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Will Frostmill
18-Jul-2011, 09:56
Hi,
I'm new at LF, and I'm interested in reproducing some of the interesting halation effects that were common with some kinds of plate photography. My understanding is that the halos are caused by light reflecting off the back of the film or plate and causing a secondary exposure. I think the amount of spread is greater with glass plates than with film since the material is thicker and lets the light spread out more before it reaches the emulsion. I think the intensity of the secondary exposure must have to do with the reflectiveness of the back surface.

So:
Am I on the right track if I attach x-ray film to the front of ordinary glass, reflective mylar film to the back, and put the sandwich into a plate holder?

And if I am on the right track, I've got a million questions about plate holders, glass, adhesives, etc.

(Also, I won't be offended if someone demonstrates that this is trivial to do in photoshop.)

Will

Oren Grad
18-Jul-2011, 10:00
You can get plenty of halation with ordinary film, lenses and holders just by shooting into the light and exposing very generously.

Kirk Gittings
18-Jul-2011, 10:04
I think he's talking about that nice glow you got around light sources in antique processes-much more appealing IMO than what you get on modern films.

Will Frostmill
18-Jul-2011, 10:08
Well that makes things simple now, doesn't it! Thanks Oren, that is really helpful, and probably added a few years to my working life.

*shuffles feet* gee, it seemed like so much fun to make it complicated...

Will

Will Frostmill
18-Jul-2011, 10:24
Kirk,
Yes, essentially that. I first came across examples of that on The Online Photographer, which I can't find now, or I'd link them. I know it's a common feature of some IR films, but they make for poor examples because it's hard to sort out Hall effect stuff, diffuse IR, and red filter punchiness. I've never thought to try the obvious, like Oren suggests.

Kirk Gittings
18-Jul-2011, 10:34
I know what you are talking about but personally I have not any experience with it. I have seen some very pleasing results of that kind with antique soft focus lenses and or antique processes. Somebody will chime in.

Oren Grad
18-Jul-2011, 10:39
For a variety of reasons, I tend to expose generously, so I see halation effects on my roll and sheet film fairly commonly. I usually don't mind it; it goes with the medium. FWIW, I use mostly TX roll film and HP5 Plus sheet film; that may matter.

It's certainly possible that there will be some differences in the "flavor" of the halation effects you'll get with glass plates, older lenses, etc., and that one might find those more interesting. Apologies if I sounded dismissive; it wasn't intended that way. It's just that Will mentioned that he was new at LF, and I do have a bias toward advising beginners to keep things simple at the start.

Will Frostmill
18-Jul-2011, 10:59
Oren,
I didn't take that as dismissive at all, and I quite agree about keeping things simple.
I'm in continuous conflict between the desire to make good photographs as simply an efficiently as possible, and the desire to complicate technical things as much as possible in the spirit of play. You gave me good advice.

Will

Oren Grad
18-Jul-2011, 11:12
...and the desire to complicate technical things as much as possible in the spirit of play.

If we had a "thumbs up" smiley I'd insert it here. :)

Brian C. Miller
18-Jul-2011, 13:47
There are films available without an antihalation backing. You could try the Efke Aura film for what you want.

Another option is to use a good soft filter, like Tiffen SoftFX or Zeiss Softar.

Vaughn
18-Jul-2011, 15:15
I suggest just sliding in a piece of x-ray film into a regular holder along with a piece of white paper behind it. Just to give you a start. But the shiny milar might be interesting!

Then you can go about finding images that work well with your set up! Have fun!

Vaughn

Bob Salomon
18-Jul-2011, 15:47
Or use a Rodenstock Imagon at a 5:1 lighting ratio, or greater using the second disk fully open or the first disk fully closed. For extreme halation don't use any disk. The Imagon will diffuse the highlights into the shadows where most diffusion disks or soft focus filters, except for the Softar, diffuse the shadows into the highlights. That is not the effect you said you wanted.

dwross
19-Jul-2011, 10:07
I love halation. Many years ago, I got a really nice effect by spray painting the inside of a film holder shiny silver. (I let it off-gas in the sun for days first.) I used TriX 4x5 and an old'ish lens (i.e. not antique and not modern multi-coated.) Normal everything else, if memory serves. A couple of years ago, in a frenzy of studio mucking-out to make room for new projects, I threw out the prints. Now, I wish I'd kept them to compare with the old process I currently work in. Lesson: build more studio -- never throw away! :)

Will,
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Luck and fun to you.

jnantz
19-Jul-2011, 13:57
why don't you soak your modern film, remove the AH layer, hang it to dry in a dark place
then either use it in a plate holder with a pice of glass behind ... or put it in your
film holder ...

have fun

dwross
20-Jul-2011, 06:39
John,

I've never tried the soaking trick. Clever! Does it work with all films?
d

jnantz
20-Jul-2011, 07:39
John,

I've never tried the soaking trick. Clever! Does it work with all films?
d

hi denise

not sure but i know whenever i process film, no matter the kind
i pre-soak it and all the dye is removed ... so its worth a try ..
i think the hard part would be hanging it in a place where the now tacky
emulsion wouldn't stick to anything ...

- john

Stephen Benskin
20-Jul-2011, 17:42
Something that also might help is to place something more reflective in the holder behind the film. Tin foil for instance.