Gold Toned Vandyke

[sanking]

For those interested in printing with the iron processes I have a new article at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/GTV/gtv.html

People have been making gold toned vandykes and kallitypes for a long time but my article describes specific working procedures designed to optimize Dmax (or refletive shadow density) and to tone to completion in order to replace as much of the silver image as possible with gold metal. If worked correctly this printing method should give prints that are comprised to a very high percentage of gold metal, giving them high image permanence.

Sandy King

[Philippe Grunchec]

Sandy, congratulations, your article is really excellent!
Do you think it would be possible to use Tetenal Goldtoner for that purpose? Should it be diluted? Thanks in advance for your answer!

[evan clarke]

Nice article, Thanks, Sandy...Evan Clarke

[sanking]

Sandy, congratulations, your article is really excellent!
Do you think it would be possible to use Tetenal Goldtoner for that purpose? Should it be diluted? Thanks in advance for your answer!

Hi Philippe,

Thanks for your generous comment.

I believe it should be possible to substitute Tetenal for the formula I proposed, and/or other gold toners, though you might have to use a different dilution than the one used for silver gelatin printing. The main issue is that when you tone to completion the image should be bluish/black, not purplish/black as you see in many gold toned vandykes.

Sandy

[cjbroadbent]

Sandy, A big thank-you for the clear and detailed description of the process. I've been following your posts, here and elsewhere, for a few years and have re-learned good practice from them.

[Joe Smigiel]

Sandy,

I have been toning VDBs in Clerc's thiourea-gold formula for awhile now and I really prefer the bluish hue the gold imarts. However, I usually tone to get a split-tone in the color between the reddish VDB and the purple-blue of the gold. You mention somewhere that toning fully to blue rather than purple-blue converts about 90% of the silver to gold and that is much preferred from an archival standpoint.

Can you relate any figures on just partially toning with gold? Does the gold coat some of the silver rather than replacing it and what would you assume the life expectancy of such a split-toned print to be?

Thanks again for the article.

Joe

[Mark Sampson]

Sandy, thanks for a great article; it's well-written and researched. This printing process is one I'd consider if I ever go back to 8x10.

[sanking]

Sandy,

Can you relate any figures on just partially toning with gold? Does the gold coat some of the silver rather than replacing it and what would you assume the life expectancy of such a split-toned print to be?

Thanks again for the article.

Joe

Joe,

I can not give any specific figures regarding the replacement of silver with gold with partially toned prints but from my perspective it seems pretty certain that unless all of the image is very bluish/black (and not purplish black which indicates that toning has not been to completion) then those areas of the print that are not bluish-black contain a fair amount of silver.

One could test this in practice by placing a print in a reducing bath and noting how much image density is lost after five or ten minutes. A print that is comprised mostly of gold metal should lose very little density. On the other hand, silver will be easily bleached.

Sandy

[Philippe Grunchec]

Why not tone the shadows with selenium and the highlights with gold, as "we" do with regular prints?

[D. Bryant]

Why not tone the shadows with selenium and the highlights with gold, as "we" do with regular prints?

Here is the short answer. Selenium toners don't play nice with VDBs. The most common selenium toners use ammonium thiosulfate which will quickly degrade a VDB image, such as Kodak Rapid Selenium toner.

KRS can be used but only if extremely diluted which greatly diminishes the toning ability. Experimentation is the key if you wish to use these.

Also for maximum image permanace gold toners are superior to selenium toners.

[Philippe Grunchec]

Ed Buffaloe (http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Ferric/ferric.html) wrote: "Selenium toning is best done after fixing, since selenium tends to have a slight reducing effect which is much more pronounced if toning is done before fixing. Simply mix 3 to 5 milliliters of Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner in a liter of water."

[D. Bryant]

Ed Buffaloe (http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Ferric/ferric.html) wrote: "Selenium toning is best done after fixing, since selenium tends to have a slight reducing effect which is much more pronounced if toning is done before fixing. Simply mix 3 to 5 milliliters of Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner in a liter of water."

Phillippe, if you tone in gold to completion first then selenium toning will have no effect for toning.

If you want to tone with a selenium and gold toner you have to tone in selenium prior to the gold toner prior to fixing the image.

You have to tone with the least noble metal first. That means you can't tone in selenium to completion and as such the selenium may not have much of an effect.

I've seen VDBs toned in selenium and they look very nice but as I said before selenium and gold don't play well together. The key is to experiment.

You may wish to try 10 grams of KSR per liter of water for selenium toning prior to fixing.

[Philippe Grunchec]

Sandy, as you said in your article, the gold thiourea formula given first tones the highlights (as, I think, do Tetenal Goldtoner and Moersch MT9). Why then not use a formula which tones all densities at the same time (Moersch MT10 for example)?

[sanking]

Sandy, as you said in your article, the gold thiourea formula given first tones the highlights (as, I think, do Tetenal Goldtoner and Moersch MT9). Why then not use a formula which tones all densities at the same time (Moersch MT10 for example)?


Philippe,

First, the gold thiourea toner that I use can be mixed for a fraction of the cost of Moersch MT10. I know what it contains, and understand how it work. And the fact that it tones first the highlights, then the shadows, is not a disadvantage for me. Will the Moersch MT10 tone a vandyke print to completion? I don't know. Give it a shot and let me know. And if it does work, how much solution is needed to tone to completion a 20X25cm print?

There are clearly many ways to tone vandyke prints. My method is designed to give maximum Dmax with gold toning, and tone to completion. I am not saying it is the only method that can achieve this goal. Perhaps other toners will work equally well.

Sandy

[coops]

I am interested in trying this but am really computer challenged. Is there a website where curves for digital negatives can be downloaded or purchased? I would imagine if the printer and media are the same, only small changes may be needed to the curve. I did a Google search but did not have any luck

[D. Bryant]

I am interested in trying this but am really computer challenged. Is there a website where curves for digital negatives can be downloaded or purchased? I would imagine if the printer and media are the same, only small changes may be needed to the curve. I did a Google search but did not have any luck

Visit DPUG.ORG for some sample or starter curves using QTR, but you will need to install sofyware and be able to deal other computer related issues.

[olive92]

Hi,

i encounter an issue with Clerc's thiourea-gold formula on Van Dyke prints:

When i use this toning formula before fixing the print i observe than the white parts of the image (highlights) become yellowish slowly and continue to become a dirty yellow even in the washing bath after this toning step. The fixing stage does not eliminate this yellow.

This issue reduces my overall contrast, change the color and prevents to obtain clear whites. Its really sad because at the beginning of the toning step the colors are very nice.

If i fix the print before toning this issue does not appear.

I don't understand what's wrong with my process.

Thank you for your help.

Olivier

PS: sorry for my english level

[Jim Noel]

Sandy,
Thanks for the article.
I have toned VDB in gold/thiourea toners for about 20 years. I have never taken the time to go through the exhaustive testing you have done. Sometimes I tone to completion, and sometimes not as I am more interested in the final print color than anything else, and of course this varies with the image. I am 84 and assume all of my prints will outlast me by many years, but I really appreciate your expertise and input on this beautiful process.

[sanking]

Sandy,
Thanks for the article.
I have toned VDB in gold/thiourea toners for about 20 years. I have never taken the time to go through the exhaustive testing you have done. Sometimes I tone to completion, and sometimes not as I am more interested in the final print color than anything else, and of course this varies with the image. I am 84 and assume all of my prints will outlast me by many years, but I really appreciate your expertise and input on this beautiful process.

Hi Jim,

Gold toned VDB is a beautiful process when you get it right. But even with all of the testing I still encounter periods when nothing seems to go right. Glad you are still enjoying working with it.

Sandy

[sanking]

You probably are not clearing the print of silver nitrate and residual iron in the water bath developer. Here is what I do.

"Development is two slightly acidic water baths, for two minutes in each, followed by a rinse. It is essential that the bath be slightly acidic to avoid staining from residual iron. The right pH is achieved by adding about a teaspoonful of citric acid per gallon of water."

It is also possible, though less likely, that there is some problem with the toner.

Sandy



Hi,

i encounter an issue with Clerc's thiourea-gold formula on Van Dyke prints:

When i use this toning formula before fixing the print i observe than the white parts of the image (highlights) become yellowish slowly and continue to become a dirty yellow even in the washing bath after this toning step. The fixing stage does not eliminate this yellow.

This issue reduces my overall contrast, change the color and prevents to obtain clear whites. Its really sad because at the beginning of the toning step the colors are very nice.

If i fix the print before toning this issue does not appear.

I don't understand what's wrong with my process.

Thank you for your help.

Olivier

PS: sorry for my english level

[olive92]

Hi Sandy,

Thank you for your answer.

i wash the print before toning with 3 baths:

#1: water with citric acid (pH about 4 to 5) for 5 min

#2: water with less citric acid for 2 min

#3: only water for 3 min

#4: toning bath for 4 to 5 min. I use only 20 mL of toner for a 7 x 5 inchs, perhaps it's too little.

Perhaps, the issue comes from the toner... When i add the thiourea solution to the gold one, a yellow/orange precipitate is formed which is then dissolved with the addition of thiourea then i add the water containing the sodium chloride and the tartric acid. Finally i obtain a clear and colorless solution that i use a few minutes after.

[D. Bryant]

I've experienced the same or similar problems that you have with ferric silver based processes such as VDB, Agyrotype, and kallitype prints.

First don't use a water rinse at all before toning. I use 3 successive 2 minute clearing baths comprised of a 3% solution of citric acid.

Second, I use a smaller volume of solution in a tray 1 size larger than the paper sheet you are printing on; after the the print is finished it's 2 minute bath I transfer the print to a clean tray and repeat until all 3 baths are complete.

Third, I use the clearing baths 1 shot, that is they are dumped and not reused after 1 use.

Forth, you can experiment to see if a water wash prior to printing affects the staining at this point prior to the fixing step. And do rinse thoroughly after toning. Use your toner as a 1 shot solution.

Fifth, don't overuse the fixer, the proper dilution is weak and exhausts quickly, again I use this as a 1 shot.

FWIW, I also use a wash water filter that removes chlorine. These can usually be found online and are relatively inexpensive - compared to the cost of the precious metals you are using.

Finally, the make and type of paper can make a big difference for your results.

Good luck.

[olive92]

Thank you to help me.

I also use filtred water, the same that i use for the water i drink to eliminate chlorine but i use a much weaker citric acid solution than you (just a pinch for a liter of water) and probably i don't eliminate ferric compounds correctly. I never reuse my first bath which becomes slightly "milky" with only one print but reuse the next one. I never reuse neither the toner nor the fixer (2 % sodium hypo; 2 minutes fixing).

I join the toning print made on fabriano artistico.

I'll make another try next week with a stronger citric acid solution.

103987

[olive92]

Hi,

i've made some improvements to my process and now i've got the attached print (to compare to my previous one).

104405

I need to improve density because i find the black are not dense enough... Perhaps i have to apply 2 coatings the second after the first is dry. Sandy says that some paper needs to be immerge into citric acid solution and dried before use...

See you soon.

Olivier

[olive92]

Hi,

i' ve got better results now.
What do you think about it ?

108079

I have treated my paper with 0.5 % citric acid and let it dry before coating.

The color is not really yet what i want: i would like a cooler black and more contrast.

What do you use to enhance contrast ?
I read dichromate can be use in the developer stage but i have added 10 drops at 5 % to 250 mL of tap water for several minutes after the initial water bath but without results...:confused:


Olivier

[D. Bryant]

Assuming you've solved your clearing / staining problems. You now need to determine the exposure scale of your printing process. And then make negatives that fit the process.

You can determine this with a step tablet. And then arrive at the proper exposure/development time of your film empirically through test printing (or use a densitometer.)

IOW, your negatives lack proper contrast and you can't make it up successfully with contrast additives. Those are useful when your negative is off slightly.

Or learn to make digital negatives that fit your process scale.

The answers are simple but require work through testing.

[olive92]

Assuming you've solved your clearing / staining problems. You now need to determine the exposure scale of your printing process. And then make negatives that fit the process.

You can determine this with a step tablet. And then arrive at the proper exposure/development time of your film empirically through test printing (or use a densitometer.)

IOW, your negatives lack proper contrast and you can't make it up successfully with contrast additives. Those are useful when your negative is off slightly.

Or learn to make digital negatives that fit your process scale.

The answers are simple but require work through testing.

I'have already made this job by trying multiple exposure time and i've generated a correction curve with a stouffer range but i think i print my digital negative on a (too) cheap ink jet film which does not permit to obtain dense blacks (green in fact because i use a UV color filter).

I must try others inkjet films.

Olivier