View Full Version : Kardan Master GTL, Cambo Master, Horseman LX which one..?
I am interested in table top product photography and looking for a decent 2nd hand gear for this purpose. It will be fixed on a T stand and will not be leaving the room. Hence weight is not a big concern but stability along with the cost, of course. Yaw free movement is a must and i prefer geared shift/tilts/swings. Any experiences? Which one or what else would you recommend..?
B.S.Kumar
22-Jun-2011, 16:18
Sinar P, P2 or X?
Kumar
Do Sinars support base and axial tilts?
Frank Petronio
22-Jun-2011, 23:33
Sinars are base tilts.
Looking into Sinars P2 and X; i understand they have both a base tilt mechanism (to eliminate yaw when the rail is inclined) plus an asymmetrical axial tilt mechanism above the base tilt. Am i right?
What is the benefit of this asymetrical axial tilt compared to axial tilt? I think lens tilts around an horizontal axis which is somewhat lover than the lenses center.
Frank Petronio
23-Jun-2011, 05:05
OK it does not have simple base tilts, it has the asymmetrical axial tilt mechanism (only).
All to the end of making yaw free movements for situations where there is a tilt and swing required.
Occasionally these are useful benefits in certain set-ups. I never found them to be that important in practice.
They might be more important in table top/product photography.
If stability is the key concern, you can't go wrong with a Sinar or Linhof.
To answer my own question... i have made a little research and came to a conclusion that Sinars or Arcas with micrometric tilt or orbix (whatsoever) respectively are limited cameras for table top work when compared to a Horseman LX, Cambo Master or Linhof Kardan Master GTL (what a name..!) Having said that Sinars and Arca are more portable cameras in return. If my camera would live all it's life in the studio on top of a stand, Sinar wouldn't be my first choice but Kardan Master GTL. Reason (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=743383&postcount=31).
BTW Sinar's happen to have two tilt mechanism one on top of the other.
Bob Salomon
23-Jun-2011, 14:14
To answer my own question... i have made a little research and came to a conclusion that Sinars or Arcas with micrometric tilt or orbix (whatsoever) respectively are limited cameras for table top work when compared to a Horseman LX, Cambo Master or Linhof Kardan Master GTL (what a name..!) Having said that Sinars and Arca are more portable cameras in return. If my camera would live all it's life in the studio on top of a stand, Sinar wouldn't be my first choice but Kardan Master GTL. Reason (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=743383&postcount=31).
BTW Sinar's happen to have two tilt mechanism one on top of the other.
Linhof Kardan Master GTL (what a name..!)
The full name is the Linhof Kardan Master GTL AMS. AMS is the depth of field computer that runs across the base of the rear standard.
And it also has two tilt sytems. Virtually all cameras that are yaw free when used upright are yaw free.
Any camera that is yaw prone becomes yaw free when tilted 90° so what was the swing control becomes the tilt control in that position. That fullfills the requirement that the tilt point be beneath the swing point. The Linhof TK system cameras have an extra bubble level on them for use when the camera is tilted over to be yaw free.
Except for base tilt cameras the yaw-free feature is not all that important. It becomes slightly more important with base tilt cameras as the image shifts more on the GG.
In the end it is impossible to tell from the image if the camera was yaw free or yaw prone. If it had base or axis or assymetrical axis movements. The end results are identical. Just pick the camera whose features and controls you prefer.
Lachlan 717
23-Jun-2011, 14:30
Get the cheapest one.
Seriously, though, I have only used the Horseman from your list and found it a wonderful camera to use. It was a tough thing to sell (sold it to get a field camera). Really good geared movements.
One thing to consider is the availability of accessories. Keep in mind that many Sinar accessories fit directly onto the Horseman (eg. bellows, boards and shutters).
Peter De Smidt
23-Jun-2011, 21:43
I haven't used Linhof monorails, and so I can't comment on them. In the studio, though, Sinar Ps and P2s are wonderful cameras, with lots of reasonably priced used accessories available, and the cameras aren't all that expensive any more. Horseman's are pretty good, and perfectly usable, but not at the same level as the Sinar. Arca Fs are great field cameras, but not as pleasant in the studio as the Sinar. Neither is the Arca M.
Peter, Don't you think ability to tilt only +/- 20 degrees is a limitation in a studio camera?
Bob Salomon
24-Jun-2011, 12:19
Peter, Don't you think ability to tilt only +/- 20 degrees is a limitation in a studio camera?
The amount of tilt or swing that you can actually do is limited by the bellows.
Bob,
You are right when Linhof Master Kardan GTL, Cambo Master, Cambo Legend PC or Horseman LX are concerned but... In Sinar's case bellows got nothing to do with it; it is limited with the micrometric tilt drive by +/- 20 degrees.
Frank Petronio
24-Jun-2011, 13:55
Well if you tilt the front 20 degrees and the rear 20 degrees you will exceed any possible situation so what is the point?
except for an object flat on a table... a.k.a. at yaw free (coarse tilts at vertical position) in total 45 degrees micrometric tilt to cover (front and back) if i am not wrong... "not possible"
I'm a user of a Linhof Kardan Master TL, the model before the GTL (but i've worked with the GTL too).
The Linhof is a very solid and precise instrument. It's mainly built of metal and because of this - pretty heavy :)
The movements of this system are really large...i've never reached the limit of the camera.
If you need such large movements, i would rather worry about the lenses.
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