5x7 green xray film

[Dcohio]

While doing some research I ran into a company that has 5x7 green sensitive xray film that goes by the name provisoN enterprises. The brand of xray film is MLG. I have never heard of the film. I would figure that it is house brand or imported. Has anyone used or heard of this brand? I will be contacting them Monday to see if they sell to private individuals. I will post the answer. They have it listed for $27.99 for 100count half speed green sensitive, at that price it's hard not to get excited.
Doug

[Mark Woods]

Jim Fitzgerald and I (among other) use green sensitive x-ray film. I have Fuji and another brand I don't have in front of me. Works great. Give it a shot.

[Dcohio]

I've read about how people are using it and have been planning on making a 5x12 back and use xray. I did find some 5x12 xray which will help. I've been learning carbon and everyone says xray builds contrast good. I've just haven't found 5x7 before

[mdm]

Where did you get it?

[Dcohio]

I'm waiting for a response the the place to see if the sell to private individuals or just business'. The companies name is provision enterprises and it looks like they are based in the us. Can't remember state.
Doug

[Mark Woods]

Do a search on line for x ray film in the size you want.

[Dcohio]

I talked to the company today and they will sell to any interested parties. Didn't ask about shipping out of country for those not in the states (sorry). The gentleman that does actual sales was out but I was told that I would get a response tomorrow on shipping and handling costs. Also for those interested I did see some 5x12 offered in blue and green sensitive, something I didn't see at offered at the sites listed in other threads.
Doug

[Jay DeFehr]

I use the green X-Ray film, and while it's ok for portraits, it's not as sharp as normal film with emulsion on one side as opposed to two. Vaughn Hutchins showed me some of his carbon prints made with X-ray film, and while I liked the soft effect, they were clearly not as sharp as his prints made with regular film.

I think the effect is interesting, as it relates to the way some soft focus lenses are described as producing a soft image over a sharp one, and it's kind of the way I see without my glasses, since I have one good eye and one that's not good at all. But for those who want the sharpest possible image, I don't think X-ray film is the best option.

[Dcohio]

Jay,
I appreciate your insight on xray film. My interest in this film came from some other threads I read and the want for larger formats without having my wife leave me when I order film for it. I currently only shoot 5x7 but I am working on building a5x12 back and bellows. They will probally take me forever to finish though. Oh well. I wasn't looking for a film replacement but just more of a different tool to use. The main reason I got excited was I thought I was going to have to cut 10x12 down andhave never seen 5x7 available. I'm looking forward to giving it a shot. Should be interesting. Thanks again Jay.
Doug

[Mark Woods]

I like the unique look of the x ray film. I see the difference in prints and actually prefer the x ray film over the standard film. I'm thinking of putting some mirror Mylar in some of the film holders to get the halation the early films and image had that were shot without the anti-halation backing. I just bought 100 sheets of Fuji Green sensitive 350 EI film. My initial images are really quite nice to my eye.

[mdm]

Thanks for the honest opinion Jay.

[Curt]

I like the unique look of the x ray film. I see the difference in prints and actually prefer the x ray film over the standard film. I'm thinking of putting some mirror Mylar in some of the film holders to get the halation the early films and image had that were shot without the anti-halation backing. I just bought 100 sheets of Fuji Green sensitive 350 EI film. My initial images are really quite nice to my eye.

Hi Mark,

What size are you shooting if you don't mind me asking?
I'll see you Saturday.

Curt

[Jay DeFehr]

I like the look, too, and I love the price. I think anything that encourages experimentation is a good thing, and I certainly can't afford to play with standard 8x10 film the way I can with the X-Ray stuff. I have some pretty wild ideas about how to develop this film that I don't dare mention for fear of (possibly justified) ridicule, but that's all part of the fun.

[DanK]

I've been following this thread and appreciate all the information...Thanks all...

I am curious as to speed ratings of x-ray film, and development - are these films rated in standard speeds and is it metered similarly to normal film, and will conventional film developers (like D76) work with them?

Also, what is the difference in blue vs. green film?

Thanks again,
Dan

[Jay DeFehr]

Dan,

I'm afraid I won't be much help here. I've only used the green stuff, and I haven't done any testing for film speed. I don't use a light meter, and estimate my exposures with bellows extension at around EI 100, and get satisfactory exposures. I've only developed my film in 510-Pyro, which suggests any standard developer would also work.

[Mark Woods]

Hello Curt, I shoot 11x14 & 8x10 with the x ray film. The difference between the different colors, i.e. green, blue, red, is that that is the light the film is sensitive to. If one were to shoot with the red (not having done this) I would expect the sky to be darker than normal. In the early days of film, most of it was ortho chromatic film. This caused the make-up people to use some very bizarre colors to get the actors to appear "normal." I can understand why one of the posters (Jay?) said he didn't like it for portraits. It's not panchromatic, although you can buy panchromatic x ray film.

I will be there Saturday. I have to leave around 3:30-4 for a previous engagement. Maybe we can put some plans into action in remembrance of Per.

Here is a photo I did of Per during a PP workshop I did along with Jim Fitzgerald's Carbon printing. Good times. Great conversations.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've been using green sensitive xray for a couple of years now. Hated it at first, love it now. Thanks for the lead on the cheaper stuff, Dcohio.
In regards to sharpness it is only noticeable if you do a side-by-side contact print comparision with a conventional film... the difference isn't worth getting worked up about. This film is not just for portraits. I use it for architectural work.
Although my main developer is pyrocat-hd, I've also developed green sensitive in, xtol, D-76, Ilford MG (paper) developer, Dectol, LC-1B, Rodinol, D-19. They all work well. EI 100 seems to work for me.

[Dcohio]

Andrew,
When you used rodinal what dillution do you use? I've heard 1:200 mentioned in other threads but that was it. The same mentioned for d-76, only heard reference to higher dilutions than normal but no specifics. Just would like a ballpark and then I can work it out from there. Thanks for any info.
Doug

[Dcohio]

All it took was just alittle more looking and I found my info on rodinal and d-76 times. I would still much appreciate hearing anybodies dev. Choice and times.
Thanks, Doug

[Andrew O'Neill]

I developed the xray film for carbon transfer printing. For Rodinol, I believe I diluted it at 1:100 for about 11 or 12 minutes, 21C, flat bottomed tray, gentle agitation every 30sec. Times for conventional printing would be around 7 or 8 minutes. Be sure to keep the "imaged" side of the negative facing up if you are using tray development. That's the sharpest side. Also be very careful when loading/unloading film holders, as film can be scratched as well at that stage. Another nice thing about this film is that you can handle it under a safelight (yellowy-orange to red). You can develop by inspection.
If you want your xray film to be sharper, and you will be printing them on silver gelatin papers, you could try stripping the emulsion from the backside. House hold bleach works fine. This will also cut the film's density range in half, so you would have to develop the film longer to keep a decent density range in the unstripped emulsion.

[Scott --]

I'm not getting the warm fuzzies I've gotten from previous X-ray film threads. So tell me: Can this stuff be made to behave like normal B&W film, or not? I'd like to use it as a cheap alternative to 10x12 film; I generally do some contact printing and a lot of scanning. Not carbon printing. Am I hoping for too much?

[Andrew O'Neill]

Scott,

No it cannot be made to behave like panchromatic film as xray is orthochromatic. But sometimes it sort of can, depending on what you are photographing. Yes, of course you can use it for other outputs than just carbon. For scanning, you'll want a thinner negative. I scanned in a very thin negative where I stripped the backside emulsion and it looks lovely. I posted this example in another thread. Green sensitive 8x10 exposed through wratten #8 (light yellow) filter. The actual test print is slightly lighter than the uploaded image. Hope this was warmer and fuzzier for you!:)

[Scott --]

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm feeling discouraged a bit by this. Orthochromatic is fine; it's sharpness and detail I'm hoping for. Having to strip the backside emulsion is bordering on a deal-breaker for me - don't want the added hassle. Even with softer portraits, I like to have something sharp in the image; I'm a'feared now that this may not be easily obtainable with X-ray. Which throws my future with the 10x12 a bit in jeopardy...

[Jay DeFehr]

Scott,

It comes down to your definition of sharp enough. I'm satisfied that X-ray film is not as sharp as film with emulsion on only one side, but it is sharp enough for me...most of the time. If I want ultimate sharpness, I'll use standard film. I'm interested in the opportunities for experimentation, but if you want the sharpest possible results and you're not interested in experimenting, you might be happier with standard films.

[Roger Cole]

How do you do the stripping?

[Scott --]

Re: thicker bleaches - there are numerous thick cleaners that are bleach-based and purport to be non-abrasive. Might want to browse the cleaner aisle to the local grocery store...

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well Scott, the only way to know if it'll work for you is to get a box and try it out.

[Mark Woods]

BTW, red sensitive x ray film is sensitive to red safe lights. The green, red, & blue x ray film, by definition is orthochromatic. That is, is sensitive to only the "correct color of light." Not just not sensitive to red light.

[Jay DeFehr]

Mark,

I'm confused (big surprise). I understood films sensitive only to blue to be classified as plain, while films sensitive to blue and green to be orthochromatic, and films sensitive to red, green and blue to be panchromatic. I've never heard of a film being sensitive to only green, or red. Even IR film is sensitive to blue and green, and a deep red filter has to be used to minimize the contribution of those parts of the spectrum for the IR effect. Also, I've never seen red sensitive X-ray film offered. Do you have a link?

[kirkmacatangay]

Mark,

Is there a link for the Red x-ray film? I am interested in a source for that version of film.

Kirk

[Andrew O'Neill]

Kirk, I've searched for it quite a while yesterday but couldn't locate any. Mark?

[Dcohio]

Talked with the company today. This is a house brand, can't advertise who makes it but it starts with k and ends with k. Said I should receive film in a few days. Order process is alittle funky. Order online wait for response by phone. Pretty weird. Thats what they make fraud protection for I guess. A just in case thought. Hopefully it goes good and will be testing next week.
Doug

[Andrew O'Neill]

Which type are you getting?

[Mark Woods]

Here's a link to the Red Sensitive:

http://jindalphoto.com/x-ray_films.html

I looked at the site that I normally use, and I couldn't find the Red. The link here is for laser exposure. Could be very interesting.

My bad about my statement about the green and blue being orthochromatic. I was basing it on my research on ortho meaning "correct" as in correct color. In photography it means the film is sensitive to all colors except red. One should look at what nanometers it isn't sensitive.

"Orthochromatic photography refers to a photographic emulsion that is sensitive to only blue and green light, and thus can be processed with a red safelight. The increased blue sensitivity causes blue objects to appear lighter and red ones darker. A cyan lens filter—which removes red light—can be used with standard panchromatic film to produce a similar effect."


"Panchromatic film is a type of black-and-white photographic film that is sensitive to all wavelengths of visible light."

I hope this helps.

[Jay DeFehr]

It seems the red-sensitive film is for laser printer exposure. It's single sided, and optionally comes on a clear base (LI-HMc), and there's an IR version, too. I don't think these films are very sensitive, since they can be loaded in room light. Kodak makes a similar product called Ektascan.

I think a fast, green sensitive, single sided film is the best bet for pictorial photography, but these different flavors of film certainly present opportunities for experimentation.

[Dcohio]

Andrew,
i ordered the green sensitive half speed in 5x7.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Comes in infra-red, eh? Interesting...

[Jay DeFehr]

Scott,

Check this out:

http://www.zzmedical.com/zencart/xray-film-xray-film-bargain-bin-c-28_165.html?zenid=f9cb53fc584228031ad4b0fde6fc0235

[Dcohio]

In one of my last posts I mentioned that the order process is alittle funky and it is. I received an invoice email that they ask you to fax back. My take Is that they a very small business. I actually talked to the owner in one of my conversations (i think he was covering the phones on the receptionists lunch). Shipping wasn't too high (shipping would of been the same for 3 boxes) $13, which brought the total to $40 for 100 sheets of 5x7. hopefully all goes well.
Doug

[rknewcomb]

"It seems the red-sensitive film is for laser printer exposure. It's single sided,"

In addition to this mention of the red sensitive film, I believe that I've heard that some other x-ray film is coated on one side only - its an option of sorts. Maybe some of you who have researched x-ray film more can shake my memory about this possibility.

[Jay DeFehr]

Mammography film is one-sided, and so is duplicating film.

[DarkroomDan]

...In addition to this mention of the red sensitive film, I believe that I've heard that some other x-ray film is coated on one side only - its an option of sorts.

I seem to recall reading that mammography x-ray film is single sided. My only experience with x-ray films is with x-ray duplicating film. It is single sided but isn't actually intended to be exposed by x-ray.

Dan

[Jay DeFehr]

Dan,

How sensitive is the duplicating film?

[DarkroomDan]

Dan,

How sensitive is the duplicating film?

Jay, It is very slow. I don't have any speed index for the material I am using but, when I am enlarging 35mm negs to 8x10, I am getting exposure times of several minutes (5 to 8) with the enlarger lens wide open. I have been developing it in D-72 1:3. This gives me negs that I can use for carbon printing.

Dan

[Jay DeFehr]

Thanks, Dan. I assumed as much, but wanted to confirm. How is it working for enlarged negatives (aside from the long exposure times)?

[Dcohio]

Dan,
Thanks for posting this as I'm sure this will come in handy for images not suited for some printing processes.
Doug

[DarkroomDan]

Thanks, Dan. I assumed as much, but wanted to confirm. How is it working for enlarged negatives (aside from the long exposure times)?

I have only made about a dozen negative enlargements. There are enough controls available to adjust the contrast to work with various processes but I really prefer using my large format in-camera negatives.

In my previous post I didn't mention that I have taken to using the developer as single shot. I was having problems with working out exposures with test strips and then finding my full size sheet would not match my chosen test exposure.

Dan

[Jay DeFehr]

Hi Dan,

It seems to me exposure and development are (mostly) separate issues. Once you find the exposure that produces acceptable tone through the densest part of the negative, then you adjust contrast with development, right? Did you mean to write that once you worked out the contrast with test strips, you found your full size sheets didn't match your test strips?

I prefer using my in-camera negs, too!:D

[DarkroomDan]

Hi Dan,

Did you mean to write that once you worked out the contrast with test strips, you found your full size sheets didn't match your test strips?

Yep :o

Dan

[Dcohio]

Film came in today. Package says that it is made in Belgium and finished in USA. Not sure who coats films in Belgium. Tested a couple holders for light tightness with it and the film seems like it will work for some ideas I have. I tray processed in rodinal at 1-150 for 14 min. at an EI of 100. Just a quick still life using a 250 watt halogen and umbrella. The negs are drying but look ok for silver but way too thin for carbon. I will have to experiment and nail down and EI and times, but in that lighting I think an EI of 50 would be closer. Don't feel too bad experimenting with this stuff at $40 with shipping for 100 sheets. I didn't scratch the negs up that bad using trays and I was not gentle at all but I will be cutting some glass to put in my trays this weekend.
Doug

[Jay DeFehr]

Remember, halogen light is very red, and your film is blind to red. Your EI will likely be much higher in daylight. Have fun!

[willrea]

Film came in today. Package says that it is made in Belgium and finished in USA. Not sure who coats films in Belgium.

Agfa had a plant in Belgium. I think it's still running under a different company. I'm still confused how and who took control of what after Agfa went under.

[Dcohio]

Remember, halogen light is very red, and your film is blind to red. Your EI will likely be much higher in daylight. Have fun!

Jay,
Thank you for this tip. I understand there is a more full spectrum of light outside and how full will depend conditions( shade, full sun, reflected light,etc). Do you have a rough ballpark EI's you use for different lighting conditions? I know these may not apply to my shooting but I am curious. Mother nature can be tough and you wouldn't be able to nail down an exact EI for every situation but a rough 1 would help in a lot of situations.
Thanks,
Doug

[Andrew O'Neill]

Dcohio, as Jay stated, halogen light is more in the red spectrum so it might be a good idea to do an EI test. Also, watch out for reciprocity effects. I ran a test a couple of years ago, and this film is greatly affected by exposures 1 second and longer. Some people claim that they don't bother with exposure/dev compensation, but my tests show otherwise. I think I posted my findings somewhere in this forum. I'll attach it here so you don't have to look for it...
I just ordered some (agfa) green latitude in 14x17. Did cxs put their prices up? If I recall, it was around $80 in your money about a year ago...Now it's $102. Hmmmm, have they caught on that we photographers like this stuff or something?

[Jim Noel]

Jay, It is very slow. I don't have any speed index for the material I am using but, when I am enlarging 35mm negs to 8x10, I am getting exposure times of several minutes (5 to 8) with the enlarger lens wide open. I have been developing it in D-72 1:3. This gives me negs that I can use for carbon printing.

Dan

The reason for the "slow" response is the light source. Green sensitive xray film responds at an EI of 100-125. The light source in your enlarger contains a lot of red in its spectrum - the film is not responsive to red.

[LabRat]

The reason for the "slow" response is the light source. Green sensitive xray film responds at an EI of 100-125. The light source in your enlarger contains a lot of red in its spectrum - the film is not responsive to red.

This is where an LED head would come in very handy, as even white LED's have much more green/blue and some UV in the output...

Much of the halogen bulbs output is in IR...

Steve K

[pjd]

Interesting thread, I was starting to wonder about the source of this 5x7 x ray film - when I noticed the thread is from 2011.