offered big camera - buy?

[Emil Schildt]

got an offer for a rather big studiocamera.

The camera looks nice! oak tree, as far as I can see..
on an old tripod, that has some issues (worm holes I think).

Unknown maker (?) - unknown/unnamed lens.

Matt screen approx 310x310mm

the problem is, that there's no cassettes for it....
Can I find some? can some be made?

Should I buy?

Price good (?): about 375$

[big_ben_blue]

Looks like everyone built these things from the same blue print back then. I bought a very similar camera earlier this year (180$). It's about the same screen size, WITH the holder but no groundglass panel. The holder is one of those bulky tambour style boxes - impossible to find and impractically to be copied. Maybe an adapter back would be a solution?

[Steven Tribe]

This is a Universal Salon Apparat D in the medium size 24x30cm. The total extension will be about 125cm!
A touch of woodworm!
I'm sure that some holders will be listed of ebay.de at some stage. Problem is to recognise them - there wont be any other bidders!
Who is Lotte Degn (jpg label)?
Buy! I'll give you 1/2 for the lens unseen!

[Emil Schildt]

This is a Universal Salon Apparat D in the medium size 24x30cm. The total extension will be about 125cm!
A touch of woodworm!
I'm sure that some holders will be listed of ebay.de at some stage. Problem is to recognise them - there wont be any other bidders!
Who is Lotte Degn (jpg label)?
Buy! I'll give you 1/2 for the lens unseen!

I have bought it.

My "evil" twin will take care of it for the time being. He will pick it up tomorrow...

Interesting to see what lens it is..

Woodworm, yes - but I can proberly remidy that..

[Steven Tribe]

It will be a series II/III Euryscope or the fastest Suter equivalent, perhaps. Date is from around 1905, I would guess.

[cdholden]

Euryscopes are dangerous.
Send them to me and I will make sure they are disposed of properly. :)

[Emil Schildt]

Euryscopes are dangerous.
Send them to me and I will make sure they are disposed of properly. :)

And I have a couple sitting (lurking maybe) around here somewhere.... Am I in danger?....:rolleyes:

[tom thomas]

Euryscopes are OK as long as they remain in (Eury)ope. They get overly aggressive in the US due to the wide open spaces.

Tom

[Jim Fitzgerald]

So Emil, if it is a Suter, I have a proper Suter to keep it company here! I'm sure they would love to get to know each other!!!

[cdholden]

Indeed. I have a couple also, but I'm sure they would welcome a new friend in Series II or III that covers 8x10.

[George E. Sheils]

Gandolfi, congratulations on the purchase !

It looks to be a fine and handsome camera.

I'd imagine it would be very suitable for wet plate process?

Very nice indeed.

[Steven Tribe]

Sorry guys, but I am seeing Emil this summer! At least Eddie is safely back across the Atlantic with his many, many kilos of excess baggage!
I have the feeling that is a Suter A, size 4, which is, unfortunately, the size I already have!

[Emil Schildt]

I should make a lotteryticket...

And the one that gets it right, gets it...:rolleyes:

I'm amazed that you seem so "sure" on what it is...

Time will tell - my twin is supposed to fetch it today, and then he will take some pictures....

[Steven Tribe]

My logic is:

Probably original studio set-up from early 1900's. Petzvals go longer necessary for Studio use.
German camera design with a lens that must have been popular in the German dominated European area.
Not a Heliar.
Very "clean" design that looks like the Euryscope/Suter Aplanat design.
Diameter is well under 10cm (lens board is 20cm) which supports the above.

[jnantz]

emil:

if you plan to use it for paper negatives,
it is a piece of cake to make big paper negative holders
AND a viewing back both out of foam-core/cardboard. i have done it
a handful of times and it works great for " in studio " kind of shooting

have fun with your new toy!
john

[Scott Davis]

As long as you have the original back to use, holders can be made to fit, but of course it will take time and $$$.

[Steven Tribe]

Well I found your camera stand in a 1910 calaogue, Emil-
It is a genuine "no name" model 4 available in Walnut or Mat Black-
You can see the mechanism in action.

[Emil Schildt]

Well I found your camera stand in a 1910 calaogue, Emil-
It is a genuine "no name" model 4 available in Walnut or Mat Black-
You can see the mechanism in action.

so cool!

I have another stand sitting here somewhere - looking a little like it....

(I have found a springback for sale.. thinking it might be able to fit it on the camera....)

Or I have to make use of my "status" as special friend of the museum of photography in Herning....

they have a lot of old holders with no owners... it might be possible to find one..

[Greg Blank]

[QUOTE=gandolfi;749847]got an offer for a rather big studiocamera.

The camera looks nice! oak tree, as far as I can see..
on an old tripod, that has some issues (worm holes I think).

& You will never carry that anywere except inside a studio.

Unknown maker (?) - unknown/unnamed lens. Doesn't matter.

Matt screen approx 310x310mm

the problem is, that there's no cassettes for it.... DeaL KILLER.
Can I find some NO?

can some be made? YES,...provided you actually want to spend money.

Should I buy? No.

Price good = NO

I would give the seller 150. Tops.

[Louis Pacilla]

[QUOTE=gandolfi;749847]got an offer for a rather big studiocamera.

The camera looks nice! oak tree, as far as I can see..
on an old tripod, that has some issues (worm holes I think).

& You will never carry that anywere except inside a studio.

Unknown maker (?) - unknown/unnamed lens. Doesn't matter.

Matt screen approx 310x310mm

the problem is, that there's no cassettes for it.... DeaL KILLER.
Can I find some NO?

can some be made? YES,...provided you actually want to spend money.

Should I buy? No.

Price good = NO

I would give the seller 150. Tops.

Huh? What? I don't get it. Emil already bought it.

I think the price was very very fair. Heck $150 you gotta be kidding. Right? Shit the lens would sale for $400-$500 usd alone.

[goamules]

Yeah, it's a good price. Even if you calculate the stand, camera, lens are worth $200 each, you did good. I bought two cameras in Europe recently for more than that just to get the lenses. Now I'm thinking I want to use the 24x30 cm one. Gandolfi, when you figure out how to make a plate holder let me know....I'll need one too for my European camera!

[Steven Tribe]

I suggest Emil does research at his local camera museum.
I have some reasonably engraved images from a catalogue.
The first photo shows the standard holder type inserted. The second shows a reducing back which could be purchased at the same. I have the remains of one of these with the very distinctive brass plate with 3 positions.
Both of these (and some other engravings that were not as clear) show a back loading system for the plates!

[akfreak]

Still no mention as to what Glass lives on that beast?

[Emil Schildt]

[QUOTE=gandolfi;749847]got an offer for a rather big studiocamera.

The camera looks nice! oak tree, as far as I can see..
on an old tripod, that has some issues (worm holes I think).

& You will never carry that anywere except inside a studio.

Unknown maker (?) - unknown/unnamed lens. Doesn't matter.

Matt screen approx 310x310mm

the problem is, that there's no cassettes for it.... DeaL KILLER.
Can I find some NO?

can some be made? YES,...provided you actually want to spend money.

Should I buy? No.

Price good = NO

I would give the seller 150. Tops.

:D

we're not alike I think...

First: I will not let a camera like this stay in a damp cellar to be ruined.

Second: If I can't find cassettes (and I think I can, or can have one made (I am getting close as we speak)), I'd rather givet it to the museum mentioned.
It's just money....


The rest of you: thank you for all your cemments.

No : no news as of yet as to what lens it is - my twin will pick it up, but this can only be done this tuesday..
I'll let you know as soon as I know...

Steven: this looks great - good to see what I am going to look for.
I'll attach an image I found on the bay.. looks like it (?), but unfortunately too big...

I'm happy to own this beauty. I do have another camera this size, but I wanted to get one, my twin could borrow and use... time will tell.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Emil, I could not agree with you more. I could not let a camera like that sit and be ruined either. Yes, let us know about the lens when you can. It is a nice addition to your collection.

[Steven Tribe]

Yes I recognise this design from brochures.
It was used on the biggest type - ranging from 40x50 to 80x100cm. Like yours, the ground glass was always square and the dark slide had the maximum size width. The frame containing the plate was moved through 90 degrees - so the dark slide was always in the horizontal position.
Another engraving of the back design you found.

[big_ben_blue]

The holder for my camera (a Glock) looks exactly like the one Steven posted in his last post.
Emil, wondering if you could post some photos of the grundglass back and its design. While I have the right holder for my camera, it's missing the drop-in groundglass back. I want to recreate this part to get the camera back to work (it's otherwise in fine shape).

[Emil Schildt]

The holder for my camera (a Glock) looks exactly like the one Steven posted in his last post.
Emil, wondering if you could post some photos of the grundglass back and its design. While I have the right holder for my camera, it's missing the drop-in groundglass back. I want to recreate this part to get the camera back to work (it's otherwise in fine shape).

of course - as soon as my brother can make some snaps..

[Emil Schildt]

Still no mention as to what Glass lives on that beast?

a little news on the lens:

according to my twin, the lens reads:

Suter Basel

Rapid Aplanat nr 3

serial nr 8722

Steven, you were so close....

pictures later.

[Steven Tribe]

This is an early one before Suter adopted the Aplanat A and Aplanat B code.
Unlike many, Suter's Rapid aplanat, was a real fast version which was later called the Aplanat A.
I can't image that this covers 24x30cm!

[Emil Schildt]

This is an early one before Suter adopted the Aplanat A and Aplanat B code.
Unlike many, Suter's Rapid aplanat, was a real fast version which was later called the Aplanat A.
I can't image that this covers 24x30cm!

but apparently it does... according to my twin - image looks good all around the GG.

(can't be sure before checking my self..)

[Emil Schildt]

here's two snaps of the lens

My brother mesured (guestimated) the FL at 40+/- cm and the aperture to 6 - 6.5....

[eddie]

This is an early one before Suter adopted the Aplanat A and Aplanat B code.
Unlike many, Suter's Rapid aplanat, was a real fast version which was later called the Aplanat A.
I can't image that this covers 24x30cm!

not sure about steven,

i have one here serial number 2421 that says aplanat b. i have had several in that serial number range.

[Steven Tribe]

I am inclined to agree with you Eddie.

[Louis Pacilla]

here's two snaps of the lens

My brother mesured (guestimated) the FL at 40+/- cm and the aperture to 6 - 6.5....

Really? 40cm for a #3 A.

I have a 3a # 9891 & it's around 10" f6 ish.

Certainly not meant to cover 24x30cm. At least mine would be to short for a plate that size. Maybe the 3b would because it starts out at f8 & probably has a bit more coverage than the 3a .

[Steven Tribe]

I think there must have been the Extra Rapid aplanat, A aplanat and B aplanat on offer from Suter at the same time. So the coverage of the Extra Rapid would be nearer the B series.
But I thought, to be honest, that Suter followed the tradition with:
size 1 = 9x12cm, size 2 = 13x18cm, size 3 = 18x24cm, size 4 = 24x30cm etc?

[Louis Pacilla]

I really shouldn't comment on the coverage . I was just curious about the FL Emils twin gave. 40cm just seems to long for #3 either series A or B series.

[Steven Tribe]

My A size 4 is just over 40cm.
Perhaps A and B's introduction saw the start of new implied coverage ( and focal lengths) for the different size numbers.

[Emil Schildt]

I really shouldn't comment on the coverage . I was just curious about the FL Emils twin gave. 40cm just seems to long for #3 either series A or B series.

well - that's the problem when you (I) is not next to the lens.....:rolleyes:

gotts go take a look at the lens it self....

[Steve M Hostetter]

make an sleeve for a regular 8x10" holder to fit in

at least till you can have a 12x12" film holder made

[Emil Schildt]

make an sleeve for a regular 8x10" holder to fit in

at least till you can have a 12x12" film holder made

yes - that could be an idea...

[Steven Tribe]

This is the exactly the modernisation that someone did to his big studio/reisekamera. The size has gone down to 5x7" I think. The two long slots, top and bottom, automatically make a "sliding back" design.

[cyberjunkie]

Hey, Gandolfi, i got bitten by the same bug:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=76881
:)

I see that you have the same problem: the plate holders are made for square plates.
The back of my camera is not repositionable (for vertical pictures), probably because it was originally meant for square plates.
The aperture on the back of my camera is a little short of 34cm, so it won't hold an 11x14" back, just 10x12" or 8x10".
I highly doubt that i could find an 10x12" back for a decent price, so next-best would be an 8x10" or 24x30cm back. The 24x30cm should come with a few film holders, cause i have none of them at home (never used that format).
To say the truth, the only back that doesn't belong to a working camera is a gray 5x7" sliding back for Ansco View 8x10.
Did you already decide what to do?

cheers

CJ

[Emil Schildt]

hi CJ

as you might have read in your thread (Stevens comment), the cassettes are square, but the inside isn't... so you can turn the begative for landscape format if you will...

I am in a negotiation about getting a holder for my camera - will let you know if it is a success...

Congrats on your buy.
I am highly jealoux about that soft focus lens!....

[cyberjunkie]

hi CJ

as you might have read in your thread (Stevens comment), the cassettes are square, but the inside isn't... so you can turn the begative for landscape format if you will...


It's not totally true, at least for my holders.
With NO adapters, it holds a square plate.
Then there are two adapters, one inside the other, that can be positioned in horizontal or vertical position. The bigger adapter is for 10x15cm plates, the smaller should be for 6.5x9cm (there is a small metal holder that allows to use film instead of glass plate).

I guess that it should be possible (but not so easy) to find compatible plate/film holders in 13x18cm or 18x24cm size.
To use bigger sizes you should either find/build another back, or unscrew the sliding carriage from the base, and fit a bigger non-sliding ground glass assembly in its place.
If i have to do that, a standard (international) one would be the logical choice.
At this point, i guess that it would be worth re-making the "base" of the back, and leave the original one as is.
As far as i understand, two choices are given:
1) fit a thick frame on the "base", that would allow to leave the transplanted back untouched, and secure it with the springs used in Deardorff/B&J/Eastman cameras
2) make the "base" repositionable, with two sets of attachment grooves, and glue the ground glass assembly to it

I get that you are following a philological route :)
which holder size did you find?

If some of my glass plates are compatible with your holders, feel free to ask.
I don't have them here, cause the photographic stuff have almost filled the house were i live... i'll check their size soon, though.

cheers

CJ

[Steven Tribe]

The original inserts (18x24cm) have been lost of thrown away. It is typical that studio cameras were converted to smaller formats as the economy went down the drain everywhere in the 20's and 30's. At least in the average sized town.