Tap water too warm for washing?

[wallrat]

My tap water is at 85F right now. I have some 120, 35 and 4x5 to develop. According to Illford Hypam info, spiral tanks can be washed by filling 3 times w/ agitation. I use a hypo clearing agent as well. I'm wondering if this would work ok for 4x5 in the Combi-Plan. I always follow the wash with photo-flo in distilled water.

I plan to develop most in Rodinal but I wanted to do PMK on some. I assume this wouldn't work with PMK since it needs the wash time to increase stain. Maybe with pmk I could let the third wash sit after agitating, before I empty it?

I searched for answers and found a ton of posts about washing, but all I could find were more general questions.

TIA,
-Bill

[Jim Michael]

You could build a heat exchanger: make a coil of copper tubing, attach hoses to each end, one end goes on faucet, other into tank, insert heat exchanger in a tub of ice and turn on the tap. Number of turns, input temperature, and flow rate determine output temperature.

[Gem Singer]

According to Ilford (Harman Tech.), their films contain hardened gelatin that can withstand temperatures up to 86 F before beginning to soften.

The tap water here in Texas runs 84-86 F during the summer, and washing at that temperature has not shown any adverse effects on Ilford HP-5+ film.

However, since you are filling, rinsing, emptying, and re-filling the tank for your washing sequence, merely cool down a one gallon container of water in your refrigerator and use it at 70-72 F.

[wallrat]

You could build a heat exchanger: make a coil of copper tubing, attach hoses to each end, one end goes on faucet, other into tank, insert heat exchanger in a tub of ice and turn on the tap. Number of turns, input temperature, and flow rate determine output temperature.

I am planning on buying a Wort Chiller just for this, but I want to develop soon and that will be a week or more before I get it.

Thanks,
-Bill

[wallrat]

I am planning on buying a Wort Chiller just for this, but I want to develop soon and that will be a week or more before I get it.

Thanks,
-Bill

I typically don't rinse this way. I thought about it for the reason you state above but I'm curious as to why Illford specifically recommends it for spiral tanks only.

-Bill

[Graybeard]

The maximum wash temperature may also depend on if you used a hardening fixer.

[wallrat]

The maximum wash temperature may also depend on if you used a hardening fixer.

I have both, but only use the hardener on the Adox / Efke. I assume temps can go higher if you use a hardener or am I wrong?

[D. Bryant]

I have both, but only use the hardener on the Adox / Efke. I assume temps can go higher if you use a hardener or am I wrong?

I wouldn't spend money for a chiller just for washing. 85F is safe for film and paper. Use a wash aid to minimize wash times.

You really don't need a hardener for 85F for modern formulations made by Kodak, Fuji, or Ilford. Adox/Efke are the exceptions.

[wallrat]

I wouldn't spend money for a chiller just for washing. 85F is safe for film and paper. Use a wash aid to minimize wash times.

You really don't need a hardener for 85F for modern formulations made by Kodak, Fuji, or Ilford. Adox/Efke are the exceptions.

Ok, good to hear 85 is ok. I'm going to test everything out tonight on some duplicate sheets using pmk and a running wash at 85. This will be the extreme test since wash times are considerably longer, no hypo clear, etc.

As for the hardener, yes, I only use it on Efke, Adox and a handful of softer emulsion films.

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. Hope you had a great weekend and a great week ahead.

-Bill

[Kevin Crisp]

85 is OK, just avoid big swings in temperature from solution to solution before you get there. It will be fine.

[Henry Ambrose]

Fill a five gallon bucket with water and let it sit overnight. The next day you'll have plenty of nice room temperature water. This is the cheapest and easiest way to have tempered water assuming that your ambient indoor temperature is within reason.

I'd fill and rinse more than three changes though -- I'd do ten or more.

[Dan Dozer]

Bill - I'm down in Palm Springs and our water is warmer than yours. Temperature in my darkroom is normally about 83 degrees. I use ice to get the developer temperature down to below 80 degrees. I use PMK for all my film developing. TF5 fixer at darkroom temperature for about 4 minutes, back in the PMK for 2 minutes (I know that Dale Hutchings says you don't need to do this, but I do it to help with the anit-halation layer), wash for about 2 minutes (running water and dumping out a couple of times), perma wash for about 1 1/2 minutes, back into new wash water for about 1 1/2 minutes, soak in tray with photo flo for a minute, then I'm done. Film I use is Delta 100 and HP5 and have never had any problems with the negs with this routine.

One word of advice - I used to use the old J&C film and with it's thin base, it was susceptable to fingerprints with warmer water temps. However, the Ilford film has never shown that problem.