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Daniel Stone
17-Jul-2011, 19:38
hey all,

I was just watching this for kicks, but since I have a Red Dot Artar 47" I'm trying to get into some hands, maybe my price is a tad low ;)?

listed by one of our "favorite" sellers, Dagor77

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180694277543&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123

but really, $11,327.00?

jeez man... what makes an APO Ronar CL all that much different than a Red Dot Artar of comparable focal length?

-Dan

William Whitaker
17-Jul-2011, 19:48
And it started at 77!! That's a strange looking sequence of bid amounts. Kind of makes you wonder what the last two bidders were thinking...

Louis Pacilla
17-Jul-2011, 20:05
Wow!

Alan Gales
17-Jul-2011, 20:30
Good for Andrew! I just hope he gets paid.

Steven Tribe
18-Jul-2011, 01:19
I think the bidding is very typical. Two new bidders in the last minute (and last second in one case) with large random high amounts to ensure that they got it. When two or more play at this game, the winner can get to pay, in a few percentage of cases, a great deal more than he expected.

cdholden
18-Jul-2011, 03:49
I've seen a few comments online, some even here, that people will put down some exorbitant amount, just to insure that they get it.
"I don't care. I want it." Crazy...

eddie
18-Jul-2011, 04:21
great deal for andrew. makes me wish i had one to sell!

who knows? maybe it was one of the guys from this thread (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=77525) that talked about throwing down a stupid number to ensure they won.....and with out a sniping service.....so who got it? :)

cdholden
18-Jul-2011, 05:05
Yeah. I bet he's doing cartwheels. It's a great day at Casa Del Dagor when payment clears.

Daniel Stone
18-Jul-2011, 06:31
Despite a PM to me from someone here thinking I'm "whining" by posting this thread, I'm not. I'm just surprised by the sudden "jump" in pricing on the bidding. $1300-11k, in one bid. Jeesh.

Happy days at the Dagor camp!

great job Andrew, another winner :)!

-Dan

Bob Salomon
18-Jul-2011, 07:02
I would like to know exactly what is the definition of "unopened"? Same as new, in the box?

BrianShaw
18-Jul-2011, 07:21
I'm just surprised by the sudden "jump" in pricing on the bidding. $1300-11k, in one bid. Jeesh.


me too!

johnielvis
18-Jul-2011, 07:44
W O W

now i don't feel so bad for the 5g's I spent on the 1200 xxl....and mine was new too.

I suspect that the newer lens is superior also, but to tell the truth, they're both probably so good you can't really compare them practically.

falth j
18-Jul-2011, 08:17
which leads to the question who 'really' said:


'there's a sucker born every minute'?


or, maybe more appropriately,


'there's a sucker born in the last five seconds of an ebay auction' ?

domaz
18-Jul-2011, 08:30
With the really obscure stuff you enter the domain of the super-rich. They don't care about how much money they spend- they probably make $11,000 a day. Or I suppose it could just be two people with too-high limits on their credit cards. Probably the latter.

dsphotog
18-Jul-2011, 09:02
I'd guess the "winner" will claim he miskeyed in a last second panic bid.

jnantz
18-Jul-2011, 09:04
doesn't sound strange to me ...
someone here is selling a lens for $30K ...

SocalAstro
18-Jul-2011, 09:25
doesn't sound strange to me ...
someone here is selling a lens for $30K ...

Exactly. These aren't lenses that come up everyday and if one REALLY NEEDED or WANTED one they'd have to pay accordingly :-)

-Leon

Alan Gales
18-Jul-2011, 17:12
Hey for all you guys who missed out there is another 1000mm APO Ronar on ebay. The item # is 200631994285. It is buy it now for $10,000.00! :D

8x10 user
18-Jul-2011, 18:16
I don't know which would be better...

The XXL is a 4-element artar type lens while the big Ronar is an 8-element "modified artar" type. The XXL is multicoated and is shutter ready while the Big Ronar would need a behind lens shutter option. The XXL in a shutter has a smaller aperture which might make it a bit less sharp wide open to due diffraction. Also it would be darker on the GG. The XXL is multicoated, and there is a barrel option that gives a bigger aperture.



W O W

now i don't feel so bad for the 5g's I spent on the 1200 xxl....and mine was new too.

I suspect that the newer lens is superior also, but to tell the truth, they're both probably so good you can't really compare them practically.

johnielvis
18-Jul-2011, 21:56
the xxl I got was barrel---f14....not the f22...AND I got a nifty set of waterhouse stops and a NICE case and a cleaning kit....

less elements, more contrast...that's why I decided to get it...that and my name engraved on the lens.

my lens will be worth billions one day.....

Scotty230358
18-Jul-2011, 23:03
Hey for all you guys who missed out there is another 1000mm APO Ronar on ebay. The item # is 200631994285. It is buy it now for $10,000.00! :D

And guess who the seller originally bought it from.

Steve M Hostetter
20-Jul-2011, 07:35
W O W

now i don't feel so bad for the 5g's I spent on the 1200 xxl....and mine was new too.

I suspect that the newer lens is superior also, but to tell the truth, they're both probably so good you can't really compare them practically.

yeah, well at least your new 1200 xxl has a shutter??

Alan Gales
20-Jul-2011, 08:22
And guess who the seller originally bought it from.

Yeah, I saw that. Good ole Andrew!

Alan Gales
20-Jul-2011, 08:27
I wish I could afford some Dagor77 lenses. All I have been able to buy from Andrew is some of his inexpensive books!

daytona
20-Jul-2011, 10:50
http://cgi.ebay.com/ULTRARARE-Rodenstock-1000mm-F16-APO-Ronar-HR-CL-unused-/200631994285?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DMRU-625%252BUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D180694277543%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1480201902284974830

CP Goerz
22-Jul-2011, 10:41
It is a rather nice lens I have to say, performance is far better at wider apertures than with the red dot. This particular CL version is always talked about in hushed tones by process guys as being an absolute beast in sharpness terms, they still change hands for over $8K even in this computerized stage of their business.


I bought a few from a process lens dealer who retired many years ago who has since passed away ,they had never ever been used and the boxes are still factory sealed etc.


Hey, if you think that price for a (truly) amazing lens is outrageous then look at photo arsenal's starting bids...he gets my vote for breathtaking :-)

Bill_1856
22-Jul-2011, 11:42
Hey, C. P. GOERZ what ever happened to all those TRUE???? tall tales about finding all your treasures?

jayabbas
22-Jul-2011, 12:34
Hey for all you guys who missed out there is another 1000mm APO Ronar on ebay. The item # is 200631994285. It is buy it now for $10,000.00! :D

Yeah I saw that and thought "Ultrarare" -- the money comin outta my wallet is ultrarare. Man I have way less then ten G's in all of my LF gear combined. Can anyone say "magic bullet chaser". Whew !!!

jan staller
22-Jul-2011, 12:34
I am going to assume that the second to last bid of US $11,227.00 was the bid that cleared the reserve, assuming that this was a reserve auction. If it wasn't a reserve auction, then there were two buyers willing to pay at least $11,227.00 and one that would pay slightly more. How they decided what the value of this lens would be is beyond my reckoning.

Dan Fromm
22-Jul-2011, 12:42
I am going to assume that the second to last bid of US $11,227.00 was the bid that cleared the reserve, assuming that this was a reserve auction. If it wasn't a reserve auction, then there were two buyers willing to pay at least $11,227.00 and one that would pay slightly more. How they decided what the value of this lens would be is beyond my reckoning.

Very simple. iwantitiwantitiwantit, followed by "If I bid insanely high I'll get it for sure. No one else will bid insanely high." This is the eBay bidding strategy once advocated by the person who posts here as Leigh. Every once in a while two people who pursue that strategy collide, sometimes spectacularly. The person who posts as Leigh has been in an eBay trainwreck since it advocated bidding to win; it says it has stopped trying to buy via eBay.

John Schneider
22-Jul-2011, 16:46
The person who posts as Leigh has been in an eBay trainwreck since it advocated bidding to win; it says it has stopped trying to buy via eBay.

very odd use of pronouns :confused:

Dan Fromm
22-Jul-2011, 17:24
very odd use of pronouns :confused:The person who posts as Leigh's gender is unknown. Could be male, female, neuter. "It" includes all three, so seems the least offensive.

CP Goerz
22-Jul-2011, 17:30
Hey, C. P. GOERZ what ever happened to all those TRUE???? tall tales about finding all your treasures?



What about em? ;-) I don't have as much time to write like I used to(if you are asking about frequency). Ebay has changed quite a bit over the years and it isn't quite the same but then if I'm impressed by a certain optic the words will surely flow.......:-)


As for the '11K lens' I'd like to think that we LF folk would be able to see the lens as something special that 99.99999% of everyone else in the world would have no appreciation of whatsoever, seems that two folk do though.


I can't afford every lens but will probably pay more than most for something special, thats one of my priorities and of course it doesn't have to be yours but I am willing to bet if you are reading this its because you have probably spent more money on cameras/photographica than most. :-)


PS:The lens had no reserve...some things just sell themselves ;-)

Alan Gales
22-Jul-2011, 18:06
Andrew, you are definitely the Hemingway of Ebay. :)

Vaughn
22-Jul-2011, 18:21
I wish I could afford some Dagor77 lenses. All I have been able to buy from Andrew is some of his inexpensive books!

I have bought a few lenses from Dagor77 -- none too dear (19" RD Artar, a neat little Graphic-Raptar 210mm). You get what you pay for...and sometimes one does not need more!

I have a very nice 600mm Apo Ronar CL that I will eventually sell -- I wish it could bring as much per mm as the really big dogs! I do not think I will be able to get back all of the $400 I paid for it -- it is nice to look at, but that is all I have done with it since I bought is several years ago. It ended up being too big of a beast for my 8x10 (Sinar 5.5" boards)...and I have a 24" RD Artar that suits me fine.

Vaughn

Alan Gales
22-Jul-2011, 18:43
Thanks but 600mm is way too long for me. Now if you have a 19" RD Artar in a modern shutter for $400.00 I would be all over that. Of course I know that I am dreaming!

John Jarosz
23-Jul-2011, 05:26
Very simple. iwantitiwantitiwantit, followed by "If I bid insanely high I'll get it for sure. No one else will bid insanely high."

I agree. But the opposite is true as well. I've been keeping a list of the long lenses sold for the last couple of years and both the ridiculous high end and low end are represented. It simply depends on who is looking at items for sale at any given time and the quality and accuracy of the description in the listing. Of course most of the sales are "average" pricing. But there are representatives of disproportionate high and low selling prices. (And it depends on one's personal definition of "high" and "low").

Joseph O'Neil
23-Jul-2011, 07:29
I have a very nice 600mm Apo Ronar CL that I will eventually sell -- I wish it could bring as much per mm as the really big dogs! I do not think I will be able to get back all of the $400 I paid for it -- it is nice to look at, but that is all I have done with it since I bought is several years ago. It ended up being too big of a beast for my 8x10 (Sinar 5.5" boards)...and I have a 24" RD Artar that suits me fine.

Vaughn

Before I bought my 8x10, I tried to sell my 600mm apo-ronar. I think I tried asking $600, hoping to get $500 or even $450, and my highest offer at the time was $250. I use it now, and despite it's size, have it mounted on a lensboard for my 8x10. Not that it sees much use, but it is there when I need it. Very nice and sharp lens too.

You know something though - if I had a 1,000mm lens that I knew I could get 10 or 11Gs for certian, I would sell it ASAP too, regardless of how "rare" it is. My son is heading to college in the fall, and that kind of money sure would go a long way.

(yeah, I know, dream on, eh?)

:D

Dan Fromm
23-Jul-2011, 09:04
I agree. But the opposite is true as well. I've been keeping a list of the long lenses sold for the last couple of years and both the ridiculous high end and low end are represented. It simply depends on who is looking at items for sale at any given time and the quality and accuracy of the description in the listing. Of course most of the sales are "average" pricing. But there are representatives of disproportionate high and low selling prices. (And it depends on one's personal definition of "high" and "low").Y'know, John, I try to be a disciplined bidder when trying to buy at auction. I decide how much I'm willing to pay, set up a snipe, and wait to be trampled by other snipers. I've been trampled a lot.

But the few long lenses I have were all bargains. In fact, all of my lenses have been bargains, including the 900/10 Apo Saphir. I still don't understand how all of the ULF guys missed that one.

Cheers,

Dan

8x10 user
30-Jul-2011, 14:28
So Andrew... Please tell us, was the bid an error? Did you get paid for the lens?

Tony Karnezis
30-Jul-2011, 15:06
I have bought a few lenses from Dagor77 -- none too dear (19" RD Artar, a neat little Graphic-Raptar 210mm). You get what you pay for...and sometimes one does not need more!

I have a very nice 600mm Apo Ronar CL that I will eventually sell -- I wish it could bring as much per mm as the really big dogs! I do not think I will be able to get back all of the $400 I paid for it -- it is nice to look at, but that is all I have done with it since I bought is several years ago. It ended up being too big of a beast for my 8x10 (Sinar 5.5" boards)...and I have a 24" RD Artar that suits me fine.

Vaughn

Vaughn, brilliant minds think alike. Or perhaps not too brilliant since neither of us shot with our Ronars. I sold mine for a loss and bought a 24" RD Artar as well.

As for the lens in question, I hope whoever paid $11k for it will put it to very good use.

daytona
5-Aug-2011, 09:07
Rodenstock Apo Ronar 1000mm f/16 CL
US $3,138.88
Item number: 110722169581

8x10 user
5-Aug-2011, 11:37
Rodenstock 1000mm F16 APO Ronar HR CL unused

US $5,000

Item number: 200631994285

dh003i
8-Aug-2011, 03:17
But then there are ones like this:

Item # 180703948709
1070mm Rodenstock CL Ronar F14
$706.96

My friend Tim pointed out that it probably sold for less than it would have otherwise due to fears of a market crash (surrounding the US credit-downgrade). I almost bid on it, but decided to let it pass. I hadn't really done enough thinking about it and it would have been an impulse-bid.

Two23
8-Aug-2011, 06:52
Very simple. iwantitiwantitiwantit, followed by "If I bid insanely high I'll get it for sure. No one else will bid insanely high." This is the eBay bidding strategy once advocated by the person who posts here as Leigh. Every once in a while two people who pursue that strategy collide, sometimes spectacularly. .

That's actually my strategy too, on something I feel I absolutely have to have. If I think an items will go for $300, I'll bid $2,000 just to foil the snipers. A few years ago I did end up with a $700 bid on a postcard I wanted. I went ahead and paid it, even though the price was seven times its market value.


Kent in SD

domaz
8-Aug-2011, 07:21
That's actually my strategy too, on something I feel I absolutely have to have. If I think an items will go for $300, I'll bid $2,000 just to foil the snipers. A few years ago I did end up with a $700 bid on a postcard I wanted. I went ahead and paid it, even though the price was seven times its market value.


A similar and perhaps safer auction strategy is to bid up the price fairly high (bidding against yourself if necessary) early in the auction. The snipers and low ballers just stay away and won't even add it to their watch list. I've seen this work for fairly common items, for rare items I doubt it would work.

Marco Annaratone
8-Aug-2011, 11:03
I may be wrong but the 1070mm was a four-glass lens, not a six or eight glass lens like the expensive ones that just went on E**y. Not that I personally care, but apparently those collecting these things do.

I had some time ago an email exchange with Andrew G. re: my 1000/16. The one I have has several dimensional specs that differ both from the data sheet of the "vanilla" 1000/16 and of the HR version, e.g., its length is 202mm and not 192mm, the thread diameter is 127mm instead of 115mm.

My impression if that these lenses were rare enough and (perhaps) built-to-order that Rodenstock never cared much about keeping the data sheet up-to-date. It's just a guess.

Joerg Krusche
9-Aug-2011, 01:48
Hi,

all of the recently offered and sold Apo Ronar's -CL 16/1000 were the latest 6-element version .. independent from what was said on e++ .. plus a non-applying sheet was shown .. the wrong information was probably taken from the original purchases from C.P. ** .. may be that not too many actually ever mounted or even used that superb lens .. which indeed is a pity .. but for collectors owning and looking at such a beauty may be all they want .. btw there were even very few MC-versions.

best,

joerg

CP Goerz
9-Aug-2011, 08:27
Actually both sellers just 'took' the clip of the lens that I had on my page, I've yet to see a cutaway drawing of a six element..have you by any chance got one? I won't pull apart any glass like those to check as I don't want to goof with any alignment.


There is also a very good chance(as a prior poster mentioned) that Rodenstock may have changed their own specs, we'll never really know.

Jim Fitzgerald
9-Aug-2011, 09:13
Andrew, Congrat's. Nice to be rewarded! Take Artara out to diner!

Joerg Krusche
9-Aug-2011, 10:23
Andrew,

it is in one of their repro brochures .. just don't know in which one .. would be interesting to hear how owners managed to get the 16/1000 on the camera .. would not need to be on a walnut Canham ...,

joerg

Marco Annaratone
10-Aug-2011, 05:54
Andrew,

it is in one of their repro brochures .. just don't know in which one .. would be interesting to hear how owners managed to get the 16/1000 on the camera .. would not need to be on a walnut Canham ...,

joerg

On a 14x17 Lotus (sorry for the poor quality of the pix). This is just to show off in a forum :D for I always use a second tripod right below the front standard. And I do not front tilt. Never :)

http://www.resonantlink.com/LF/lotus14x17_apo-ronar1000.jpg

Brian Ellis
10-Aug-2011, 06:47
That's actually my strategy too, on something I feel I absolutely have to have. If I think an items will go for $300, I'll bid $2,000 just to foil the snipers. A few years ago I did end up with a $700 bid on a postcard I wanted. I went ahead and paid it, even though the price was seven times its market value.


Kent in SD

Why one earth would you take that kind of chance just to "foil the snipers?" I don't get it, is there supposed to be something morally wrong with sending a bid in at the last few seconds of an auction?

Joerg Krusche
10-Aug-2011, 09:15
Marco,

compliments .. impressive !!!.. is that the 16/1000 ? .. looks so small ! .. is it extended to 1 meter ? .. use of a shutter or hat ? .. did you shoot with that lens ? .. purpose is contact prints or do you consider scanning and printing ?

thank you for the link !

joerg

CP Goerz
10-Aug-2011, 10:04
Why one earth would you take that kind of chance just to "foil the snipers?" I don't get it, is there supposed to be something morally wrong with sending a bid in at the last few seconds of an auction?



Hey B,



I often ask myself the same question, in my experience the majority of cases of someone 'overbidding' on an item is because two people follow this same strategy. The thing is that after the dust settles most high bidders will say ....'Oh, it was an accident and didn't mean to bid that much...' Kudos to the prior poster for sticking to his obligation, most don't.


I think for the most part its a 'lets get it then decide if I want it at that price' situation.

Marco Annaratone
11-Aug-2011, 07:53
Marco,

compliments .. impressive !!!.. is that the 16/1000 ? .. looks so small ! .. is it extended to 1 meter ? .. use of a shutter or hat ? .. did you shoot with that lens ? .. purpose is contact prints or do you consider scanning and printing ?

thank you for the link !

joerg

Thank you !!

It's the 16/1000. Maximum bellows extension of this Lotus is 1200mm. I just got the lensboard for the Apo-Ronar, so no pictures yet. I shoot in-camera ilfochrome and soon (not yet) Kraus silber gelatin. I support the concept of limited editions of ... 1.

Cheers!