Graflex RH8 roll film holder with mine and recently added a Horseman 6x9 roll film back because I perceive it as better built and because I expect it may provide better film flatness. But the truth is that I have seen no problems with my Graflex roll film holder.

I don't know your level of experience with LF photography. Are you stopping down to f/16 or below? You can not expect optimal sharpness near wide open they way that you might with excellent medium format equipment.

Best of Luck - Alan

[ghe67]

HI Alan,
thanks for your post.
I've shooted at f22 and less but as you said I'm not sure about Poòaroid print quality also outdated.
So, I will shoot negative film and I will see, I hope to get some quality results.
Ciao
Giorgio