Tachihara 8x10 and what lens for architecture?

[kamchow]

hi, i'm a noob at LF.

i'm about to get a tachihara 8x10.

i want to use it to take architectural photos.

the buildings are about 200 feet (60 m) high.

so, does the tach 8x10 have enough movements to handle 200 feet high buildings?

from a website, it has:

Rise 120mm
Swing 17° &17°
Tilt 40° & 30°
Back swing 25° & 25°
Back tilt 30° & 40°
Bellows extension Max 550mm Min 90mm

not 100% sure, but this does not have shifts.
i don't think not having shifts will affect me too much - but please advise me if i'm wrong.

also, what lens should i get for this?

or would you suggest i get some other 8x10 LF camera?

thanks for your help.

[Mark Stahlke]

does the tach 8x10 have enough movements to handle 200 feet high buildings?It depends on your distance from the building and the focal length of your lens.

[mandoman7]

Technically, you can get an expensive wide lens and a camera with lots of rise and get a shot that gets everything in. Sometimes very wide lenses and extreme movements can give really unsettling results, though. I would suggest finding a way to explore your visual ideas before spending 2 or 3 grand, in other words. I'd get a Calumet 4x5 (rail) and a cheap used Schneider for less than $500 and use the more reasonably priced 4x5 film to learn what my tastes are and what equipment I would really need if I were to delve more deeply.
Its hard to learn at $3 a shot (or more) and carrying huge, attention grabbing equipment in public.

[kamchow]

mark - i did ask what lens to get.

say i got a 300mm nikkor f5.6. what's the formula? i'm a simpleton - ain't no good at maths!

well ok, slap me with the maths and i'll try and play around with the formula to see what works with the tach810's rise.

mandoman7 - i hear thee.

but i'm getting the tach810 at a reasonable price - 2nd hand gear.

otherwise i would have done as you suggested and bought a 4x5.

i was looking at getting one of the shen-hao's, but this tach810 came along and swayed me.

thanks.

[kamchow]

oh - forgot to say that i could get a reducing back for the tach810 - bring it down to a 4x5 - and so save a bit of money by learning (wasting) 4x5 film!

yeah, it ain't dirt cheap, but it'll do.

[Michael Roberts]

The 300mm Nikkor f9 is a great lens for the 8x10 format, but I think for architectural work you'll want a wider lens--at least a 210mm--Schneider, Fuji, Nikkor are all good. You may want/need even wider such as a Nikkor 120. As Mark said, it depends on how near/far you are from the building. If you want a quick and dirty method for finding out what focal length you'll need, just cut out an 8x10 opening in a piece of cardboard and see how far from your eyes you need to hold the board to frame your subject; that's the focal length lens you'll need to compose on the 8x10 gg.

[kamchow]

michael - wider lenses like 210mm or 120mm - noted.
good advice about cutting out a piece of 8x10 cardboard and doing some leg work!
thanks.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I would suggest starting with a 75 to 90mm lens and a wide angle 4x5, like the short rail Calumet. If you are set on 8x10 and have cash to burn, I suggest a monorail (Sinar or Cambo perhaps) with a 150-165mm wide angle lens (150 Nikkor-SW, 155mm Rodenstock Grandagon, 165mm Schneider Super Angulon). I think that 210mm will be to long and the true wide angle 210mm lenses are difficult to find and VERY expensive. Wide angle 120mm lenses have no room for movement on 8x10.

[kamchow]

michael - i've read that a "300mm Nikkor f9" - as you stated - is just ok for 8x10.

but i should be using a "300mm f/5.6" as stated in post #4.

is this correct?

thanks

[Frank Petronio]

Choice of lens depends where you set the camera up. A Tachi is a pretty nice camera for normal pix but not something for serious architectural work. Read up and do your homework, listen to the people who suggest something smaller and cheaper to start with.

A real simple starting point would be what focal length would you use to photograph the same thing with a smaller camera? It is easy to find equivalent focal lengths for larger formats.

[kamchow]

frank & jason - post #8 was posted as i composed #9. hence i didn't see it in time. will take note of what jason wrote. thanks.

[Greg Blank]

Unless you plan on being 1/4 mile away or more from the building a 300mm is not a good choice -IMOP- its considered a normal focal length on par with a 50mm on 35mm cameras. The Tachihara would not be my choice for any architectural work. I have one "8x10" and the movements limit what can be done. I ground off the stop that limits the tilt of the front standard so I can shoot deeper DOF Landscapes . You will need a bag bellows, Tachiharas at least the one I have have a glued on non changable bellows. I have a 240mm lens for the 8x10 and its not wide enough for what you intend...IMOP. I think maybe a 165mm could be wide enough but that is the limit of bellows compression with the Tach. My 4x5 Gandolfi on the other hand has as much or more movement as any mono rail camera. For Architectural almost nothing beats a mono rail camera.

[sanchi heuser]

Just imagine a triangle:
bottom horizontal line is the ground (or a line parellel to the ground),
a vertical line in a right angle to the horizontal is your building
and an angular line is connecting the ends of hor. and vert. line.

Now imagine your lens is on the horizontal line opposite to the vertical and it's adjusted vertical.

Every lens has an angle of coverage, e.g. a Nikon-W 300 has 80° at f 22,
see this chart: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF8x10in.html
Now take the half of it, 40° and you have the angle between the
angular and horizontal line.
The right angle is of course 90°, and the third angle (between angular and
vertical is then 50°
Calculation: 180° - 40° - 90° = 50°
(In every triangle the angles sum up to 180°)

Now you can calculate the distance from the building with
a given height (point on vertical line)
to your lens (point on horizontal line)
with any given angle of coverage.

Let's say the height of the building is 60 meter,
just draw a point on the vertical exactly 120 millimeter from the bottom
(2mm = 1 meter in reality)
Then take an angle meter and mark an angle of 50°.
Draw a line in that angle from the top of the building down to the horizontal.
Where that line crosses the horizontal, there' s your approximately distance point to the building ( 2 millimeter = 1 meter in reality).
Voila!


Another thing what I wanted to say is, that wide angle lenses for 8x10" are not cheap, and you might consider, as others said before, to go 4x5.
You have the advantage to get use of lenses with e.g. 115° angle
(Schneider Super-Angulon XL 72mm though also not cheap :D ).
A greater range of focal lengths and better availibilty of used lenses on the market
and of course cheaper prices especially for wide angle lenses.
Enlargements from 4x5 are fine and if you have a good drum scan, which you can get for a reasonable price today, you can get quite large prints if you want.
For alternative prints one can get superb digital negatives.

Well, if you decide that you definitely wants to go 8x10, which is really
a great thing to work with, you need lot of money and patience to get the suitable
wide angle lenses - and I think you need wide angle lenses for architecture
in many situations.

Andi

[kamchow]

andi/sanchi - when you're right, you're right!

i think my heart (b*lls) ruled my head earlier.

well to be honest, in the last few hours, i looked at costs of the (very) wide lenses, cost of printing etc for a 8x10 system - and long-story-short - nope, i just cannot justify it.

so, 4x5 it is.

oh, and thanks for the maths lesson professor!

looks like a calumet 4x5 is as good a place to start as any.
and something in the 65mm to 75mm lens range.

thanks to everyone for "kicking my head in" !

[Michael Jones]

The 190 WF Ektar is what I used for most 8x10 exterior shots. Lost of view and movements that did not require a bag bellows. It's the functional equivalent a 90mm on 4x5. For interiors, you may want to go wider, say a 165 super angulon, but you will likely want bag bellows for movements.

BTW, I'm selling a 190 WF Ektar on a sinar board that would bolt right in...

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=79120


Please feel free to ask to Moderators to delete if you think is this inappropriate.


Good luck.

Mike

[sanchi heuser]

Oh no I'm no professor, only a simple trucker without any education:o

[kamchow]

m. jones - unfortunately i'm continents away. and shipping costs are high. plus insurance. sorry.

[ic-racer]

I'd suggest a 300mm if you have never shot 8x10. After a couple boxes of film you will have your own idea as to what works and what does not.

You will either 1) be satisfied with the Tachihara and that lens or
2) Sell them both to get a monrail and Super Angulon 210

[Andrew Plume]

andi/sanchi - when you're right, you're right!

i think my heart (b*lls) ruled my head earlier.

well to be honest, in the last few hours, i looked at costs of the (very) wide lenses, cost of printing etc for a 8x10 system - and long-story-short - nope, i just cannot justify it.

so, 4x5 it is.

oh, and thanks for the maths lesson professor!

looks like a calumet 4x5 is as good a place to start as any.
and something in the 65mm to 75mm lens range.

thanks to everyone for "kicking my head in" !


to me, you've made the right decision here - I have a 10x8 Tachi and as far as I'm concerned, it certainly couldn't be classified as an 'architectural camera', landscapes and portraits and general work yes but not architectural

anyhow best of luck

regards

andrew

[Brian Ellis]

I used a Tachihara 4x5 for architectural work and found it more than adequate. The 8x10 Tachiharas have movements very similar to those of a Deardorff and Deardorffs were the camera of choice for professional architectural photographers for decades. So you've made a fine choice of cameras IMHO. But I can't answer your question because there are too many variables (distance from the building being the main one).

[kamchow]

well brian, i've been swayed by the others and gave up on the tach 8x10.

going the monorail route - mob rule wins!

i can't find out details about the buildings as its overseas - remote areas - hard to find details.

so i suppose it's all the better to go monorail.

and to be brutally honest, the costs of 8x10 printing is a real killer.

[kamchow]

hey chaps & chapesses - a different topic...

a friend of mine is going to tokyo shortly.
i asked him to look around for 4x5 cameras out there.

do any of you know any shops / centres out there?
so i can point those places out to him - cut down on him wondering around like a lost tourist!

i know the japanese are mad about photography - but it is also expensive.

so, are there bargains to be found out there?

thanks.

[Brian Ellis]

well brian, i've been swayed by the others and gave up on the tach 8x10.

going the monorail route - mob rule wins!

i can't find out details about the buildings as its overseas - remote areas - hard to find details.

so i suppose it's all the better to go monorail.

and to be brutally honest, the costs of 8x10 printing is a real killer.

That's fine, maybe the monorail will work for you. But I've seen posts from literally a hundred or more people over the years who begin with a monorail and then come here asking which field camera they should replace it with for outdoor photography. I don't offhand remember anyone ever coming here and asking about the opposite, i.e. replacing their field camera with a monorail for outdoor photography. I'm sure there must have been a few but nowhere close to the number who want to replace their monorail with a field camera.

[Two23]

That's fine, maybe the monorail will work for you. But I've seen posts from literally a hundred or more people over the years who begin with a monorail and then come here asking which field camera they should replace it with for outdoor photography.


That's true. I first bought a Cambo 45NX 4x5, mainly because it was cheap. After lugging it around on backpacking trips and taking forever to set it up and pack it away, I saw the light. I bought a Shen Hao field camera. However, note how I was using the camera and what for. I need a lightweight, portable camera for hiking. I rarely shoot architecture and mostly shoot landscapes or abandoned farm houses etc. If I was mostly going to shoot architecture, and monorail suddenly makes a lot of sense.


Kent in SD